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pionear 02/23/24 11:03:19 AM #1: |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/02/15/barbara-lee-minimum-wage/72611446007/
do you agree? (Poll Question) ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Muscles 02/23/24 11:09:56 AM #2: |
They need to have it rise with inflation
--- Muscles Chicago Bears | Chicago Blackhawks | Chicago Bulls | Chicago Cubs | NIU Huskies ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Jen0125 02/23/24 11:30:14 AM #3: |
should be higher than $7.25 that's for fucking sure ... Copied to Clipboard!
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C0RNISHACID 02/23/24 11:42:43 AM #4: |
Jen0125 posted...
should be higher than $7.25 that's for fucking sure --- his name is duff mcwhalen ... Copied to Clipboard!
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pionear 02/23/24 11:55:49 AM #5: |
Jen0125 posted... should be higher than $7.25 that's for fucking sure Damn that's still the Federal rate? Been $15/Hr for awhile here in NYC... ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Jen0125 02/23/24 11:58:25 AM #6: |
pionear posted... Damn that's still the Federal rate? Been $15/Hr for awhile here in NYC... Yes that's been the federal rate since like 2007 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Devil_May_Cry 02/23/24 12:02:32 PM #7: |
pionear posted... Damn that's still the Federal rate? Been $15/Hr for awhile here in NYC...Isnt it super expensive to live in NYC though? So 15$ an hour might be even worse there than 7.25 in some places? Anyways you have to uproot capitalism and replace the system with socialism or communism because under capitalism they treat those at the bottom like shit ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Entity13 02/23/24 12:43:51 PM #8: |
We've been fighting for 15 for so long, it should be 23 by now, on the federal level. By the time we get done fighting for 50, the USD will have gone the way of Germany's currency post WWI.
--- http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb179/EntityXIII/entityfn7.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/23/24 1:18:48 PM #9: |
$50? Little high.
Probably $20 is the right number right now. But minimum wage causes inflation to rise even faster. So it's a tricky balance. Basically our economy only works as long as half are suffering in poverty. I suppose you could tax the mega rich so hard that they earn the same as everyone else, but that has different problems then. So maybe the quick solution, if you openly support dictators, your taxes are raised to 99.99999%. Call it the treason tax. So only Musk, Trump, etc have to pay it basically. And we end poverty overnight --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Dikitain 02/23/24 2:24:04 PM #10: |
Does that mean that everyones wages across the board get increased by 690% to compensate (Like is supposed to happen when minimum wage is increased)?
If so, then hell yea!!! --- My bookshelf: https://www.goodreads.com/review/list/152760030 Comics: https://leagueofcomicgeeks.com/profile/dikitain ... Copied to Clipboard!
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teddy241 02/23/24 3:01:51 PM #11: |
I love watching the greater disparity in wealth between the rich and poor. All these minimum wage increases do is bring down the people who were making slightly more into now poverty levels. Meanwhile the rich just get richer and the poor population continues to grow ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/23/24 3:17:07 PM #12: |
As a concept, a flat minimum wage will never work. It'll inevitably fall behind inflation, stagnating until the gap becomes severe enough to generate enough political will to fix it, by which point the economy has come to depend so extensively on poverty wages that fixing it is deeply disruptive and gives more ammunition to opponents of future increases.
Instead, it needs to be a sliding scale based on the regional cost of living: the minimum wage for a given position must be high enough that working for 40 hours a week pays as much as median rent for a 2-bedroom apartment (equivalent to paying 2x what's needed to pay for half of it, aiming for paying 3x what a sub-median apartment would cost) within a 30-minute walk of the workplace, or enough for a similar apartment within a 30-minute drive if you also cover the cost of owning and using a car. The benefits of that are twofold: you ensure that employees are able to afford to live, plus it automatically moderates the cost of living because jacking up prices to cover higher wages will prompt people to move somewhere cheaper and thereby force housing prices down. The exact numbers will obviously need tweaking, and the increase will initially cause many of the same problems that any minimum wage increase will, but codifying that sort of policy is what's needed to ensure that minimum wage laws serve their intended purpose in perpetuity instead of being a constant uphill battle. Toss in some re-zoning measures to add more mixed-use properties in neighbourhoods to make it easier for people to work and shop locally, and you've got a recipe for a self-regulating system that ensures everyone is able to afford to live. That, or just do UBI and abandon the idea of minimum wage altogether. That's probably simpler, though it still runs into the issue that living wages are not universal and there'd need to be some regional variation there (with some kind of checks to make sure people don't just move to expensive neighbourhoods so they get more UBI). SinisterSlay posted... So maybe the quick solution, if you openly support dictators, your taxes are raised to 99.99999%. Call it the treason tax. So only Musk, Trump, etc have to pay it basically. And we end poverty overnight Fun fact: If you took away 99.99999% of a billionaire's net worth, they'd still have $10k left. Musk and Bezos would still be millionaires. A billion dollars really is a ludicrous amount of money. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Metalsonic66 02/23/24 3:50:10 PM #13: |
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8b60a2a4.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/29ff7c92.jpg --- PSN/Steam ID: Metalsonic_69 Big bombs go kabang. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/23/24 4:16:34 PM #14: |
Metalsonic66 posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8b60a2a4.jpgNo more billionaires works for me. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lokarin 02/23/24 4:37:57 PM #15: |
> But minimum wage causes inflation to rise even faster. So it's a tricky balance.
Studies show that for every 10% the median wage goes up (not minimum wage, granted, this is median wage), the price of goods goes up 0.4% on average --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/23/24 4:38:45 PM #16: |
Indeed. The usual suspects lose their collective minds whenever the idea of a wealth cap is tossed around, but really, the only reason to want more than a billion dollars is if you're trying to exercise way more power than any one person should ever have anyway. If you want to watch numbers go up, go play Cookie Clicker or something and stop ruining the economy for everyone else.
--- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/23/24 4:50:35 PM #17: |
Lokarin posted...
> But minimum wage causes inflation to rise even faster. So it's a tricky balance.Some part of that seems wrong. We know inflation has caused all prices to double since 2012. Did anyones wage quadruple in these last 12 years? mine didn't. Based on the spending I see around me, I think I am just considered poor now. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lokarin 02/23/24 4:51:51 PM #18: |
SinisterSlay posted...
Some part of that seems wrong. that's because that's an increase in price of goods unrelated to wage increases. --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/23/24 4:52:09 PM #19: |
SinisterSlay posted...
Some part of that seems wrong. The causality doesn't go both ways. Increasing wages by 10% increases prices by 0.4%. Increasing prices by 0.4% doesn't necessarily increase wages by 10%. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/23/24 4:54:09 PM #20: |
Lokarin posted...
that's because that's an increase in price of goods unrelated to wage increases.Then how did they measure this study? They somehow removed inflation from calculating inflation? Inflation is literally "people have too much money". I feel so poor not having this problem. --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lokarin 02/23/24 5:02:20 PM #21: |
SinisterSlay posted...
Then how did they measure this study? They somehow removed inflation from calculating inflation? nah, to economists inflation has a distinct meaning and is related to production flow and such --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NeoSioType 02/23/24 5:27:14 PM #22: |
The Zimbabwe's reserve is looking at gold backed currency. You think they need a little visit from Freedom? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Zareth 02/23/24 7:05:42 PM #23: |
When your average billionaire dies, nothing of value is lost. They themselves contribute nothing to society, they just own things that do.
--- What would Bligh do? ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ChronoXGP 02/23/24 7:23:35 PM #24: |
it should be like 30 per hour in the city and 15 per hour in places with less people, like small towns etc ... Copied to Clipboard!
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fishy071 02/24/24 12:45:32 AM #25: |
It should be more.
--- "You don't need a reason to help people." -Zidane Tribal of Final Fantasy IX ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Count_Drachma 02/24/24 2:26:48 AM #26: |
$50? Just make it $300/hour! That'd solve everything!
adjl posted... As a concept, a flat minimum wage will never work. It'll inevitably fall behind inflation, More or less, especially since it has a role in driving inflation. And, as you mentioned, regionality is a huge thing. A $20 minimum wage in some areas would kill the region. Plus, minimum wage is generally a band-aid on broader societal issues, which continue to fester, while exacerbating other social issues. adjl posted... That, or just do UBI and abandon the idea of minimum wage altogether. That's probably simpler, though it still runs into the issue that living wages are not universal and there'd need to be some regional variation there (with some kind of checks to make sure people don't just move to expensive neighbourhoods so they get more UBI). The only problem with that plan is UBI doesn't work. Well, not as a replacement, anyway. The UBI pitch has been "Do this in lieu of everything else!" when in fact you'd still likely have some version of Section 8, some version of Medicaid, some version of SNAP, etc, supplementing it. That and we aren't in a post-labor society where UBI could function. adjl posted... Fun fact: If you took away 99.99999% of a billionaire's net worth, they'd still have $10k left. Musk and Bezos would still be millionaires. A billion dollars really is a ludicrous amount of money. Except net worth isn't billions of dollars that they have, it's holdings in companies where the valuation of the company's shares is volatile. While "okay, you're successful, we want to take a good chunk of your money" is questionable, suggesting "okay, you're successful, we want to take over your company" is straight-up Soviet. --- Everybody's got a price / Everybody's got to pay / Because the Million Drachma Man / Always gets his way. AhahahahMMH ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Lokarin 02/24/24 2:30:17 AM #27: |
Count_Drachma posted...
The only problem with that plan is UBI doesn't work. Well, not as a replacement, anyway. The UBI pitch has been "Do this in lieu of everything else!" when in fact you'd still likely have some version of Section 8, some version of Medicaid, some version of SNAP, etc, supplementing it. https://www.givedirectly.org/2023-ubi-results/ They did an experiment with approx. $500 UBI... the savings on infrastructure and reduction in health spending created a situation where the the government actually SAVED money doing the UBI. --- "Salt cures Everything!" My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Nirakolov/videos ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GGuirao13 02/24/24 2:48:51 AM #28: |
Hell yes!
--- Donald J. Trump--proof against government intelligence. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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adjl 02/24/24 8:57:09 AM #29: |
Count_Drachma posted...
That and we aren't in a post-labor society where UBI could function. Virtually every UBI/minimum income experiment conducted has been successful in that it shows overall improvement in pretty much every regard, but sure, keep repeating that dogmatic mantra like it means something. Count_Drachma posted... Except net worth isn't billions of dollars that they have, it's holdings in companies where the valuation of the company's shares is volatile. Which can be liquidated. I'm not sure why you insist on conflating "net worth isn't just a big bucket of money" (which is true) with "net worth can't be compared to liquid assets in any way." Trying to downplay the wealth of the world's wealthiest people is a really weird hobby. Count_Drachma posted... While "okay, you're successful, we want to take a good chunk of your money" is questionable, suggesting "okay, you're successful, we want to take over your company" is straight-up Soviet. It doesn't have to mean the government taking over the company. Just that if a company becomes successful enough that a shareholder becomes a billionaire, that shareholder needs to sell off shares (and spend the proceeds) or otherwise reduce the value of the company until their net worth drops below that threshold. That can take the form of passing the reins to somebody else, profit sharing within the company, choosing not to expand further once the company has reached the threshold... All of it works out to avoid leaving too much power in the hands of any one individual or company, which is the goal. If the individual doesn't drop their net worth by the required amount within whatever time frame is defined (like if your net worth breaks $1 billion, you have two months to reduce it), that's when the government can step in and tax the excess by forcing the sale of shares/claiming liquid assets. Also, I'm not sure which version of history you're reading in which Soviet citizens were allowed to freely gain wealth up to a point where it was beyond question that they could live out the rest of their lives in absolute luxury and never want for anything before the government would collect anything in excess of that, but I imagine most actual Soviet citizens would prefer to live in that reality instead of the one they got. --- This is my signature. It exists to keep people from skipping the last line of my posts. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Revelation34 02/24/24 9:08:43 AM #30: |
SinisterSlay posted...
$50? Little high. Minimum wage doesn't cause inflation to rise. Greedy assholes do. --- Gamertag: Kegfarms, BF code: 2033480226, Treasure Cruise code 318,374,355, Steam: Kegfarms, Switch: SW-1900-5502-7912 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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SinisterSlay 02/24/24 10:48:33 AM #31: |
Count_Drachma posted...
suggesting "okay, you're successful, we want to take over your company" is straight-up Soviet.Well Musk, Besos, Trump are all incredibly pro soviet so they'd love this idea I guess --- He who stumbles around in darkness with a stick is blind. But he who... sticks out in darkness... is... fluorescent! - Brother Silence Lose 50 experience ... Copied to Clipboard!
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