Current Events > I don't quite understand WHY flat earthers believe spherical earth is a conspira

(+) Yeah! (+)

cy.

Specifically, what is the end game of such a conspiracy?

I'm not asking what they believe in terms of the shape of the earth, or questioning their intelligence. I'm asking, what is the proposed conspiracy about?

With anti vaxxers they'll say it's about population control, human tracking via nanochips, etc etc. I get that one.

With false flag conspiracy theorists they'll say it's about enforcing gun control so that we have a weakened militia. Ok, I understand that too.

But flat earth....why? Why would the government launch the most ambitious and logistically complex conspiracy of all time, just to fool you about...the shape of the planet?

I say this with no confirmation, but my gut instinct is that this conspiracy has fewer leaps to antisemitism than the others.

I believe the conspiracy is about controlling your mind and perception of reality. Like orwellian 2+2 = 5 stuff

The only thing they think is I look out the window and it looks flat and no other thought is ever processed

I wonder the same thing about climate change deniers.

Flat earther logic: "People believe the earth is round, but most people are also idiots, so by believing the earth is flat, I am actually super smart!"

I have a lot of free time at work and one of my coworkers is a conspiracy theorist, so I tend to watch YouTube videos to help me understand her thought process. Because right now, it's really hard for me to not instinctively tell her "NO! The fires in Maui weren't caused by a space laser and you should be ashamed for believing those videos that were proven to be fake!"

The main takeaway I got was that it stems from an extreme distrust of authority. The government tells them the world is round, so they take it to the other end of the spectrum to go flat Earth. Sadly they don't really get anything out of this, and in fact, it makes my coworker even worse mentally, because of things she falsely believes are happening around her.

At any rate, I liked the conspiracy videos from Above the Noise on YouTube. They're pretty quick and entertaining :3

The two big motives I've seen are to hide a landmass near Antarctica and as an attempt to discredit the Bible--a lot of flat earthers are into the idea of a firmament.

pegusus123456 posted...

I say this with no confirmation, but my gut instinct is that this conspiracy has fewer leaps to antisemitism than the others.

I listened to a podcast yesterday (called Behind the Bastards) of some people reading a Flat Earth book, and mocking it.
There was alot of talk about "The Jews" in it

Thompson posted...

Flat earther logic: "People believe the earth is round, but most people are also idiots, so by believing the earth is flat, I am actually super smart!"

I think that's a lot of it. Taking comfort from "knowing better" in a rapidly changing society that they really don't understand. Plus, the "no one's going to tell me what to think" attitude.

I think some of these conspiracies are just made to make the believers lives more exciting. They don't even consciously know it. But they are just coping with shitty lives by telling themselves these fantasy stories

The Globe = Satan

Thats why.

They're pretty vague on the why.

Flat Earth is one of those conspiracies that exist to make the believers feel more intelligent, special, and interesting.

YugiNoob posted...

I have a lot of free time at work and one of my coworkers is a conspiracy theorist, so I tend to watch YouTube videos to help me understand her thought process. Because right now, it's really hard for me to not instinctively tell her "NO! The fires in Maui weren't caused by a space laser and you should be ashamed for believing those videos that were proven to be fake!"

The main takeaway I got was that it stems from an extreme distrust of authority. The government tells them the world is round, so they take it to the other end of the spectrum to go flat Earth. Sadly they don't really get anything out of this, and in fact, it makes my coworker even worse mentally, because of things she falsely believes are happening around her.

At any rate, I liked the conspiracy videos from Above the Noise on YouTube. They're pretty quick and entertaining :3

Yeah, Dan Olsen has a good video on youtube about flat earth and in it he stresses that flat earthers are not people who believe one kooky thing but are otherwise accepting of mainstream ideas and institutions. They tend to be highly distrustful of authority and many are coming at it from an explicitly religious view and are highly distrustful of the scientific community. The important thing to flat earthers is the belief that "they are lying to us" and the actual thing that "they" are supposedly lying about is not as important.

In fact, halfway through the video Olsen talks about how the flat earth movement is not nearly as big as it used to be, but that's because a lot of those people went to QAnon. Then the rest of the video is talking about what QAnon is.

Short answer: Religion.

It's a Q eat Q world out there.

Flat earthers do just barf out "its all a conspiracy, the government have you indoctrinated and their playing you all like a piano", without putting any critical thinking into it at all.

First off, if it is just all a conspiracy by NASA and the US government, then all other governments and space stations through out the world would have to be in on it aswell.

Secondly, they gotta ask themselves the question "what benefit would the government get out of making the whole country believe that the earth is round, when its really flat?". A government is not going to try and make people believe something if they get nothing out of it at all.

Its a gateway conspiracy. People push it because they know if they can get people believing something stupid like that they can then pivot them to more nefarious conspiracies.

There are also some ultra traditional Christians who believe in the concept of the firmament as per the Old Testament.

They don't like our current science or something like that. If you want to know their pov, just read the actual flyer from the Flat Earth Society here (warning: stupid):
https://talkorigins.org/faqs/flatearth.html

Aim: To carefully observe, think freely rediscove forgotten fact and oppose theoretical dogmatic assumptions. To help establish the United States...of the the world on this flat earth. Replace the science religion...with SANITY

We maintain that what is called 'Science' today and 'scientists' consist of the same old gang of witch doctors, sorcerers, tellers of tales, the 'Priest-Entertainers' for the common people. 'Science' consists of a weird, way-out occult concoction of jibberish theory-theology...

Zetetic: from Zeto, to seek and search out; Prove, as contrasted to theoretic which means to guess, to hope, to suppose, but NOT to 'prove'. Science 'proves' earth a 'ball' by 'scripture' words. We PROVE earth Flat by experiment, demonstrated and demonstrable. Earth Flat is a Fact, not a 'theory'!

In 30AD JC said... seek and find the Truth and it will set you free. Free from the Pathological Liars...the great pretenders who mislead all flesh and blood.

Yup they actually said that ...sigh...

To the surprise of nobody they have no idea what theory means in a scientific context

oh man, talkorigins. wish i could remember the where and when of the last time i was in a creationism argument.

thisworld posted...

Science 'proves' earth a 'ball' by 'scripture' words. We PROVE earth Flat by experiment, demonstrated and demonstrable.

But....every Flat Earth experiment has failed, though

What about the time cube

I love that they call it the flat earth model.

Like adding the word "model" legitimises it, even though it can't predict anything, gives no consistent explanation for how anything works and has zero rigour to its experiments.

ROBANN_88 posted...

But....every Flat Earth experiment has failed, though

Nuh uh! If I put a ball on the ground it won't start rolling like it does when I put it on top of another ball!

"Also demonstrated Sun and Moon are about 3,000 miles away are both 32 miles across"

Man I almost want to pay for their newsletter to see what else they say lol

I hate this topic, because it's now made me seriously start thinking about something dumb as hell.

We all know floors and structures should be flat and level, correct? Are they actually just subtly curved, but we just accept they're 'flat' because a bubble and laser says so?

Thanks for putting that mostly irrelevant paranoia in my head.

solosnake posted...

I believe the conspiracy is about controlling your mind and perception of reality. Like orwellian 2+2 = 5 stuff

Yes this.

YugiNoob posted...

"Also demonstrated Sun and Moon are about 3,000 miles away are both 32 miles across"

got bored asked AI

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/ab5cff59.jpg

0.027 miles is about 141 feet. Now I know measuring by eye isn't a science or anything but I think that when I look up at the moon (or sun, if it's cloudy enough) it looks a lot smaller than 282 feet.

Purple_Cheetah posted...

I hate this topic, because it's now made me seriously start thinking about something dumb as hell.

We all know floors and structures should be flat and level, correct? Are they actually just subtly curved, but we just accept they're 'flat' because a bubble and laser says so?

Thanks for putting that mostly irrelevant paranoia in my head.

That's not how it works.... You build a flat foundation under a building. Buildings aren't curved.

Purple_Cheetah posted...

I hate this topic, because it's now made me seriously start thinking about something dumb as hell.

We all know floors and structures should be flat and level, correct? Are they actually just subtly curved, but we just accept they're 'flat' because a bubble and laser says so?

Thanks for putting that mostly irrelevant paranoia in my head.

Honestly yes. The Earth is big enough that such a minute curvature is not noticable over relatively short distances. There are also geographical things like hills and valleys that change things over short distances.

Robot2600 posted...

That's not how it works.... You build a flat foundation under a building. Buildings aren't curved.

An extremely large building like the great wall of China would have a slight curve to it.

Robot2600 posted...

That's not how it works.... You build a flat foundation under a building. Buildings aren't curved.

Yeah but, here's the thing. Since the earth is subtly curved, most buildings aren't long enough to perceptively see the curvature. The closest we'll really get is a bridge, or massive hangar/tunnel. Maybe a mall that's large enough.

A house or skyscraper is usually too short in width/depth to be noticable as he percentage it covers is tiny compared to the visible horizon.

Ok, good, I'm not having low sleep crack theories and just having a "remember that this is a thing". I've just never applied it to small scale, such as a living room or house.

Delusional narcissism drives a lot of it. They desperately want to believe they're a part of some super special in-group that only they "really" know what's going on. But I also think a combination of boredom and fear of the unknown adds fuel to their beliefs. They can't accept how chaotic and uncaring our universe is so they need to believe in some unseen power pulling all the strings be it God, illuminati or some other shadow organization.

YugiNoob posted...

"Also demonstrated Sun and Moon are about 3,000 miles away are both 32 miles across"

Can someone with a degree in physics tell us what happens when two equidistant circular objects 32 miles across come in contact with each other?
Because I'm sure it will be a lot more spectacular than a solar eclipse.

pegusus123456 posted...

I say this with no confirmation, but my gut instinct is that this conspiracy has fewer leaps to antisemitism than the others.

Unfortunately this

Also flat earthers are objectively more likely to never have left the basement because 0 of them have ever been on a plane.

iceman9820 posted...

Delusional narcissism drives a lot of it. They desperately want to believe they're a part of some super special in-group that only they "really" know what's going on. But I also think a combination of boredom and fear of the unknown adds fuel to their beliefs. They can't accept how chaotic and uncaring our universe is so they need to believe in some unseen power pulling all the strings be it God, illuminati or some other shadow organization.

Oh, yeah, this is a big part too. My coworker gets easily paranoid by the slightest things. For example, there might be an ad for strawberries and she'll be like "OMG I just ate strawberries last night! They must be spying on me!". Like she doesn't understand that sometimes things just... happen? That countless people also ate strawberries last night, and that she's not the center of the universe. EVERYTHING has to have some connection and meaning to her <_<

I'll never believe they're not trolls. No modern humans can be that stupid without severe brain damage or some type of developmental disorder.

LeoRavus posted...

I'll never believe they're not trolls. No modern humans can be that stupid without severe brain damage or some type of developmental disorder.

Some of them are doing it on religious grounds. Google the firmament.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/e56aeb5c.jpg

pegusus123456 posted...

I say this with no confirmation, but my gut instinct is that this conspiracy has fewer leaps to antisemitism than the others.

A ton of flat earthers are also all in on Qanon.

Tyranthraxus posted...

An extremely large building like the great wall of China would have a slight curve to it.

There is no way to tell though. There isn't much in the way of straight lines. It goes up and down hills

pinky0926 posted...

I love that they call it the flat earth model.

Like adding the word "model" legitimises it, even though it can't predict anything, gives no consistent explanation for how anything works and has zero rigour to its experiments.

It's the same as when they say "creation theory" or refer to atheism as a religion.

ooger posted...

A ton of flat earthers are also all in on Qanon.

Normally I'm not too big on non-vidya-game-related video essays, but the "In Search of a Flat Earth" is a fairly decent take on both of these things (if folks want an hour and a half of noise in the background). One of the sharpest turns I've ever seen a video take, but it works.

There are several explanations.

The simplest is just that we "can't see" how the earth curves, so it *must* be flat. This is commonly believed by people who heavily rely on their religious faith and falsely equate science with religion. I have met a couple of people like this. They don't believe things like our measurements of the sun and the moon because we "can't" measure it. "The moon could be just a dozen miles above our heads".

More complex answers tie the conspiracy theory in to other "theories", such as reptilians. People who believe in this stuff are more likely to be spiritual and maybe follow some eastern religions/schools but may not be into group/mass religion. This boils down to the idea that there's some greater species that is exploiting humanity for *some* nefarious purpose. That could be using us to harvest the earth's resources, or trapping our souls in the planet (or even in this dimension) and then feeding of the existential anxiety and fear from our spirits when we physically die.

From that last one you get conspiracies about things like wealthy elite grooming and exploiting children to harvest their energy so the elite can live longer. Although as we've seen in recent years that went from being a fringe conspiracy about everyone who has money and influence to becoming a nearly mainstream right-wing opinion about wealthy people on the left specifically.

But a good reference for these last two paragraphs is the movie Jupiter Ascending, which was a rather dull drawn out movie with bad CGI but it basically explores all these topics (the bad guys are even reptilians).

ThePieReborn posted...

Normally I'm not too big on non-vidya-game-related video essays, but the "In Search of a Flat Earth" is a fairly decent take on both of these things (if folks want an hour and a half of noise in the background). One of the sharpest turns I've ever seen a video take, but it works.

It is a great video.

https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44?si=ARO0kGxpVkaBCB4B

Hexenherz posted...

This boils down to the idea that there's some greater species that is exploiting humanity for *some* nefarious purpose.

It's an anti-semitic trope.

Oh yeah for sure. It's just a lot of people don't realize it's anti-semitic.

Fluttershy posted...

oh man, talkorigins. wish i could remember the where and when of the last time i was in a creationism argument.

Met one about 10 years ago. Polite, well-spoken and to her credit, reasonable. So much so I had a rather pleasant convo that day. If only every other nutjob out there could act like her.

Waidaminute! I take that back!!! With her conversational skill she could easily sway someone less educated. Not good lol

SHRlKE posted...

Some of them are doing it on religious grounds. Google the firmament.

Yeah this too. Generally speaking flat earthers have 3 different approaches:
(1) Because the Bible says so (divine revelation)
(2) Because they conspire to hide the truth (conspiracy)
(3) Because I can see it myself (naive empiricism)

source:
Disinformation and Echo Chambers: How Disinformation Circulates on Social Media Through Identity-Driven Controversies
https://doi.org/10.1177/07439156221103852

pegusus123456 posted...

I say this with no confirmation, but my gut instinct is that this conspiracy has fewer leaps to antisemitism than the others.

Nah any conspiracy that involves some secret shadowy group puppeteering everything behind the scenes comes back to antisemitism.