Current Events > Should Jails and Prisons Be Abolished?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is there anyone out there who seriously advocates for that? I feel like it has to be 100% a meme.

No, but there needs to be major reforms.

For-profit prisons need to cease existing immediately.

Ending cash bail will almost completely empty jails.

The entire industrial complex should be torn down and rebuilt from the ground up with some of its original definitions of penitentiary and reformatory, because that's the primary goal.

And you can still have prisons based on the needs of the few who can't be reformed or penitent. Because there's always going to be some of those. But you'll need so many fewer.

Nemu posted...

Is there anyone out there who seriously advocates for that? I feel like it has to be 100% a meme.

A lot of people in Bluesky are advocating for the abolishment of prisons and jails due to the cruelty it inflicts on the inhabitants being put in them.

End for-profit prisons.

Give prisoners humane conditions, free from the fear of violence.

End cash bail: if the accused is dangerous or a flight risk, jail them. If not, don't. A system based on the ability to pay, with sanctioned bounty hunters, is barbaric.

Up.

the current analysis shows that custodial sanctions have no effect on reoffending or slightly increase it when compared with the effects of noncustodial sanctions such as probation. This finding is robust regardless of variations in methodological rigor, types of sanctions examined, and sociodemographic characteristics of samples. All sophisticated assessments of the research have independently reached the same conclusion. The null effect of custodial compared with noncustodial sanctions is considered a criminological fact. Incarceration cannot be justified on the grounds it affords public safety by decreasing recidivism.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/715100

Humble_Novice posted...

A lot of people in Bluesky are advocating for the abolishment of prisons and jails due to the cruelty it inflicts on the inhabitants being put in them.

What are their suggestions for alternatives?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

This. From what i know that just means having more inmates is incentivized which i dont believe is good for society.

Also im not entirely sure about the different between Jail and Prison. I think one of them is before your trial yeah?

If so, then i still vote no, not every person needs to be imprisoned before trial, but for some nastier crimes and/or people who are a flight risk, i can see its use.

No, but the prison system needs to be reformed to end profit motives, end slavery and focus on rehabilitation instead of punishment so as to reduce recidivism.

ai123 posted...

End for-profit prisons.

Give prisoners humane conditions, free from the fear of violence.

End cash bail: if the accused is dangerous or a flight risk, jail them. If not, don't. A system based on the ability to pay, with sanctioned bounty hunters, is barbaric.

Came to say this.

Humble_Novice posted...

What should we do about jails and prisons? Do you think we should abolish them entirely?

you believe we should?

GeminiDeus posted...

What are their suggestions for alternatives?

Rehabilitation and therapy, from what I've been hearing so far. It's caused quite a stir between radical leftists who want to abolish the prison system entirely due to the corrupt police force and liberals who want a more moderate approach to isolate criminals who refuse to be rehabilitated.

I don't get the mindset of wanting to abolish prisons entirely. What's the safety solution there?

Get rid of private prisons, make prisons safer, and have better programs so that when a person is released they can be an active member of society.

Humble_Novice posted...

Rehabilitation and therapy, from what I've been hearing so far. It's caused quite a stir between radical leftists who want to abolish the prison system entirely due to the corrupt police force and liberals who want a more moderate approach to isolate criminals who refuse to be rehabilitated.

Well, I meant in terms of where they think criminals should be put instead. Like are they suggesting house arrest or something else?

Guide posted...

I don't get the mindset of wanting to abolish prisons entirely. What's the safety solution there?

yeah do a large percentage of americans really want this done? there are some really terrible people out there , though.

GeminiDeus posted...

Well, I meant in terms of where they think criminals should be put instead. Like are they suggesting house arrest or something else?

Many have suggested putting them in a more hospitable environment far away from the people they've negatively affected. That way, they can be safely isolated while receiving the rehabilitation they need to reintegrate back into society. As for those who've committed horrific crimes and refuse to be treated, I don't think I've seen much of a response concerning it since advocates think it's some kind of bad faith or gotcha question to smear prison abolishment.

Humble_Novice posted...

Many have suggested putting them in a more hospitable environment far away from the people they've negatively affected. That way, they can be safely isolated while receiving the rehabilitation they need to reintegrate back into society. As for those who've committed horrific crimes and refuse to be treated, I don't think I've seen much of a response concerning it since advocates think it's some kind of bad faith or gotcha question to smear prison abolishment.

yeah they really haven't give a good answer have they, the horrific crime ones who refuse to be treated.....it's like many, believe they don't exist. What is your personal opinion on this?

DoubleOSnake posted...

yeah they really haven't give a good answer have they, the horrific crime ones who refuse to be treated.....it's like many, believe they don't exist. What is your personal opinion on this?

Many of them believe that people are inherently good and that the current economic system is to blame for why crime and inequality exist. While I do agree that the system itself is flawed and leads to otherwise good folks resorting to illegal activities in order to survive, there are some people who are simply evil for the sake of it.

Humble_Novice posted...

Many have suggested putting them in a more hospitable environment far away from the people they've negatively affected. That way, they can be safely isolated while receiving the rehabilitation they need to reintegrate back into society. As for those who've committed horrific crimes and refuse to be treated, I don't think I've seen much of a response concerning it since advocates think it's some kind of bad faith or gotcha question to smear prison abolishment.

I'm sorry to make you the middle man with my questions, I'm not trying to cause any frustration, my mind is just coming up with scenarios for how things would play out, but wouldn't anywhere they're sent to need supervision and control, like a prison? Like, if a bunch of rapists and/or murderers were sent to somewhere, I don't think they'd be good on their own.

Humble_Novice posted...

Many of them believe that people are inherently good and that the current economic system is to blame for why crime and inequality exist. While I do agree that the system itself is flawed and leads to otherwise good folks resorting to illegal activities in order to survive, there are some people who are simply evil for the sake of it.

yeah. but the topic question . You do want them abolished? yeah some people who are simply evil simply for the sake of it....extremely sad and kinda disturbing....

Humble_Novice posted...

Many of them believe that people are inherently good

I would relish the chance to disabuse them of this notion.

GeminiDeus posted...

I'm sorry to make you the middle man with my questions, I'm not trying to cause any frustration, my mind is just coming up with scenarios for how things would play out, but wouldn't anywhere they're sent to need supervision and control, like a prison? Like, if a bunch of rapists and/or murderers were sent to somewhere, I don't think they'd be good on their own.

It also begs the question as to how that will need to be set up in terms of logistics. There would need to be a large amount of dedicated therapists and guards to help enact the rehabilitation process while in isolation.

DoubleOSnake posted...

yeah. but the topic question . You do want them abolished?

No, but I do agree with the other users about abolishing the corporatization of prisons and enacting changes that make it more tolerable to live in.

Guide posted...

I would relish the chance to disabuse them of this notion.

oh really you yourself believe that statement is completely false? Inherently good? Idk, i think those numbers might sadly be fewer than most would care to admit

Yeah, prisons need reforming so they're not just hell holes and private prisons with their slave labor should be abolished, but completely abolishing all of them is bleeding heart stuff. Prisons of some kind are sadly necessary. We need places to keep dangers to society. I don't think people like mass shooters, serial killers, and cartel members should just be getting house arrest and therapy.

Humble_Novice posted...

No, but I do agree with the other users about abolishing the corporatization of prisons and enacting changes that make it more tolerable to live in.

corporization of prisons? but already those are already a small minority of the ones in u.s. already right?

Southernfatman posted...

Yeah, prisons need reforming so they're not just hell holes and private prisons with their slave labor should be abolished, but completely abolishing all of them is bleeding heart stuff. Prisons of some kind are sadly necessary. We need places to keep dangers to society. I don't think people like mass shooters, serial killers, and cartel members should just be getting house arrest and therapy.

yeah but i remember reading that the u.s. has the highest number of people in prison than any country. even adjusted for per , number of total americans, it might be no. 1. Don't remember

We need them they just need to do a better job at rehabilitation.

A lot of people ITT are singling out "private" or "for-profit" prisons ITT, but this is a cop out. 92% of America's inmates are incarcerated in regular-ass, government run prisons. And these are the conditions they face:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/prisoners-in-the-us-are-part-of-a-hidden-workforce-linked-to-hundreds-of-popular-food-brands/ar-BB1hqC7d
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/19/rikers-island-abject-neglect-chaotic-conditions-deaths
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/11/louisiana-angola-prison-teens-conditions

It's like when right-wingers are careful to append "crony" before saying something about capitalism. You want credit for acknowledging the problem without actually recognizing what it is.

Intro2Logic posted...

A lot of people ITT are singling out "private" or "for-profit" prisons ITT, but this is a cop out. 92% of America's inmates are incarcerated in regular-ass, government run prisons. And these are the conditions they face:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/prisoners-in-the-us-are-part-of-a-hidden-workforce-linked-to-hundreds-of-popular-food-brands/ar-BB1hqC7d
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/19/rikers-island-abject-neglect-chaotic-conditions-deaths
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/sep/11/louisiana-angola-prison-teens-conditions

It's like when right-wingers are careful to append "crony" before saying something about capitalism. You want credit for acknowledging the problem without actually recognizing what it is.

yeah the for profit ones are a very small percentage. Why do many people like to overestimate their numbers...etc.....

They need to go back to being jails and prisons. You did the crime, now do the time.

jsb0714 posted...

They need to go back to being jails and prisons

Did they stop? Did I miss an announcement?

Unfortunately any time prison reformation gets brought up to politicians, we're always given two extreme options as if moderate options didn't exist.

SuperVegitoFAN posted...

Also im not entirely sure about the different between Jail and Prison. I think one of them is before your trial yeah?

Jails are a more local level than prisons. Generally each city or county has a jail facility for pre-trial detention but also for short term incarceration, generally six months to a year. These are located near or even in the city/county courthouse for convenience as inmates are more likely to have more frequent court appearances. They generally have little to no rehabilitation services and are merely secure containment.

Prisons are for those who have been sentenced to longer terms, above that six months to a year time frame. These are at the state or federal level since transfers to and from courthouses for court appearances are rare. This has the down side of often moving the inmates away from family and friends which makes visiting more difficult but allows for more long term services and, for lack of a better word, amenities. The facilities for long term mental health services, education, job training, etc. can be more economically provided to a larger, longer term prison population than to the smaller, more transient population of a jail.

I have mixed feeling on this subject. Ideally, i'd say yes they should be abolished. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.

On one hand, I find the idea of long prison sentences morally repugnant, moreso than execution. Death penalty has its own glaring problems. i'm in favor of letting prisoners facing a life sentence or death choose between them personally, but that's a separate issue. I don't think we should keep non-violent offenders locked up at all.

On the other hand, there's some pretty awful people who are actively a danger to society, and prison is a solution to that problem.

So ultimately I have to say no, but reformation of the prison system should definitely be on the table for discussion.

PMarth2002 posted...

I have mixed feeling on this subject. Ideally, i'd say yes they should be abolished. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.

On one hand, I find the idea of long prison sentences morally repugnant, moreso than execution. Death penalty has its own glaring problems. i'm in favor of letting prisoners facing a life sentence or death choose between them personally, but that's a separate issue. I don't think we should keep non-violent offenders locked up at all.

On the other hand, there's some pretty awful people who are actively a danger to society, and prison is a solution to that problem.

So ultimately I have to say no, but reformation of the prison system should definitely be on the table for discussion.

Agreed. We need to acknowledge that there are some people who just won't accept rehabilitation no matter what. Plus, it's hard to get victims of abuse to go along with some of the changes proposed by prison abolishment advocates.

PMarth2002 posted...

I have mixed feeling on this subject. Ideally, i'd say yes they should be abolished. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world.

On one hand, I find the idea of long prison sentences morally repugnant, moreso than execution. Death penalty has its own glaring problems. i'm in favor of letting prisoners facing a life sentence or death choose between them personally, but that's a separate issue. I don't think we should keep non-violent offenders locked up at all.

On the other hand, there's some pretty awful people who are actively a danger to society, and prison is a solution to that problem.

So ultimately I have to say no, but reformation of the prison system should definitely be on the table for discussion.

yeah because people who are constantly frauding/stealing from people and stealing identities arent as bad as some one who kills someone right?

fuck serial fraudsters/thieves belong in prison along with the violent offenders. Non violent crimes are just as bad.

drug dealers selling shit like meth and fentanyl, lock them up in prison too. Selling shit that causes people to od as often as fentanyl should be treated like murder.

people who doing drugs and nothing above? Release them theyre not hurting anyone but themselves.

DoubleOSnake posted...

oh really you yourself believe that statement is completely false? Inherently good? Idk, i think those numbers might sadly be fewer than most would care to admit

I think a majority of people have good intentions, actually. But it only takes a few bad people to ruin things for a lot of good people. I myself would probably be a lot worse if being traditionally good wasn't extremely convenient and beneficial for basically my entire life.

I dont think any serious people actually believe in completely abolishing prisons. Some people absolutely need to be kept away from the outside world.

Should we REFORM prisons though, yes. If youve committed a horrible crime, your punishment is being locked away, and having your freedom revoked. You should still be treated as a human, however.

We should "abolish" them in the sense that the ideal prisons would look nothing like the prisons there are now

no

Agree with all those saying end private, for profit prisons. They should be run by the state. The focus should be rehabilitation of all those that can be and helping them do better in society once they get out.