Current Events > Do you think that joining the military is not as great a proposition as it used

(+) Yeah! (+)

to be years ago? Yeah i mean like for an 18 year old right out of high school. Haven't read much about this stuff, like what kind of benefits they offer compared to in yrs past. Doesn't apply to me personally though

"Kill people and risk dying a horrible death in exchange for things other developed countries will give you freely" was never an appealing deal.

Military recruiters don't show up in rich schools.

Umbreon posted...

"Kill people and risk dying a horrible death in exchange for things other developed countries will give you freely" was never an appealing deal.

Military recruiters don't show up in rich schools.

They tried to recruit my son. Were in a very high income area.

The military is a good option for some, and I wish more people would consider it. My husband is trying to get our daughter to consider it. She wants to be an aerospace engineer, and it would be a good path. (Hes a Navy officer.)

Umbreon posted...

"Kill people and risk dying a horrible death in exchange for things other developed countries will give you freely" was never an appealing deal.

Military recruiters don't show up in rich schools.

yeah i have heard that said a lot as well. Like how an incredibly small percentage of the guys who fought in the vietnam war were from privileged backgrounds. Possibly the percentage of that might have been higher in ww2. Like the percentage who weren't poor.......

Umbreon posted...

"Kill people and risk dying a horrible death in exchange for things other developed countries will give you freely" was never an appealing deal.

Military recruiters don't show up in rich schools.

Don't do grunt work. Get behind a desk.

Umbreon posted...

"Kill people and risk dying a horrible death in exchange for things other developed countries will give you freely" was never an appealing deal.

Military recruiters don't show up in rich schools.

I've been at a desk all my career, got to do some traveling to Europe and that was like the most dangerous thing I've ever done.

Hasn't been exciting but has been stable.

Anyway I guess mileage may vary. I am in a very progressive community (where same-sex relationships were totally fine before DADT was ever officially repealed), but I have met my fair share of idiots from other communities that tend to be the stereotypical dumb grunt.

why should they go out to fight
they leave that all to the poor

They will probably start incentivizing more in the coming years.

There were signing bonuses back then right?

Sign, commit to 4yrs in military service, complete contract honorably. That was it.

Someone told me this past week that they raised the age of eligible for military to 42 yrs old now. Hmm

It's never worth it.

There's bigger sign-on bonuses now and you can't beat the GI bill if you want to go to university. If you can get accepted, you can attend and ivy league school and get paid for it. You can get a lot of classes done in the military or even get an entire bachelors and then have the GI bill pay for your masters or doctorate. Imagine becoming an MD with zero student loan debt.

It's not that bad depending on what job you do. It has some suck but you can live a pretty normal life, work out a lot and get paid to live in a lot of pretty unique places. I had an amazing apartment on the beach in North Carolina when I was stationed there, all paid for by BAH. I didn't want to do it for a career but my five years went by fast.

HBOSS posted...

Someone told me this past week that they raised the age of eligible for military to 42 yrs old now. Hmm

If this truly applies to desk work then...

At this point that's a bit of a thinker too.

You should really only join if you have a good reason.

And "I can't do anything else" is not a good reason. There's plenty of those in the military.

Umbreon posted...

other developed countries will give you freely

I always hear this but I've never seen any details. I'm not saying being a grunt is worth it, but where do I go for decent free food, decent free housing, and a livable wage?

Guide posted...

I always hear this but I've never seen any details. I'm not saying being a grunt is worth it, but where do I go for decent free food, decent free housing, and a livable wage?

he prob means in other developed countries

There are definitely still signing bonuses, even more than before - I've seen bonuses for shipping out right after high school, bonuses for joining with a degree, and of course there are bonuses for enlisting into specific jobs.

Besides the Tuition Assistance, free CLEP testing, and GI Bill benefits, fact that you get college credits for career milestones and certain training courses, there are increasing opportunities for higher education learning. For instance, the Navy just recently rolled out the Navy Community College which allows Sailors to get Associate's in certain fields. People from certain career fields can get Bachelor's or even Master's degrees from the National Intelligence University. The Naval Postgraduate School has opened up a cyber-related Master's program for specific career fields, too. There are also Academy seats to fill, enlisted-to-officer ROTC-style programs where you get your regular base pay and housing allowance plus get your education paid for, and some specific career-field related commissioning programs for people who want to become Nurses or lawyers.

Besides college education, you can also register into an apprenticeship program for free to earn your apprentice/journeyman qualification in a certain field, and free credentialing and professional certifications in everything from management to education to cyber security.

I probably didn't need to type all of this up but I am procrastinating hard on my own college and figured why not >_>

edit: Also they just expanded parental leave - now you get 12 weeks for a qualifying new child event (could be childbirth, adoption, etc.). Doesn't necessarily mean you'll get all 12 weeks off at once, but you are entitled to 12 weeks total. And they are starting to pay for people to travel out of area to get specialty parental planning care, including IFV and stuff like that.

Hexenherz posted...

There are definitely still signing bonuses, even more than before - I've seen bonuses for shipping out right after high school, bonuses for joining with a degree, and of course there are bonuses for enlisting into specific jobs.

Besides the Tuition Assistance, free CLEP testing, and GI Bill benefits, fact that you get college credits for career milestones and certain training courses, there are increasing opportunities for higher education learning. For instance, the Navy just recently rolled out the Navy Community College which allows Sailors to get Associate's in certain fields. People from certain career fields can get Bachelor's or even Master's degrees from the National Intelligence University. The Naval Postgraduate School has opened up a cyber-related Master's program for specific career fields, too. There are also Academy seats to fill, enlisted-to-officer ROTC-style programs where you get your regular base pay and housing allowance plus get your education paid for, and some specific career-field related commissioning programs for people who want to become Nurses or lawyers.

Besides college education, you can also register into an apprenticeship program for free to earn your apprentice/journeyman qualification in a certain field, and free credentialing and professional certifications in everything from management to education to cyber security.

I probably didn't need to type all of this up but I am procrastinating hard on my own college and figured why not >_>

what? you might join the military?

Smallville posted...

he prob means in other developed countries

Yes, I'm asking what country gives you the equivalent of the army stuff, but for free.

Smallville posted...

what? you might join the military?

I am already in.

ie the best time for you to join is now since it reduces the chance you're gonna be fighting in ww3

Cruciferous posted...

ie the best time for you to join is now since it reduces the chance you're gonna be fighting in ww3

how so?

Guide posted...

I always hear this but I've never seen any details. I'm not saying being a grunt is worth it, but where do I go for decent free food, decent free housing, and a livable wage?

The price you pay for living with the military far exceeds free food, housing and a "livable wage" there's a reason why a large portion of vets are homeless. Ptsd is nothing to fuck with.

Ragtag28 posted...

The price you pay for living with the military far exceeds free food, housing and a "livable wage" there's a reason why a large portion of vets are homeless. Ptsd is nothing to fuck with.

I'm not trying to make a point for the army, this is specifically about the "other countries give that for free" thing.

Guide posted...

I'm not trying to make a point for the army, this is specifically about the "other countries give that for free" thing.

The key point there is that other countries pay living wages, access to free medical care, better leave benefits, better opportunities for work-life balance, access to cheaper higher education, etc. that you won't find with private employers in the US.

I'm looking at a Master's from a top 100 university in Sweden that will cost a whopping $25,000. That's like half the cost of what it would be in the US on average.

Hexenherz posted...

The key point there is that other countries pay living wages, access to free medical care, better leave benefits, better opportunities for work-life balance, access to cheaper higher education, etc. that you won't find with private employers in the US.

I'm looking at a Master's from a top 100 university in Sweden that will cost a whopping $25,000. That's like half the cost of what it would be in the US on average.

Everything I know about debt tells me that's closer to 1/10 than 1/2. Christ almighty.

You do good on your ASVAB test, they will come to you with the big jobs...

Joining up now is at least a good backup plan for those who are not doing well economically...

oh how you do on that test is huge, for the military? maybe many times more important than the sat for college? It's like an i.q. test?

It depends on what you expect to get out of it.

I did my time in the Marine Corps. A lot of good times and a lot of shitty times, but Id do it all over again.

Smallville posted...

oh how you do on that test is huge, for the military? maybe many times more important than the sat for college? It's like an i.q. test?

more or less, if you bomb it (which is common for high schoolers) you can still join but youre doing low end work (my bro deliberately did as bad as he could, and he had to join since he had no academic achievement at all with his scores he cooked food for six years). If you get in the 50% or above scorewise, the recruiters come to you. I had the marines visit me at school...

Now even in my 30s, its a viable career option that may be a way forward...

invertedlegdrop posted...

more or less, if you bomb it (which is common for high schoolers) you can still join but youre doing low end work (my bro deliberately did as bad as he could, and he had to join since he had no academic achievement at all with his scores he cooked food for six years). If you get in the 50% or above scorewise, the recruiters come to you. I had the marines visit me at school...

Now even in my 30s, its a viable career option that may be a way forward...

really ? join in your 30s? so to be a fighter pilot you must score very very high?

I mean, I don't think "most high schoolers" bomb it. IIRC it was written based on material you are expected to have been exposed to by 10th grade... It features multiple sections, such as individual word knowledge, paragraph comprehension, basic sciences (physical and biology), a couple of math sections, automotives and mechanics, and there is or was one logic portion. There are additional tests if you want to get into linguistics or cyber fields.

If you want to be an airplane pilot of any kind you must have a Bachelor's degree and you must take a different test, not the ASVAB. ASVAB is for people who are enlisting specifically.

Hexenherz posted...

I mean, I don't think "most high schoolers" bomb it. IIRC it was written based on material you are expected to have been exposed to by 10th grade... It features multiple sections, such as individual word knowledge, paragraph comprehension, basic sciences (physical and biology), a couple of math sections, automotives and mechanics, and there is or was one logic portion. There are additional tests if you want to get into linguistics or cyber fields.

If you want to be an airplane pilot of any kind you must have a Bachelor's degree and you must take a different test, not the ASVAB. ASVAB is for people who are enlisting specifically.

personally a lot of my buddies struggled with the electrical portion of the asvab when they took it

because school never taught us that shit

Smallville posted...

really ? join in your 30s? so to be a fighter pilot you must score very very high?

Yeah, used to be you could enlist til 35 but they upped it to 40 as long as you can put in 20 years before the age of 60 (if you want to retire in the military)...

I have no interest in combat so the Air Force or Coast Guard suit me fine and i would do support programs. This isn't Vietnam anymore where they just you send right out of basic into a warzone, if you want to do that you got to go into that line on your own choosing...

Cruciferous posted...

personally a lot of my buddies struggled with the electrical portion of the asvab when they took it

because school never taught us that shit

to put a point of that, most kids in high school aren't taught squat unless it goes towards those bull**** SATs that the states only care about...so it's pretty easy to see entire classes do poorly on the basic knowledge or tech portions of the ASVABs...

I knew kids who made single digit scores, even idiots can usually get in the 10-20 range with no prep, but to score in the single digits you have to be a true dumb son of a ***** or you just didn't try...

Yeah I didn't do great on the mechanical or electrical portions myself but that ultimately didn't make a difference for the job that I wanted to get.

Time was you used to fight for your country, now, you're just fighting for some faceless billionaire who wants to increase their profit margins.

The only people I know my age that own their house (that weren't born rich at least) are ex-pats. Feel like "do you want to actually own a house?" is a selling point, albeit super bleak.

It's pretty good depending on where you go. I was talking to a some random guy in the Air Force last night. He gets college paid for and does some engineering job there. It does sound like a pretty sweet gig. You just gotta give up like 6-8 years of your life >_> I think they also get some kind of benefits for their first 6-8 years, but I'm not sure. I know they can roll their military time into retirement if they get a government job

invertedlegdrop posted...

more or less, if you bomb it (which is common for high schoolers) you can still join but youre doing low end work (my bro deliberately did as bad as he could, and he had to join since he had no academic achievement at all with his scores he cooked food for six years). If you get in the 50% or above scorewise, the recruiters come to you. I had the marines visit me at school...

Now even in my 30s, its a viable career option that may be a way forward...

I aced the practice test, except for the mechanical engineering section. Hrm.

I keep having to remind myself that I probably would've fucked up over there, having had undiagnosed issues at the time.

Smashingpmkns posted...

The only people I know my age that own their house (that weren't born rich at least) are ex-military Feel like "do you want to actually own a house?" is a selling point, albeit super bleak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO1wl0yXwGU

NeonTentacles posted...

It's pretty good depending on where you go. I was talking to a some random guy in the Air Force last night. He gets college paid for and does some engineering job there. It does sound like a pretty sweet gig. You just gotta give up like 6-8 years of your life >_> I think they also get some kind of benefits for their first 6-8 years, but I'm not sure. I know they can roll their military time into retirement if they get a government job

Well, standard contract is 4 years. Sometimes you can go lower depending on circumstances (like when the Army can't hit recruiting numbers and they need hot bodies). 6 years is generally reserved for more demanding jobs that have longer training pipelines - they invested time and a lot of money into you learning a valuable skill and they want to recuperate that. No one signs an 8 year Active Duty contract upfront.

That being said, *all* initial contracts are technically for 8 years. It's just... say you sign a 4 year contract to go into the Marines. Well, the remaining 4 years of that 8 year commitment will be to an individual ready reserve force where all you have to do is update your address once a year if that. Like you don't really... have to do anything at all. And if you do re-enlist then that 4 year inactive reserve time goes away.

You get all the same benefits at one day in as you do at ten years in. It does take some time to "unlock" certain benefits, for instance if you want 100% of your Post 9/11 GI Bill you have to serve 36 months continuously (three years). Or, they only do 1% contribution into your TSP until you hit 2 years of service, at which point they start matching up to 5% of your contributions. And I suppose if you're single and an E-2 you're not gonna be getting a house any time soon. But otherwise all the benefits are there.

Hexenherz posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nO1wl0yXwGU

Well, standard contract is 4 years. Sometimes you can go lower depending on circumstances (like when the Army can't hit recruiting numbers and they need hot bodies). 6 years is generally reserved for more demanding jobs that have longer training pipelines - they invested time and a lot of money into you learning a valuable skill and they want to recuperate that. No one signs an 8 year Active Duty contract upfront.

That being said, *all* initial contracts are technically for 8 years. It's just... say you sign a 4 year contract to go into the Marines. Well, the remaining 4 years of that 8 year commitment will be to an individual ready reserve force where all you have to do is update your address once a year if that. Like you don't really... have to do anything at all. And if you do re-enlist then that 4 year inactive reserve time goes away.

You get all the same benefits at one day in as you do at ten years in. It does take some time to "unlock" certain benefits, for instance if you want 100% of your Post 9/11 GI Bill you have to serve 36 months continuously (three years). Or, they only do 1% contribution into your TSP until you hit 2 years of service, at which point they start matching up to 5% of your contributions. And I suppose if you're single and an E-2 you're not gonna be getting a house any time soon. But otherwise all the benefits are there.

You have to serve 20 years to get the monthly retirement benefit.

Tora_Sami posted...

You have to serve 20 years to get the monthly retirement benefit.

Lol, got me there. They did change the retirement system back in 2018, though, so you can contribute more to your TSP. The idea being that even if you get out after one contract you'll have more saved towards retirement.

As a soldier, no. But for other careers, possibly. You'll generally be paid less and have little say on where you end up location wise, but at least they'll pay for your education and you'll be able to make a living.

Its still one of the best option for low income individuals in poverish neighborhoods. I joined and so did my younger brother recently. Which paid off for me, and him as well I hope.

But the next time we talk Ill be sure to tell him to serve his time, take advantage of its benefits and gtfo. Either with college or a trade line up at the exit.

Umbreon posted...

"Kill people and risk dying a horrible death in exchange for things other developed countries will give you freely" was never an appealing deal.

Military recruiters don't show up in rich schools.

Are recruiters still a thing? I used to see them all the time outside of malls and department stores. Can't remember the last time I saw someone in a military uniform walking around.

LeoRavus posted...

Are recruiters still a thing? I used to see them all the time outside of malls and department stores. Can't remember the last time I saw someone in a military uniform walking around.

They are still around but the ones I've seen are dressed like everyone else.

Umbreon posted...

Military recruiters don't show up in rich schools.

Of course they do, but they are recruiting for the military academies, not enlisted.

I remember scoring pretty well on whatever aptitude test we took in high school right as the Iraq War broke out. Yeah no thanks. Up until that war started I did want to join as a good deal of my family history is in the military.