Current Events > Israel/Palestine War: Live Thread 4 (Remake)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Turkish president calls for a new security mechanism for permanent peace between Israel and Hamas
From CNNs Hande Atay Alam
Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said a path to permanent peace in Gaza must be made between Israel and Hamas, arguing that there is a need "to establish a new security mechanism in cooperation with the actors in the region," according to Turkish state media Anadolu.

"We stated that security cannot be achieved by shooting and dropping more bombs on Gaza; shedding more blood, killing more children, and destroying more hospitals, schools, mosques, churches, and marketplaces," Erdogan said, according to Anadolu. "We believe that Israel, which seems to have completely lost its state of mind and acts like an organization, must be stopped as soon as possible."

He said that if such a security mechanism was established, "Turkey is ready to take responsibility," Anadolu reported.
The country's top priority, he added, is "preventing the massacre, which is on its 25th day."

"Our aim is to get our region out of this whirlpool it has been dragged into," he said.
"The Israeli administration, backed by the unconditional support of Europe and America, has been committing crimes against humanity in front of the eyes of the whole world for exactly 25 days," Erdogan said.

Hamas claims it will release some foreign hostages in the coming days
From CNN's Mohammed Tawfeeq
Hamas will free some foreign nationals they are holding hostage in the coming days, according to a Hamas military wing spokesperson.
"Some countries have intervened through mediators to free some foreign nationals' detainees in Gaza," Abu Obeida, a spokesperson for the Qassam Brigades, said in a video clip on Tuesday.
"We received the requests of these countries," he said without naming the countries. "Therefore, we informed the mediators that we will release a number of foreigners in the coming days," he added.
Obeida did not give further details on the nationalities and numbers of hostages Hamas claimed it will free.
Addressing the Israel Defense Forces' announcement that it had rescued a female IDF solider from Hamas captivity on Monday, the Hamas spokesperson said that none of the prisoners that the group is holding have been rescued and suggested that the solider could have been held prisoner by another group besides Hamas.

Starks posted...

I survived on all kinds of shawarma in Israel for Birthright. I couldn't tell the difference and I got from all kinds of vendors.

Coffee? The Bedouins do it best and it's not even close.

Trust me. I lives there for three years. Theres a difference.

VFalcone posted...

Hezbollah's Twitter is SUSPENDED https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-771073

"Free Speech Absolute" Elon Musk approved of this?

Interview with the son of Hamas's founder. Someone who knows as much as anyone how evil Hamas is, including to their own people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwvsrybklf8

Interview video of the man who recorded the civilian car that was blown up by a tank. He is a local journalist.

https://twitter.com/EekadFacts/status/1718934904715513909

Translation:
Witness: We were surprised and the car was surprised of the presence of a tank & bulldozer on Salah El Din street. The tank targeted the car directly. In front of our eyes, they targeted all of them.

Interviewer: Who was in the car? Did you get a look at the passengers? Were they civilians?

Witness: Yes, I saw them with my own eyes, they were civilians. An old guy, white haired, I saw him slip past me, he was the driver and behind him were children & women. They reached the tank and the old guy was surprised by it, he hit the brakes and turned around to go back and was hit.

2nd interviewer: Question then, were the cars you were warning? Did they turn around?

Witness: Yes, all but 2, there was a bus, he didnt hear us, and went ahead, he was also targeted. a bus filled with civilians.

It seems like the border at Rafah to Egypt is now open for the day.

VFalcone posted...

Translation:
Witness: We were surprised and the car was surprised of the presence of a tank & bulldozer on Salah El Din street. The tank targeted the car directly. In front of our eyes, they targeted all of them.

IDF : "The car was hiding Hamas Tunnels!!!"

Massive blast hits Gaza refugee camp for a second day in a row
A massive blast has rocked the Gaza refugee camp of Jabalya, destroying several buildings, for a second day in a row.
Video from the blast site on Wednesday showed catastrophic damage surrounding a deep crater in the Jabalya neighborhood of Falluja. People are seen digging through the rubble searching for bodies.
CNN has reached out to the Israeli military for comment.
The Civil Defense in Hamas-run Gaza said many people died in the attack and large numbers remained under the rubble in what it described as a second massacre at the refugee camp.
The Israeli military conducted airstrikes in Jabalya on Tuesday in an area near Falluja. Medics said there were hundreds of casualties dead and wounded. Videos seen by CNN on Tuesday showed long lines of bodies outside the Indonesian hospital, the nearest medical facility to Jabalya camp.
The IDF said Tuesdays strikes targeted and killed Ibrahim Biari, whom it described as one of the Hamas commanders responsible for the October 7 attack on Israel, which left more than 1,400 people dead and hundreds taken hostage.

The Israel Defense Forces confirmed that a blast in the Falluja neighborhood of the Jabalya refugee camps was due to an airstrike Wednesday.
The IDF statement reads as follows:

"Earlier today, based on precise intelligence, IDF fighter jets struck a Hamas command and control complex in Jabaliya. We can confirm that Hamas terrorists were eliminated in the strike.
Hamas deliberately builds its terror infrastructure under, around and within civilian buildings, intentionally endangering Gazan civilians.
The IDF has been urging Gazans in this neighborhood to evacuate as part of its efforts to mitigate harm to civilians. The IDF continues to call on all residents of northern Gaza and Gaza City to evacuate southwards to a safer area."

An Israeli strike on the Jabalya refugee camp Tuesday left catastrophic damage and killed a large number of people, according to eyewitnesses and medics there. Israel says its strike targeted and killed a top Hamas commander, while Hamas strongly denied the presence of one of its leaders in the camp.

Butchers

name_unknown posted...

"Hamas deliberately builds its terror infrastructure under, around and within civilian buildings, intentionally endangering Gazan civilians"

The Golden Parachute for Mass Murder and War Crimes has been used once again.

ultimate_reaver posted...

Butchers

It is easy to tell people to evacuate...
...and then attack where they evacuate to, when they evacuate there and then attack where the refugees that were too afraid to leave are.

Nearly half of Gaza's hospitals are out of service, Palestinian health ministry says
From CNNs Kareem El Damanhoury and Kareem Khadder
Sixteen out of 35 hospitals in Gaza are out of service due to bombardment and a fuel shortage, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Ramallah.
The Turkish-Palestinian Friendship Hospital, which is the leading cancer hospital in Gaza, is among hospitals that have stopped operating, the health ministry said in a statement Wednesday.
Palestinian Health Minister Mai al-Kaila, based in Ramallah, said on Wednesday that the lives of 70 cancer patients at the Turkish-Palestinian Friendship Hospital are seriously threatened, adding that the lives of about 2,000 other cancer patients are also under serious threat amid "catastrophic health conditions" due to the conflict.
Hospital director Sobhi Skaik told CNN on Monday that the center was damaged in an Israeli attack, with its third floor suffering a direct hit causing damage to oxygen and water supplies, though no one was injured. The Israeli military told CNN in a statement Tuesday: The IDF did not strike Gazas Turkish-Palestinian Friendship hospital. It did not offer any further information.
The Palestinian health ministry further warned that Gazas largest hospital could be out of service very soon.

Al Shifa Medical Complex will stop working in less than 24 hours due to running out of fuel, the ministry said, adding that the hospitals vicinity has been repeatedly hit by Israeli airstrikes.

The ministry called for Israeli attacks to stop, which it said would allow medical supplies and volunteer teams to enter, as well as wounded people to leave the strip for treatment.
Meanwhile, Israel has claimed that there is fuel in Gaza, but that it is under Hamas control.
Israel Defense Forces spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus told CNN last week that there is between 800,000 and perhaps more than one million liters of fuel of different types stored inside Gaza under Hamas control, according to Israeli military intelligence estimates. He said some of that fuel was stockpiled and accused the United Nations and Hamas of stealing some of it as well.

name_unknown posted...

Massive blast hits Gaza refugee camp for a second day in a row
A massive blast has rocked the Gaza refugee camp of Jabalya, destroying several buildings, for a second day in a row.

Really though? They shot it twice??

VFalcone posted...

Really though? They shot it twice??

They are just bombing where large amounts of Palestinians are gathering.

Instead of trying to limit civilian deaths they are trying to maximize them. It's the Israeli way.

VFalcone posted...

Really though? They shot it twice??

Going by IDF they bombed it twice to take one Hamas leader each time.

A far right government headed by a sociopathic leader doesnt give a fuck if he kills innocent people? And is given kids gloves by the US government?

Surely not

I honestly wouldn't expect anything different from Lapid or especially Bennett.

I know its the New York post, but all they are doing is reporting an interview.

What is your response to this?
https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-israel-attacks-again-and-again-until-its-destroyed/amp/

• 8,796 Palestinians dead in Gaza, 22,219 injured. (WaPo). AP and PBS say 8,805 dead, 21,543 injured. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/01/israel-war-hamas-news-gaza-palestine/ and https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-death-toll-numbers-injured-5c9dc40bec95a8408c83f3c2fb759da0
• 130 Palestinians dead in West Bank (PBS) https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/live-updates-whats-happening-in-the-israel-hamas-war-as-israeli-airstrikes- hit-gaza-refugee-camp-for-second-day
• 16 IDF soldiers dead from fighting in Gaza
• [Unconfirmed] IDF says Hamas steals fuel from hospitals https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-771238
• BBC announces emergency radio service for Gazans. The service can be used for daily updates https://twitter.com/meghamohan/status/1719681503188123711

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

What is your response to this?
https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-israel-attacks-again-and-again-until-its-destroyed/amp/

Hamas is evil

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I know its the New York post, but all they are doing is reporting an interview.

What is your response to this?
https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-israel-attacks-again-and-again-until-its-destroyed/amp/

This conflict won't end until Hamas surrenders or is killed.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I know its the New York post, but all they are doing is reporting an interview.

What is your response to this?
https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-israel-attacks-again-and-again-until-its-destroyed/amp/

Exactly the same as my response to Israel having that attitude towards Palestine. Fuck them. The two sides need to get rid of their extremist leaders / military and learn to live in peace with each other.

The one difference is that everyone already realizes Hamas is evil, so there's not much to be achieved by pointing it out every time I so much as see a Palestinian flag. On the other hand, a lot of people still have a hard time getting it through their head that Israel's government and military are every bit as bad, if not worse.

Trumble posted...

The one difference is that everyone already realizes Hamas is evil, so there's not much to be achieved by pointing it out every time I so much as see a Palestinian flag. On the other hand, a lot of people still have a hard time getting it through their head that Israel's government and military are every bit as bad, if not worse.

People are stupid and very VERY tunnel-visioned.

We see it all the time...criticize Israeli government, then you're an anti-Semite.
Show sympathy to Palestinian civilians, you're a terrorist sympathizer.

Some folks are so close-minded, they'd probably say "Palestinians deserve it" just for existing.
And are just as blind to folks saying the same thing about Jews in general.

BBC verifies attacks in areas of safety

To better understand the risk to civilians in south Gaza, BBC Verify has identified and analysed four specific instances of strikes in that region. We also looked at some of the warnings and evacuation instructions that were issued to Gazan civilians, including some advising them to move to certain areas in the south.

Some of these warnings were accompanied by maps with arrows pointing to vaguely defined areas to move towards. Three strikes we examined hit within, or close to, those areas in the days after the warnings were issued.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67264703

Trumble posted...

Exactly the same as my response to Israel having that attitude towards Palestine. Fuck them. The two sides need to get rid of their extremist leaders / military and learn to live in peace with each other.

The one difference is that everyone already realizes Hamas is evil, so there's not much to be achieved by pointing it out every time I so much as see a Palestinian flag. On the other hand, a lot of people still have a hard time getting it through their head that Israel's government and military are every bit as bad, if not worse.

The Israelis dont use civilians as bombs or human shields though. This a-hole in this video doesnt seem to give a crap about his own people being martyred, his word not mine, if it furthers his goal. The Israelis however would trade 1000 pows in exchange for one soldier.

So Im a little confused how you can compare the two in that regard. The Israeli government is obviously guilty of war crimes, and is in a tough spot trying to figure out how to fight an enemy like this, and its an atrocity that there are Palestinians caught in the middle of this, but surely there are layers to this.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

So Im a little confused how you can compare the two in that regard. The Israeli government is obviously guilty of war crimes, and is in a tough spot trying to figure out how to fight an enemy like this, and its an atrocity that there are Palestinians caught in the middle of this, but surely there are layers to this.

Hornezz posted...

Some of these warnings were accompanied by maps with arrows pointing to vaguely defined areas to move towards. Three strikes we examined hit within, or close to, those areas in the days after the warnings were issued.

Well, one layer is telling civilian refugees to go to areas where they then bomb them. I guess it saves on money when you tell a bunch of innocents to go to an area so you can kill as many as possible.

Hornezz posted...

BBC verifies attacks in areas of safety

To better understand the risk to civilians in south Gaza, BBC Verify has identified and analysed four specific instances of strikes in that region. We also looked at some of the warnings and evacuation instructions that were issued to Gazan civilians, including some advising them to move to certain areas in the south.

Some of these warnings were accompanied by maps with arrows pointing to vaguely defined areas to move towards. Three strikes we examined hit within, or close to, those areas in the days after the warnings were issued
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67264703

It's only expected. In a past live thread, I posted that it didn't make sense to tell all civilians to leave north Gaza so they can destroy the Hamas there because they'd obviously have to then get rid of the Hamas that's definitely in the south too. But the north would be gone, so the civilians wouldn't be able to just evacuate back north again lol.

Also surprised BBC is reporting it. They were going hard pro-Israel at first.

VFalcone posted...

It's only expected. In a past live thread, I posted that it didn't make sense to tell all civilians to leave north Gaza so they can destroy the Hamas there because they'd obviously have to then get rid of the Hamas that's definitely in the south too. But the north would be gone, so the civilians wouldn't be able to just evacuate back north again lol.

Also surprised BBC is reporting it. They were going hard pro-Israel at first.

Telling Palestinians to evacuate an area to spare civilians is sadly pointless, it just tells hamas terrorists to move away from there as well.
The US doesn't bother with this shit, if we can assassinate a terrorist, we just do it, and if there's a dozen civilians in the same area...'tis a shame, but we still do it.
Hamas will never try to fight with the slightest bit of honor, and they'll never surrender. Unless Biden can bribe Egypt into TEMPORARILY (stress that part) taking in Palestinian refugees so Hamas runs out of children to cower behind, there's no "good solution".

streamofthesky posted...

Telling Palestinians to evacuate an area to spare civilians is sadly pointless, it just tells hamas terrorists to move away from there as well.
The US doesn't bother with this shit, if we can assassinate a terrorist, we just do it, and if there's a dozen civilians in the same area...'tis a shame, but we still do it.
Hamas will never try to fight with the slightest bit of honor, and they'll never surrender. Unless Biden can bribe Egypt into TEMPORARILY (stress that part) taking in Palestinian refugees so Hamas runs out of children to cower behind, there's no "good solution".

JFC. You could write recruitment pamphlets for the IDF. Sickening to use 'Hamas is everywhere so kill away'. Like how does anyone not soaking in evil say that?

The rules of war are pretty clear that "it would be inconvenient not to" is not a good justification for killing civilians

Sandalorn posted...

JFC. You could write recruitment pamphlets for the IDF. Sickening to use 'Hamas is everywhere so kill away'. Like how does anyone not soaking in evil say that?

I said I want the civilians evacuated. Egypt refuses. It's a horrible situation, and you strawmanning me doesn't help anything.

streamofthesky posted...

I said I want the civilians evacuated. Egypt refuses. It's a horrible situation, and you strawmanning me doesn't help anything.

You and I both know that Israel will do everything they can to keep extending that "temporary" evacuation.

streamofthesky posted...

Telling Palestinians to evacuate an area to spare civilians is sadly pointless, it just tells hamas terrorists to move away from there as well.
The US doesn't bother with this shit, if we can assassinate a terrorist, we just do it, and if there's a dozen civilians in the same area...'tis a shame, but we still do it.
Hamas will never try to fight with the slightest bit of honor, and they'll never surrender. Unless Biden can bribe Egypt into TEMPORARILY (stress that part) taking in Palestinian refugees so Hamas runs out of children to cower behind, there's no "good solution".

What a load of nonsense. Do everyone a favor and stay quiet.

streamofthesky posted...

Telling Palestinians to evacuate an area to spare civilians is sadly pointless, it just tells hamas terrorists to move away from there as well.
The US doesn't bother with this shit, if we can assassinate a terrorist, we just do it, and if there's a dozen civilians in the same area...'tis a shame, but we still do it.
Hamas will never try to fight with the slightest bit of honor, and they'll never surrender. Unless Biden can bribe Egypt into TEMPORARILY (stress that part) taking in Palestinian refugees so Hamas runs out of children to cower behind, there's no "good solution".

Look, dont take the abuse the wrong way. Their hearts are in the right place. They believe in an objective good and evil and assume there can be no deviation from that regardless of logistics. There is literally no situation in their minds in which it is ok to bomb a hospital. Even if a nuclear bomb was on the fourth floor and carried a blast radius of one thousand miles and was going to go off in ten minutes, even then, not ok to bomb the hospital if you have terrorists hiding behind human shields.

Which is good in a way. Regardless of the logistics, you are still in control of your own actions. While it would be great if they learned how to communicate without being rude, their hearts are in the right place.

I mean, if innocent civilians are going to die, let the bad guys do it. And then you pick your spots, and maybe youll figure it out later.

The logistics of this thing can not be excused if you ignore the international rules of war. Its a rule drawn with a sharpie as far as they are concerned. There are other ways to prevent a repetition of October 7th..like not having a Jewish state.

What in the Jack Bauer happened to your brain?

The self-righteousness behind that load of shit is galactic in nature.

It's the level of self-righteousness that allows a human to value Palestinian lives at fucking zero.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

There is literally no situation in their minds in which it is ok to bomb a hospital.

It's called being normal. Please try it

New Sig so no one ever forgets..

Sandalorn posted...

The self-righteousness behind that load of shit is galactic in nature.

It's the level of self-righteousness that allows a human to value Palestinian lives at fucking zero.

No, it really isnt. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to arrive at the conclusion that all lives matter equally.

It does take a self righteous holier than thou paragon of virtue wannabe to preach about the international rules of war on a videogame website when its not their people who were massacred in their homes, and then only expect one side to follow them. I am merely pointing out that logistically, it makes no sense from the Israeli perspective to live up to these standards in their totality when Hamas doesnt have to.

Its always Hamas is evil, but Israel is worse with you people, and Im sick of the double standard.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I know its the New York post, but all they are doing is reporting an interview.

What is your response to this?
https://nypost.com/2023/11/01/news/hamas-official-vows-to-repeat-israel-attacks-again-and-again-until-its-destroyed/amp/

So Israel is repeating the attacks, again and again until Gaza is destroyed and another terrorist group is vowing to do the same.

At what point do we not see that this is only going to end will hundreds of thousands dead and try to do something different. When has bombing actually ever worked in the history of this planet? And I don't mean nukes. Bombing didn't work in Korea, didn't work in Vietnam, didn't work in Iraq, both times, didn't work in Afghanistan, didn't work in World War 1 or 2. How has it worked for Israel? They've bombed Palestinians for decades, what has it changed?

A diplomatic solution should be sought, not more violence and bloodshed.

Forty_Niners posted...

So Israel is repeating the attacks, again and again until Gaza is destroyed and another terrorist group is vowing to do the same.

At what point do we not see that this is only going to end will hundreds of thousands dead and try to do something different. When has bombing actually ever worked in the history of this planet? And I don't mean nukes. Bombing didn't work in Korea, didn't work in Vietnam, didn't work in Iraq, both times, didn't work in Afghanistan, didn't work in World War 1 or 2. How has it worked for Israel? They've bombed Palestinians for decades, what has it changed?

A diplomatic solution should be sought, not more violence and bloodshed.

I agree in principle. But diplomacy only works when your enemy recognizes your right to exist.

I would be more than happy to make concessions to the Palestinian Authority for peace. Its that damned Hamas that gets in the way of that.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

when its not their people who were massacred in their homes,

Is your claim to this tragedy more valid than the Jewish protesters calling for ceasefire at the Capitol?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/jewish-led-demonstrations-for-gaza-cease-fire-see-hundreds-arrested-at-capitol/ar-AA1itt30
Than the Israeli peace activists calling for an end to the bombings?
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/22/world/middleeast/peace-activists-israel-palestinian.html
Than the families of hostages questioning whether their government's actions might be putting their relatives in more, not less danger?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/28/prisoner-exchange-israeli-captive-families-demand-answers-from-netanyahu
https://news.yahoo.com/don-t-destroy-gaza-families-134537012.html

Let's settle down a bit, folks

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I agree in principle. But diplomacy only works when your enemy recognizes your right to exist.

I would be more than happy to make concessions to the Palestinian Authority for peace. Its that damned Hamas that gets in the way of that.

Israel should recognize that Palestinians have a right to exist too.

Forty_Niners posted...

Israel should recognize that Palestinians have a right to exist too.

Absolutely. Im not some crazy religious zealot that is opposed to a two state solution where Palestinians cant have East Jerusalem as their capital. The region would be 1000x better off with two states working together in peace than it is now.

The only problem I have with a cease fire is that it doesnt stop the killing of innocent civilians as long as Hamas is around. It just delays it. Weve got documented proof that they plan on doing it again and again until the end of time.

Look, if this situation ends with the ICJ indicting the Israeli government on war crimes, I have no problem with it, as long as it ends with the leadership of Hamas arrested as criminals at the same time. In actuality, that is probably the best case scenario for peace.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I agree in principle. But diplomacy only works when your enemy recognizes your right to exist.

I would be more than happy to make concessions to the Palestinian Authority for peace. Its that damned Hamas that gets in the way of that.

Hamas has already acknowledged a two state solution in 2017.

squall567 posted...

Hamas has already acknowledged a two state solution in 2017.

Do they recognize Israel?

After being heckled by a Rabbi tonight, Biden says he's pushing for a "humanitarian pause."
https://bsky.app/profile/brainnotonyet.antifa.llc/post/3kd63nkoufu2q

A pause is notably not a ceasefire, but more than Biden has backed so far
https://www.discourseblog.com/p/just-say-ceasefire-bernie

The crowd chanted "four more years" while the rabbi was escorted out by security.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

all lives matter equally

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

I am merely pointing out that logistically, it makes no sense from the Israeli perspective to live up to these standards in their totality when Hamas doesnt have to.

"All lives matter equally, unless someone I like needs to retaliate by bombing hospitals so that cancer patients, babies in incubators, and dozens of other helpless innocents die."

Quite the take, my dude.