Current Events > Israel/Palestine War: Live Thread 4 (Remake)

(+) Yeah! (+)

McSame_as_Bush posted...

Lol they definitely could. It's a matter of how hard they want to push.

They could threaten to vote against them in the UN. They could recall their ambassador. Etc.

They... could also just stop giving them the weapons they're using to cause more civilian casualties........

US: *Pledges to support Israel and send them weapons and ammunition*

Israel: *Civilians being killed by weapons and ammunition, with US support*

US: "There's nothing we can do to influence Israel."

MarcyWarcy posted...

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1721223370941804830?s=20

damn we tried giving them more bombs, what else can we do

I dunno, maybe try not giving them more bombs? Maybe also try economic sanctions like most of the world has against Russia - sure, they didn't outright stop Russia, but they're definitely hurting.

MarcyWarcy posted...

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1721223370941804830?s=20

damn we tried giving them more bombs, what else can we do

Aside from "kill 'em all," I can't fathom a worse response than this.

MarcyWarcy posted...

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1721223370941804830?s=20

damn we tried giving them more bombs, what else can we do

No joke, the answer is: give them smaller bombs
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/us-officials-outline-steps-to-israel-to-reduce-civilian-casualties

Some posts about misinformation
https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1721321581350183320

https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1721329759420875077

A little boy and his baby sister covered in ash after they survived an Israeli airstrike. Big brother and his second sibling, his baby brother, are reunited after he is found wandering aimlessly. However, their mother seems to be gone. (ABC)
https://streamable.com/ei4uiw
https://www.tiktok.com/@cbsnews/video/7297344797268839722?_t=8h6XxbUT2pd&_r=1

Poor boy is probably going to have to raise two toddlers now.

https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status/1720928284853071879

this shit is wild, cannot believe that people are defending this worm (ignore the source itself, awful shit)

The number of Palestinians killed in Gaza since Hamas attacked Israel on October 7 has surpassed 10,000, the Hamas-controlled Ministry of Health in Gaza announced Monday.
Ashraf Al Qudra, spokesperson for the ministry, said 10,022 Palestinians in the enclave had been killed by Israeli strikes, including 4,104 children, 2,641 women and 611 elderly people. Those numbers suggest about three-quarters of the dead are from vulnerable populations.
The ministry reported another 25,408 people have been injured.
It's unclear how many combatants are included in the total. CNN cannot independently verify the numbers released by the ministry in Gaza, which is sealed off by Israel and mostly sealed by Egypt.
Some background: Israel declared war on Hamas after the Islamist militant group launched a brutal attack on October 7, killing 1,400 in Israel and kidnapping more than 240. Israel retaliated by launching an air and ground offensive on Gaza, vowing to eliminate the militant group.
Thousands more Palestinians have been killed in Gaza in the last month than those who died in conflicts with Israel spanning over the last 15 years.
The United Nations Human Rights Office said the attacks last week on Gazas largest refugee camp could amount to war crimes given the scale of casualties and destruction.

AnsestralRecall posted...

https://twitter.com/Terror_Alarm/status/1720928284853071879

this shit is wild, cannot believe that people are defending this worm (ignore the source itself, awful shit)

Imagine what kind of power you must have to turn a nice German leader that only want to re-unite Germany into a Jew-hating killer, and then erase all traces of it, except from some future Zionist asses.
Do they have any explanation of why they only did it with Hitler? I mean, if I hated Jews so much so I could convince a nice world leader into burning Jews for me, then I wouldnt stop there, I would dedicate my life to convince more world leaders to do the same.

Husseini was a bad dude, but I don't think he was Hitler's BFF.

name_unknown posted...

Death tolls

Guess I can take today off. Good looking, name_unknown .

So with these numbers, we have just about 10k dead in a month. If the pace continues the same with no increases or decreases, that'll be 120,000 dead by next year. That's with the hope that the death rate doesn't increase significantly

Current averages with the current tolls are:
323 people per day

• 132 children per day
• 84 women per day
• Roughly 106 men per day

Not sure why the elderly are separate from women... Messes up the math. I can't calculate that. All in all, the children are getting the worst of it by a large amount

There arent any elderly in Palestine. I think the average age is like 40-50.

edit fuck. Its event younger. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/43ecbee8.jpg

punkfanalways posted...

There arent any elderly in Palestine. I think the average age is like 40-50.

edit fuck. Its event younger. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/43ecbee8.jpg

Probably due to horrifically low quality health care. And constantly getting bombed or shot by the IDF

punkfanalways posted...

There arent any elderly in Palestine. I think the average age is like 40-50.

edit fuck. Its event younger. https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/43ecbee8.jpg

50% are 18 or younger. 40% are 14 or younger. Something like that. There are definitely elderly folk there though. Just not a lot. As we can see.

I posted a video a few days ago where a missile hit close to a church and there was an old nun there.

Israel needs to be demilitarized, either by pressure or by force if necessary. No lesser outcome is acceptable at this point.

40% of their population was under 18 before this started.

Trumble posted...

Israel needs to be demilitarized, either by pressure or by force if necessary. No lesser outcome is acceptable at this point.

that would just start a genocide in the other direction

thronedfire2 posted...

that would just start a genocide in the other direction

Another solution needs to be found to prevent that, but Israel has proven time and time again they cannot be trusted to hold any military capability. "Someone else might theoretically commit genocide" is not a good reason to not remove the ability of someone *already* committing it to continue doing so.

Israel must not be allowed to possess so much as a single bullet.

thronedfire2 posted...

that would just start a genocide in the other direction

Park US troops there. I mean, we've been engaged in nation-building there since its inception, if they belong anywhere it makes the most sense to put them there.

its not a theory. If they couldnt defend themselves they already would have been wiped out by now, 100%. If not by hamas, one of the other countries would move in and annex the territory themselves

thronedfire2 posted...

its not a theory. If they couldnt defend themselves they already would have been wiped out by now, 100%. If not by hamas, one of the other countries would move in and annex the territory themselves

Then a third party needs to be involved to prevent that. Israel has proven time and time again that if they are allowed to have military capability, they will attack civilians and attempt genocide. Unlike your claims, this isn't a matter of "trust me bro it will happen"; we've seen them actually attempt it time and time again. Total demilitarization of Israel is the only way to ensure the safety of Israel's neighbors.

Trumble posted...

Then a third party needs to be involved to prevent that. Israel has proven time and time again that if they are allowed to have military capability, they will attack civilians and attempt genocide. Unlike your claims, this isn't a matter of "trust me bro it will happen"; we've seen them actually attempt it time and time again. Total demilitarization of Israel is the only way to ensure the safety of Israel's neighbors.

good job ignoring the times Israel has been invaded already, I guess? What do you think would have happened if they couldnt defend themselves back then?

and yeah, 3rd party mediation is probably needed. But something tells me US troops occupying the holy land will only make things far worse before they get any better

Israel puts too much emphasis on defining which borders are defensible or not. Even the status quo before the war wasn't good enough for them. Part of why Golan will never be returned and why they're adamantly against a contiguous West Bank with access to the Jordan River.

"You won too many wars so now you can't have weapons", is very Millennial.

thronedfire2 posted...

good job ignoring the times Israel has been invaded already, I guess? What do you think would have happened if they couldnt defend themselves back then?

If they lacked even a self-defense, let alone offensive, capability, they would never have been able to take the actions that they were attacked in retaliation for.

Stop pretending Israel has ever been the innocent party. They never have. The means by which they were attacked in some cases, where civilians rather than military / government were targeted, were not okay, but it's also EXACTLY what Israel themself do so it would be hypocritical to consider Israel innocent but their various opponents guilty. Not to mention Israel does that to a much greater scale.

Israel needs to be demilitarized and its government given a huge shakeup, similar to Japan after WW2. In time, perhaps defence can transition from a third party to a purely defensive military capability of their own. For now, though, Israel cannot be trusted with even a single bullet. And they can NEVER again be trusted with any capability to act beyond their borders.

Trumble posted...

If they lacked even a self-defense, let alone offensive, capability, they would never have been able to take the actions that they were attacked in retaliation for.

Stop pretending Israel has ever been the innocent party. They never have. The means by which they were attacked in some cases, where civilians rather than military / government were targeted, were not okay, but it's also EXACTLY what Israel themself do so it would be hypocritical to consider Israel innocent but their various opponents guilty. Not to mention Israel does that to a much greater scale.

Israel needs to be demilitarized and its government given a huge shakeup, similar to Japan after WW2. In time, perhaps defence can transition from a third party to a purely defensive military capability of their own. For now, though, Israel cannot be trusted with even a single bullet.

Israel got invaded by 4 countries literally the day it became an independent nation. The Palestinians and surrounding nations may not have agreed with Israels establishment, but they lost territory because they started a war. They could have just accepted it and tried to work things out for the better back then.

if Russia ends up losing territory because of the war in Ukraine they dont deserve to have that handed back to them either

Trumble posted...

Stop pretending Israel has ever been the innocent party. They never have.

Stop posting on this topic.

thronedfire2 posted...

Israel got invaded by 4 countries literally the day it became an independent nation. The Palestinians and surrounding nations may not have agreed with Israels establishment, but they lost territory because they started a war. They could have just accepted it and tried to work things out for the better back then.

Funny how it's always "everyone else should just accept Israel's actions and work it out later". Meanwhile, that "later" never comes and Israel keeps pushing for more, and the narrative is "just accept it and sort it out later" all over again.

Israel became a state by invading. At this point, that's too far in the past for reversing it to be a reasonable solution - many people living there have never known anywhere else and as an individual that's their home, always has been - but *recent* expansions need to be reversed, future ones need to stop, and Israel's capability to pursue it needs to be dismantled.

"Someone else might become the new bad guy" is never a reason to not deal with the current bad guy. It's a reason to be prepared to deal with the next bad guy afterwards, nothing more.

UN says 88 staffers killed in war. The highest in UN history https://m.timesofindia.com/world/middle-east/88-united-nations-staffers-killed-in-gaza-marks-highest-death-toll-in-single-
war/articleshow/105000232.cms

"Jordan said on Monday it was leaving "all options" open in its response to what it called Israel's failure to discriminate between military and civilian targets in its intensifying bombardment and invasion of the Gaza Strip." https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/jordan-says-all-options-open-gaza-conflict-intensifies-2023-11-06

Jordan's patience and goodwill is waning. That's not good at all.

Trumble posted...

Funny how it's always "everyone else should just accept Israel's actions and work it out later". Meanwhile, that "later" never comes and Israel keeps pushing for more, and the narrative is "just accept it and sort it out later" all over again.

Israel became a state by invading. At this point, that's too far in the past for reversing it to be a reasonable solution - many people living there have never known anywhere else and as an individual that's their home, always has been - but *recent* expansions need to be reversed, future ones need to stop, and Israel's capability to pursue it needs to be dismantled.

"Someone else might become the new bad guy" is never a reason to not deal with the current bad guy. It's a reason to be prepared to deal with the next bad guy afterwards, nothing more.

That dude is a true Believer of whatever Israel does. Could be Bibi's right hand man. He deflects EVERYTHING.

thronedfire2 posted...

Israel got invaded by 4 countries literally the day it became an independent nation. The Palestinians and surrounding nations may not have agreed with Israels establishment, but they lost territory because they started a war.

Yeah, I dont know what that guy is talking about. Its like lets pretend that neighboring Arab countries did not already try to wipe out Israel and that its not Hamas goal to do exactly that.

thronedfire2 posted...

Israel got invaded by 4 countries literally the day it became an independent nation. The Palestinians and surrounding nations may not have agreed with Israels establishment, but they lost territory because they started a war. They could have just accepted it and tried to work things out for the better back then.

if Russia ends up losing territory because of the war in Ukraine they dont deserve to have that handed back to them either

You are asking for a headache going back and forth with these guys. Its not going to end well for you. There are two sides here. Either Israel has a right to defend itself against terrorism or it doesnt. Pointing out historical facts that explain how we got here wont justify what is going on in Gaza at the moment, so theres literally no point in trying.

Israel being the Jewish state is the problem. Its establishment as a safe haven for Jews is irrelevant because of the fact that the British colonized the Middle East and Israel is the last remnant of that. The fact that the Jewish leaders accepted the 47 partition plan is moot, because Israel expanded its borders after being attacked. The fact that Syria and Egypt were massing troops on both borders before the June 67 war and then dragged Jordan into it is null and void because Israel annexed Jerusalem. The fact that since 1967, Israel has been invaded several times (1973, 2006, 2023 just to name a few) means absolutely nothing because well - they never should have been there in the first place. The 240 hostages? Lost in the shuffle now that 10,000 Palestinians have been killed.

You see? Its nothing but an endless game of back and forth. And right now, the PR war is being won by the Palestinians, because the Israeli government is a right wing fanatical racist organization with an approval rating in the teens and a military operating in civilian territories.

As much as we want this to be about Israels right to exist because of what Hamas did, its not. If a ceasefire happened today; Israel would still exist tomorrow albeit with a civilian population that has live worrying if tomorrow, it could their turn to wind up hostages in Gaza.

So no point. There is no winning this argument here.

The fact that the Jewish leaders accepted the 47 partition plan is moot, because Israel expanded its borders after being attacked.

its borders were never established because the other parties didn't accept the partition plan. the borders ended up where they were after the war.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Either Israel has a right to defend itself against terrorism or it doesnt

Massacring civilians is not defending itself against terrorism. Occupying territories is not defending itself against terrorism. If the means they'd use to defend themself against terrorists are instead being used for those kind of actions, they cannot be trusted to retain a first-party defensive capability.

Palestine as well as Oman who's sitting by in it's own corner is calling for the International Criminal Court to arrest people, giving them the Vladimir Putin treatment.
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/oman-calls-for-international-court-to-investigate-war-crimes-by-israel-in-gaza/3043632
https://www.aa.com.tr/en/world/palestine-urges-icc-to-issue-arrest-warrants-for-israeli-officials-over-gaza-conflict/3045316

Trumble posted...

Massacring civilians is not defending itself against terrorism. Occupying territories is not defending itself against terrorism. If the means they'd use to defend themself against terrorists are instead being used for those kind of actions, they cannot be trusted to retain a first-party defensive capability.

yeah they should at least be attempting to clear out Hamas with more ground troops instead of indiscriminately(or purposely) bombing civilians. Hopefully once this war is over the UN or something can establish 3rd party peacekeeping in the area

thronedfire2 posted...

Hopefully once this war is over the UN or something can establish 3rd party peacekeeping in the area

That's likely the only acceptable way that peace in that region can actually be achieved short term.

Another solution needs to be found to prevent that, but Israel has proven time and time again they cannot be trusted to hold any military capability. "Someone else might theoretically commit genocide" is not a good reason to not remove the ability of someone *already* committing it to continue doing so.

Israel must not be allowed to possess so much as a single bullet.

That only happens if all of those around them are not allowed to have a single bullet. Of course if you think that can only happen with a third party then that means they should all just go back to being a European colony?

Necronmon posted...

That only happens if all of those around them are not allowed to have a single bullet as well

If the governments of those countries begin committing attacks comparable to Israel's, sure. Now remind me exactly when the last time they demolished multiple entire Israeli neighborhoods in "retaliation" for what someone else altogether did to them was...?

Starks posted...

Whenever the US would bomb a wedding or civilian target, it was almost always by accident.

LOL if you actually believe this. The US is an evil empire.

thronedfire2 posted...

Hopefully once this war is over the UN or something can establish 3rd party peacekeeping in the area

I don't think it will be necessary because Israel wants to wipe Gaza "clean" of Palestinians. Probably not enough left alive afterwards.

Time to kill this. News articles linked most recently will be brought over to the next one

MarcyWarcy posted...

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/1721223370941804830?s=20

damn we tried giving them more bombs, what else can we do

Fucking cowards.

Netanyahu: Israel will have overall security responsibility for Gaza for indefinite period after war ends
From CNN's Kareem El Damanhoury and Mitchell McCluskey
Israel will have the "overall security responsibility" in Gaza for an "indefinite period" after the war ends, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said in an interview that aired on ABC News on Monday.

Gaza should be governed by those who dont want to continue the way of Hamas," Netanyahu said, before adding, "I think Israel will, for an indefinite period, will have the overall security responsibility because weve seen what happens when we dont have it.

The prime minister also repeated that Israel will not allow a general ceasefire until all hostages are released by Hamas.
However, Netanyahu said he was open to short pauses to take place.

"As far as tactical little pauses, an hour here, an hour there. We've had them before, I suppose, we'll check the circumstances in order to enable goods, humanitarian goods to come in, or our hostages, individual hostages to leave. But I don't think there's going to be a general ceasefire," he said.

Netanyahu also addressed the role of Iran and Hezbollah in the conflict, cautioning them from getting more involved.
"I think they've understood that if they enter the war in a significant way, the response will be very, very powerful and I hope they don't make that mistake," Netanyahu told ABC.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Israel has been invaded several times (1973, 2006, 2023 just to name a few)

2023? Are you counting terrorist attacks as "invasions?"

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

The 240 hostages? Lost in the shuffle now that 10,000 Palestinians have been killed.

The ones the IDF keeps allegedly shooting?

US forces attacked 8 times since Friday in Iraq and Syria as Iranian-backed militias ramp up assaults
From CNN's Haley Britzky,
American troops were attacked an additional eight times since Friday morning by one-way attack drones and rocket barrages in Iraq and Syria as US forces face ramped-up assaults by Iranian-backed groups.
The new incidents one on Friday afternoon, another on Saturday, five more on Sunday and one on Monday morning mark a total of at least 38 attacks on US and coalition forces in those two nations since October 17, 10 days after the start of a bloody war between Israel and Hamas.
CNN has reported that Iran is seeking to capitalize on the backlash to US support for Israel, and while Tehran may not be explicitly directing the groups attacks, it does appear to be encouraging them.
While the increase in attacks started after the brutal attack by Hamas on Israel on October 7, Pentagon officials have declined to draw a direct correlation between the increase in attacks and the conflict in Gaza, saying instead that Iran has long sought to force the US from the region.
Irans strategic objective for a very long time, way before October 7, was to force US forces to withdraw from the region, a senior defense official said on October 30. We have maintained tens of thousands of US forces across the region for decades. We have increased our air defense posture. Most of these attacks have been unsuccessful. But Irans strategic objective has not changed.
The dozens of attacks have largely focused on US and coalition forces at Al-Asad Airbase, Iraq, and al-Tanf Garrison, Syria, with some attacks near Mission Support Site Green Village in Syria; Bashur, Iraq; Mission Support Site Euphrates, Syria; Erbil Airbase, Iraq; Shaddadi, Syria; Rumalyn Landing Zone, Syria; and Tall Baydar, Syria.
On Friday afternoon, a one-way attack drone was shot down near Shaddadi, Syria, with no casualties or infrastructure damage reported, a US official updated on Monday. On Saturday morning, another one-way attack drone was shot down near Shaddadi with no casualties or infrastructure damage reported.
The attacks increased in frequency on Sunday totaling five separate incidents; one-way attack drones were shot down near Tall Baydar, Syria; al-Tanf Garrison, Syria; and three times near Al-Asad Airbase, Iraq. One attack on Al-Asad also included a multi-rocket attack alongside multiple one-way attack drones.
Another one-way attack drone was shot down near Tall Baydar, Syria, on Monday morning. None of the attacks over the weekend resulted in casualties or damage to infrastructure, according to the US official.
Most of these attacks were successfully disrupted by our military, the US official said. Most failed to reach their targets, thanks to our robust defenses.

UN Security Council fails to agree on resolution to halt fighting in Gaza
From CNN's Richard Roth and Hamdi Alkhshali
In a private session Monday, the United Nations Security Council failed to reach a consensus on a draft resolution aimed at halting the ongoing conflict in the Middle East.
There is no agreement at this point, said Deputy US Ambassador to the United Nations Robert Wood.
The so-called E-10, consisting of 10 non-permanent member states of the Security Council, has drafted a resolution.
However, the United States and the United Kingdom, permanent members who possess veto power, have opposed it. Western powers, particularly the US and UK, are resistant to including language in the resolution that calls for an immediate ceasefire, a proposition supported by several other Council members.
There have been discussions about humanitarian pauses, Wood said, "and we're interested in pursuing language on that score." But he added there was disagreement within the Security Council on whether that would be acceptable.
China's UN Ambassador Jun Zhang, echoed the sentiments expressed by Secretary-General Antnio Guterres, emphasizing that "Gaza is a graveyard for children." Zhang called for an urgent ceasefire to facilitate the delivery of humanitarian aid to Gaza.
As we speak, Palestinian civilians continue to be killed. Children are bearing the brunt, as several US officials have stated already. Gaza is becoming a graveyard for children. No one is safe, Zhang said.
The United Arab Emirates emphasized the importance of upholding the rules of warfare. UAE Ambassador Lana Zaki Nusseibeh, who co-initiated the meeting with China, underlined that discussions within the Council were ongoing, and nations were working to bridge their differences.
We condemn the seventh October attacks by Hamas on Israel. We also condemned the indiscriminate attacks by Israel on the Gaza Strip. We express our grave concern that the continued detention of hostages and demand the immediate and unconditional release of all hostages, as well as their safety well-being and humane treatment consistent with international law, Nusseibeh said.
Nusseibeh added that the killing and maiming of children, attacks on schools and hospitals and the Gaza Strip and denying children access to humanitarian assistance are all very grave violations. against children.
During the meeting, UN humanitarian officials briefed the Security Council on the dire humanitarian situation in the region.
Previous attempts to pass resolutions in the Security Council have faced challenges, including two US vetoes, further underscoring the complexity of reaching a consensus on this critical issue.

No matter what happens, we must not let the right-wing muddle the waters here.