Current Events > How come liberals are against Israel?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Chicken posted...

https://www.tiktok.com/@hotspotmedia/video/7292103233655344414?_r=1&_t=8ggnBD2LWxZ

Posting this again. Anyone that supports Israel after they come out with statements like this is pure fucking evil or they're ignorant. Which one are you?

One states that every child is equal and the other one states that there isnt any symmetry between Gaza and Israel because Israel only wants peace, and that Gaza doesnt. Which is an opinion held by many Israelis simply because of all the terror inflicted upon them by Hamas. So one is a reasonable human being and the other is a racist bigot. Not disputing that.

We dont have racist bigots in this country? Do racist bigots speak for the whole of America? MTG has said far worse.

Stop cherrypicking quotes off of tiktok to continue a clear smear campaign against the Jewish state. It would probably be a good idea to, I dont know, hear the whole conversation?

Shocking, I know. I must be an evil POS for even suggesting it.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Stop cherrypicking quotes off of tiktok to continue a clear smear campaign against the Jewish state

If you want to try to take a high ground about narratives, then don't use language like "the Jewish state". Israel does not speak for the Jewish people and it is false & manipulative to insinuate criticism of Israel's policies is antisemitism.

I stand against Innocents dying. Which means I am against Hamas and what Israel's military does.

Because Hamas is terrorists, but Israel is run by fascists, so neither side is worthy of my support.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

One states that every child is equal and the other one states that there isnt any symmetry between Gaza and Israel because Israel only wants peace, and that Gaza doesnt. Which is an opinion held by many Israelis simply because of all the terror inflicted upon them by Hamas. So one is a reasonable human being and the other is a racist bigot. Not disputing that.

We dont have racist bigots in this country? Do racist bigots speak for the whole of America? MTG has said far worse.

Stop cherrypicking quotes off of tiktok to continue a clear smear campaign against the Jewish state. It would probably be a good idea to, I dont know, hear the whole conversation?

Shocking, I know. I must be an evil POS for even suggesting it.

Have you decided yet why renouncing citizenship is treason? If you answered, I'm sorry I wasn't online to see it and the topic is probably purged by now, so I'd appreciate if you'd repeat.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Israel only wants peace

You're kidding, right?

DnDer posted...

You're kidding, right?

To be fair, genocide of the Palestinian people will accomplish this...

(mods, I am saying this cynically, not advocating for it)

DnDer posted...

You're kidding, right?

I guess now he'll be saying the majority of Israelis are antisemitic since they want that fascist warmonger Bibi to resign.

Not a liberal, but a fascist apartheid state is not going to gain my support in any matter.

Don't approve of the actions of Hamas, to be clear.

Palestinian citizens are the greatest victims in this and should be supported over anyone else.

We should be treating this as the humanitarian crisis it is. A strong military power is intent on committing genocide under the guise of stopping Hamas.

We should be evacuating, treating, feeding, clothing the displaced Palestinians.

We should sever all financial and military support to Israel.

Free Palestinians =/= Pro Hamas.
Not supporting Israel =/= Pro Hamas
Not blindly supporting Israel =/= antisemitism
Not pretending the Israeli government is angels who don't commit humanitarian crimes =/= hate Jewish people
Jewish civilians =/= Israeli government

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

One states that every child is equal and the other one states that there isnt any symmetry between Gaza and Israel because Israel only wants peace, and that Gaza doesnt. Which is an opinion held by many Israelis simply because of all the terror inflicted upon them by Hamas. So one is a reasonable human being and the other is a racist bigot. Not disputing that.

We dont have racist bigots in this country? Do racist bigots speak for the whole of America? MTG has said far worse.

Stop cherrypicking quotes off of tiktok to continue a clear smear campaign against the Jewish state. It would probably be a good idea to, I dont know, hear the whole conversation?

Shocking, I know. I must be an evil POS for even suggesting it.

There is no smear campaign against the Jewish State.
There is a campaign to expose the IDF and Netanyu for the Corrupt Fascist Regime they are in charge of and to expose all the war crimes and atrocties they have commited.

Netanyu and The IDF do not want peace... why not stop the smear campaign against the Palestinians and those who support them?

By suggesting anyone that opposes Israel must be an anti-semite is a dominating and aggressive line of thinking, as you are trying to paint anyone that criticizes Israels actions, even when it should be criticized, as an anti-semite, so if we are unable to criticize , that means no matter how many atrocities they commit, they are in the right, and we should just stay silent.

Not going to happen, when you tell someone to shut the fuck up, they just start yelling... Trying to silence the opinion of those who disagree with you or paint them as terrorist sympathizers is an aggresive last resort technique when you are unable to bring any further valid points to the discussion so you instead brandish them as a traitor/enemy (or supporter of)

No one is shilling for Hamas, but it is quite clear who is shilling for the IDF and for Netanyu and is willing to ignore the countless war crimes all being commited in the name of righteousness. Just so there is no confusion, Hamas must be dealt with and brought to justice for all the war crimes they have commited and the suffering they brought upon both Israel and Palestine, as well. Just not in a way that results in 100k + dead palestinians and/or 500k + palestinians made homeless with nowhere to go and live.

There is a reason why protests have been exploding all over North America and Europe, there is a reason why the protests are not isolated to one race, ethnicity or culture. Do you really think all those people protesting against Israel and begging for support for the Palestinians are all secret Hamas supporters? To suggest anyone who supports Palestine must be a Hamas supporters is a sad attempt of provocation. Do you really think Hamas has that much support from democratic countries such as of North America and Europe?

AnsestralRecall posted...

We should sever all financial and military support to Israel.

We should stop funneling guns and missiles to them, sure. But financial aid for food and medicine? We should never blink when providing that to peoples who need it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I meant if their genocide was actually complete, not even leaving orphans.

ZaruenKosai posted...

There is no smear campaign against the Jewish State.

The user you're replying to is a known US apologist and clearly an Israel apologist too. You're not going to get anything out of trying to engage with them.

Wouldn't surprise me if they continue ignoring my question too.

asdf8562 posted...

Free Palestinians =/= Pro Hamas.
Not supporting Israel =/= Pro Hamas
Not blindly supporting Israel =/= antisemitism
Not pretending the Israeli government is angels who don't commit humanitarian crimes =/= hate Jewish people
Jewish civilians =/= Israeli government

The people shilling for Israel in this topic and others aren't capable of this sort of nuance.

DnDer posted...

We should stop funneling guns and missiles to them, sure. But financial aid for food and medicine? We should never blink when providing that to peoples who need it.

The fungibility of money is a hell of a thing.

We should give money to local humanitarian organizations not the government that can wink and rib the US with an elbow when told it's for their poor.

Im against kids getting bombed

creativerealms posted...

I stand against Innocents dying. Which means I am against Hamas and what Israel's military does.

asdf8562 posted... Free Palestinians =/= Pro Hamas.
Not supporting Israel =/= Pro Hamas
Not blindly supporting Israel =/= antisemitism
Not pretending the Israeli government is angels who don't commit humanitarian crimes =/= hate Jewish people
Jewish civilians =/= Israeli government

Yeah this just needs to be stickied at this point.

We had an entire topic where Israel shills were saying that every innocent blown up by the IDF was actually killed by Hamas the moment they flew into a music festival.

AnsestralRecall posted...

The fungibility of money is a hell of a thing.

We should give money to local humanitarian organizations not the government that can wink and rib the US with an elbow when told it's for their poor.

That's fair.

People shouldnt give ANY money to fund a war effort in any way imo. Full stop. Wake the fuck up people in your own communities are dying.

It's not surprising for those on the left to be sympathetic towards an oppressed group.

'That means you hate Israel!' Is just dishonest spin.

DnDer posted...

You're kidding, right?

It was a direct quote from the video. Thats the argument the racist bigot gave for her position. That Israel only wants peace but needs to defend itself from Gaza. Right or wrong, thats her opinion.

Turns out being able to translate the entire video is much more effective than reliance on tik tok to do it for you.

VampireCoyote posted...

People shouldnt give ANY money to fund a war effort in any way imo. Full stop. Wake the fuck up people in your own communities are dying.

The people who advocate for not sending aid abroad are often the people most opposed to spending money to help people at home.

The people on the left siding with Hamas (yes they exist) are hurting the reputation of the whole left and giving rightwingers ammo against us. Fortunately most people on the left are not doing something that stupid.

Dark_Arbron posted...

The user you're replying to is a known US apologist and clearly an Israel apologist too. You're not going to get anything out of trying to engage with them.

Wouldn't surprise me if they continue ignoring my question too.

I know, i have engaged with them countless times, we go round and round in circles as they continue to ignore everything and than fall back to the same rhetoric that was just proved wrong multiple times by myself and many others..

another user does the same with "but hamas" excusing everything Israel does against Palestine.
because hamas does it , to them that means israel has free reign to inflict as much damage as they can/want.

the only restraint israel has is that they didnt just use a nuke and burn it all to the ground.... or anything that would be impossible for other countries to ignore, they have crossed the line, spat on the line, they have mocked the line, but they still kept the line intact enough that their allies can still go along with the ruse, just barely.

I hardly call the barebones minimum restraint though, and thats for now, i assume the worse is yet to come if they go through with the major ground assault... though the delay does seem to be giving me hope that something is happening behind the scenes, maybe Biden is trying to talk Israel out of it.

While getting through to the IDF shills might be a lost cause, I can at least try and inform others that are reading through the topic. I also didn't appreciate them calling anyone who supports the Innocent Palestinians as Hamas Supporters. Such a dirty tactic to try and discredit people from criticizing the IDF/Netanyu.

IdiotMachine posted...

Lots of anti-Israel, pro-Palestine (and some pro-Hamas) protests in major cities, and now even Greta Thunberg is advocating for a free Palestine / Gaza. I would have never saw that coming.

yes the Greta thing surprised me.

its like the left is starting to do the thing the right has been doing for decades, which is to automatically support the opposite of what the other side does.

its gonna be awkward when the right supports say, world peace (never gonna happen, I know) and Greta, Tlaib, Omar and the like go like fuck no

ai123 posted...

The people who advocate for not sending aid abroad are often the people most opposed to spending money to help people at home.

UBI and state funded medical care should be implemented and that should be the bare minimum expected of our government.

The_shibe posted...

ts like the left is starting to do the thing the right has been doing for decades, which is to automatically support the opposite of what the other side does.

that is not at all what is happening, the left is not opposing Israel because the right supports israel, the left is opposing israel for the same reaosn the left opposes russia, they are being run by a corrupt fascist regime trying to wipe out a population and commiting countless war crimes and atrocities while doing so.

The left supports Palestine because they are innocet civilians caught up in the crossfire of a war between two power hungry fascists. The left supports Palestine, because they support peace. Supporting Palestine does not equal support for Hamas, it seems I have to type this after every post because otherwise the IDF shills will jump right on that accusation immediately if I don't.

Nothing has changed in that regard, the right still still hates everything and wants to destroy it all and still cares for nothing but bloodlust and revenge, the left still wants peace and equal rights and for people to be treated humanely.

the positions haven't changed,

The_shibe posted...

yes the Greta thing surprised me.

its like the left is starting to do the thing the right has been doing for decades, which is to automatically support the opposite of what the other side does.

its gonna be awkward when the right supports say, world peace (never gonna happen, I know) and Greta, Tlaib, Omar and the like go like fuck no

Why does it surprise you that Greta is against the ongoing genocide of Palestinians?

That's all she said and people are going off about how she's antisemitic and anyone who would ever agree with anything she says is a terrorist.

Someone posted "Hamas doesn't" in response to her saying "I stand with Palestine" and it's like okay? She didn't say "Hamas" and Israel clearly doesn't stand with Palestinians either, so... what? Should no one stand with the civilians?

Israel has a right to exist. Israel does not have a right to expand its borders. Israel does not have a right to bomb innocent people. Hamas holds the Palestinians hostage. If you speak up against them you get shot.

Intro2Logic posted...

Anti-Semitism is not at odds with support for Israel! Jewish people and the Israeli government are separate categories and conflating the two is a mistake. White nationalists are entirely happy to give them an ethno-state.

Not necessarily, no, but in addition to my last post you also have to factor in that these current American conservatives are one of the most reactionary political movements that weve ever seen.

Im always saying this but it bears repeating swindling the conservative base is a literal industry worth billions in revenue. The Republican party itself exists less as a governing body and more as a vehicle to pick their constituents pockets clean.

To make the point bluntly, if the Biden administration is supporting Israel, the right will eventually take the opposite stance because thats how the business model works.

It's just so fucking stupid how much some Americans defend Israel. It's like how so many have strong opinions in support of the British royal family.

Bullshit happens on the other side of oceans, but god damn it they know what side the US government backs, so they need to love that side too. Which is funny because a lot of those same people want nothing to fucking do with the US government when it comes to matters within our own fucking borders.

hockeybub89 posted...

It's just so fucking stupid how much some Americans defend Israel.

Yeah, god forbid wed want our friends and family to be safe from fucking terrorists. Damn, what a stupid idea that is.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Yeah, god forbid wed want our friends and family to be safe from fucking terrorists. Damn, what a stupid idea that is.

Man, I dont mean to throw shade at you, but for someone thats in his late 30's/early 40's, you have the black and white logic of a child. All this time you dont seem to understand the nuances behind peoples stances on the whole situation or you just dont want to.

Israel is known to be committing human rights violations and state-sponsored segregation. Responding with terrorist attacks is obviously the wrong response but Israeli leadership is more interested in giving themselves the justification to raze the Palestinians to dust than break the cycle. Their treatment of that segment of the population is spurring radical behavior from the opposition and they have the power to put an end to it by treating Palestine with dignity.

DnDer posted...

Horseshoe theory is horseshit.

It's true until you get to extremism. The left doesn't have anything to compare to literal Nazism on the part of the right. But you absolutely have "I'm always right, you're always wrong" or "I want everything my way with no second opinions" types on both sides who have more in common with each other than they do with anyone closer to the middle.

I'm very, very liberal and am not against Israel, but I might be somewhat of an anomaly because I feel obligated to support them due to being a Christian.

FortuneCookie posted...

"I'm always right, you're always wrong" or "I want everything my way with no second opinions" types

Neither of those require extremism.

GrandConjuraton posted...

I'm very, very liberal and am not against Israel, but I might be somewhat of an anomaly because I feel obligated to support them due to being a Christian.

Well you're wrong. Stop supporting Israel.

GrandConjuraton posted...

I'm very, very liberal and am not against Israel, but I might be somewhat of an anomaly because I feel obligated to support them due to being a Christian.

The fact it's the holy land is immaterial to the unjust acts of man that claim dominion over it. I respect what you're saying but the Israeli leadership is absolutely deserving of criticism.

creativerealms posted...

The people on the left siding with Hamas (yes they exist) are hurting the reputation of the whole left and giving rightwingers ammo against us. Fortunately most people on the left are not doing something that stupid.

When have rightwingers ever needed "ammo"? Right wingers call leftists America-hating commies regardless.

Chicken posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/9/2/AAfg3pAAE6Wo.jpg

literally shut the fuck up

Seconded, though purely for being an insufferably pompous arse on the gaming boards, as thats where the bulk of my grievances with the person youre calling out happen to lie.

Solid_Sonic posted...

Israel is known to be committing human rights violations and state-sponsored segregation. Responding with terrorist attacks is obviously the wrong response but Israeli leadership is more interested in giving themselves the justification to raze the Palestinians to dust than break the cycle. Their treatment of that segment of the population is spurring radical behavior from the opposition and they have the power to put an end to it by treating Palestine with dignity.

Eh, it is just easier to raze Palestine and take over the management. People will forget about it in a couple years. Works for everyone else. It isn't like anyone is talking about free Hong Kong or Tibet anymore

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

Yeah, god forbid wed want our friends and family to be safe from fucking terrorists. Damn, what a stupid idea that is.

But not safe from all the terrorists, since you only hate Hamas, but not also Bibi and the IDF.

America funds terrorists and fascists around the world, but as long as they have state-backing and murder people "humanely", you don't give a fuck.

FortuneCookie posted...

It's true until you get to extremism. The left doesn't have anything to compare to literal Nazism on the part of the right. But you absolutely have "I'm always right, you're always wrong" or "I want everything my way with no second opinions" types on both sides who have more in common with each other than they do with anyone closer to the middle.

"I want emancipation for all my way, no second opinions" and "I want genocide and oppresion my way, no second opinions" being similar is an insane take.

ai123 posted...

The people who advocate for not sending aid abroad are often the people most opposed to spending money to help people at home.

Lets keep reminding them of that.

DragonClaw01 posted...

Eh, it is just easier to raze Palestine and take over the management. People will forget about it in a couple years. Works for everyone else. It isn't like anyone is talking about free Hong Kong or Tibet anymore

Well I'm from Hong Kong so that'll never really be off my mind.