Current Events > Police in Ohio fatally shot a pregnant shoplifting suspect

(+) Yeah! (+)

TheOtherMike posted...

"Defending yourself" from an oncoming vehicle is called getting out of its way. Shooting the driver just creates an uncontrolled vehicle that's still barreling towards you with dead weight on the accelerator.

In both situations, there's little regard for someone else's life. The shot person had just as little regard as the living person. In the shot person's case, they weren't as much of a threat.

Slayer_22 posted...

In both situations, there's little regard for someone else's life. The shot person had just as little regard as the living person. In the shot person's case, they weren't as much of a threat.

I'm sorry, are you saying that the guy with a handheld device that releases crazy fast undodgable projectiles that immediately tear through flesh and bones was less of a threat than the lady with an easily side stepped car?

Gremlynn posted...

I'm sorry, are you saying that the guy with a handheld device that releases crazy fast undodgable projectiles that immediately tear through flesh and bones was less of a threat than the lady with an easily side stepped car?

Yes. Because he acted in self defense, she acted with intent to murder with no provocation.

Slayer_22 posted...

Yes. Because he acted in self defense, she acted with intent to murder with no provocation.

I keep forgetting you live in this fantasy world where the cop is fucking quickdraw mcgraw and doesn't already have his gun drawn like cops ALWAYS do.

If they had time to draw a holstered firearm, they had time to get out of the way of the car. If they had their gun drawn, then they were escalating the situation with undue aggression toward someone suspected of shoplifting.

Yeah, they should have moved out of the way and let the person willing to commit murder off. You know, for everyone's safety. Let the attempted murderer go home, get their license plate...job well done, ya know?

revving the engine is attempted murder.

pointing a gun at somebody is just chill homie no bigs.

Tenlaar posted...

that is the result

Every other developed nation we call our peers proves how absolutely wrong you are.

Tenlaar posted...

Until you can actually show the cops began this encounter with guns drawn and ready to fire youre just imagining the worst case scenario out of anti-police bias.

Until you can show she accelerated first, you're just imagining the worst case scenario out of racism.

Oh Im sorry, were we talking about something that happened in Norway?

DnDer posted...

Until you can show she accelerated first, you're just imagining the worst case scenario out of racism.

see this is actually really funny because the story to make the cop look less like a fuckin idiot just makes it even worse.

Stepping infront of a moving car is dumb af, and cops aren't dumb af so he had to have stepped infront while she was stationary.... so the car was starting from a stopped position... drastically reducing how fast it could have been moving towards him?

Slayer_22 posted...

Yes. Because he acted in self defense, she acted with intent to murder with no provocation.

He did not act in self defense because he put himself in that situation. Literally could have sidestepped.

If you want to stretch the definition of self defense that badly, you could just as easily argue that she was acting in self defense because a gang of armed thugs was likely to shoot her down, and did.

SwayM posted...

Im deadly terrified of tigers so I booked a trip to Nepal, got lost in the wilderness and lathered myself in BBQ sauce. And you have no ability to understand how your own actions got you in that situation.

"Black woman was asking for it," is a wild take.

No one was in any danger until the cops threatened her life.

SwayM posted...

How are you incapable of understanding that shes putting

Nope. How are you incapable of understanding the cops created the deadly situation first with their escalating actions?

If someone dies at the police's hands, it's always the police's fault. That's the power dynamic we've allowed to be invested in them, and it's about damn time we hold them to that standard. Our any standard.

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Where are you finding all this stuff thats not mentioned anywhere?

Because she was shoplifting. And nothing life-threatening or remotely dangerous happened until the cops started doing cop things.

I'm getting 4 from adding 2 and 2 together.

SwayM posted...

But yall suggesting the police just let her go are f***ing on one

Hey did you hear police just let you go if you steal some s***? Im just gonna resist and run every single time.

Stop lying. No one's said that at all.

Zikten posted...

Does anyone know how far alone pregnant she was? Did the cops know she was pregnant? In some situations, if you kill a pregnant woman you get charged with murdering the baby

Like cops will ever get charged with a crime, let alone a crime made to punish women for having bodily autonomy.

Nemu posted...

Unless it comes out that this is a lying cop coverup

There's about an 80% or better chance of that.

Tenlaar posted...

When are those pesky cops just going to stop trying to arrest people for crimes!?

Literally zero people suggesting that. You stop lying, too.

Gremlynn posted...

revving the engine is attempted murder.

pointing a gun at somebody is just chill homie no bigs.

So she only revved her engine now? That's the story you're going with?

Slayer_22 posted...

So she only revved her engine now? That's the story you're going with?

this is hilarious coming from the guy who's interpretation of events is this beat cop out here busting out his gunkata skills.

Have the cops released the video yet?

A_Good_Boy posted...

Have the cops released the video yet?

i imagine not if nobody has posted it here yet.

can't imagine why they would stall on showing the public this video that clearly shows everything happened according to their official statement /s

Gremlynn posted...

i imagine not if nobody has posted it here yet.

can't imagine why they would stall on showing the public this video that clearly shows everything happened according to their official statement /s

The longer they hesitate then the more you know that the cops fucked up here. Whenever the cam exonerates them they release that shit within the hour as well as release statements letting you know how good of boys they are. They only drag it out when they fuck up immensely.

apparently the cops are showing the video to the family of the woman and then releasing it.

from the articles provided itt it seems like self defense. cops murder people sometimes but this doesn't seem like one of those times

Slayer_22 posted...

Yes. Because he acted in self defense, she acted with intent to murder with no provocation.

Had his gun out. Still "feared for his life." That's a familiar refrain.

Slayer_22 posted...

Yeah, they should have moved out of the way and let the person willing to commit murder off. You know, for everyone's safety. Let the attempted murderer go home, get their license plate...job well done, ya know?

Absolute and abject failure to understand the situation. But a perfect opportunity to victim blame and lionize the executioners.

I guess that's what I can expect from you after this many posts

Tenlaar posted...

Oh Im sorry, were we talking about something that happened in Norway?

If we want to pretend like we're part of the first world, let alone its leader, we should fucking act like it once in a while, instead of letting countries like Norway be better than us at... almost everything, but especially policing.

A_Good_Boy posted...

The longer they hesitate then the more you know that the cops fucked up here. Whenever the cam exonerates them they release that shit within the hour as well as release statements letting you know how good of boys they are. They only drag it out when they fuck up immensely.

"It has to be redacted!"

Bitch, please. I know of people who have faster turn-around editing a 4-hour video stream into an actual play for their Patreon than these cops will ever manage for the flimsy regulatory standards they need to meet before releasing the video.

You're 100% right about what every day of delay implies in their inability or unwillingness to release the video.

Why are there people in this topic who literally encourage crime and get a temper tantrum if someone suggest no one should commit a crime? Maybe all of you live in the Bay Area because crimes go unpunished here and criminals get an apology from cops, the DA office of many cities and a $25 Mcdonalds gift certificate when the cops accidentally arrest criminals

andel posted...

apparently the cops are showing the video to the family of the woman and then releasing it.

from the articles provided itt it seems like self defense. cops murder people sometimes but this doesn't seem like one of those times

Does the baby not count? They killed the baby and thr baby had committed no crime

Gremlynn posted...

i imagine not if nobody has posted it here yet.

can't imagine why they would stall on showing the public this video that clearly shows everything happened according to their official statement /s

Theres a bunch of Ohio laws theyre following, and then have to show the family the video first.

Also, what is more likely? She was deliberately trying to kill a cop with her car or she was just panicking and trying to escape?

Cops don't shoot people because they're breaking the law.

Cops shoot people because they DARE to challenge them/not immediately comply with mixed messaged orders

TheOtherMike posted...

Literally no one is suggesting that.

"Oh shit, they showed up at my door because they had my license plate! Now I have shoplifting and resisting arrest charges."

Are you resisting if they never attempt to arrest you because they just let you go?

TheOtherMike posted...

Literally no one is suggesting that.

Literally you, and many others have been doing it this whole topic. Heres one example of you saying it.

TheOtherMike posted...

But the officers aren't putting everyone at risk by shooting at a moving vehicle?

Again, she's only a "risk" because of police escalation. If they took down her plate number and apprehended her at home, there's no risk to anyone. This is the exact reason non-shit municipalities don't get involved in high speed chases unless they know the suspect is likely to harm someone, and not just because they're being pursued. It's like you have no awareness of risk assessment.

And none of this has anything to do with the fact that stepping in front of a suspects' vehicle is an incredibly stupid thing for any cop to do.

So youre completely full of shit.

"Take down the info available and put our a warrant so you can arrest at a time and place safer for everybody, including the officers, instead of creating a life or death situation for yourself and others over insured merchandise, is LITERALLY the exact same thing as just letting people get away with shit!"

Gremlynn posted...

"Take down the info available and put our a warrant so you can arrest at a time and place safer for everybody, including the officers, instead of creating a life or death situation for yourself and others over insured merchandise, is LITERALLY the exact same thing as just letting people get away with shit!"

Including a would-be murderer. Gotta make sure those murderers are safe!

Slayer_22 posted...

Including a would-be murderer. Gotta make sure those murderers are safe!

You keep talking about people "making shit up" and keep calling her a murderer.

Literally making shit up.

Gremlynn posted...

You keep talking about people "making shit up" and keep calling her a murderer.

Literally making shit up.

Because y'all are. Attempted murder = would-be murderer.

But wait, are you admitting to making stuff up, or...?

It's not "Attempted murder" when a gun is pointed at you.

Gremlynn posted...

It's not "Attempted murder" when a gun is pointed at you.

Alright, we're back to making up stuff. Gotcha.

Well, what were they supposed to do? She had 40 piece of C4 attached to her chest and was pointing a mini-gun at them???

there are TWO possibilities with the gun.

1: the cop walked infront of the car with his pistol holstered, non-threateningly, and THEN executed a perfect quickdraw single killshot while sidestepping out of the way of a moving vehicle.

2: the cop already had his gun drawn as he used his body to block the vehicle's exit.

So it's been 2 days since it hit AP and they still refuse to release the cams? The cop 100% just gunned her down without justification.

Gremlynn posted...

there are TWO possibilities with the gun.

1: the cop walked infront of the car with his pistol holstered, non-threateningly, and THEN executed a perfect quickdraw single killshot while sidestepping out of the way of a moving vehicle.

2: the cop already had his gun drawn as he used his body to block the vehicle's exit.

and to clarify, acknowledging that one or the other of these two circumstances HAS to be what happened and that the one that doesn't involve the officer being an action hero and instead just behaving how every video of cops approaching a suspect in a vehicle has shown them acting in the past is far more likely to have been what occurred is not "making shit up"

Lets walk through this absolutely foolish thought of just letting her go and trying to get her later. The only thing they would have is a license plate. Which theres no guarantees it belongs to the woman in question.

Lets say it does, and follow this ridiculous bullshit hypothetical. Also ignoring how incompetent is to let a person go who is actively resisting arrest, behaving recklessly, dangerously and attempting to use her vehicle as a weapon. Ignoring all that.

Read the fucking article. Shes got 2 more innocent children at home. What makes the home a more safe place again?

Because shes resisted arrest and jeopardized not just her safety, the officers, but her unborn babies as well in that parking lot. But once shes at home shes going to make all the correct decisions and the lives of at least 2 more kids (assuming theres no one else in the home) will be completely safe too?

You know you actually havent thought this through at all. I mean the complete absence of thought has been apparent since the very beginning of this nonsense thread.

None of this matters. Hypotheticals go nowhere. Those kids lost their mother when she made her choices. Dont resist arrest. Dont use your vehicle to assault an officer. Holy shit this actually had to be said out loud in this topic. Give your fucking heads a shake.

SwayM posted...

Lets walk through this absolutely foolish thought of just letting her go and trying to get her later. The only thing they would have is a license plate. Which theres no guarantees it belongs to the woman in question.

Lets say it does, and follow this ridiculous bullshit hypothetical. Also ignoring how incompetent is to let a person go who is actively resisting arrest, behaving recklessly, dangerously and attempting to use her vehicle as a weapon. Ignoring all that.

Read the fucking article. Shes got 2 more innocent children at home. What makes the home a more safe place again?

Because shes resisted arrest and jeopardized not just her safety, the officers, but her unborn babies as well in that parking lot. But once shes at home shes going to make all the correct decisions and the lives of at least 2 more kids (assuming theres no one else in the home) will be completely safe too?

You know you actually havent thought this through at all. I mean the complete absence of thought has been apparent since the very beginning of this nonsense thread.

None of this matters. Hypotheticals go nowhere. Those kids lost their mother when she made her choices. Dont resist arrest. Dont use your vehicle to assault an officer. Holy shit this actually had to be said out loud in this topic. Give your fucking heads a shake.

NONE of what you describe happens without the initial threat of death from guns being drawn.

And I'd like to come back to the fact that she was an ALLEGED shoplifter. Perhaps after the incident it was confirmed that she absolutely stole those bottles in her car, but BEFORE cops ran out there and pointed guns? ALLEGED.

This is not a hypothetical. She was ACCUSED of theft, not tried and convicted. The fact that cops had to be alerted to the shoplifting means they did not WITNESS a crime take place. They were told "some people just stole stuff!" and ran out into the parking lot and drew guns on somebody that might have been one of the people the clerk was talking about.

None of what I describe happens if the women makes correct choices and submits to a lawful arrest.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fresh_pursuit

Learn what fresh pursuit is. Its clear youre talking out of your ass and you have no idea how any of this works.

Police have reasonable and probable grounds that this woman stole based on eye witness accounts. They attempt to question and detain this woman, who now at this point to the isnt just accused of theft now. Shes added resisting arrest and assault with a deadly weapon to her charges as well.

If she had made better choices she could be alive today to face that first charge.

SwayM posted...

None of what I describe happens if the women makes correct choices and submits to a lawful arrest.

always with the "cops can panic and draw their gun over any and every interaction because they always fear for their life, but untrained ordinary citizens are expected to remain calm and rational with a gun pointed at them"

Ignoring the bulk of my post because you dont have a leg to stand on?

Here, let me respond to the one nonsense point you made by just quoting myself earlier in this topic.

SwayM posted...

ITT: the worst internet lawyering Ive ever seen

Well your Honour, my client didnt know how to surrender to officers, given more than enough attempts to do so.

My client has never been to jail before. So it would be unreasonable for them to have to adapt to that situation based on the consequences of their actions.

NOBODY is saying a reasonable attempt should not be made to stop and question her or that the cops did not have that right.

NOBODY is saying that the cops don't have a legal "react to any situation however the fuck i want" card by virtue of being a higher class of citizen (though we ARE arguing against that being ok, because legal and ok are not the same thing, try to keep up)

We are saying going straight to guns drawn on an alleged shoplifter is gross escalation and THAT is the poor decision that turned what could have been a simple questioning of a potentially innocent person into a life or death situation where both sides behaved in a panicked state.

And before you go into "lawl guns already drawn is fanfiction" it's all but standard procedure and the alternative is some fucking action hero shit that while technically possible is considerably less likely. "weapons were drawn at this time and shots fired" would also have likely been stated in the official report if it were true to emphasize that officer's skill and initial attempt at a non-violent resolution. The time weapons were drawn is conveniently omitted from the official report. Until video evidence proves otherwise (and i highly doubt it will) the LOGICAL assumption is that the cops approached the vehicle with weapons drawn.

In this scenario, the cop is allowed to panic and fear for his life the moment a confrontation is about to begin because the law regards his life as inherently more valuable than ours.

The suspect, remember that word SUSPECT, not criminal, because at the time of initially having a gun pointed at her she has not been found guilty of a crime, is not allowed to panic and fear for her life with a gun pointed at her.

This situation happened because of a militarized police force taught to view the general public as an imminent threat at all times.

ScazarMeltex posted...

This is why when you see someone shoplifting you keep your fucking mouth shut. The only time you should ever call the cops on anyone is if they are direct threat to yours or someone else's life.

Are you kidding me? Store managers get off to this sort of thing. This was probably best case scenario for those psychopaths. "HOW... DAAAAAARRRRRRRREEEEEEE SHE STEEEEEAAAAAAALLLLLLL FROM MYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY... STORE!

Was that Dead Rising reference? Lmao that store owner guy always stood out to me

The important thing is that this evil criminal was put to justice. Imagine what horrors would have unfolded if those couple bottles of alcohol weren't paid for.

WaterLink posted...

Was that Dead Rising reference? Lmao that store owner guy always stood out to me

Dude. Fly Routine playing in the background too, that game was so fucking good. 1, 2, and OTR are some of my favorite comfort food games of all time.

3 and 4 though...ugh.

SwayM posted...

Literally you, and many others have been doing it this whole topic. Heres one example of you saying it.

That is not saying that they should "just let her go." That is saying to apprehend her at a later time. This is clearly apparent to readers who aren't arguing in bad faith and/or aren't illiterate clowns.

TheOtherMike posted...

That is not saying that they should "just let her go." That is saying to apprehend her at a later time. This is clearly apparent to readers who aren't arguing in bad faith and/or aren't illiterate clowns.

They should do this to everyone.

"Oh, you just murdered someone? Get his license plate, don't stop him. We'll get him at a later time."

"Someone just attempted a hit and run? It's alright, get their plate, arrest them at a later time."

"Someone just robbed a bank? Damn, alright, let them go. Then we can get their plates and hope they're using the same car and catch them at a later time."

This is the police you guys want?

Slayer_22 posted...

They should do this to everyone.

"Oh, you just murdered someone? Get his license plate, don't stop him. We'll get him at a later time."

"Someone just attempted a hit and run? It's alright, get their plate, arrest them at a later time."

"Someone just robbed a bank? Damn, alright, let them go. Then we can get their plates and hope they're using the same car and catch them at a later time."

This is the police you guys want?

Reductio ad absurdum. Can you try responding in good faith and acknowledge that shoplifting and murder aren't of similar severity?