Current Events > Police in Ohio fatally shot a pregnant shoplifting suspect

(+) Yeah! (+)

maxpkmf posted...

Things happen so fast. Officer saved everyone in that parking lot from being hurt. Shoplifter turned their car into a weapon and would run over anyone in that instance.

I too think killing people over theoretical crimes that might happen is a great way to help society.

No wait I don't think that at all.

SwayM posted...

Read the post directly above yours

Absolutely no common sense here.

I agree, there's no common sense in assuming she turned into an animal who would start running people over for shits and giggles

Tenlaar posted...

By your reasoning any attempt at an arrest is causing a fight or flight situation and thus shouldnt be done.

If a suspect is in a vehicle, yes. I 100% advocate for "arrest them at home later" in every situation that could lead to high speed chases

Tyranthraxus posted...

I too think killing people over theoretical crimes that might happen is a great way to help society.

No wait I don't think that at all.

Not theoretical. It was happening. Using a car as a deadly weapon.

maxpkmf posted...

Not theoretical. It was happening. Using a car as a deadly weapon.

No the theoretical part is the people she "would run over"

You don't know what path she was intending to take or how many people were around. And pure coincidence I'm sure you don't bother to mention people other than the perpetrator who might have been injured by police gunfire or other things.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/houston-police-officers
-hit-kill-pedestrian-sidewalk-vehicle-pursuit-rcna7740

Do you think that guy or his family give two shits about why the police were chasing the perp?

Tyranthraxus posted...

No the theoretical part is the people she "would run over"

You don't know what path she was intending to take or how many people were around. And pure coincidence I'm sure you don't bother to mention people other than the perpetrator who might have been injured by police gunfire or other things.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/houston-police-officers
-hit-kill-pedestrian-sidewalk-vehicle-pursuit-rcna7740

Do you think that guy or his family give two shits about why the police were chasing the perp?

I didnt read the houston story but yeah if the police injure bystanders the officers should be held accountable. Did they hurt anyone else in the ohio story? If not it's whataboutism. Im just taking the story at face value. Do we need police reform yes. But also dont try to run people over if you get confronted for breaking the law.

maxpkmf posted...

I didnt read the houston story but yeah if the police injure bystanders the officers should be held accountable. Did they hurt anyone else in the ohio story? If not it's whataboutism. Im just taking the story at face value. Do we need police reform yes. But also dont try to run people over if you get confronted for breaking the law.

No this isn't whataboutism because this isn't about what some cops did vs what some other cops did.

This is about you saying it was justified to kill her because she "would have run over anyone" and me pointing out how the police could have also just as easily injured or killed an innocent person in this pointless confrontation.

Tyranthraxus posted...

No this isn't whataboutism because this isn't about what some cops did vs what some other cops did.

This is about you saying it was justified to kill her because she "would have run over anyone" and me pointing out how the police could have also just as easily injured or killed an innocent person in this pointless confrontation.

I never said it was justified. It's a tragedy all around. I personally don't think police should even be allowed to have weapons.

maxpkmf posted...

I personally don't think police should even be allowed to have weapons.

this aint it chief

Tenlaar posted...

I honestly cannot fathom thinking that the cop wouldnt get out of the way of the person hes trying to arrest so its his fault she tried to run him over is some kind of reasonable argument. Its fucking bonkers.

I cannot fathom standing in front of a vehicle in an effort to force the driver to stop as reasonable, if for no other reason than one's own safety. Criticizing the stupid, escalatory, and unnecessarily dangerous behavior of police is perfectly valid, particularly when it results in the death of the suspect (of an originally minor offense) rather than their apprehension.

TaylorHeinicke posted...

this aint it chief

Disarming police is absolutely "it".

TheOtherMike posted...

I cannot fathom standing in front of a vehicle in an effort to force the driver to stop as reasonable

Not what happened. The cop didnt step in front of an already moving car.

Tenlaar posted...

Not what happened.

That's literally exactly what happened. She was already in the vehicle, and he stepped in front of it in an effort to keep her there. Feel free to respond to the rest of the post, too.

TheOtherMike posted...

That's literally exactly what happened. She was already in the vehicle, and he stepped in front of it in an effort to keep her there. Feel free to respond to the rest of the post, too.

Well the officer says they were already in front before she put the car in gear meaning it had to be stationary but who knows if they're telling the truth or not. There's also no mention of how much she accelerated.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Well the officer says they were already in front before she put the car in gear meaning it had to be stationary but who knows if they're telling the truth or not. There's also no mention of how much she accelerated.

Whether it was stationary at the time he stepped in front of it is irrelevant. He stepped in front of it in an effort to make her stay where she was, knowing that if she accelerated he would be put in danger. This is a stupid, stupid thing for any cop to do in any situation, and should not be permitted or encouraged.

TheOtherMike posted...

Whether it was stationary at the time he stepped in front of it is irrelevant. He stepped in front of it in an effort to make her stay where she was, knowing that if she accelerated he would be put in danger. This is a stupid, stupid thing for any cop to do in any situation, and should not be permitted or encouraged.

Heres the thing We EXPECT cops to put themselves in danger. And when they dont, we call them cowards and question their ability to do the job.

pnut027 posted...

Heres the thing We EXPECT cops to put themselves in danger. And when they dont, we call them cowards and question their ability to do the job.

Under no circumstances does anyone think a cop should just stand in front of a car that's trying to run them over that's insanity and not an honest argument.

pnut027 posted...

Heres the thing We EXPECT cops to put themselves in danger. And when they dont, we call them cowards and question their ability to do the job.

it would be nice if they risked their lives to save people, not just to shoot them

pnut027 posted...

Heres the thing We EXPECT cops to put themselves in danger. And when they dont, we call them cowards and question their ability to do the job.

We do not expect cops to put themselves in stupid, senseless danger, nor do we expect cops to put themselves in mortal danger to apprehend a fucking shoplifting suspect. Trying to block a vehicle with their body is a stupid, stupid thing for any cop to do in any situation, and should not be permitted or encouraged.

pnut027 posted...

Heres the thing We EXPECT cops to put themselves in danger. And when they dont, we call them cowards and question their ability to do the job.

We expect them to risk their lives to save school children being shot at by a madman, not stolen booze.

TheOtherMike posted...

That's literally exactly what happened. She was already in the vehicle, and he stepped in front of it in an effort to keep her there. Feel free to respond to the rest of the post, too.

The rest of the post is based on a false premise, which is that the cop stepped in front of the car to force the driver to stop. Trying to arrest somebody cannot be considered escalation on its own.

thronedfire2 posted...

it would be nice if they risked their lives to save people, not just to shoot them

TheOtherMike posted...

We do not expect cops to put themselves in stupid, senseless danger, nor do we expect cops to put themselves in mortal danger to apprehend a fucking shoplifting suspect. Trying to block a vehicle with their body is a stupid, stupid thing for any cop to do in any situation, and should not be permitted or encouraged.

TheLiarParadox posted...

We expect them to risk their lives to save school children being shot at by a madman, not stolen booze.

If she was willing to run a cop down, she wasnt necessarily going to be driving home at a nice Sunday leisurely pace.

Tenlaar posted...

The rest of the post is based on a false premise, which is that the cop stepped in front of the car to force the driver to stop.

Again, that's literally exactly what happened.

One officer went to the drivers side of Youngs car and told her to stop, Belford said, while the other officer moved in front of the vehicle.

Them telling her to stop there is because she was getting ready to try to leave, not because the car was in motion. You are exhibiting poor reading comprehension.

Tenlaar posted...

Them telling her to stop there is because she was getting ready to try to leave, not because the car was in motion.

I never made this distinction, and it's not relevant anyway as I already pointed out. Here, let me quote it for you:

TheOtherMike posted...

Whether it was stationary at the time he stepped in front of it is irrelevant. He stepped in front of it in an effort to make her stay where she was, knowing that if she accelerated he would be put in danger. This is a stupid, stupid thing for any cop to do in any situation, and should not be permitted or encouraged.

Don't cry about reading comprehension while trying to put words in my mouth.

maxpkmf posted...

Shoplifter turned their car into a weapon and would run over anyone in that instance.

Shoplifter didn't do anything dangerous until her life was threatened by cops.

SwayM posted...

Absolutely no common sense here.

Weird that you're the one saying that. What common sense was there to stand in front of a motor vehicle and threaten a woman with death?

Common sense would be not endangering everyone in the parking lot by discharging a firearm at an allegedly moving vehicle for a nonviolent, petty crime that doesn't come with a death sentence.

Tenlaar posted...

By your reasoning any attempt at an arrest is causing a fight or flight situation and thus shouldnt be done.

When you're a POC, that's kind of reality. Every encounter with a cop is a brush with death. You never know when one of them is going to fear for their life, even if you're complying with their "request."

Tenlaar posted...

Trying to arrest somebody cannot be considered escalation on its own.

Trying to arrest someone for a petty theft with the threat of lethal force is very much an escalation. An unacceptable one.

DnDer posted...

Shoplifter didn't do anything dangerous until her life was threatened by cops.

Weird that you're the one saying that. What common sense was there to stand in front of a motor vehicle and threaten a woman with death?

Common sense would be not endangering everyone in the parking lot by discharging a firearm at an allegedly moving vehicle for a nonviolent, petty crime that doesn't come with a death sentence.

When you're a POC, that's kind of reality. Every encounter with a cop is a brush with death. You never know when one of them is going to fear for their life, even if you're complying with their "request."

As a Black man from Baltimore, I avoid the cops at all costs. Im BLM all day.

Step 1 of that is me not committing crimes. Now I get that you dont have to commit a crime to have an encounter with a cop, but thats not what happened here.

Step 2 of that is if I do have an encounter with a cop, Im not going to try to fight them, shoot them or run them over with my car. Unless they come in guns blazing. Because then WERE ALL going out guns blazing.

Darklit_Minuet posted...

Your entire argument hinges on this. It's not attempted murder, it's attempted escape. The cop put himself in the way of the car and refused to move.

Literally watch the steamroller scene from Austin Powers and try to tell me that the guard had no way to get out of the way of the extremely slow moving steamroller

They tried to escape by accelerating into a police officer. That's attempted murder.

DnDer posted...

Trying to arrest someone for a petty theft with the threat of lethal force is very much an escalation. An unacceptable one.

Every arrest is ultimately with the threat of lethal force because if somebody resists arrest to the point of using lethal force themselves, as this woman did, that is the result. Until you can actually show the cops began this encounter with guns drawn and ready to fire youre just imagining the worst case scenario out of anti-police bias.

Slayer_22 posted...

They tried to escape by accelerating into a police officer. That's attempted murder.

But only attempted murder if it's one of those special elites with extra priveleges who's life is more important.

If somebody lets off the brake and starts rolling towards me in the crosswalk i'm not allowed to shoot them over it.

Her safety was compromised

as shes only committed petty theft and instead of just surrendering to the officers, escalates the situation herself. Doesnt respond to any commands and then attempts to drive into one officer.

Might be the most boneheaded, bananas take Ive seen on these boards in a looooooong time.

shes a POC so she has reason to fear for her life with every police interaction

Which to you is justifiable in her choosing to make escalating choices that compromise her own safety.

Im deadly terrified of tigers so I booked a trip to Nepal, got lost in the wilderness and lathered myself in BBQ sauce. And you have no ability to understand how your own actions got you in that situation.

Yes, her actions got her into that situation. That doesn't mean we can't criticize how police handled it, or the factors that contribute to her choosing to flee.

We're taking about police. This is a profession that deals with unruly and sometimes violent people. Crying about how the alleged shoplifter hadled the situation is moot. We expect criminals to act like criminals. There's little we can do at that point about their behaior, and effective methods of crime prevention is somewhat off topic. What we can do is train police to not step in front of suspects' vehicles like morons. We can train police to prioritize capturing a suspect of petty crime alive rather than escalating the situation and endangering bystanders, theselves, and the suspect they're supposed to apprehend. Nothing about the woman or her alleged crime justifies the police acting like idiots.

How are you incapable of understanding that shes putting not just the officers lives in jeopardy but everyone else on the streets and its no good police officer is going to let her continue down this path without intervention.

SwayM posted...

How are you incapable of understanding that shes putting not just the officers lives in jeopardy but everyone else on the streets and its no good police officer is going to let her continue down this path without intervention.

But the officers aren't putting everyone at risk by shooting at a moving vehicle?

Again, she's only a "risk" because of police escalation. If they took down her plate number and apprehended her at home, there's no risk to anyone. This is the exact reason non-shit municipalities don't get involved in high speed chases unless they know the suspect is likely to harm someone, and not just because they're being pursued. It's like you have no awareness of risk assessment.

And none of this has anything to do with the fact that stepping in front of a suspects' vehicle is an incredibly stupid thing for any cop to do.

DnDer posted...

Shoplifter didn't do anything dangerous until her life was threatened by cops.

Where are you finding all this stuff thats not mentioned anywhere?

gatorsPENSbucs posted...

Where are you finding all this stuff thats not mentioned anywhere?

He's presenting what he thinks happened as the truth

SwayM posted...

How are you incapable of understanding that shes putting not just the officers lives in jeopardy but everyone else on the streets and its no good police officer is going to let her continue down this path without intervention.

if the police were never involved how was anyone else's life in jeopardy?

she would have just drove out of there like all other thieves who got away and presumably didn't kill anyone

Gremlynn posted...

But only attempted murder if it's one of those special elites with extra priveleges who's life is more important.

If somebody lets off the brake and starts rolling towards me in the crosswalk i'm not allowed to shoot them over it.

If someone accelerates towards you while attempting to 'escape' from police O believe you should be fully within your right to defend yourself.

Slayer_22 posted...

If someone accelerates towards you while attempting to 'escape' from police O believe you should be fully within your right to defend yourself.

"Defending yourself" from an oncoming vehicle is called getting out of its way. Shooting the driver just creates an uncontrolled vehicle that's still barreling towards you with dead weight on the accelerator.

thronedfire2 posted...

if the police were never involved how was anyone else's life in jeopardy?

she would have just drove out of there like all other thieves who got away and presumably didn't kill anyone

If people werent involved then her crimes wouldnt have escalated to resisting arrest, and assault with a deadly weapon. She made those choices.

But yall suggesting the police just let her go are fucking on one

Hey did you hear police just let you go if you steal some shit? Im just gonna resist and run every single time.

SwayM posted...

But yall suggesting the police just let her go are fucking on one

Literally no one is suggesting that.

SwayM posted...

Hey did you hear police just let you go if you steal some shit? Im just gonna resist and run every single time.

"Oh shit, they showed up at my door because they had my license plate! Now I have shoplifting and resisting arrest charges."

Does anyone know how far alone pregnant she was? Did the cops know she was pregnant? In some situations, if you kill a pregnant woman you get charged with murdering the baby

Zikten posted...

Does anyone know how far alone pregnant she was? Did the cops know she was pregnant? In some situations, if you kill a pregnant woman you get charged with murdering the baby

Why would that at all matter in this situation? Unless it comes out that this is a lying cop coverup, it's not a factor that even comes into play.

Nemu posted...

Why would that at all matter in this situation? Unless it comes out that this is a lying cop coverup, it's not a factor that even comes into play.

It's factor if they could have done de-escalation tactics. I dont believe the cop story until I see the bodycam footage. But...... even if she tried to run over a cop, it's still the cops fault for letting it get to that point. They riled her up. Cops are notorious for sucking at de-escalation

The baby did not deserve to be shot by a cop

How dare those cops rile her up bywhat was it they did againoh yeah, trying to arrest her for stealing stuff. When are those pesky cops just going to stop trying to arrest people for crimes!?

Zikten posted...

Does anyone know how far alone pregnant she was? Did the cops know she was pregnant? In some situations, if you kill a pregnant woman you get charged with murdering the baby

Baby was due in November so presumably, 7 months pregnant

Zikten posted...

it's still the cops fault for letting it get to that point. They riled her up.

I dont think telling someone not to drive away is riling them up.

Cops came at her aggressively, I'm sure. Thats how cops operate.

SwayM posted...

If people werent involved then her crimes wouldnt have escalated to resisting arrest, and assault with a deadly weapon. She made those choices.

But yall suggesting the police just let her go are fucking on one

Hey did you hear police just let you go if you steal some shit? Im just gonna resist and run every single time.

..which is exactly why the cops never need to be involved for petty crimes if their only course of action is killing someone.

how fucking hard would it be to look up the license plate number and get a squad car to her house probably before she even got there?

Zikten posted...

I'm sure.

Oh.