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Board 8 > Contest Stats and Discussion - Part 1373

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MoogleKupo141
10/21/23 11:45:36 PM
#401:


is Duke even in the nostalgia zone

everyone who thought he was cool is elderly or dead at this point

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AxemRedRanger
10/22/23 12:18:23 AM
#402:


I'd guess the percentage of this site who have actually played Duke Nukem 3D or its ports is fairly low.

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HaRRicH
10/22/23 12:20:21 AM
#403:


Duke survives over Altair...I'm guessing Marth > Duke overall.

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_SecretSquirrel
10/22/23 12:24:29 AM
#404:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3278-division-2-round-2-luigi-l-snake-bowser-phoenix

This was a good day to be an L.

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LeonhartFour
10/22/23 1:53:58 AM
#405:


It was great to see Luigi beat Bowser. I wonder if that part holds today. I feel like Liquid doesn't finish first now, but is there a chance that Luigi and Bowser finish 1st and 2nd in whatever order?

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KamikazePotato
10/22/23 4:57:03 AM
#406:


Liquid's most recent performance is from 2010, where he did this:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3745-chaos-division-round-1-altair-vs-liquid-snake

He was a 15 Seed in that contest, meaning he almost missed getting in at all. Dude then skipped 2013 and 2018. For someone who put on such a clinic in 2010, the boost seemed to fade once the MGS fanbase collectively realized he wasn't actually in MGS4

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Kotetsu534
10/22/23 8:58:13 AM
#407:


Vaguely interesting to me that virtually no one's first experience with GTA3 on this website was the Definitive Edition. Suggests that at least some of these remasters and re-makes are overwhelmingly selling to people who played the originals. I'd like to see that tested with the same poll ran for Resident Evil 2 (which, unlike GTAIII/VC, was an actual remake that received strong reviews; it's one of my favourite games of the last few years).

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pjbasis
10/22/23 2:19:19 PM
#408:


KamikazePotato posted...
once the MGS fanbase collectively realized he

Nah I still credit him as THE villain of MGS. You have to assume almost everything was what he would have done besides like the twist-y stuff. Mind you, I haven't played MGS4 since like 2010 so my memory is pretty bad.

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Leonhart4
10/22/23 2:20:15 PM
#409:


Eh, I feel like MGS pretty clearly paints Ocelot as the grand mastermind of the series

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#410
Post #410 was unavailable or deleted.
Leonhart4
10/22/23 3:09:22 PM
#411:


UltimaterializerX posted...
Technically its (ugh) Major Zero.

No, it's not. He wants to be, but the entirety of the present day games is Ocelot outwitting him.

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pjbasis
10/22/23 3:23:21 PM
#412:


Leonhart4 posted...
Eh, I feel like MGS pretty clearly paints Ocelot as the grand mastermind of the series

By the end of the series, sure. But that's not how you're supposed to feel until then.

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LeonhartFour
10/22/23 3:26:27 PM
#413:


pjbasis posted...
By the end of the series, sure. But that's not how you're supposed to feel until then.

Which is why the twist that he is the real mastermind turns out to be so great because Ocelot duped everyone (including himself to a degree) into thinking this was Liquid's plot so that Zero would never suspect it was actually him.

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WarThaNemesis2
10/22/23 3:29:14 PM
#414:


Maybe the secret to Liquid keeping his strength is not being associated with 'modern' MGS, because boy the Ocelot trend points to him getting weaker with every game. If only he had a contest appearance on just Metal Gear Solid maybe he'd have been a threat to kill the Noble Nine before it was a thing.

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LeonhartFour
10/22/23 3:36:42 PM
#415:


technically Liquid is associated with modern MGS because he's Eli in MGSV, but maybe somehow he lucked out again in that people don't associate the punk kid with Liquid. If he's not Cam Clarke shouting chewing the scenery or Ocelot's arm, it's not Liquid, I guess!

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AxemRedRanger
10/22/23 4:16:00 PM
#416:


Liquid probably hasn't maintained his strength, people just don't care enough to even nominate him anymore.

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LeonhartFour
10/22/23 4:22:24 PM
#417:


Yeah, Liquid at least had the foresight to disappear after Altair clowned him.

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#418
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Leonhart4
10/22/23 7:15:28 PM
#419:


UltimaterializerX posted...
It seriously isnt Zero when he created The Patriots? I must be rusty on the lore because I only really recall (ugh) Skull Face getting the better of him.

Ocelot's goal throughout the entirety of the present day is to undermine everything Zero created, and he ultimately succeeds, so he's the true mastermind.

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#420
Post #420 was unavailable or deleted.
Leonhart4
10/22/23 8:44:50 PM
#421:


UltimaterializerX posted...
How does he do it? Not being sarcastic, I dont remember.

"Accidentally" killing Sigint, getting Naomi and Gray Fox to kill Para-Medic, stealing GW from Arsenal Gear, hijacking SOP, among other things.

Really, pretty much everything Snake does in MGS4 is exactly what Ocelot wanted him to do.

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pjbasis
10/22/23 8:44:55 PM
#422:


Is Ocelot even a villain then?

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Leonhart4
10/22/23 8:46:21 PM
#423:


pjbasis posted...
Is Ocelot even a villain then?

I mean, is Zero? I feel like that's kinda the point. I wouldn't go so far as to say Ocelot is a good guy (he does too much evil stuff to be considered a good guy in my book), but he's not an outright villain either.

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KamikazePotato
10/22/23 9:43:16 PM
#424:


Leonhart4 posted...
I mean, is Zero? I feel like that's kinda the point. I wouldn't go so far as to say Ocelot is a good guy (he does too much evil stuff to be considered a good guy in my book), but he's not an outright villain either.
I'll disagree with this. Ocelot is...debatable, but Zero is absolutely a villain. Good intentions don't mean much when you screw up the entire world.

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Leonhart4
10/22/23 9:48:36 PM
#425:


KamikazePotato posted...
I'll disagree with this. Ocelot is...debatable, but Zero is absolutely a villain. Good intentions don't mean much when you screw up the entire world.

In the same sense Big Boss is! Again, I think that's the point. The story of the Patriots is meant to be tragic and bittersweet because two best friends tore the world apart in a war that resulted because neither one understood what The Boss's will actually was.

The great irony is that Solid Snake lived out The Boss's ideals despite never knowing her, and that's why he's the true hero of the series.

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_SecretSquirrel
10/22/23 10:04:37 PM
#426:


Kotetsu534 posted...
Vaguely interesting to me that virtually no one's first experience with GTA3 on this website was the Definitive Edition. Suggests that at least some of these remasters and re-makes are overwhelmingly selling to people who played the originals. I'd like to see that tested with the same poll ran for Resident Evil 2 (which, unlike GTAIII/VC, was an actual remake that received strong reviews; it's one of my favourite games of the last few years).
I'm not sure the GTA Definitive Editions would be the best sample cases for pure remake/remaster strength, seeing as though they are in the running for worst remasters of all time.

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_SecretSquirrel
10/23/23 12:34:54 AM
#427:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3279-division-2-round-2-mario-zelda-mega-man-x-mudkip

So much Nintendo. And you have to believe Zelda would probably be the favorite now.

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Leonhart4
10/23/23 6:50:53 AM
#428:


Or Zelda and Mario would split the vote too much and now MMX would win

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ctesjbuvf
10/23/23 7:06:53 AM
#429:


I would pick Mario over Zelda in a rematch again.

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HaRRicH
10/23/23 9:58:28 AM
#430:


Nintendo already has 70% of the vote there and Mega Man X is still a powerhouse. I fully expect Zelda to do much better against Mario if not potentially beat him again (especially post-TotK), but I don't know how much harder they can wring percentages out of MMX or a Pokemon. Mario's also having a big time right now with the Mario movie, Wonder just now releasing to great reviews, and having two Mario RPG remasters announced for within the next year.

Seems to me Mario and Zelda will squabble while MMX slips into first place.

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_SecretSquirrel
10/23/23 2:41:35 PM
#431:


HaRRicH posted...
but I don't know how much harder they can wring percentages out of MMX or a Pokemon.
X could potentially stay stable here, but I don't know about the staying power of a third gen Pokemon who was in part running on meme power at the time.

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MacArrowny
10/23/23 2:57:28 PM
#432:


Yeah, rerun the poll today and I'd expect Mudkip to get half that number of votes.

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HaRRicH
10/23/23 3:17:19 PM
#433:


So then Mario + Zelda + half of Mudkip still is 60% of the poll, and Mario/Zelda are probably near 50/50 like the last contest. MMX had 29.98% and could remain pretty stable.

Just not a lot of wiggle room to beat MMX in that scenario either...would be close, but I'd still have to favor the Blue Bomber due to Zelda's rise in the ranks.

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LeonhartFour
10/24/23 12:02:36 AM
#434:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/3280-division-3-round-2-samus-nightmare-ganondorf-frog

I feel like everyone goes up at the expense of Nightmare, but the order stays the same. Tears of the Kingdom probably prevents Frog from being able to overtake Ganondorf, unfortunately.

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_SecretSquirrel
10/24/23 1:46:53 AM
#435:


Also, if we interpret Samus vs. Mario 2018 and even Ganondorf improving on his 2004 performance against Link that same year to mean that Nintendo SFF isn't quite as potent or that the Nintendo hierarchy isn't quite as rigid, that's not good news for Frog here.

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pjbasis
10/24/23 12:30:35 PM
#436:


TotK Ganondorf is probably top 5 now

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AxemRedRanger
10/24/23 3:02:18 PM
#437:


I'd say 7th is more likely. Snake was like 6th-ish last time and almost beat Zelda so Dorf would probably need to have gotten at least as strong as that to have a claim on top 5. Which is possible but also asking a lot.

Ganondorf > Mega Man would still be a pretty huge jump, overturning a 60-40 loss, albeit one with Bacondorf involved.

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Leonhart4
10/24/23 3:05:08 PM
#438:


Ganondorf vs. Pikachu: who ya got?

Ganondorf vs. Sonic: Could Heroic Mario finally be correct 15+ years later?

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ctesjbuvf
10/24/23 3:17:07 PM
#439:


Top 5 is Link, Cloud, Mario, Samus and Zelda. Zelda was so close with them last time, and I have trouble seeing Ganondorf going on par with that. Snake is a bit harder to determine imo, he has less reason to be relevant though hopefully rereleases help.

I think 6th is the highest reasonable guess and I wouldn't be comfortable with that. 7th maybe but I wouldn't be surprised if he hadn't gotten noticeably stronger either.

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AxemRedRanger
10/24/23 4:34:18 PM
#440:


Related question: Where did Ganondorf rank in 2018?

Characters I'd have taken over Dorf after that contest/before TotK:
-Noble Nine
-Zelda
-Pikachu
-Tifa
-Mega Man X
-Luigi
-Bowser
-Yoshi

Asking Bacondorf to have been worth like a full 5% downgrade against Mega Man to put Dorf on par with Bowser/Yoshi's 45% on Pikachu/Crono sounds...possible but a little sketchy.

So I'd go with 17th, maybe roughly on par or better than, like, Alucard, Zero, and Kirby (who possibly suffered slight FF). Vivi got 48% on Dorf so he'd probably be 21st or so.

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KamikazePotato
10/24/23 4:35:17 PM
#441:


I really don't think Ganondorf has boosted nearly as much as you guys are implying. Definitely not anywhere near what Zelda went through.

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Leonhart4
10/24/23 4:38:19 PM
#442:


It's hard to estimate where Ganondorf fell in 2018 because his two matches in the second bracket were SFF against Link and Bacondorf against Mega Man. In the main bracket, he put up 52% on Vivi, 56% on Dante, and 59% on Chun-Li, which are good results, but not necessarily elite ones.

I also don't think he'd boost anywhere near the level that Zelda did.

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WarThaNemesis2
10/24/23 5:16:34 PM
#443:


Yeah those three are basically impossible to read anything off of.

Vivi has boosted to the moon since 2010 and the only real match to get a read for him is....Donkey Kong.

Dante didn't look hot, but also wasn't against anybody we have a read on.

Chun-Li looked pretty bad against Spyro but ultimately came out looking great...but also Ryu kinda sucked?

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Leonhart4
10/24/23 9:09:05 PM
#444:


Well, how do we think Vivi would do compared to Squall, Aerith, or Auron? Is he stronger than them now?

Zelda would have beaten Ganondorf pretty handily even without SFF if not.

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KamikazePotato
10/24/23 9:14:25 PM
#445:


Squall, yes. 2018 Aerith, yes. Post-Remake Aerith, maybe. Auron, maybe - I think Vivi could've gotten the same % on Sub-Zero.

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LeonhartFour
10/24/23 9:18:29 PM
#446:


And Snake got 61.5% on Auron.

So if Vivi = Auron, Zelda would've beaten Ganondorf with 60.17%

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KamikazePotato
10/24/23 9:21:02 PM
#447:


Zelda straight-up beat Snake, so sounds about right.

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LeonhartFour
10/24/23 9:26:36 PM
#448:


That would also mean Vivi/Auron gets 52.08% on Squall and 50.59% on Aerith. So yeah, they're still not that far apart.

(Vincent would get 46.12% on Squall and 44.73% on Aerith, so maybe he hasn't dropped quite as far as we originally thought)

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KamikazePotato
10/24/23 9:29:31 PM
#449:


Well, it was common to compare Squall and Sonic back in the day, right?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7372-finals-bracket-2-zelda-vs-sonic
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/poll/7342-division-5-semifinal-squall-vs-zelda

That's, what, 44% on Sonic? Definitely a drop, but he's still strong. Just not a NN breaker.

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LeonhartFour
10/24/23 9:31:13 PM
#450:


Nah, that's 42.11%, unfortunately

this just reminds me what a bummer it was that Sonic got announced for Brawl mid-contest in 2007 because otherwise Squall beats him and now he'll never get that Noble Nine win that Auron got over Sonic just a year later

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