Current Events > Better Call Saul finale (spoiler)

(+) Yeah! (+)

I just finally had the chance to binge the final season of my favorite show.

I'm gonna pretend I didn't, so I can keep the good taste in my mouth I had before season 6th.

*

Annoying how Jimmy going to jail was the only thing that spurred Kim to confess to Howards wife after all of Kims nagging

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

This but no meme

It was okay. It's just that "okay" is kind of a let down after how good BB and BCS was

Same as El Camino. It's not "bad" it's just ok.

I forgot exactly why Saul did this but had he gotten the 11 year sentence the ending would've been better

86 years nuts to that. I think Walt and Jesse both should have gotten worst ends. But Saul... 86 years when he could have gotten 7.

The main conflict for me is that I don't get the whole "act to gain Kim's respect" thing. Like..what?

Kim was the mastermind in the final scheme, which is what led to an innocent man's death. Why does he need her respect? Kim belongs in jail.

There's just something that feels wrong about the idea of a self imposed "punishment".
Basically the idea that even the "consequences" she suffers, are dignified becuase she chose them.

You can argue its all Sauls fault for leading her down that path and corrupting her over the show. Without him shed still be doing great and not getting people killed. Whatever punishment she gets is nothing compared to the fact Saul corrupted her and bought her down to his level.

Nah,just finished it and I thought after all of that it wasn't worth a "look I did good finally" ending.

SHRIKE posted...

You can argue its all Sauls fault for leading her down that path and corrupting her over the show. Without him shed still be doing great and not getting people killed. Whatever punishment she gets is nothing compared to the fact Saul corrupted her and bought her down to his level.

And that argument would be hypocritical.
Through the entire story her character is solidified as being independent. She makes her own choices. And she "saves herself" .
But aww, when she goes out of her way to fuck someone over it turns out that's someone else's fault? Gtfo

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Did he ever prosecute anyone? His whole thing was keeping very guilty people out of prison.

Mr_hulk88 posted...

And that argument would be hypocritical.
Through the entire story her character is solidified as being independent. She makes her own choices. And she "saves herself" .
But aww, when she goes out of her way to fuck someone over it turns out that's someone else's fault? Gtfo

I didnt say that at all. She still has to take responsibility for her own actions. Bit there is also no doubting that Saul corrupts everyone he gets close to. Its not about blame.

SHRIKE posted...

I didnt say that at all. She still has to take responsibility for her own actions. Bit there is also no doubting that Saul corrupts everyone he gets close to. Its not about blame.

? You literally said "you could argue" that she was corrupted by Jimmy, in response to me saying she deserves to be in jail.

Fantastic ending.

I'm conflicted. What I ask myself is whether the conclusion feels inevitable based on Jimmy's characterization across the show, and to that, I am not sure. The ending reevaluates whether Jimmy and Kim "are bad, for each other." Because while their relationship led to the death of Howard and a lie that consumed Kim's life, their break-up allowed Saul Goodman to fully be unleashed. And it is Kim's withholding of relief, her confession, and her physical presence in the courtroom that seems to motivate Jimmy to confess to everything.

The tapes we see Gene rewatching over the course of the series are his tapes he produced as Saul Goodman, not the tapes as Jimmy that he made with Kim. (I guess you could argue the intro shows that Gene is 'rewatching'/reliving the entire series over and over, but the videos played within the show are always his lawyer advertisements.) Gene comes very close to braining a cancer patient during a burglary.

So to me the face-turn hangs almost entirely on Gene's phone call with Kim where he calls her a hypocrite for not confessing to the Howard scam. And I'm not convinced that's enough when his first plan in Saul Gone is to rat her out and destroy her for a pint of ice cream. Now the episode does also introduce the theme of regret and the motif of the time machine, but it rubs me a little raw that all the moments of Jimmy slowly learning the meaning of regretting your actions are withheld from us until this last episode. The conclusion seems to be that if Jimmy had the time machine then he would go back to that night and have a heart-to-heart with his brother. But Chuck never enters Jimmy's mind again from season 5 until the finale so that also feels underdeveloped.

A lot of this kinda goes up to my biggest problem with seasons 5 and 6: there is not enough Jimmy. Way too much screen time on old fat Giancarlo Esposito who is a static character. Too much time on Mike who is static once he kills Ziegler. Too much time on Ignacio given that his story arrives at a dead end and had nothing to do with the titular character since like season 2. I'm not saying the cartel storyline was bad, but in a show called Better Call Saul, it did not have enough baring on the show's central relationship to justify how much focus it got.

Mr_hulk88 posted...

Lol...?

What can I say Im human and not good at expressing how I feel. Let me try and re word it better.

I guess what Im saying is that being corrupted by Saul is a bigger punishment for her than anything the courts could have dished out. She is forever changed due to having him in her life and the grissly outcomes of that, both past, and still to come will haunt her for the rest of her life.

The real fucked up thing is that even though Saul is in prison he has finally repented. His body is imprisoned but his conscience is finally clear. This is the opposite to Kim who is physically free while has to live with what shes done for the rest of her life.

Naw you literally said Jimmy's at fault, in response to me saying she belongs in jail.

Mr_hulk88 posted...

Naw you literally said Jimmy's at fault, in response to me saying she belongs in jail.

Yes I did. I regret saying that and I was wrong. I edited my last post now Ive had a bit more time to think on it.

Oh, just saw the edit

SHRIKE posted...

I guess what Im saying is that being corrupted by Saul is a bigger punishment for her than anything the courts could have dished out.

I mean I'm just not sure she was "corrupted" by Jimmy. All of Jimmy's schemes had a motive. What Kim did to Howard was pure malice.
And the way she further pushed the lie at the guy's memorial was vomit inducing. I wouldnt've given a crap about what Mike said and how it could affect me, there's no way I wouldn't either tell the wife the truth or at the very least not push the lie that got her husband dead in the first place. Jimmy had remorse. She's an evil psycopath. That's why Jimmy's sacrifice felt nonsensical. She fucked him over more than he did her.

Doe posted...

The ending reevaluates whether Jimmy and Kim "are bad, for each other."

This "we're bad for each other" notion felt forced to me. Kim knew right from wrong. And Jimmy liked that about her, clearly.Then, after getting mesa verde to dispose of them 5 seconds later, she becomes literally insane.
The last season shows her repeatedly push for an evil plan against someone for pretty much no reason, until it backfires, and so immediately blames her own decisions on the relationship.

Doe posted...

So to me the face-turn hangs almost entirely on Gene's phone call with Kim where he calls her a hypocrite for not confessing to the Howard scam.

And this is what made it more pathetic.

She needed this comment from to finally realize what's the right thing to do after 6 years?

Doe posted...

A lot of this kinda goes up to my biggest problem with seasons 5 and 6: there is not enough Jimmy. Way too much screen time on old fat Giancarlo Esposito who is a static character. Too much time on Mike who is static once he kills Ziegler. Too much time on Ignacio given that his story arrives at a dead end and had nothing to do with the titular character since like season 2. I'm not saying the cartel storyline was bad, but in a show called Better Call Saul, it did not have enough baring on the show's central relationship to justify how much focus it got.

All this is very similar to how I felt. Jimmy felt way too passive this season for me to even feel him transitioning into Saul.
I mean the entire season he felt like a sheep who went from being doubtful about Kim's idea to just randomly signing up for it. I never saw him even realizing what he was doing and why..?

As for the cartel storyline, Nacho's sacrifice is another one that felt contrived and nonsensical.

Like did he need to die to make them believe "it wasn't the chicken man" ? I don't understand how him dying guaranteed his father being more protected exactly. His suicide was as over the top as Jimmy deciding he wants to go to jail for 86 years instead of 7.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Saul is a defense lawyer

Mr_hulk88 posted...

As for the cartel storyline, Nacho's sacrifice is another one that felt contrived and nonsensical.

Like did he need to die to make them believe "it wasn't the chicken man" ? I don't understand how him dying guaranteed his father being more protected exactly.

Everyone believed Lalo was dead and Nacho killed him

If Nacho was alive then he would hunted by the Cartel and Gus' men to the end of the Earth. Him and his father would never be safe.

Nacho had to die to protect his father, the Salamanca's had to see it and he was willing to do it because he trusted Mike. Mike was the only person in the game who Nacho did trust.

If he had refused to die, gone into hiding or went to the DEA or tried to plot something, Gus would have kidnapped his father and have him tortured to death in the basement.

Bump

Felt that Saul throwing the court case did not make much sense for the character. Overall, the ball was dropped on an otherwise pretty good show but it didn't ruin the show like other finales have.

MonkeyBones23 posted...

Felt that Saul throwing the court case did not make much sense for the character

didn't make sense for Saul

made sense for Jimmy

It sucked for being such a great show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDjMZvYWUdo

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

didn't make sense for Saul

made sense for Jimmy

Nah, it didn't make sense for any human.

It wasn't the best ending, but I'm fine with it for the most part. I think it was rushed though.

Doe posted...

Now the episode does also introduce the theme of regret and the motif of the time machine, but it rubs me a little raw that all the moments of Jimmy slowly learning the meaning of regretting your actions are withheld from us until this last episode. The conclusion seems to be that if Jimmy had the time machine then he would go back to that night and have a heart-to-heart with his brother. But Chuck never enters Jimmy's mind again from season 5 until the finale so that also feels underdeveloped.

Basically my feelings, but put in a much better way than I could have. The ending felt rushed and almost unearned. It feels a bit subpar compared to the great writing this team has done the whole series.

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Part of me wishes he took the short sentence. I would have been totally fine with an unredeemed Jimmy, who's basically been taken over by Saul and willing to scam again once he gets out. Him getting one last sort of "win" over the federal government, who you could say is Saul's biggest "legal" opponent. It would also prove how he will always be "Slippin' Jimmy". I am happy with how Jimmy is well liked by his fellow inmates. It was actually the ending I was expecting out of all the usual fan theories that were floating out there at the time.

Southernfatman posted...

. The ending felt rushed and almost unearned. It feels a bit subpar compared to the great writing this team has done the whole series

Certainly agree with that

Part of me wishes he took the short sentence. I would have been totally fine with an unredeemed Jimmy

I don't equate taking life in prison to be more "redeeming" than taking 7 years though.
I don't see the value in choosing to go to prison for life, when able to go for 7 years. It was contrived and unrealistic.

Mr_hulk88 posted...

I don't equate taking life in prison to be more "redeeming" than taking 7 years though.
I don't see the value in choosing to go to prison for life, when able to go for 7 years. It was contrived and unrealistic.

It was about saving his soul tbh. To quote Mike about the money in season one: "I believe you said something about doing the right thing." He remembers Chuck's advice that it's never too late to change your path, and sees Kim do it, so he realizes he can too.

In the abstract taking 80 years over 7 just for morality sounds unbearable, but Jimmy's life was already joyless by then. There's no burst of color as he grows back into Saul's shoes when negotiating the plea deal. The only color that returns for him is when he shares the cigarette with Kim.

Doe posted...

In the abstract taking 80 years over 7 just for morality sounds unbearable, but Jimmy's life was already joyless by then. There's no burst of color as he grows back into Saul's shoes when negotiating the plea deal. The only color that returns for him is when he shares the cigarette with Kim.

Lol that's very poetic but no, it still doesn't make choosing life in prison make sense. 7 years isn't two weeks or something. It's a whole year, and then 6 more of those.

Again, his decision is presented as some sort of "sacrifice" for Kim. That makes no sense when Kim is the one who not just came up but pushed for the final scheme.

Jimmy does feel responsible for bringing Kim to his level. He is hesitant about the doomsday scam at first because he doesn't like that she's acting like how he does. But ultimately he chooses to be complicit and gets off to it as much as Kim does

Doe posted...

r bringing Kim to his level

I completely understand that's how the show tries to put it across. I'm saying I don't see it.
Kim is an adult. She made the decision and the plan. She pushed it even when Jimmy was reclutant/things got in their way.

Basically you can't just become something you aren't. I don't see Kim becoming something different in season 6 but more like the opposite. She was just a trash person all along.

It was perfect. The entire theme of Breaking Bad's universe is change. It's what the first episode of Breaking Bad highlights. Better Call Saul had characters that believed that people can't change. Jimmy wasn't ever going to throw Kim under the bus, he was just trying to bait her into coming. Him throwing out the reduced sentence was his ultimate victory. He finally proved to good ol' Chuck that people can change.

Jimmy getting a reduced sentence, with the knowledge he would still be slippin' Jimmy would not align with that. He both honored and disproved Chuck at that moment.

And you guys keep presenting the trial of Jimmy being over Howard, but that's not what this trial was about at all. It was Jimmy, finally holding himself accountable for Howard, sure, but also Chuck, and most of all, the entire Breaking Bad universe. The meth empire he helped Walter build hurt many people, thousands of people. He didn't get a life sentence because of Howard, he got it because of that.

Guns_of_Verdun posted...

didn't make sense for Saul

made sense for Jimmy

Saul is just Jimmy cranked to 11. I just don't buy the writing's attempt for moral redemption when the character had not expressed any desire to do so the entire show.

You know, back when the first season came out years ago, I remember that my assumption about what was happening to this character who's not in BB was that she was going to die and that's why Jimmy appeared so lifeless in the Gene sequences in every season's opening. Like, something extreme happened to her because of him.

How things actually turned out years later kinda makes those scenes feel different in retrospect.

PiOverlord posted...

And you guys keep presenting the trial of Jimmy being over Howard, but that's not what this trial was about at all. It was Jimmy, finally holding himself accountable for Howard, sure, but also Chuck, and most of all, the entire Breaking Bad universe. The meth empire he helped Walter build hurt many people, thousands of people. He didn't get a life sentence because of Howard, he got it because of that.

I don't know where you got that idea from. I never said the trial and his decision was because of Howard

Mr_hulk88 posted...

Certainly agree with that

I don't equate taking life in prison to be more "redeeming" than taking 7 years though.
I don't see the value in choosing to go to prison for life, when able to go for 7 years. It was contrived and unrealistic.

Unrepentant might have been a better word to use. And Jimmy took the lengthy sentence because he knew he deserved it for all the crimes he did. Even if they could have done it better, it still fits and isn't totally out of left field. Even if he isn't totally redeemed, it's still admirable in some way that he faced the consequences

Mr_hulk88 posted...

You know, back when the first season came out years ago, I remember that my assumption about what was happening to this character who's not in BB was that she was going to die and that's why Jimmy appeared so lifeless in the Gene sequences in every season's opening. Like, something extreme happened to her because of him.

How things actually turned out years later kinda makes those scenes feel different in retrospect.

I remember the popular theory that she was there the whole time during the Breaking Bad saga. That could have been interesting if done right.

Southernfatman posted...

. And Jimmy took the lengthy sentence because he knew he deserved it for all the crimes he did

Lets be real though, do you feel that's the sentence deserved for his crimes? I honestly don't.

And I think it's very worth noting, Jimmy is notorious for having extreme changes of heart. He probably regretted his decision the next day.

Mr_hulk88 posted...

Lets be real though, do you feel that's the sentence deserved for his crimes? I honestly don't.

And I think it's very worth noting, Jimmy consistantly changes his mind throughout the show. He probably regretted his decision the next day.

He was basically a mob consigliere to a meth kingpin giving advice and such and constantly aided and abetted his criminal organization which was involved in mass drug distribution and murder which included two DEA agents. He helped Walter launder his money. He also helped with poising a child. . Jimmy was totally correct in that without him, Walter White would have been dead or in jail within a month. Without Saul, Walt would have been nothing. This is on top of all the other crimes and scams Jimmy did over the years including the Howard thing.

I feel like he seemed content with his fate in the small scenes of him in prison.

Saul, 100%, deserved to be in prison for life. Saul was not a good person. He was complicit in nearly everything Walter White did.

He didn't go to jail over a guilty conscience, he went to jail to protect Kim. Howard's wife was going to pursue her in civil courts to get some sort of retribution. With Jimmy going to jail for everything he's done, at least one of the people that got Howard killed would get what they deserve. The hope was to satiate Cheryl's need for revenge or justice. Maybe that would be enough so she doesn't put herself through the stress just to punish Kim. We don't get to see if it worked though.

DarkChozoGhost posted...

He didn't go to jail over a guilty conscience, he went to jail to protect Kim.

It was both. During his speech at his trial, he seemed pretty genuine in his regret when talking about his misdeeds especially when he talks about taking away Chuck's malpractice insurance. There's even a little bit of dialogue between Jimmy and Bill Oakley. Bill says that what Jimmy did to Chuck wasn't a crime and Jimmy says it was.