Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 403: Indictment's excitement and incitement.

(+) Yeah! (+)

masterplum posted...

Arent most youth sports mixed gender until post puberty anyways?

This has not been my experience, no. Some teams/leagues are, certainly.

masterplum posted...

Arent most youth sports mixed gender until post puberty anyways?

When I say youth sports I mean 17 and under.

I would like government to stop policing minors when the science has come back as inconclusive. If you care about science this would be your stance. I could see the issue if there was a clear link between trans athletes just dominating the youth sports world. However we don't live in anywhere close to that reality. A handful of athletes doing well out of thousands and thousands is to be expected given population sizes.

So, either you care about the science on this issue or you use science as a shield to have bigoted takes that are just not as bigoted as some people but are still bigoted.

I confront you with the scientific truth and you go 'well there's a few examples.' Yeah, this makes sense with population size.

Like I'm not letting you off the hook here. You're just wrong and unfortunately because of your background you are prone to buying talking points.

masterplum posted...

I was curious about this and looked it up, and on a quick glance it looked like archery was not equal and male categories had stronger world records.

For cultural reasons. There is no technical reason a man should have an advantage over a woman in Archery. Its just the effect of it being male-dominated for so long. I thought about mentioning that but figured it was too much.

Anyway the whole conversation is pointless because A) there are already measures in place for your concerns that work fine, B) a transgender woman whos never been through a testosterone puberty would have no advantage so the youth sport thing is nonsense, C) advantages only exist at a very high level with some people in some sports so obviously blanket bans make no sense and D) there are almost no transgender athletes at those levels to begin with. Also lets not forget that this began with literal genital inspections. Not exactly relevant to performance is it?

I don't know national comparisons, but I know growing up there were men's and women's leagues for basketball/baseball/tennis at all points of school where they were offered (I think fourth grade and up). This also went for the teams played against. Football has a girl practice on the high school team in the off-season, but I don't think she ever played an actual game.

That's just the school-endorsed teams of the biggest sports. If you're talking more like playground-games or PE class, yeah, people were playing together regardless of gender. Not sure about school-endorsed teams for smaller sports.

A high schooler would have gone through puberty.

Younger than that I agree it shouldn't matter much

And genital inspections is a ridiculous strawman. Pediatricians inspect genitals every visit. That it totally normal if they are signing off on it

You do realize the people passing these laws aren't doing them because they care about sports, right?

masterplum posted...

And genital inspections is a ridiculous strawman. Pediatricians inspect genitals every visit. That it totally normal if they are signing off on it

oh that's the strawman, not your unscientific theory that trans athletes are dominating youth sports

lol

Fucking hell Plum.

Not every trans person goes through the puberty of their assigned gender at birth, these days perhaps most young trans people wont.

LightningStrikes posted...

Not every trans person goes through the puberty of their assigned gender at birth, these days perhaps most young trans people wont.

No but you see, that's why they are banning trans youth care so that they can then ban them from the sports.

big brain

LightningStrikes posted...

B) a transgender woman whos never been through a testosterone puberty would have no advantage so the youth sport thing is nonsense

Keep in mind the source plum linked earlier said things like (paraphrasing) "male brains are inherently more competitive and violent and this cannot be changed by hormone therapy" so it's not just about puberty and effects you can actually see with these people.

masterplum posted...

Pediatricians inspect genitals every visit.

I'm sorry but what the fuck?

In regards to archery/shooting, don't men have better hand/eye coordination? I think there's debate as to whether there is something physiological causing this or whether it has to do with conditioning, but I'm pretty sure there's an established difference.

masterplum posted...

Pediatricians inspect genitals every visit.

I think someone needs to give plums' pediatrician a visit...

Kenri posted...

I'm sorry but what the fuck?

Is that not part of a normal physical for you?

You made me check to see of I was crazy

https://kidshealth.org/en/teens/expert-testicles.html#:~:text=A%20testicular%20exam%20can%20make,part%20of%20a%20physical%20exam.

masterplum posted...

Is that not part of a normal physical for you?

No??? Not from any age I can remember, at least. My pediatrician asked one time during puberty but it was optional and I declined and we moved on.

I guess it's possible it happened and I blocked out the memory because this absolutely would have been traumatic for me as a kid??

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the genital exams undergone as adults are adult-specific to check for cancer...not a child thing (unless there's a specific problem that needs examination).

It might have changed in the last decade but it was pretty standard every physical I went to

I've had physicians inspect mine before.

But plum, even setting that aside - are you really ok with that then being reported to the government?

Peace___Frog posted...

I've had physicians inspect mine before.

But plum, even setting that aside - are you really ok with that then being reported to the government?

Hmm

I don't see how it reveals any information they shouldn't already ...

Hmmmmmmmm

If the government should have it already, then why are the genital exams necessary to begin with?

Peace___Frog posted...

If the government should have it already, then why are the genital exams necessary to begin with?

I feel like I need more information about the law that was passed because that does sound unnecessary

Im a libertarian, I just support mandatory genital checks so public bodies can exclude you from sport.

Plum got real quiet about science I see.

SirChris posted...

Plum got real quiet about science I see.

Did you ever post a source?

masterplum posted...

Even if you dont care about competitive balance which I think is a mistake, how do you stop griefers from ruining womens sports? (Because you know Republicans are going to start doing this for no reason other than to be asses)

wait a second

are you suggesting republicans will start transitioning for the sole purpose of "owning the libs"?

on what basis?

I think the suggestion is that they would sign up for womens sports as men, and not do any transitioning. Just say "oh I'm a woman now let me play women's sports so i can be in the locker room with them."

Thorn posted...

wait a second

are you suggesting republicans will start transitioning for the sole purpose of "owning the libs"?

on what basis?

While I am completely against Plum's stupid arguments in this topic, I believe his point is that male trolls would absolutely dress up as women and claim to be women just to own the libs. As shown in the historical documentary, Juwanna Mann.

Peace___Frog posted...

I think the suggestion is that they would sign up for womens sports as men, and not do any transitioning. Just say "oh I'm a woman now let me play women's sports so i can be in the locker room with them."

Supposing this is the case, wouldn't we have already seen this given trans athletes are already allowed to compete in certain sports where the governing bodies have said it's fine?

Mandatory one year HRT before you can compete on the basis that Ive been on HRT a year and Im weak as a kitten now lol

masterplum posted...

Did you ever post a source?

I don't have to prove a negative.

Thorn posted...

Supposing this is the case, wouldn't we have already seen this given trans athletes are already allowed to compete in certain sports where the governing bodies have said it's fine?

As been stated, Trans athletes are still extremely rare. As it starts to happen more you are going to see this become more and more plausible

SirChris posted...

I don't have to prove a negative.

I dont have to argue with hypotheticals?

masterplum posted...

I dont have to argue with hypotheticals?

You are using nothing but hypothetical to in support of a bigoted bill. You crawl to the safety of science but if you had actually a shred of intellectual coherence it would be obvious to you that science does not support these measures against trans youth.

SirChris posted...

You are using nothing but hypothetical to in support of a bigoted bill. You crawl to the safety of science but if you had actually a shred of intellectual coherence it would be obvious to you that science does not support these measures against trans youth.

I literally posted a study with 80 sources

If we're Banning People based on biological advantages how long until we been LeBron James so I can get a shot in the nba?

So if being a trans woman is such an insurmountable advantage, why don't we already see trans women dominating women's sports?

TheRock1525 posted...

If we're Banning People based on biological advantages how long until we been LeBron James so I can get a shot in the nba?

Lebron James should definitely be banned from whatever league someone at your skill level would be competing at.

Doesn't Michael Phelps have a mutated bone structure or something, why are we letting this dude swim?

Not_an_Owl posted...

So if being a trans woman is such an insurmountable advantage, why don't we already see trans women dominating women's sports?

well there was that one swimmer who was dominant in the men's division and then was equally as dominant in the women's division you see!

and a bunch of trans women that never went anywhere special but never ye mind that

and nobody cares about the trans men for Some Odd Reason, stick 'em in with the women so we can complain about them later

AriaOfBolo posted...

and nobody cares about the trans men for Some Odd Reason,

No no, people definitely care. They just lie and say they're trans women who shouldn't be allowed to compete against cis women.

I guess that's what you mean by complain about them later but I just wanna emphasize that it's intentional

https://twitter.com/mjs_dc/status/1644074674127503362?s=46&t=v9nzYLLBIiNYrqldFs9NWQ

We should have had Bernie.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

https://twitter.com/mjs_dc/status/1644074674127503362?s=46&t=v9nzYLLBIiNYrqldFs9NWQ

We should have had Bernie.

What does this "compromise" even compromise on lol

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/06/politics/west-virginia-transgender-sports-ban-enforcement-supreme-court/index.html

7-2 denial of a request to allow WV to enforce their transgender sports ban.

Seems like pretty good news.

SirChris posted...

What does this "compromise" even compromise on lol

"I wanted Pizza for dinner, and he wanted Tacos. I wanted Pepsi, and he wanted coke. So we compromised and got Tacos and coke, but if anyone asks I can say I was totally for getting Pizza."

You guys hear about the TRANS MAFIA triggering all these snowflake Rs by having trans ads for their alcohol? Its pretty hilarious

SirChris posted...

What does this "compromise" even compromise on lol

The problem is it isn't a popular opinion and he doesn't want to get blown out by Trump or desantis campaigning on it

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/4/0/6/AANz_VAAEW6G.png

That was a poll I found looking because I was curious why Biden would flip on this, but I doubt polling has moved that much.

masterplum posted...

The problem is it isn't a popular opinion and he doesn't want to get blown out by Trump or desantis campaigning on it

lol acting like Trump and DeSantis won't run on it anyway. Nobody's going to be like "I was going to vote for Biden, but he wants to let trans people play high school and college sports. So I'm going to vote for Trump." Because those people are already voting for Trump. Anyone who has that strong of an opinion on it is 100% a trump supporter already.