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Current Events > Magnus Carlsen releases official statement against Hans Niemann

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Touch
09/27/22 1:18:08 PM
#51:


Tyranthraxus posted...
He's saying shit like "there's a guy and based on where he's standing this is the piece you have to move" and other nonsense.
Source?

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Touch
09/27/22 1:18:38 PM
#52:


ellis123 posted...
It wasn't a streamer. It was Elon Musk. Hence why it has such legs: the king of the chuds made an original joke and they must now bow down before its majesty while prostrating themselves.

Streamers, on the other hand, went with the "mirrors on ceilings" joke, but by virtue of not having a bunch of incels eating every word they say it didn't have the legs that the anal beads joke had.
My bad. Thanks for clearing it up.

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Srk700
09/27/22 1:22:57 PM
#53:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Anal beads theory was a meme to begin with. It only took off because Elon Musk saw someone saying it as a joke and ran with it.
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Cobra1010
09/27/22 1:24:22 PM
#54:


Simple. Just hold tournaments without audience and streams with like 10 minute lag.

See if he still performs as well.

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PiOverlord
09/27/22 1:38:10 PM
#55:


The only thing we need to do is analyze a great sample of Hans' last x amount of games and see where the computer accuracy of both him and his opponents lie.

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bknight
09/27/22 1:41:31 PM
#56:


Simple, everyone gets a cavity search before every match.
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Mew
09/27/22 1:42:56 PM
#57:


So how did he cheat?

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Tyranthraxus
09/27/22 1:43:18 PM
#58:


Touch posted...
Source?

https://www.npr.org/2022/09/27/1125316142/chess-magnus-carlsen-hans-niemann-cheating

And sorry he didn't say it, it was a different grandmaster backing him up.

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Smashingpmkns
09/27/22 1:44:34 PM
#59:


Accusing someone of cheating without proof is pretty gross. But giving credence to the anal bead rumor is even grosser tbh. Either do a rematch and stomp the dude or stfu

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Touch
09/27/22 1:46:46 PM
#60:


PiOverlord posted...
The only thing we need to do is analyze a great sample of Hans' last x amount of games and see where the computer accuracy of both him and his opponents lie.
That's what I posted in the OP lol. Minus the computer accuracy of opponents part.

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Alteres
09/27/22 1:54:56 PM
#61:


but why anal beads? Why not some kind of bone conduction mic?

those exist and would allow much better communication, if somebody actually gave that much of a fuck

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Touch
09/27/22 1:56:07 PM
#62:


Alteres posted...
but why anal beads? Why not some kind of bone conduction mic?

those exist and would allow much better communication, if somebody actually gave that much of a fuck
Because it was a meme joke that gained traction and has no actual grounds besides people beating a dead horse like ITT lol.

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The-19th-Sparta
09/27/22 2:02:59 PM
#63:


You know this situation is fucking stupid when people are trying to act like they're offended by Magnus' actions and are a part of the chess community yet humor the idea that Hans had anal beads.

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PiOverlord
09/27/22 2:07:49 PM
#64:


Using stockfish, and recreating the game between Magnus and Hans, I should note stockfish rates Magnus at 87.9 and Hans at 92.3% accuracy. Considering top-level chess games can have both players playing at 99%, this makes it appear that Magnus had a mediocre game and Hans was just able to capitalize on Magnus' mistakes.

Now, you could always argue Hans only cheated partially, but again, Magnus' accuracy wasn't anything special, nor was Hans accuracy for that matter. It should be noted that Magnus even blundered at one point (in which Hans did not capitalize fully on) according to Stockfish.

Let me know if anyone would be interested in actually seeing a play-by-play of this. https://www.chess.com/analysis/game/pgn/4hNLFdy2er

This doesn't actually refute Magnus' claims that Hans doesn't cheat. Knowing you are playing against a cheater can have a mental effect on how you see their moves. Any move that seems "unusual" will make you question if they know something you do not. Perhaps the biggest aggravation is that Hans cheated not even 3 years ago (and not the first time ever), and is already allowed back in a major tournament. Regardless if Magnus is correct, I can understand the frustration with feeling like someone has disrespected your profession, and no one seems to really care about that aspect of it. There is some feeling of "Sure, Hans was only caught twice, but did he actually only cheat twice?" that plays a part in this all.

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viewmaster_pi
09/27/22 2:09:01 PM
#65:


Alteres posted...
but why anal beads? Why not some kind of bone conduction mic?

those exist and would allow much better communication, if somebody actually gave that much of a fuck
you just don't understand chess

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Doe
09/27/22 2:16:29 PM
#66:


So sick of amateurs and people who have never played chess trying to "we did it reddit" Hans' career away because their favorite streamer and Elon Musk commented on this scandal.

Magnus chose to play OtB with Hans. It doesn't matter that he claims he almost did not. He chose to. It is absurdly unethical to then complain about losing when there is no evidence Hans has cheated in this game or over the board. Magnus' claims about the game aren't even circumstantial, they're immaterial. Your opponent having a poker face is not evidence of cheating. Hans is an extremely skilled player so him beating a deliberately suboptimal opening you chose is not impossible.


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ultimate_reaver
09/27/22 2:24:43 PM
#67:


let the nerds fight

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gunplagirl
09/27/22 2:42:58 PM
#68:


Keep in mind a professional whose job it is to check games for signs of cheating found nothing out of the ordinary. The time spent on moves, any footage of them and if they looked around, and so on. There was nothing found at all to substantiate proof that any cheating was performed.

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Background_Guy
09/27/22 2:58:55 PM
#69:


They should just start cavity searching players. But if Magnus has no actual evidence of anal shenanigans he should shut up.
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PiOverlord
09/27/22 3:03:23 PM
#70:


Background_Guy posted...
They should just start cavity searching players. But if Magnus has no actual evidence of anal shenanigans he should shut up.
Can y'all shut the fuck up about the anal beads? That's not what Magnus said.

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Tyranthraxus
09/27/22 3:04:05 PM
#71:


Background_Guy posted...
They should just start cavity searching players. But if Magnus has no actual evidence of anal shenanigans he should shut up.
He's got no evidence he's just mad that he lost and used past cheating scandals as an excuse to rage quit mid tournament while pretending like he would have won in a fair match.


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#72
Post #72 was unavailable or deleted.
#73
Post #73 was unavailable or deleted.
PiOverlord
09/27/22 3:05:39 PM
#74:


gunplagirl posted...
Keep in mind a professional whose job it is to check games for signs of cheating found nothing out of the ordinary. The time spent on moves, any footage of them and if they looked around, and so on. There was nothing found at all to substantiate proof that any cheating was performed.
Refer to post 64 for what I found.

We're going to have to examine a wide array of games. Magnus, whom is now a part of chess.com, just recently received a ton of information about Hans that made him think something.

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Master_Kazuya
09/27/22 3:12:48 PM
#75:


I honestly hope the anal beads theory is true. It would be such a legendary way to cheat

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DipDipDiver
09/27/22 3:20:41 PM
#76:


What I'm getting from this is that computers and humans demonstrably do not play chess the same way, and to a high level player a computer-assisted game is as obvious as someone using an aimbot in a FPS
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EmbraceOfDeath
09/27/22 3:24:24 PM
#77:


DipDipDiver posted...
What I'm getting from this is that computers and humans demonstrably do not play chess the same way, and to a high level player a computer-assisted game is as obvious as someone using an aimbot in a FPS
It doesn't make sense though. If computers are the best players, then humans will study how computers play to get better, which will in turn make them play more like computers. One would expect the longer computers exist that play chess, the higher the correlation between human and computer play.

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DipDipDiver
09/27/22 3:26:52 PM
#78:


EmbraceOfDeath posted...
It doesn't make sense though. If computers are the best players, then humans will study how computers play to get better, which will in turn make them play more like computers. One would expect the longer computers exist that play chess, the higher the correlation between human and computer play.
You may think that, but it does not appear to be how it actually works
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ellis123
09/27/22 3:30:00 PM
#79:


DipDipDiver posted...
You may think that, but it does not appear to be how it actually works
It totally does. In fact, the human mind is getting so close to being computer-like that we're soon not going to be able to solve captchas and the majority of our society will collapse.

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Hornezz
09/27/22 3:39:18 PM
#80:


The comments about him seeming not tense or concentrated do seem a bit far fetched though. If you openly accuse someone, you better come with evidence and strong arguments to support your stance. 'Soft evidence' like this only makes the accusation look weaker.

Besides, if I were doing something nefarious that could potentially cost me my career and reputation I'd be more tense than normal if anything. Either way, someone's apparent nervousness (or lack thereof) is no evidence of anything whatsoever. Carlsen should have left that part out of his statement.

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Heavy_D_Forever
09/27/22 3:57:45 PM
#81:


Hornezz posted...
The comments about him seeming not tense or concentrated do seem a bit far fetched though. If you openly accuse someone, you better come with evidence and strong arguments to support your stance. 'Soft evidence' like this only makes the accusation look weaker.

Besides, if I were doing something nefarious that could potentially cost me my career and reputation I'd be more tense than normal if anything. Either way, someone's apparent nervousness (or lack thereof) is no evidence of anything whatsoever. Carlsen should have left that part out of his statement.
Carlsen seems like a petty dick now. If he doesn't have definitive proof that the other guy cheated then why are people OK with him refusing to play against him?

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ellis123
09/27/22 4:02:25 PM
#82:


Heavy_D_Forever posted...
Carlsen seems like a petty dick now. If he doesn't have definitive proof that the other guy cheated then why are people OK with him refusing to play against him?
Because he didn't get a free pass. He forfeited the match... as in he took a loss. His only loss of the day as he made everyone else he came across look like an absolute joke with just how much he made the best chess players in the world look like grade schoolers.

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silverpine
09/27/22 4:06:00 PM
#83:


he should be able to explain his thought process for using those moves and he can't.
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Squall28
09/27/22 4:47:07 PM
#84:


Other GMs think he cheated. Don't care what regular guys think.

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Joelypoely
09/27/22 4:54:13 PM
#85:


I'm generally in the middle on this one. Though for all the people saying he's just a crybaby, it's not that simple. Many times he has lost to up and coming, young and talented GMs and has accepted he was fairly outplayed each time. This kind of action is unpredecented as far as I know.

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Master_Kazuya
09/27/22 5:09:45 PM
#86:


I don't think MC is being just a sore loser on this one. I do agree he's being overly accusatory when what's really needed is a breakdown on how/why he's cheating in chess terms, but I think the context alone is influential. A guy that's admitted to cheating, that also cheats online more than he says, that has a 100% correlation to computers which is significantly above any chess player ever, that's relatively unknown otherwise, suddenly doing the perfect counter to a purposely obscure opening by the current best player in the world to specifically see if the other guy is cheating.

I could see that. It would be like being the best FPS player and your first move is going to the tallest tower and jumping off it and you get sniped in the head on your way down by a guy that you know has used aimbots before.

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EyeWontBeFooled
09/27/22 5:11:49 PM
#87:


MICHALECOLE posted...
I mean, hes speaking so confidently that I am honestly inclined to believe him

I just want to know HOW


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Doe
09/27/22 5:13:33 PM
#88:


Let me guess, many of these games of "100% correlation" are Niemann playing a mainline to a draw

Not to mention comparing Niemann's number to Carlsen's is absurd when Carlsen deliberately plays untheoretical openings to steer games into fundamental play.

I trust Ken Regan over some twitter analyst sorry not sorry

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Touch
09/27/22 5:27:44 PM
#89:


Doe posted...
Let me guess, many of these games of "100% correlation" are Niemann playing a mainline to a draw

Not to mention comparing Niemann's number to Carlsen's is absurd when Carlsen deliberately plays untheoretical openings to steer games into fundamental play.

I trust Ken Regan over some twitter analyst sorry not sorry
For whatever reason the original thread I saw this on and comment that I copied for the OP of this thread had a video explaining it more into detail. I should've linked it but was lazy, and now I can't seem to find that same comment despite it getting tons of awards at the time.

Edit: I think I found it (saw all the awards again) but for whatever reason it was removed/deleted

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Evening_Dragon
09/27/22 5:29:47 PM
#90:


It's not impossible that he lucked out with a neural configuration ideal for Chess. I'm a very strong advocate of needing proof for guilt.

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Touch
09/27/22 5:30:58 PM
#91:


Also I didn't realize this dude kinda looks like Danny McBride lol

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TetsuoS2
09/27/22 8:53:59 PM
#92:


ellis123 posted...
It wasn't a streamer. It was Elon Musk. Hence why it has such legs: the king of the chuds made an original joke and they must now bow down before its majesty while prostrating themselves.

Streamers, on the other hand, went with the "mirrors on ceilings" joke, but by virtue of not having a bunch of incels eating every word they say it didn't have the legs that the anal beads joke had.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/5/8/AAOChCAADuMq.jpg

the original tweet was the quoted one from a streamer, elon just jumped on it lol.

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__aCEr__
09/27/22 9:14:22 PM
#94:


A friend will go to your chess match and cheer you on.

A best friend will go to your chess match and send Morse code signals to the vibrator in your ass.

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Master_Kazuya
09/27/22 9:17:48 PM
#95:


I watched his 30 min interview segment. Hans agreed to play again with all stipulations that he's cheating, like willing to play in whatever conditions. To me, now it's up to chess as a game to challenge him on that. If Magnus can beat him in a totally isolated condition convincingly, I'll think Hans cheated. If nobody steps up to Hans' challenge, Hans beats chess.

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ellis123
09/27/22 9:22:02 PM
#96:


TetsuoS2 posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/6/5/8/AAOChCAADuMq.jpg

the original tweet was the quoted one from a streamer, elon just jumped on it lol.
That quote, unless I'm missing something, does not have any mention of anal beads. And even if someone else inspired Elon to say it was anal beads Elon is still the one who started that absurdist nonsense.

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MrMallard
10/01/22 5:20:14 AM
#97:


Bumping bc this thread is three days old

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