Board 8 > Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters XXIV: Day 90 (RULE CHANGE) [smfffc]

(+) Yeah! (+)

RacistFAQS digivolve to SexistFAQS.

how does nobody see what I did

Because they aren't very smart lol

it's the lack of line breaks okay

Oh I see, you did it backwards from the main list.
SirChris posted...

Because they aren't very smart lol

this

Grimlyn posted...

you really don't understand how trades work

TforA trades hinders their compatibility, because if you trade T for A you can't then save A out of your own accord, you just used up one of A's trades for T

it's the reason I know a buncha traders don't take the Celes trades so they can keep their own Celes save open for the final hour and the traders (me & Yankees) can take people who wouldn't normally save Celes

Yep, always better to trade with characters you probably aren't going to support anyway. Even though that can lead to awkward situations where you kinda want to eliminate the character you're trading with to save someone you like more at the end. <_<

Speaking of trades who wants to trade me for rinoa h1

FFDragon posted...

Speaking of trades who wants to trade me for rinoa h1

Ill do this for Rikku

How many people actually get a final hour though? If you're only gonna save twice probably better to trade with a character you like

swordz9 posted...

Ill do this for Rikku

kk

andylt posted...

Oh I see, you did it backwards from the main list.

...yeah I didn't think there was a "trick" to that, lawl

Pokewars posted...

RacistFAQS digivolve to SexistFAQS.

i mean, RFaqs is a constant, look at yesterday.

pjbasis posted...

How many people actually get a final hour though? If you're only gonna save twice probably better to trade with a character you like

averaging at about 40% of all savers of the last 5 rounds, discounting an outlier Day 86 with 57%

also meta folks hold if they don't think they're getting another save after and they'd like to support multiple characters

This years meta is slower than the last couple, probably changes now that its top ten and we got some people

ok caught up on posts, thx andy/Gen/Maniac for filling me in, and GMUN for the laylevids - you still got it, lol. I like that new twist of Layle using his powers to eliminate people.

I wonder if save counts remain low enough to stretch out H3 a bit more than last year, or if there are going to be any more new arrivals or returnees driving up the counts, hmm.

mnk posted...

Yep, always better to trade with characters you probably aren't going to support anyway. Even though that can lead to awkward situations where you kinda want to eliminate the character you're trading with to save someone you like more at the end. <_<

Only if you regularly get 3 saves.

Otherwise you are using both your saves on people you like rather than one for your main and one for someone you don't like. If you aren't going to save anyone outside your trade then you should trade for someone you want to support.

Edit: I see pj already covered this.

Or you can do like me and just save the characters you like if you only get two saves and remove the trading middle man

This lets the naturally strongest among my preferences get further and gives a better chance that the final will not the completely suck, at the cost of losing some of my much higher favorites earlier. But I mean the idea of keeping X-Death on life support to the top 10 doesn't sound all that fun to me. The year will come when I only have to help a little. That's when we strike.

the concept of trading for two characters you like under the idea that it's to benefit them both is misguided - the traded save is not yours, it belongs to the person you traded with

it's not *you* getting two saves, it's you and your partner each getting one.

if *you* don't personally take that trade, somebody else likely will - I say that as someone who frequently has their first offer ignored for 45 minutes but nevertheless gets someone's help by the time my save comes up so I've never actually fumbled my times from it - because yeah I also try to help out stranded traders if I can, that's the entire reason 3-ways happen because people try to extend a hand

Theoretically there aren't infinite trades so someone could get shut out eventually.

Well fine edit your post to counter my argument preemptively

traders to savers ratio is very low, and even traders can just extend their trade with you

I will say tho the top 5 people start getting stingy about who they will support

semi-finals for sure people directly avoid their least fav and only take open traders just to prevent their 3rd choice from snagging it up

The viability of shutting out characters depends on the field, who the character is, who is trying to trade, how many traders are tripling up on the character, etc.

You say "not till top 5" but that isn't what I'd call a hard and fast rule. If there is a coordinated effort to shut a character down it can be done well before that.

That being said i generally just auto trade (with an exception or two as it seems needed) when I trade. I'm just saying if you're trying to trade a character you like for a character you like you may as well just save the two characters.

it isn't a hard rule for sure, and I wouldn't even really call it effective until the semis, but sure people do still try as the field widdles down I do acknowledge

(and we are gettin' there, currently at Top 8 now)

*edit* also worth noting people can develop some strong emotional grudges at this point so it's good to be careful with your words during the results phases

smfffc meta ouyaaa

I held a strong emotional grudge against Celes for always beating Kefka in the bot contests.

bot contest gave me a strong emotional grudge against the phrase "they'll always have another chance"

Lopen posted...

Or you can do like me and just save the characters you like if you only get two saves and remove the trading middle man

I don't know, saving your favorite final fantasy characters.... that sounds a bit out there, man...

MartinFF7 posted...

mmmm I don't quite get this, we're both trading for 2 characters right now? I like the H3 either-or freedom option which I wouldn't have with a direct save on either in the first two hours. Though once we drop to 2 it becomes a 2-0 or 1-1 decision and which one gets the H1 deal/1-0 advantage, yeah...

Well, even if I'm wrong, "my ideals are inviolate. Invincible."

this doesn't go against what I said! I'm doing the same thing, having h1 & h2 trades so I have a free h3 to pick between which of the two needs it

Which is why it's beneficial to take h1 & h2 trades for characters I wouldn't care to use my h3 on (and it's an incredibly bad idea to get a trade from someone who *would* use their h3 on your character).

That's why we set-up these proxy trade saves, so that Bane can perform my Tidus h1 save for me, and you can do my Ramza h2 save. The greatest purpose of a trade is in leaving your last save free. In return for that service, I give my h1 to Bane and my h2 to you.

Martin if you know that quote you are saving the wrong characters tbh

Yeah after reading the o.g. post a second time I got it but didn't edit out in time - meta ouyaaa indeed.

Chris: thought you'd like that, lol. I'm holding "The future of this contest shall be shaped by my hands!" in reserve, feel free to appropriate that if you get the first opportunity to/bring back Evil Chris ;)

Grimlyn posted...

this doesn't go against what I said! I'm doing the same thing, having h1 & h2 trades so I have a free h3 to pick between which of the two needs it

Which is why it's beneficial to take h1 & h2 trades for characters I wouldn't care to use my h3 on (and it's an incredibly bad idea to get a trade from someone who *would* use their h3 on your character).

That's why we set-up these proxy trade saves, so that Bane can perform my Tidus h1 save for me, and you can do my Ramza h2 save. The greatest purpose of a trade is in leaving your last save free. In return for that service, I give my h1 to Bane and my h2 to you.

But what if you are specifically trying to save more than one character.

Like from the beginning of this year I wanted to see Ramza, and then then the two best VII characters around, around. So obviously Seph, Barret, Cloud etc are gone, but I was always trying to save 3. Still am. What is the best course for that?

SirAuron posted...

But what if you are specifically trying to save more than one character.

Like from the beginning of this year I wanted to see Ramza, and then then the two best VII characters around, around. So obviously Seph, Barret, Cloud etc are gone, but I was always trying to save 3. Still am. What is the best course for that?

Just save them without taking up someone's trades for them, that way those people can still trade with someone else to more saves.

Example

Person A saves Tifa, then Person A trades for Tifa and you take it. That's two saves for Tifa.

or

Person A saves Tifa, then Person A trades for Tifa and someone else takes it, and you save Tifa independently. That's three saves for Tifa.

All this 4D chess talk who cares about this
I only push one character at a time

SirAuron posted...

But what if you are specifically trying to save more than one character.

Like from the beginning of this year I wanted to see Ramza, and then then the two best VII characters around, around. So obviously Seph, Barret, Cloud etc are gone, but I was always trying to save 3. Still am. What is the best course for that?

My post literally described the benefit for the case of saving two people, with the explicit example for me currently splitting between Tidus & Ramza.

If you want to support more than two characters... then you can just save them all directly 1 each, and by spreading yourself evenly among them, whichever character has the most support will survive.

However if you do want to keep your h3 free to be able to defend the weakest from elimination then yes you want the same thing as described earlier - make h1 & h2 deals for characters you don't care about being blocked from saving h3. You want FF7 & Ramza? Make trade deals with characters who are not FF7 & Ramza. Your partners will be making your FF7 & Ramza saves, allowing you to use your final save however you want.

Grimlyn posted...

My post literally described the benefit for the case of saving two people, with the explicit example for me currently splitting between Tidus & Ramza.

If you want to support more than two characters... then you can just save them all directly 1 each, and by spreading yourself evenly among them, whichever character has the most support will survive.

However if you do want to keep your h3 free to be able to defend the weakest from elimination then yes you want the same thing as described earlier - make h1 & h2 deals for characters you don't care about being blocked from saving h3. You want FF7 & Ramza? Make trade deals with characters who are not FF7 & Ramza. Your partners will be making your FF7 & Ramza saves, allowing you to use your final save however you want.

So I should use an hour 1 for Ramza, hour 2 for one of the girls and not save either myself?

Is that always true, or just cause we are so close to end game.

And in FoG rounds, do you still trade the first 2 hours for different characters, or just save them?

SirAuron posted...

And in FoG rounds, do you still trade the first 2 hours for different characters, or just save them?

...

It's FoG.

SirAuron posted...

So I should use an hour 1 for Ramza, hour 2 for one of the girls and not save either myself?

Is that always true, or just cause we are so close to end game.

What I said before still holds for finals: If you just want to prevent loss, do h1 & h2 trades with non-desired character to keep your h3 free. This requires you to eagerly F5 your last save til the weakest remains, which also possibly encourage other holders doing the same. Saving them 1 each will give them optimal coverage, and any loss is the fault of that character just not having the support they need to survive any longer.

With endgame though you need to accept the fact that not everybody can be the champion, so with that in mind it makes sense to prioritize the strongest, which points to the "just save them yourself" tactic.

If there are 3 characters you want but it's the top 4... you can't get enough trades to free up a theoretical h4. You have to make a choice at some point.

SirAuron posted...

And in FoG rounds, do you still trade the first 2 hours for different characters, or just save them?

There is no such thing as trading in FoG. If someone wants save x, they don't need to trade with you, they can just save x. The only strategizing with FoG is avoiding people that are covered by others -- but infamously, this can lead to strong characters getting left behind as everybody thinks someone else will cover it.

What you *can* do is announce that you will save any FF7 character, pushing holders to make their FF7 knowing someone else will cover a remaining option... but by that logic you could just make the save yourself and they'll react to you clearing board of FF7 choices. I can save Locke in FoG knowing that Yankees would turn his Locke save into an Edgar.