Board 8 > Who is the rightful monarch of Westeros?

(+) Yeah! (+)

After King Robert dies, who should be king/queen?

Stannis the Mannis. The throne is his, by rights.

Legally its Stannis though one of the series themes is that kings are a bad idea.

Interestingly Jon vs. Stannis could be a dispute as the legal justification for Robert taking the throne was that he was already fifth in line (his grandmother was a Targaryen) and everybody ahead of him had either died or fled. So Jon could be considered the heir in that case although in practical terms Robert took the throne by conquest so it would be Stannis.

Bran The Broken

There's no such thing as a rightful monarch! All monarchs are parasites and Westeros should be a republic!

...But really, following Westerosi law, it's Stannis the moment Robert dies. Robert won the throne by conquest the same way Aegon did, so Targ lineage is irrelevant. Dany (or Jon or whoever) could win it by conquest again but there's no inherent right there imo.

Stannis, though Tywin would probably have made the best king.

bran has the best story so him

None of these guys have the best story, so why are they in the poll?

Stannis the Mannis, and the HBO series did him dirty

Wedge_Antilles posted...

though Tywin would probably have made the best king.

Ew.

andylt posted...

There's no such thing as a rightful monarch! All monarchs are parasites and Westeros should be a republic!

...But really, following Westerosi law, it's Stannis the moment Robert dies. Robert won the throne by conquest the same way Aegon did, so Targ lineage is irrelevant. Dany (or Jon or whoever) could win it by conquest again but there's no inherent right there imo.

Technically Targ lineage is not irrelevant as the Baratheons themselves are Targs - I believe Jon would be Stanniss heir if Shireen dies, for instance, as they share an ancestor. Jon is Stanniss second cousin once removed I think.

Of course its all made up in-universe so it doesnt really matter!

If Robert was the rightful king, then Stannis is his heir. Joffrey etc are not his children, they are Jaime's. Gendry is his son but a bastard. Stannis is older than Renly. Jon and Daenerys are from a deposed lineage. No one else even has a legitimate claim. I don't like Stannis and I don't think he would be a good king, but he is who should have sat on the throne.

Voted Viserys.

Literally the Night King

Rightful is such a key word.

You either believe taking the throne by force makes you the rightful king, in which it can be literally any person in Westeros, as Baratheon did. Or you believe it descends in orderly fashion.

Thus, if you argue any manner of succession then it can't be anyone dealing with the Baratheons. They took it by force which means whoever has the strongest army is the rightful monarch.

You can't pick and choose when to go by succession.

The Mad King was killed. It goes to his successor, not the murderer. Jon was a bastard, regardless of his lineage, which was considered not to be able to have rights to succession unless lifted so by the King.

Thus, it goes to the eldest male heir, unless otherwise proclaimed. This being Viserys. Whether or not he would have been a good King is irrelevant. He was the rightful monarch.

Wedge_Antilles posted...

Stannis, though Tywin would probably have made the best king.

Not a chance. While Tywin was fairly effective as the Hand to King Aerys II at first, his actions later did contribute to the King's descent into madness. He stood by and watched Westeros burn, and when he finally did take action it was to slaughter the smallfolk in King's Landing and murder some women and children. He's cunning but cruel. In fact, the reason he was made Hand in the first place was his ruthlessness. He is the reason the Lannisters became the most hated family in the realm, and making him king wouldn't suddenly win those people back. His rule would be fraught with dissent and misery, and it would likely end in a way very similar to Aerys II.

I might be chronologically challenged here, but wasn't Viserys dead by the time they found out that Robert had died? The dude literally would not have lived long enough to claim the throne even if he was the legitimate heir.

Robert died the episode after Viserys, but the timeline kind of jumped around in those episodes (he got stabbed by the boar, then they did flashbacks)

malenia, goddess of rot

ChichiriMuyo posted...

I might be chronologically challenged here, but wasn't Viserys dead by the time they found out that Robert had died? The dude literally would not have lived long enough to claim the throne even if he was the legitimate heir.

That could be. I wasn't sure. Haven't read the book in ages.

I believe the Viserys option is under the impression that he always should have been on the throne regardless.

If we do consider it that way, seeing Robert as illegit from the start, then sure Viserys should have been king. However, I'm not sure we really can say Robert isn't the legitimate king. Yes, he took it by force, but so did the Targaryens once upon a time. Either way, the situation was what it was and Viserys never would/could have had the opportunity to rule.

Yeah, Robert was only a legit king in the end because of his slight Targ blood.