Current Events > a video on why the heros journey is bull shit

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9zR4lWyVN8

the guy who made this entire thing was a bigoted ass hole pushing christian white man values

and many of the myths and fables he insisted fit his magic circle

did not fit it at all so he edited them to fit it

all he did is create a mythology of his own that ppl in RL buy into (the good guy with a gun will save us is a example mentioned)

Nani?

Virtually all writing tropes were created centuries ago -- meaning the authors of such tropes were almost certainly bigoted in one way or another.

Clearly, the progressive thing to do is to forget every story and trope you've ever seen and invent writing from the ground up.

But the thing is, stories made before him, still follow that template. He did not create it, he just documented it.

FortuneCookie posted...

Virtually all writing tropes were created centuries ago -- meaning the authors of such tropes were almost certainly bigoted in one way or another.

Clearly, the progressive thing to do is to forget every story and trope you've ever seen and invent writing from the ground up.

and this shows how uncreative you are

BlackOmnimon posted...

But the thing is, stories made before him, still follow that template. He did not create it, he just documented it.

no no they do not follow that template at all countless stories didnt follow it

Why do people study this and not narremes

Watching the video now though >_>

I'll have to watch this. My English teacher in HS was constantly jerking off Joseph Campbell and centered like 2 years of curriculum around the hero's journey. It kinda pissed me off, everyone seemed to love that teacher but he was rude to me

What's the tl;dw of why people are hating on the hero's journey?

AceMos posted...

no no they do not follow that template at all countless stories didnt follow it

and a lot of stories do follow it, whether in full or in part

Squall28 posted...

What's the tl;dw of why people are hating on the hero's journey?

its ultimately limiting to creativity

and it tells a false narrative of history and old stories

but its not the kinda thing you can give a TLDW version of really

as its a multi layered discussion

AceMos posted...

the good guy with a gun will save us is a example mentioned

Uh, what? The Hero's Journey is not prescriptive of anything, it's an attempt in comparative mythology studies to find commonality among myths in order to examine how different peoples cultures and religions handle parts of the model differently. Cambell wasnt the first to compare hero myths like this.

Different hero myths not precisely fitting the model is pretty much the point.

I haven't watched your whole video because it says part 1 and I don't like video essays (just give me a transcript), but your OP sounds like it starts at a false premise of the hero's journey model claiming some kind of sacred truth that it just does not.

Squall28 posted...

What's the tl;dw of why people are hating on the hero's journey?

"Not all stories follow the hero's journey, Campbell was cherry picking in order to fit older stories into his pre-fabricated model".

Is my guess, I didn't watch the video, just know the general hubbub.

Squall28 posted...

What's the tl;dw of why people are hating on the hero's journey?

well the first 10 minutes is just attacking Campell for being a product of his time, and basically his theory is also a product of it's time, and things are a product of their time so you can't have a universal narrative, and I guess structuralism is wrong, and he also doesn't include anything that counters his argument into his theory, and the theory is basically only valid because it depends on heteronormativity that would, it does make sense, make all narratives seem similar when you focus on the person that is presented as being the MC of a work or works that are acknowledged as relevant

a bit pretentious because the author of this video seems to be doing something similar. but, Campell is basically wrong because he relies on a specific identity that has been overrepresented and anything that falls out of that umbrella is ignored- so it's not really a universal narrative.

AceMos posted...

its ultimately limiting to creativity

recognizing that tropes exist does not limit creativity lmao

and it tells a false narrative of history and old stories

tropes are flexible. there are variations on all of them. that doesn't mean the stories he drew from don't fit his framework

just watch the video the example makes sense in context

stories impact ppl in RL this has been true for our entire history

and the heros journey is used to inspire certain views in the population

AceMos posted...

and the heros journey is used to inspire certain views in the population

lol

needlessly getting upset supporting or hating this is both equally pedantic and cringe

i cant deal with that face i turned it off pretty quick

AceMos posted...

stories impact ppl in RL this has been true for our entire history

Prison School and Shimoneta definitely inspired my life

video makes me agree Campell sucks.

this is more interesting than 1000 Faces: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirty-Six_Dramatic_Situations

TIL ancient mesopotamians were christian white supremacists.

Or maybe that dude is full of bullshit

One or the other right?

TIL this was never about discussing lit

AceMos making another men bad, women good topic.

You know the hero in said heros journeys dont have to be white or male, right?

Some people cite Buffy the Vampire Slayer as an example of this.

AceMos posted...

just watch the video the example makes sense in context

stories impact ppl in RL this has been true for our entire history

and the heros journey is used to inspire certain views in the population

What is quixotism

I don't understand this.

Are you saying woman and people who aren't white cannot go through the Hero's Journey?

I fail to see how it's only used for white men.

Maggie is great, I loved her series on Snyder's take on Superman.

Ar0ge posted...

I don't understand this.

Are you saying woman and people who aren't white cannot go through the Hero's Journey?

I fail to see how it's only used for white men.

he taught at a women's college and told women to stop trying to be like men

This is like saying the three act structure is bullshit lol ill watch the video eventually maybe but seems like a dumb premise.

also, what people need to learn is that it's not just 'white men'. the idea is that the people who run society take all the positive credit for the state of society, and most stories are in service of this image of them. Odysseus is not a slave, for example, or John Galt is not a woman for example, etc. It's just that white men were seen as the face of this 'main character represents the leaders and their values' edit: all this to say that what the video gets right for me is that, basically, the only reason that this comparison is possible is because the hero is always an image of the powers that be, which is why that lends itself to repetition

which ironically becomes its own metanarrative anyway, which is why the author of the video is doing the exact same thing...

Strangely enough I just discovered this channel a few days ago, great content for the most part so far, her videos on Twin Peaks were a bit too bogged down in attacking Twin Perfect but everything else has been top tier content.

It's a reasonable argument against Joseph Campbell's authority and why his point of view is outdated, but in 20 minutes it only addresses any counter arguments to the monomyth concept twice and both times it's by citing someone else's work. I don't see any original argument here. I'd give this paper a B-.

BuzzKilljoy posted...

It's a reasonable argument against Joseph Campbell's authority and why his point of view is outdated, but in 20 minutes it only addresses any counter arguments to the monomyth concept twice and both times it's by citing someone else's work. I don't see any original argument here. I'd give this paper a B-.

its labeled as part 1 for a reason

AceMos posted...

and this shows how uncreative you are

It's like discovering a new species of animal. You may find a new type of bird or reptile, but you won't find a species of tiger or elephant that no one has ever laid eyes on.

If you throw away the old techniques of writing, you'll be left with less interesting ones instead. You can begin a story with a denouement, follow it up with a climax, and spend the rest of the story showing the buildup to what we witnessed just to turn the traditional story arc on its head -- but it won't make for a good story.

AceMos posted...

and the heros journey is used to inspire certain views in the population

can you give some examples of these views?

averagejoel posted...

can you give some examples of these views?

just watch the video please it will explain it far better than i can

Campbell's a joke. no one takes him seriously in modern studies.

i wrote my dissertation on narratology :3

AceMos posted...

just watch the video please it will explain it far better than i can

you know its incredibly self righteous to order people to watch a long ass video taking your word that any of it is true, especially when you can't be bothered to provide a decent summary

Robot2600 posted...

Campbell's a joke. no one takes him seriously in modern studies.

i wrote my dissertation on narratology :3

What did you write about? Is a complete theory of the narreme even possible?

i wrote about the way to extract the moral values of a text by the way in which it punishes and rewards characters.

That sounds pretty interesting

Robot2600 posted...

i wrote about the way to extract the moral values of a text by the way in which it punishes and rewards characters.

What's your take on Forrest Gump?

Tag for later

If the Hero's journey is so pervasive, and powerful, so male-centric and so dominating that we need to cut it down... to save fiction.

Why is the best-selling fiction writer of all time, female (Agatha Christie) who wrote murder mysteries (which distinctly do not in any shape or form follow the Hero's Journey) [78 crime novels that have sold almost 2 billion copies, in over 44 languages - https://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/news/2018/10/5-page-turning-book-facts]?

coolguyjimmy posted...

Why is the best-selling fiction writer of all time, female (Agatha Christie) who wrote murder mysteries (which distinctly do not in any shape or form follow the Hero's Journey) [78 crime novels that have sold almost 2 billion copies, in over 44 languages -

how do you know that her stories "do not in any shape or form follow the Hero's Journey"?

AceMos posted...

just watch the video please it will explain it far better than i can

I'm at work dude

averagejoel posted...

how do you know that her stories "do not in any shape or form follow the Hero's Journey"?

Hero's Journey:
"A hero ventures forth from the world of common day into a region of supernatural wonder: fabulous forces are there encountered and a decisive victory is won: the hero comes back from this mysterious adventure with the power to bestow boons on his fellow man."

Most Detective novels do not follow it, especially Poirot.
They cannot "discover a mythical world", as it's their day-to-day world, Poirot is literally a world-famous detective at the beginning of every novel. Poirot doesn't encounter "fabulous forces", and does not have a decisive victory if ever and is more often than not saddened, from discovering the truth.

Lord of the Rings was deliberately written to deconstruct this trope, so hard disagree with it being bad. We wouldn't have gotten Lords of the Rings, if it wasn't in popular culture.