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MedeaLysistrata 12/20/21 3:13:34 AM #1: |
Topic and discuss --- "Why is ontology so expensive?" - JH [Is this live?][Joyless planet...] ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g0ldie 12/20/21 3:16:51 AM #2: |
either that or lesbians. but for the most part, yea, whether it's how she edit: I really enjoyed the game, though. --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MedeaLysistrata 12/20/21 3:19:13 AM #3: |
I don't think it's a big deal that you have to play as a character you disagree with --- "Why is ontology so expensive?" - JH [Is this live?][Joyless planet...] ... Copied to Clipboard!
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AsucaHayashi 12/20/21 3:19:26 AM #4: |
plenty of worse things wrong with the game than abby. --- http://abload.de/img/pcgamingxtuvt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9Yv0R2Z.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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MedeaLysistrata 12/20/21 3:19:59 AM #5: |
AsucaHayashi posted... plenty of worse things wrong with the game than abby.like what --- "Why is ontology so expensive?" - JH [Is this live?][Joyless planet...] ... Copied to Clipboard!
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coolpal23 12/20/21 3:21:36 AM #6: |
AsucaHayashi posted... plenty of worse things wrong with the game than abby. --- MSI B360-A PRO|Asus Rog 8Gb Rtx 2070S| DDR4 2400 32Gb G.skill| i5 8600K 3.6Ghz Steam: That Hero Luka "Fact and fiction, where do you draw the line?" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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AsucaHayashi 12/20/21 3:24:14 AM #7: |
MedeaLysistrata posted... like what i like this one: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/0/6/AAUYtOAABtU-.jpg it's basically a full sea of shit than just one big turd you can point to as being the "main" point of contention --- http://abload.de/img/pcgamingxtuvt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9Yv0R2Z.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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NullAndVoidFC 12/20/21 3:26:06 AM #8: |
Great game. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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gmanthebest 12/20/21 3:35:28 AM #9: |
--- What do I feel when I shoot an enemy? Recoil. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g0ldie 12/20/21 3:36:45 AM #10: |
I feel like people create these narratives in their head due to some of the stuff they experience in the game, and then criticize ND as "lecturing" them because of that. like, the game doesn't give the player any choice (same with other games from the developer), so when you have to kill a dog, for example, they say it's a critique on the player, it's supposed to make us feel bad, etc. when it's just Ellie doing those things and we're seeing those actions through her eyes, whether we decide to assign blame to her or not. --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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viewmaster_pi 12/20/21 3:36:57 AM #11: |
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/8/AAOjRaAACuDM.jpg --- We can dream ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g0ldie 12/20/21 3:39:33 AM #12: |
gmanthebest posted... idk, I feel he was acting in character. he lived somewhere safe, and was doing what he could do be the kinda person Tommy and Ellie would want him to be. plus, it's not like he had a choice when what happened happened. --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GameGodOfAll 12/20/21 3:54:25 AM #13: |
Phenomenal game. Only real flaw is --- My Words Were True And Sheamus Made You Believe! http://imgur.com/Fc39f.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Punished_Blinx 12/20/21 3:58:37 AM #14: |
AsucaHayashi posted... i like this one: I really can't relate to this as I've never interpreted The Last of Us (or any of the modern Naughty Dog games) to ever use the characters to represent the morality of the player. If anything their games are the opposite. You're playing as characters with their own motivations that often don't match your own. The ending of the first game already established that it is not up to you. --- A Fallen Mascot ... Copied to Clipboard!
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GameGodOfAll 12/20/21 4:14:53 AM #15: |
Punished_Blinx posted... I really can't relate to this as I've never interpreted The Last of Us (or any of the modern Naughty Dog games) to ever use the characters to represent the morality of the player.Bingo. Hit the nail on the head especially with the last bit. Some people can't wrap their heads around it while others are just looking for things to complain about. It's like when people say that the theme of the game is "revenge bad". IDK how that can be your takeaway if you actually played it and paid even half attention to the story. --- My Words Were True And Sheamus Made You Believe! http://imgur.com/Fc39f.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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cjsdowg 12/20/21 4:19:09 AM #16: |
For me I hated that Abby --- To be a poor man is hard, but to be a poor race in a land of dollars is the very bottom of hardships. W.E.B. Du Bois ... Copied to Clipboard!
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AsucaHayashi 12/20/21 4:19:51 AM #17: |
g0ldie posted... I feel like people create these narratives in their head due to some of the stuff they experience in the game, and then criticize ND as "lecturing" them because of that. it's not really an imaginative narrative since in "part 1" you're(as ellie) brutally killing dogs and in "part 2" you're(as abby) shown to be all lovey dovey with them. that was definitely intentionally used as a "you specifically as the player should feel bad since you just murdered a bunch of dogs when they're sweet animals". many of these pretentious design decisions exist throughout the game. cjsdowg posted... For me I hated that Abby definitely another pretentious design decision. "you can kill as many people as you want to until we decide you cannot kill one more person". --- http://abload.de/img/pcgamingxtuvt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9Yv0R2Z.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Drrobotniks 12/20/21 4:20:12 AM #18: |
"Looking for a reason to complain" Yea no, we were lied to, and the entire point of the game from ellies pov was pointless Fuck this game lol ... Copied to Clipboard!
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spikethedevil 12/20/21 4:21:43 AM #19: |
GameGodOfAll posted... Bingo. Hit the nail on the head especially with the last bit. Some people can't wrap their heads around it while others are just looking for things to complain about. It's like when people say that the theme of the game is "revenge bad". IDK how that can be your takeaway if you actually played it and paid even half attention to the story. What? The whole point of the story is that revenge is a cycle and that Ellie broke that cycle but to late to keep Dinah. --- A garbage pod!? It's a smegging garbage pod! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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joe40001 12/20/21 4:22:19 AM #20: |
AsucaHayashi posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/0/6/AAUYtOAABtU-.jpgThis --- "joe is attractive and quite the brilliant poster" - Seiichi Omori http://i.imgur.com/TheGsZ9.gif ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g0ldie 12/20/21 4:22:31 AM #21: |
AsucaHayashi posted... it's not really an imaginative narrative since in "part 1" you're(as ellie) brutally killing dogs and in "part 2" you're(as abby) shown to be all lovey dovey with them.except you see Ellie also playing with dogs in the beginning, and the only time she canonically kills a dog is when it attacks her first. Drrobotniks posted... Yea no, we were lied to, and the entire point of the game from ellies pov was pointlesswhat do you mean? --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Drrobotniks 12/20/21 4:26:33 AM #22: |
g0ldie posted... what do you mean?Part 2 is the most emotionally manipulative, retcon filled, poorly paced, horribly written, plot contrived, character assassinating, and disrespectful continuation of a series that people loved game that I've ever played, in comparison to part one ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Punished_Blinx 12/20/21 4:28:02 AM #23: |
AsucaHayashi posted... it's not really an imaginative narrative since in "part 1" you're(as ellie) brutally killing dogs and in "part 2" you're(as abby) shown to be all lovey dovey with them. It's meant to show there's still humanity from the opposing perspective. Like the exact same thing could be shown in a TV show and the same themes all fit the same. It doesn't actually do anything meta as a video game. AsucaHayashi posted... definitely another pretentious design decision. Eh I think by that point you're really not supposed to agree with Ellie still being obsessed with revenge. Again it's a series where the player does not have agency. It's the same with Nate in Uncharted 4 still wanting to go on an adventure. There's no option for him to stay at home because it's not your story to influence. --- A Fallen Mascot ... Copied to Clipboard!
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spikethedevil 12/20/21 4:28:40 AM #24: |
What does it retcon and who does it character assassinate? Because the first game makes it very clear that Joel has done some heinous shit before meeting Ellie. --- A garbage pod!? It's a smegging garbage pod! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g0ldie 12/20/21 4:32:30 AM #25: |
Drrobotniks posted... I meant, how were we lied to, and how was Ellie's PoV pointless? Part 2 is the most emotionally manipulativeis this about the dog thing, or are you talking about something else? retcon filledhow? poorly paced, horribly writtento each their own, but I disagree. plot contrived, character assassinatingagain, how? --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Drrobotniks 12/20/21 4:38:52 AM #26: |
g0ldie posted... I meant, how were we lied toThe way naughty dog advertised this game was dishonest, they actively lied to people about what the game was going to be about. Joel playing an important part of the story was a lie, expanding on the relationship of him and ellie was a lie. Abby not being the new protagonist? Was a lie, Dinah not being the one who died in the prologue? Was a lie, and to make up such lies about Joel's presence in the game and how the plot revolves around his death feels really dirty. They had to have known the og plot was going to piss people off, why else would they have tried to hide it? Its not that Joel died, its how he died, and how he's treated as a plot device This is just one gripe, ill address the rest of your points as soon as I find the write up I had jotted down when the game first came out ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g0ldie 12/20/21 4:46:26 AM #27: |
the only advertisement that we got about the game was without context, so while the one scene in the commercial turned out not to be true, we didn't know enough about the story where that change should have made a difference. and no offense, but that other stuff is BS - even though what happened with Joel took place in the beginning of the game, his character still had a strong importance with the rest of the game. the stuff with Abby and Dina was also fan speculation, not anything that ND said would happen. and obviously they kept the plot secret because it's a story heavy game. should they just give players an outline of what's going to happen throughout? --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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loafy013 12/20/21 5:01:33 AM #28: |
Punished_Blinx posted... If anything their games are the opposite. You're playing as characters with their own motivations that often don't match your own. The ending of the first game already established that it is not up to you.I never got the complaints about Joel acting out of character at the end of the first game. It's like those players ignored that Joel was not a good person, like recognizing traps on the road, implying that he had done the same thing many times before. It's slapped across your face that that is why Tommy dropped contact with him. But some people are so used to putting themselves in the shoes of the protagonist, they couldn't seem to recognize the evil side of him. --- The ball is round, the game lasts 90 minutes. That's fact. Everything else, is theory. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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AsucaHayashi 12/20/21 5:08:11 AM #29: |
Punished_Blinx posted... It's meant to show there's still humanity from the opposing perspective. but we're talking about a video game where you're given the choice of shooting/maim with a knife/ bludgeon dogs etc. but what you cannot choose iirc is whether or not to get lovey dovey with them or having them show their "good boy" side. that's not really showing humanity as much as it is shoving morality down your throat and forcing you to choke on it. Punished_Blinx posted... Eh I think by that point you're really not supposed to agree with Ellie still being obsessed with revenge. doesn't really matter whether we agree with her or not but more the trail of blood left in her wake from the last dozen hours and the problem of the game trying to convince us it makes sense to do a complete 180. --- http://abload.de/img/pcgamingxtuvt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9Yv0R2Z.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Verdekal 12/20/21 6:00:24 AM #30: |
The game is an analysis on vengeance and that we're all on equal footing regardless of our intentions. That's the pretentious part. --- Don't tease the octopus, kids! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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fan357 12/20/21 6:09:58 AM #31: |
I loved it. People are mad at basically nothing lol. --- Never forget where you came from. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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legendarylemur 12/20/21 6:26:26 AM #32: |
How dare you, he had a family kinda thing has already been done in games anyways. Every time it's done, people are just kinda meh or not down for that life. The immediate example in my head is No More Heroes 2. But it sorta works in NMH2 that a random minion you might've killed at one point was some big honcho's uncle because the point of No More Heroes as a series is to do a bunch of otaku shit and point out less explored flaws in the idea of playing video games. So when the game pulls shit like that, it kinda makes sense, and Travis, while a hero, is a pretty terrible guy who kills people as a job lol. NMH1 already played up the moral implication behind everything he's doing and how he's kinda treating it as a bit of a joke, even using some weird mail order weapon. But despite the series being within its rights with such a plot point being the focus of the entire game 2, people still weren't really that down with the whole idea. NMH1 just felt more focused in the end. In TLOU2 though, you can clearly see the intention. It's a tearjerker plot point to force a sense of guilt. It just doesn't work as well because there's no adequate build up from even the last game, and the rest of the writing in the series isn't like this where there's absolutely no tell in a reasonable sense to see this plot coming, or at least make sense when it happens. They also base the entire game around the premise, so when it doesn't work, literally the whole game falls apart. I just don't think it's done well, and I think people who defend it tend to defend it purely on the idea that it was a risky decision, and there was any sense of emotion within the story. But those are hardly criteria for good writing or direction. Flow or reason or well construed intent is far more important, and it misses on all those points. --- "Iwata was awesome" - Mr. Nintendo https://i.imgur.com/krtFHol.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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WingsOfGood 12/20/21 6:29:26 AM #33: |
g0ldie posted... Same with other games from the developer), Might try playing more games ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g0ldie 12/20/21 6:43:09 AM #34: |
wat my point was, why is not having control over any part of the story in TLoU2 suddenly an issue when you didn't have control over any part of the story in other Naughty Dog games. I wasn't trying to say anything about other games outside of the studio. --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Punished_Blinx 12/20/21 6:54:57 AM #36: |
AsucaHayashi posted... but we're talking about a video game where you're given the choice of shooting/maim with a knife/ bludgeon dogs etc. but what you cannot choose iirc is whether or not to get lovey dovey with them or having them show their "good boy" side. Like you said the gameplay forces you to be violent because you have no agency as a player. You're on the ride with Ellie and Abby. There's no choice for you to make. Ellie makes the choice at the end just she did throughout the game. Not you. Same thing with Joel and Abby. It makes sense for Ellie when she no longer sees Abby as this strong monster she had pictured in her mind. The other people she killed didn't matter to her. It was only ever Abby that mattered. So like I said the interpretation that the game wants you to feel guilty with your actions implies the game is manipulating you into making them. It doesn't. All of the commentary is about the characters. Never the player. So it's a nonsensical criticism regardless of how you feel about the game. I'm sure the TV show will play out the same. All the story provides is a conflict driven by hate that you see from opposing perspectives. The gameplay says nothing. Spec Ops and even games like Bioshock have a meta element. Naughty Dog games just don't go for that. --- A Fallen Mascot ... Copied to Clipboard!
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UnholyMudcrab 12/20/21 6:57:07 AM #37: |
[LFAQs-redacted-quote] Spec Ops did exactly one thing that impressed me, and that was --- http://i.imgur.com/VeNBg.gif http://i.imgur.com/gd5jC8q.gif http://i.imgur.com/PKIy7.gif http://i.imgur.com/3p29JqP.gif ... Copied to Clipboard!
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LightningAce11 12/20/21 6:58:30 AM #38: |
I can't believe people are still crying about this game. It didn't hold up to the first, let it go. --- I want you to grab your nuts. Grab your balls. I want you to take a handful, and just grab your nuts real quick. Swivel 'em around in a circular motion. -LTG ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ThyCorndog 12/20/21 7:01:25 AM #40: |
viewmaster_pi posted... https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/9/0/8/AAOjRaAACuDM.jpgBased --- https://i.imgur.com/6cPXvLN.jpg https://i.imgur.com/hVC4i6j.jpg ... Copied to Clipboard!
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coolpal23 12/20/21 7:07:19 AM #42: |
For me it's a big issue because the game wants you to sympathize and root for her, but her actions make her objectively evil and the game still wants me to be on her side and think she's a good person especially while demonizing the character from the first game whom we actually care about --- MSI B360-A PRO|Asus Rog 8Gb Rtx 2070S| DDR4 2400 32Gb G.skill| i5 8600K 3.6Ghz Steam: That Hero Luka "Fact and fiction, where do you draw the line?" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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spikethedevil 12/20/21 7:16:08 AM #43: |
coolpal23 posted... For me it's a big issue because the game wants you to sympathize and root for her, but her actions make her objectively evil and the game still wants me to be on her side and think she's a good person especially while demonizing the character from the first game whom we actually care about The first game demonised him as well. --- A garbage pod!? It's a smegging garbage pod! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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coolpal23 12/20/21 7:18:28 AM #44: |
spikethedevil posted... The first game demonised him as well.He had time to be characterized though, a whole games worth why, In part 2 it's done so poorly its near manipulative, if not fully, the game tries way too hard to make it seem like she's a good guy when she's confirmed not, as for Joel he's morally ambiguous, here she's not --- MSI B360-A PRO|Asus Rog 8Gb Rtx 2070S| DDR4 2400 32Gb G.skill| i5 8600K 3.6Ghz Steam: That Hero Luka "Fact and fiction, where do you draw the line?" ... Copied to Clipboard!
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spikethedevil 12/20/21 7:19:47 AM #46: |
He isnt morally ambiguous, the first game makes it clear hes done horrific shit to the point he pushed his brother away. --- A garbage pod!? It's a smegging garbage pod! ... Copied to Clipboard!
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g0ldie 12/20/21 7:20:38 AM #47: |
I don't think TLoU2 tried to portray Abby as good, when --- https://imgur.com/mApEnf3 ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ScazarMeltex 12/20/21 7:20:43 AM #48: |
It's so hilarious how butt flustered people get about this game. --- "If you wish to converse with me define your terms" Voltaire ... Copied to Clipboard!
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ThunderTrain 12/20/21 7:26:49 AM #49: |
Story is still hot garbage. --- Without this nobody reads the last line of a post Look at all these slave masters posing on your dollar ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Nemu 12/20/21 7:34:21 AM #50: |
Id say the hamfisted revenge bad narrative that feels entirely hollow is the core reason. Its like they wrote the ending first and then filled in the rest of the game while forgetting about it. You can have a moment where a characters entire worldview is challenged and forced to change, but that was such a shitty way of doing it. ... Copied to Clipboard!
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