Current Events > Teens charged with murder of 8 year old after police shot her

(+) Yeah! (+)

I would note that the felony murder rule doesn't have to be taken as unchangeable fact. It's been abolished in England, Canada, Ireland, and some states already.

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WeeWeiWiiWie posted...

I mean, the question really is were the officers actions unreasonable, given the situation (which is different than "was the outcome favorable"). And we just don't have enough information here.

The only information needed is what sort of vehicle did they see and how common are they in that area. Though even in the situation that the vehicle was a very rare one and so seeing one in the area would give a high probability of it being involved, shooting in that situation is reckless and an absolutely stupid idea.

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Antifar posted...

I would note that the felony murder rule doesn't have to be taken as unchangeable fact. It's been abolished in England, Canada, Ireland, and some states already.

Also true, coupled with other states placing harsh restrictions on what constitutes "dangerous felonies."

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So basically, if two people fight and one gets into a car and drives away the cops can shoot at that car, kill someone else in it then blame the person in the fight? And people are ok with that?

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TheVipaGTS posted...

So basically, if two people fight and one gets into a car and drives away the cops can shoot at that car, kill someone else in it then blame the person in the fight? And people are ok with that?

In this situation it isn't even that(in that situation there'd be a direct connection between the actions and the death). It is two people get in a fight, one drives away and then cops elsewhere shoot at a different car thinking it was that one, the folks fighting get blamed.

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TheVipaGTS posted...

And people are ok with that?

"But cops CAN'T be the bad guys!"

Seriously. Bootlickers can and will defend anything. Hell, just look at how many people think a cop should be allowed to choke you with their knee for 9 minutes.

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Cops will pull all kinds of excuses to protect themselves. I was instantly reminded of when police shot a car over 100 times during the Chris Dorner hunt. Wrong make and model with a mom and daughter inside delivering newspapers, but the cops "had no reason to believe Dorner wasn't in the car."

Or in Florida a few years ago. Two thieves hit up a jewelry store and hijack a delivery truck with the driver still in it. The police lit up the truck on a crowded highway, killing all 3 passengers and injuring several other people in surrounding cars.

Doesn't look like it's going to deescalate anytime soon sadly.

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Alot of Cops are Bad

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Don't say the letters.

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This is nothing new. If you commit a crime and someone else is injured or killed during it you are charged with it on top of the other stuff.

Someone should be tried with murder.

The fucking cops. This is straight up intent to kill innocent people, even if they were mistaken in their reasons why they still intended to shoot and kill.
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uwnim posted...

In this situation it isn't even that(in that situation there'd be a direct connection between the actions and the death). It is two people get in a fight, one drives away and then cops elsewhere shoot at a different car thinking it was that one, the folks fighting get blamed.

I still dont think the former is ok. Shooting at a car isnt the only way or time they can stop someone. If its actually life or death like a kidnapping then yea, blame the kidnapper, but if its two people fighting, one gets in a car and someone else in that car who had no idea what went down gets shot, thats negligence on the cop. They cant just go firing at fuckin everything all the time.

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TheVipaGTS posted...

I still dont think the former is ok. Shooting at a car isnt the only way or time they can stop someone. If its actually life or death like a kidnapping then yea, blame the kidnapper, but if its two people fighting, one gets in a car and someone else in that car who had no idea what went down gets shot, thats negligence on the cop. They cant just go firing at fuckin everything all the time.

Yeah, I agree. Was just saying that at least then theres actually a direct connection so a felony murder charge would make some sense(even if Id personally disagree with it).

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TheVipaGTS posted...

If its actually life or death like a kidnapping then yea, blame the kidnapper

I mean, in this case it seems the two teens started to open fire at eachother outside a high school football stadium that just let out after a game. Seems like a scenario where massive collateral damage is likely, including that of kids.

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Resisting the urge to make an extremely poor-taste joke.

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This topic has some shit tier people in it that are desperate to consume boots.

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lilORANG posted...

Wtf, how did you get that from the article?

but all three have told investigators they opened fire on a vehicle they mistakenly believed was involved in the shooting between Ford and Strand

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More than a few cops are bad

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Noice.

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At the very least the teens should be charged with manslaughter, not murder. Murder is deliberate homicide. Neither teen was gunning for that kid, and neither teen hit the kid.

Im not saying they dont bear responsibility for her death, but it doesnt fit the legal definition of murder.

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Why were the officers even firing at a moving vehicle? It's not like there were people hanging out the window pointing guns at someone. Killing the driver could have led to even more collateral damage.

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littlebro07 posted...

Why were the officers even firing at a moving vehicle? It's not like there were people hanging out the window pointing guns at someone. Killing the driver could have led to even more collateral damage.

This. The cops were popping off like its Die Hard or something. Even if it WAS the right car, they coulda killed a passerby!

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Cops murdering children and pinning the blame on someone else. Typical Murrica

Both the cops and the teens should get charged with her murder.

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pogo_rabid posted...

Both the cops and the teens should get charged with her murder.

The teens should definitely be charged with something, but not murder. Not even felony murder.

A cop cant just open up on a bystander and then charge the nearest crime in progress with murder. Thats insane. And its essentially whats happening here.

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When you have so little faith in your police officers that you won't acknowledge their agency in their actions.

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DJquackquack posted...

The teens should definitely be charged with something, but not murder. Not even felony murder.

A cop cant just open up on a bystander and then charge the nearest crime in progress with murder. Thats insane. And its essentially whats happening here.

They should be charged with murder, because fuck em, that's why.

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pogo_rabid posted...

They should be charged with murder, because fuck em, that's why.

Well truth be told, a part of me kinda agrees with you. The kid would still be alive if it wasnt for them.

But at the same time, we might as well not even have laws if theyre gonna be applied incorrectly.

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Felony murder.

Any death caused during committing a felony is charged to the ones committing the felony.

Charge the two idiots with this girls death.

Allow the family to sue for compensation.

ZMythos posted...

Alot of Cops are Bad

All*

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XxKrebsxX posted...

Felony murder.

Any death caused during committing a felony is charged to the ones committing the felony.

Charge the two idiots with this girls death.

Allow the family to sue for compensation.

Or...or....

Hold the trigger happy idiots who killed her responsible for firing on a vehicle without confirming it was the suspects

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XxKrebsxX posted...

Felony murder.

Any death caused during committing a felony is charged to the ones committing the felony.

Charge the two idiots with this girls death.

Allow the family to sue for compensation.

It didn't happen during a felony, it happened somewhere else.

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QueenCarly posted...

Or...or....

Hold the trigger happy idiots who killed her responsible for firing on a vehicle without confirming it was the suspects

Not going to have sympathy for the two jackasses that caused the police to be on such high alert.

XxKrebsxX posted...

Not going to have sympathy for the two jackasses that caused the police to be on such high alert.

lol

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"An investigative grand jury will be impaneled Nov. 18 to begin deciding whether the officers will face criminal charges, according to Stollsteimer."

Godspeed, You! Grand Jury

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XxKrebsxX posted...

Not going to have sympathy for the two jackasses that caused the police to be on such high alert.

High alert doesn't mean you stop actually doing your fucking job (which ensuring that the vehicle they were firing on was indeed the right one happens to be.)

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This is a ESH moment. You can blame the teenagers for trying to shoot each other, while also blaming the cops for recklessly killing someone.

Yes, it's their fault for accidentally killing someone because they fired their guns without confirming their target. That's literally one of the most basic gun safety rules, don't shoot at something you can't clearly see.

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So did the two teens fire their weapons or what? Prosecutors said they started a gunfight, but I don't see anything in the OP about who the two teens were firing at, if any. Were they firing at each other??

If the two teens started firing, they absolutely should be prosecuted. But I also think the cops should be punished for mistakenly firing at vehicle and killing of the 8 year old. Like come on, wtf.

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Another tragedy caused by soulless child-killer cops.

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This is horrible. And they're going for 1st degree!?
Isn't that premeditated murder!?
I don't think even the cops meet that criteria and they're the one's most guilty!
The teens are definitely guilty of something, but if the cops unloaded on a random vehicle that happened to be going their direction, that's at least negligent homicide, and attempted murder of the innocents in the car.
Should be stripped of badges, and jailed for some time.

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What a load of absolute bullshit

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Antifar posted...

but all three have told investigators they opened fire on a vehicle they mistakenly believed was involved in the shooting between Ford and Strand

WTF!?!? If they're not presently shooting, if you can't be sure they are a present threat, what good does shooting at them do?? And then you make a mistake and MURDER a CHILD. But of course they won't be punished for it at all. Disgusting.

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Pigs trying to clean up their mess by blaming somebody else

FratMilkyHolme posted...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/no-charges-colorado-officer-who-killed-hero-who-stopped-mass-n1283532

Well that's just great

Very sad situation

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What if it wasn't the cops, but rather some random "good guy with a gun" the right-wing wanks themselves over?

Would he get off because "Hey, I wouldn't have shot an innocent bystander if it weren't for the other guys"

Come on now...

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HylianFox posted...

What if it wasn't the cops, but rather some random "good guy with a gun" the right-wing wanks themselves over?

Would he get off because "Hey, I wouldn't have shot an innocent bystander if it weren't for the other guys"

Come on now...

I'm actually curious about the legality of this.. are private citizens afforded the same consideration?