Current Events > I don't get this whole "Tax the rich" hype

(+) Yeah! (+)

If by "rich" you're referring to closing tax loopholes that allow billion dollar big business to get away with paying minimal tax, then yes, pretty much everyone agrees.

But what ends up happening is marginal tax rates for upper bracket people increase. Again these are all people that already pay the highest tax rates of anyone else and is already paying their fair share. So claiming these people aren't paying their fair share is just lying and essentially fake news.

And tax advantages for businesses honestly need to stay in place for small businesses to thrive. I'm talking about big business which needs to either pay its workers better wages and benefits or pay the government so the government can take care of those things.

I know everyone here gets all overly sensitive about this stuff. But if you threaten the middle class and upper middle class, they will simply vote the other way. These people are swing voters that will dictate the elections. So democrats, enjoy your power but if you start dividing your own base, its not going to end well. We're going to see Trump part 2.

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Middle and upper middle aren't the rich people we're talking about here.

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Veggeta_MAX posted...

Middle and upper middle aren't the rich people we're talking about here.

Yes, it is. Especially regarding SALT cap.

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Rich people paid higher percentages back when America was great. Us regular people want to go back to those old percentages to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.

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Let me skip to the end result of all of this:

Corporate billionaires and politicians will find the tax loopholes out of any and all "tax hikes" and it will only affect you and me.

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That highest marginal tax has been drastically lowered over the last four decades(longer than that even) and hasnt done the slightest bit of good for anyone except the absolute richest. Saying "they already pay the highest!" removes this vital context.

You not getting why people dont need a second home in a place where workers are constantly fighting for housing tells me all I need to know. These piles of shit dont pay their fair share and constantly coast off the labor of others.

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These billionaires are paying 4% tax. That is not their fair share

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Seems you need to read up.

Bezos, Elon, etc actually don't have to pay taxes at all.
At all. Other than property tax ofc and maybe once in a blue moon. Otherwise, their income is untaxable because they report no income and abuse loans as income.

MaddenDude-- posted...

Again these are all people that already pay the highest tax rates of anyone else and is already paying their fair share.

No, the point is they are not paying their fair share. The tax rates should be much, much higher for that kind of wealth.

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EmbraceOfDeath posted...

that kind of wealth.

what kind of wealth are you talking about

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ShyOx posted...

These billionaires are paying 4% tax. That is not their fair share

Good job on not being able to read.

Maybe worry about literacy before worrying about taxes.

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MaddenDude-- posted...

Maybe worry about literacy before worrying about taxes.

So did you just refuse the plethora of info on how they avoid taxation or did you not understand it?

Phantom36 posted...

Let me skip to the end result of all of this:

Corporate billionaires and politicians will find the tax loopholes out of any and all "tax hikes" and it will only affect you and me.

While true, this is a lot like a pro sports team being like "the other team has been caught cheating so we should just forfeit if we have to play them"

WingsOfGood posted...

So did you just refuse the plethora of info on how they avoid taxation or did you not understand it?

Tbh it seems like he made this topic to complain about the SALT cap again.

Seems like House Dems are moving to remove it though.

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Also fyi, the irs taxes the poor more and has gone on record stating this.
They rarely audit wealthy people as they just hire lawyers. Poor people will just pay the irs.

And then Bezos is the richest man in the world and enjoys his income with paying tax on it.

Hes an alt troll, lets just quit feeding him. He simps for the rich while he blows truckers for quarters

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Jabodie posted...

Tbh it seems like he made this topic to complain about the SALT cap again.

Seems like House Dems are moving to remove it though.

Thats just part of the argument. But I just don't get what the plan is. Its not as simple as, "lets raise marginal tax rates".

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Im curious what you guys consider rich

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WingsOfGood posted...

Also fyi, the irs taxes the poor more and has gone on record stating this.
They rarely audit wealthy people as they just hire lawyers. Poor people will just pay the irs.

And then Bezos is the richest man in the world and enjoys his income with paying tax on it.

The IRS mostly picks on small business owners who claim all kinds of business expenses, not poor people.
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WingsOfGood posted...

Seems you need to read up.

Bezos, Elon, etc actually don't have to pay taxes at all.
At all. Other than property tax ofc and maybe once in a blue moon. Otherwise, their income is untaxable because they report no income and abuse loans as income.

Seems you need to read up. Bezos, Elon, etc, are taxed on their income. Their "wealth" actually comes from stock evaluations, which isn't actual money in their pockets. In fact, Elon Musk had to BORROW money to pay personal bills because he's generally been cash-poor, even as Tesla's shares increase in value.

But honestly, the narratives about the rich needing to pay more are based entirely on deliberate misconceptions so your ignorance is understandable.

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MaddenDude-- posted...

paying their fair share

Nobody knows what that even means, nor bothers to try defining it.

MaddenDude-- posted...

If by "rich" you're referring to closing tax loopholes that allow billion dollar big business to get away with paying minimal tax, then yes, pretty much everyone agrees.

But what ends up happening is marginal tax rates for upper bracket people increase. Again these are all people that already pay the highest tax rates of anyone else and is already paying their fair share. So claiming these people aren't paying their fair share is just lying and essentially fake news.

And tax advantages for businesses honestly need to stay in place for small businesses to thrive. I'm talking about big business which needs to either pay its workers better wages and benefits or pay the government so the government can take care of those things.

I know everyone here gets all overly sensitive about this stuff. But if you threaten the middle class and upper middle class, they will simply vote the other way. These people are swing voters that will dictate the elections. So democrats, enjoy your power but if you start dividing your own base, its not going to end well. We're going to see Trump part 2.

...those two things in bold are like the same thing bro. Those tax advantages are the loopholes
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Also, yes. Middle class needs to ultimately pay more taxes as well
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MaddenDude-- posted...

If by "rich" you're referring to closing tax loopholes that allow billion dollar big business to get away with paying minimal tax, then yes, pretty much everyone agrees.

That's part of it.

But what ends up happening is marginal tax rates for upper bracket people increase. Again these are all people that already pay the highest tax rates of anyone else and is already paying their fair share. So claiming these people aren't paying their fair share is just lying and essentially fake news.

"The 25 richest people in the U.S. saw their wealth rise by $401 billion from 2014 to 2018, but they paid $13.6 billion in federal income taxes. That equates to a true tax rate of 3.4%, ProPublica said.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/income-tax-wealthy-bezos-buffett/

That's just factually incorrect, sir.

And tax advantages for businesses honestly need to stay in place for small businesses to thrive. I'm talking about big business which needs to either pay its workers better wages and benefits or pay the government so the government can take care of those things.

Here's a wild idea... why not both?

I know everyone here gets all overly sensitive about this stuff. But if you threaten the middle class and upper middle class, they will simply vote the other way. These people are swing voters that will dictate the elections. So democrats, enjoy your power but if you start dividing your own base, its not going to end well. We're going to see Trump part 2.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2019/01/11/live-paycheck-to-paycheck-government-shutdown/?sh=6759aa734f10

https://www.businessinsider.com/broke-millennials-living-paycheck-economic-crisis-savings-spending-survey-2021-6

"Seventy percent of the generation said they're living paycheck to paycheck, according to a new survey by PYMNTS and LendingClub, which analyzed economic data and census-balanced surveys of over 28,000 Americans. It found that about 54% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck, but millennials had the biggest broke energy."

Maybe you can help me understand, because I truly do not get people that simp for rich people. Like, do you think you'll be Jeff Bezos one day, so in the off chance that you do find yourself with more money than can be spent over the course of several hundred lifetimes; are you hedging your bet so you won't have to pay higher taxes? Do you think Bezos and Musk only got to where they are because they worked really hard, and you've convinced yourself that making $40k a year is fine because one day you'll take over at the place you work and be a millionaire?

There are roughly 2,300 billionaires in the world, and those 2,300 people have more wealth than the bottom 4.6 billion. Billion, with a B.

So again, what is there to "get" about this? Why do you feel it's acceptable for the planets resources to be controlled by an increasingly small number of wealthy people? Like, surely you can see why that would be a very bad thing, right?

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This topic is clearly not about billionaires

Who are you trying to kid, in the words of someone else

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Jaded_Dragon posted...

"The 25 richest people in the U.S. saw their wealth rise by $401 billion from 2014 to 2018, but they paid $13.6 billion in federal income taxes. That equates to a true tax rate of 3.4%, ProPublica said.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/income-tax-wealthy-bezos-buffett/

Is this just a capital gains thing? Like, they aren't going to pay taxes on wealth creation that hasn't been sold(realized) yet. Unless you're saying a wealth tax is what you're wanting
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emblem boy posted...

Unless you're saying a wealth tax is what you're wanting

Go ask France how that works out.

I wanna tax dat aoc ass!

Phantom36 posted...

Let me skip to the end result of all of this:

Corporate billionaires and politicians will find the tax loopholes out of any and all "tax hikes" and it will only affect you and me.

Pretty much this. Yep.

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Questionmarktarius posted...

Go ask France how that works out.

Your sample size is 1?

Are you a phenomenologist?

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Questionmarktarius posted...

emblem boy posted...

Unless you're saying a wealth tax is what you're wanting

Go ask France how that works out.

I mean, I don't know if I agree with a wealth tax or not but I tend to find that a weak argument. As if policies that went badly can't be improved upon
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MaddenDude-- posted...

Im curious what you guys consider rich

Billionaires

Did you guys hear me when I said I wanna tax dat aoc ass? Ha! Good times.

emblem boy posted...

I mean, I don't know if I agree with a wealth tax or not but I tend to find that a weak argument. As if policies that went badly can't be improved upon

Here's a Barron's article that may be useful, especially the end:
https://www.barrons.com/articles/the-real-problem-with-wealth-taxes-51571413910

The remaining wealth taxes in Switzerland, Norway, and Spain are far lower, but kick in at more modest levels. They also provide a relatively trivial percentage of those nations tax revenue.

voldothegr8 posted...

The IRS mostly picks on small business owners who claim all kinds of business expenses, not poor people.

@voldothegr8
You are incorrect.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/01/31/taxes-2020-audits-most- likely-happen-these-two-groups/4552393002/

Poor taxpayers, or those earning less than $25,000 annually, have an audit rate of 0.69% more than 50% higher than the overall audit rate. It also means low-income taxpayers are more likely to get audited than any other group, except Americans with incomes of more than $500,000.

There is more info on this also. Of I recall a video and propublica reports too.

Curious though, did you merely think that because it fit your bias or something? Just wondering why people are so uninformed about this.

Tax the rich means the rich, not the people who think they are rich because they have the mortgage paid off and two luxury cars. If you can sink a fucking country with your personal wealth then what the fuck is going on

Pointing out that the system is broken and its hard to tax the rich is exactly the point of saying it

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Now before you try to hang onto the "except income anove $500,000"

https://www.propublica.org/article/irs-sorry-but-its-just-easier-and-cheaper-to-audit-the-poor

The IRS audits the working poor at about the same rate as the wealthiest 1%. Now, in response to questions from a U.S. senator, the IRS has acknowledged thats true but professes it cant change anything unless it is given more money.
ProPublica reported the disproportionate audit focus on lower-income families in April. Lawmakers confronted IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig about the emphasis, citing our stories, and Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., asked Rettig for a plan to fix the imbalance. Rettig readily agreed.
Last month, Rettig replied with a report, but it said the IRS has no plan and wont have one until Congress agrees to restore the funding it slashed from the agency over the past nine years something lawmakers have shown little inclination to do.

@voldothegr8

Not that you specifically would try that argument but ceman in general would do that if being disingenous.

Well, it's easier to spend a postage stamp to get a couple thousand dollars, than spend a few million on lawyers and get nothing.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Well, it's easier to spend a postage stamp to get a couple thousand dollars, than spend a few million on lawyers and get nothing.

Yes but that is fucked up and morally wrong.

Most people are asking for increased taxes on those who earn millions (or more), and in particular on those who have ridiculous amounts of wealth that they're just hoarding; not those who earn in the high 5 or low 6 digits.

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WingsOfGood posted...

Yes but that is fucked up and morally wrong.

So... the IRS.

Didn't we just have a President who promised to eliminate the loopholes, how did that go?

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It's just a popular talking point amongst politicians to grow favor among the (not so bright), masses since most people generally lean towards slave morality.


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__starsnostars posted...

Didn't we just have a President who promised to eliminate the loopholes, how did that go?

The same as literally every other politician who's made that promise, not sure why you thought any specific one would be different (nor why any particular one can be singled out as a "gotcha" when all of them do it, if that was your line of thought).

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__starsnostars posted...

Didn't we just have a President who promised to eliminate the loopholes, how did that go?

I don't think most people understand what loopholes actually are
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So the aforementioned President who self-proclaimed knowing the tax loopholes better than anyone else and for that reason could fix the problem... didn't fix the problem?

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The bigger risk of wealth taxes, is the plebs finally realizing how bullshitty property taxes have been this whole time.

It's about taxing the few people (like 10+) of an equal amount as the rest of us. No reason people with Bezos money cant pay an equal percentage in taxes as the rest of us.

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