Current Events > The twist of 'You are actually the villain' hasn't really worked in a video game

(+) Yeah! (+)

No idea how anyone could provide examples to the contrary without spoiling it but I have played three games that I can think of with this twist and all of them were sloppy with it. Basically either have to outright lie to the player or make up a convoluted reason as to why the protagonist doesn't know.

It's hard to get right even for a movie. But even then lying to an audience is easier than lying to a player. We are all meant to be sharing the same head space with the character we're playing as regardless of the game.

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I think they did this in Digital Devil Saga, but its been a while since I played those. I thought it made for a pretty nice twist.

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Shadow of the Colossus

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Have you played Braid? That game did it perfectly.

A very depressing game on the ps3 and ps4 did this well

post #3 nails it

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Final Fantasy Tactics Advance

If you lack a brain

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DespondentDeity posted...

Shadow of the Colossus

Yeah true. That one worked because it's something that gradually hits you as you play along. So it's sort of a bit different.

Ivany2008 posted...

Have you played Braid? That game did it perfectly.

I didn't but I do know about the twist. Actually yeah I think this might be the only one that was done well.

The ones I am referring to are;
Heavy Rain
Bioshock Infinite
Twelve Minutes

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Stop naming games

This is spoilers

Twelve Minutes' twist is the dumbest shit

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Seems to be a pattern that it works best with minimalist games

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Plot twist: In Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2 we already know that we're the villain.

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Kotor technically falls in this category, especially if you go dark side.

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There's a classic Bioware one that did it fine I think.

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Technically you're the villain in nearly any video game.

What kind of monster are you to kill countless enemies and think you're still in the right? I rmemeber playing Tomb Raider and it was just hilarious watching Lara Croft murder tens of hundreds of random guys heartlessly on the island, then proceed to cry when some major character dies

Awesker002 posted...

Kotor technically falls in this category, especially if you go dark side.

Ooh, this is def the one.

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Dark Souls

SH2 and idgaf how many disagree. It was groundbreaking, brilliant, and made you hate James for being such a piece of shit. The dude killed his sick wife because it was easier than caring for her, and convinced himself she just died. That was pretty goddam heavy for the target audience of teenagers, especially when nothing that dark had been done before (insert obscure PC/Anime import game counterpoint) on a mainstream console.

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JKwaffle posted...

Ooh, this is def the one.

I was expecting it a lot sooner, tbh this topic kinda made me want to play a couple other games I previously had little interest in.

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Does castlevania lords of shadow count? It's just as lame story wise as those other games mentioned. They never handle them well story wise but if the gameplay is good thats at least a step up from non games like Heavy Rain.

There's also another game I've never played because it's apparently a card game (No thank you) type Rpg that has this twist? I think it was called baiten kaitos

PoundGarden posted...

SH2 and idgaf how many disagree. It was groundbreaking, brilliant, and made you hate James for being such a piece of shit. The dude killed his sick wife because it was easier than caring for her, and convinced himself she just died. That was pretty goddam heavy for the target audience of teenagers, especially when nothing that dark had been done before (insert obscure PC/Anime import game counterpoint) on a mainstream console.

Yeah that definitely is the great one and potentially the best example so far. Although the Bioware one is great too for different reasons.

I guess the trick with the twist is to not make it directly related to the goal being achieved by the player but by obfuscating it.

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Spec Ops: The Line (sorta)

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A great episode of Black Mirror did this. I wont be specific for spoilers.

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cuh posted...

Bruh.

Yes it has!

Spoilers:
Genre: visual novel
Original system release: PlayStation Portable in Japan, but Vita in USA
Series title: Danganronpa
Full spoilers: the first case of Danganronpa V3 has you playing as the protagonist who also orchestrated the first murder in the game

I absolutely hated that twist.

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Braid did The Thing


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cuh posted...
The twist in the second game of that series is a better example and executed better actually.

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dj1200 posted...

A great episode of Black Mirror did this. I wont be specific for spoilers.

Can you PM me which one you're thinking of?

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Vagrant Story, kind of

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Destroy All Humans?

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There's also a Nintendo published game that sort of fits as well.

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The intro of Final Fantasy 4?
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Arcanine2009 posted...

Destroy All Humans?

I don't think that's much of a twist.

That's like talking about the sudden twist in "The Upstairs Neighbor is the Killer."

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cuh posted...

Bruh.

Yes it has!

Spoilers:
Genre: visual novel
Original system release: PlayStation Portable in Japan, but Vita in USA
Series title: Danganronpa
Full spoilers: the first case of Danganronpa V3 has you playing as the protagonist who also orchestrated the first murder in the game

I don't mind it, and I think it's some pretty great dialogue and characterization, but it's fairly nonsensical that Kaede's internal thoughts just run along a path where it doesn't get mentioned, also the game's attempted justification for having a class trial over the matter is just dumb.

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Spec Ops: The Line


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Prologue of a certain Ubisoft game actually did this somewhat well

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Rampage

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cuh posted...

Bruh.

Yes it has!

Spoilers:
Genre: visual novel
Original system release: PlayStation Portable in Japan, but Vita in USA
Series title: Danganronpa
Full spoilers: the first case of Danganronpa V3 has you playing as the protagonist who also orchestrated the first murder in the game

This is a good way to talk about them without spoiling too much

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Most of the Disgaea games are completely transparent about this.

PS2 action adventure

mgs3 does it well in one spot

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Spec Ops: The Line will always be one of the most underrated stories in gaming, specifically for this. It explores not only this, but also violence in gaming, and player choice as well.

Its extremely well written, and a huge shame it isnt more popular.

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Genre: rpg
Console: gameboy advance
Game: Golden Sun
You find out in the sequel that what the group in the first game was doing was actually the bad thing to do in the long run.

Though really, that's more of an enemies by circumstance type of deal. Literally, once they sat down to talk, they realized the true goal everyone needed to commit to.

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visiny posted...

There's also another game I've never played because it's apparently a card game (No thank you) type Rpg that has this twist? I think it was called baiten kaitos

Agree. I played it. One of the best games. It is not really a card game any more than dungeons and dragons is a dice game.

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There's an indie rpg maker game about trying to survive a kind of haunted house called The Witch's House. If you do an obscure thing during the really frantic finale of the game, you get a secret ending revealing that you were playing as the villain all along. Before the game began, the witch swapped bodies with an innocent girl. You play through the game appearing as that girl. When the person who appears to be the witch chases you at the end of the game, it's actually the girl just trying to get her body back from you. Then there's a heartbreaking final scene as the girl is killed by her own father, who thinks she's the witch. If you don't get the secret ending, you don't learn any of this but the dad still does that lol.

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Kotor

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Nier does this pretty well.

You aren't explicitly the 'bad' guy though. You are, in a sense, I guess. But on your first playthrough, you are the hero. The second reveals that everything is just fucked up and a simple language barrier means lack of understanding.

It's a very nuanced take, anyway, on the whole thing.

And like someone said, Spec Ops: The Line did this masterfully.
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Pepys Monster posted...

Plot twist: In Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2 we already know that we're the villain.

I wouldn't really say heroes and villains are applicable to the Legacy of Kain series. Everyone is basically out for themselves (or is a pawn for someone who is out for themselves).
BO2 Kain wants power, yes. The Hylden also want power. Neither of them care about doing the morally right thing, but does that even matter when there are no 'heroes' to speak of?

At most, Raziel in Soul Reaver 1 seems to deem himself somewhat as doing the morally right thing for the sake of it, but he later discovers that he was manipulated into thinking that, and that there was much more at stake.

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@dj1200 dj1200 posted...

A great episode of Black Mirror did this. I wont be specific for spoilers.

Can you mention just what season it is?