Current Events > The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles 1/2 Current Events Discussion Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

The tone of this case feels basically like a conclusion to the game at this point. I can't believe its only the middle case.

The Tusspells theme slaps something fierce.

Finished chapter 3.

Oh boy. That was... really long. In general there's a theme going on in these games that cases I think start off weak generally end strong. And that was also the case here. I already mentioned how I'd gotten turned around on it along the way. And the ending court sections here were also really good. Especially how it worked for Van Zieks' character. Most of my issues with the case were left behind after the first day and it focused on much more enjoyable elements of the mystery rather than the fucking nonsense. I still think it's one of the "less" great cases, but by no means is it bad. I think the only bad case so far as been the first case in the first game.

Still though, what an absolute shitshow of a defendant. Not the worst one ever. Maggey Byrde and Wocky whatever his name is exists. But jesus christ I wanna punch and murder him for being a shit character. The case improving in quality correlated with his role in it being entirely sidelined.

...That post ending scene though. I guess we'll see where this goes. I see the potential of what they're setting up.

I fucking hate it, though. Only good thing is the implications for Nikolina.

Edit: I'm very curious to Stronghart's reaction to this whole kerfuffle.

Edit: Starting the next case, but only playing it for a small bit. I'm curious, as I believe "His Last Bow" is the book where Sherlock Holmes dies.

I'm kind of imagining that the last case is going to be about proving Genshin innocent.

DeadBankerDream posted...

The tone of this case feels basically like a conclusion to the game at this point. I can't believe its only the middle case.

The Tusspells theme slaps something fierce.

Tusspells is 26, but 10 years ago she already was the proprietor of a museum? What?

It's a family business. She was presumably trained for it from a young age.

I don't recall if it's explicitly stated that she was in charge at 16, either, or if she was just employed there as part of her family tradition.

I'm pretty sure she was saying stuff like "I made the wax figure for MY museum" and stuff. Also I think prior to that it's said that SHE came to London from Paris, not her family.

I keep thinking about Ryutaro's...size.

DeadBankerDream posted...

Oh boy. That was... really long. In general there's a theme going on in these games that cases I think start off weak generally end strong

Agreed. Except for 1-4 where the best part was in the middle.

Oh shit, we doing a Turnabout Goodbyes thing in here. How fucking interesting.

I suppose that means the prosecutor will be Kazuma? That prospect is... less exciting. I'll keep an open mind for this storyline, though, of course.

I'm beginning more and more to feel like there's a giant revelation come crashing down in the last chapter ala sweet gentle Simon being the mastermind in GK2. I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it turns out that Dr. Mikotoba was the actual Professor all along.

I feel like there's a bit of a disconnect in the investigation phases in GAA2. Sometimes they're not put together as well as usually in the series and you're not railroaded as much, which means you might go to a place and talk to someone and then have to leave abruptly without ending the conversation properly because you didn't collect a piece of evidence you need to show them, and then come back later and finish up the conversation. In other games, that encounter would just not be available till you have that evidence. It's not really meaningful freedom as it still plays out with the same conversations and evidence found, it's just you can do it in a minorly random order and it kind of disturbs the flow of dialogue, so I think it's definitely not a positive.

Finished the day one trial. This game sure has a lot of European accents. That's fun.

What's Naruhodo is doing here is definitely wrong. He is following Kazuma on a vendetta that at least so far has no relation to the case being tried. I get kind of frustrated by the fake choices in these games in situations like that. They give me player choice to tell my character to stop being a dickwheel and then just ignore it. Just remove the choice and let me play in the understanding that I'm controlling an individual with his own (wrong) views on what he must do.

The standard facts of the case are kind of boring. The shadow of whats to come looming in the background are more engaging and hopefully they reveal themselves soon.

I'm kind of weirded out by the reuse of character models in the game. Like here they actually do say it's Beppo from that case, but really the only reason it is him is so they can reuse that model. That's fine I guess. But the random person whose hand stuck out from under the curtain at Tusspells' in the last case was one of the jurors of the first jury case, and the porter at the hotel from the beginning of this case was a juror on that same case with no sense that it was the same character. Unless this is a setup and they're tying it all together, it seems kind of cheap.

They had little budget for the second game since the first game (kind of understandably) flopped sales-wise and had very controversial reception. The second game didn't do much better because of that and also the fact that it was on the tail end of the 3DS lifespan. Apparently they were intending to outright cancel the second game before Takumi insisted the story would not be complete without it.

GiftedACIII posted...

had very controversial reception.

What this mean?

Was there at any point any dialogue in this investigation suggesting I ought to show the autopsy report to Kazuma?

>_______________>

DeadBankerDream posted...

What this mean?

A lot of fans who played the initial Japanese release criticized the game.

So apparently, Dr. Mikotoba was present at the autopsy of Van Zieks' brother where the evidence that identified Genshin Asogi as the killer was discovered. Meaning he had the ability to plant it. Hmmm...

Gregson went to France the day before his body was discovered. And Mikotoba and Jigoku's ship was anchored in Dunkirk that day before arriving in Dover on the day of the incident.

I can't help but feel something is fishy here. Maybe there would be a cooling space on a steam ship, I dunno. That giant trunk they had with them when they first arrived at the hotel too.

Hmmm....

f

GiftedACIII posted...

A lot of fans who played the initial Japanese release criticized the game.

Okay, for what reasons. I thought it was pretty good. The only thing I could really see is that it feels fairly incomplete on its own. Or maybe the racism directed towards Japanese people would be upsetting.

Edit: Oh shit, great deduction time? With an obvious character drunk on tea wearing a mask and singing German folk songs.

Man, these great deductions have become better and better lately.

Playing them up for comedic effect is really the way to go with them.

DeadBankerDream posted...

Okay, for what reasons. I thought it was pretty good. The only thing I could really see is that it feels fairly incomplete on its own. Or maybe the racism directed towards Japanese people would be upsetting.

Yeah, incomplete. It wasn't advertised as only the first part of a multi-game arc.

Well damn that was an interesting end to the investigation. I was not expecting this at all. Any of it.

If it turns out that the game brought Kazuma back to life to make him Gregson's killer I am going to fucking riot.

This is uh... this is really dumb. Going really heavy on the kangaroo court elements. Game, pull it back, please. We've only just begun. You can save this case.

One of the best parts in the series. Took two games to build up to that

It was pretty neat.

"On what ground is Kazuma Asogi permitted to continue in his role as prosecutor? He has admitted to colluding with the victim in a plot to assassinate an innocent man."

THANK YOU GAME, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING THE WHOLE SECOND PART OF TRIAL PART ONE!

"Oh, I asked 'please' and the boss said it's fine."

-_-

Would the victim's death even be prosecutable in England? I mean you could prosecute for some conspiracy stuff, I guess, but it sounds like Gregson died while off the coast of France.

I'll be honest, I thought this case was kind of shit and was on the verge of semi ruining the game for me.

But then we discovered that Klint van Zieks might have been the Professor and I'm all in again.

Part 6 would've ended really early if Phoenix was the Defense.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Beautiful

Nearing the new year, I just remembered both these games took place (not really a spoiler but just in case) in less than a year lol.

Okay. I finished the game a while back. A bit after my last post in this topic. I needed some time to compose my thoughts and then Christmas happened.

Overall, the final case of Resolve started out really annoying me, but like most other cases that start out "bad" it pulled it back towards the end. Essentially I think everything involving Jigoku in the case is absolute garbage. He's a completely annoying character whose role is a giant timesink before we get to the actual case. The way he is setup at the start of the game makes it seem like he's going to be significant as a character, but it was just so they could have this minor villain mentioned rather than popping out of complete nowhere. More overarchingly I think the whole assassin exchange program is beyond stupid and a really silly conclusion to the setup of the telegram and Jezaille Brett's whole character. I don't know what to say about it other than it's overengineered and dumb and very unsatisfying.

I absolutely despised what the case did with Kazuma. At the start at least. By the end of it I kind of accepted it and I think it managed to rein in it by the end where it wasn't that bad and his characterization came through in a kind of positive way, but that doesn't redeem how stupid the whole thing is and I still wish they hadn't gone that way with his character. Should they have brought him back at all? I don't know. I'm leaning towards no, but overall I'm okay with it.

Now, basically everything after we get done with the Jigoku prologue is really freaking good. Stronghart is well-utilized. I feel like it's kind of too obvious to make him the big bad, but I guess it's a genre thing and it's fine. He's very well used in the case. Very intimidating in the role of judge. I've heard people say he reminds them of Damon Gant, and I kind of see it, but I fucking hate Damon Gant and Rise from the Ashes as a whole. I think he's a much better version of Damon Gant. No doubt it helps that he's had 2 games of build up rather than just being plopped into a DLC case. In some sense the conclusion kind of seems like an asspull, but I don't really think so. Stronghart plays up his authority and it makes sense to tear it down by simply showing his shenanigans to someone with more authority. The case does a lot of things with technology that seem kind of awkward, but I do think it utilizes them well, or at least for good purposes. That investigative segment on the ship was amazing. Overall I think the story revelations regarding Mikotoba and Iris in the case was some of the best non-trial writing an Ace Attorney game has ever had. Holmes really comes together as a character in these last two cases when the depth of machinations and foresight is revealed. It really shines a different light on his appearances in the rest of the game(s). All that at least makes up somewhat for the early trial part of the case. Or I guess the middle trial part, technically. Honestly, the part before Jigoku is kind of a blur to me.

The ending was really good. I legit teared up when Iris called Sholmes daddy. ;_;. The story concluded the only way I really think it was reasonable to conclude it. It felt really well earned. It was bittersweet but also kind of you know, hopeful for the future. I'm sure they visit Iris and Holmes again. It's kind of weird with the Ace Attorney localization, because it's obviously setting up for Naruhodo returning to Japan and revitalizing the country's legal system and then 100 years in the future we follow his descendant traversing that same legal system. But it doesn't really work when those games take place in America. Also the whole "dark age of the law" dumbfuck plot in Dual Destinies seem out of place with that ending.

Overall I do think it stumbles a bit on the last leg, but it does succeed mostly in righting itself and getting across the goal line in a reasonably great fashion.

These games have been fucking wonderful to play. They work significantly enough different from the standard meandering faire the main series has turned into of late to be great in their own right, but they do also go beyond with thoughtful ways to do cases, especially in the first game with case 2 and 3. I do think I like the first one more than the second but it's kind of hard to separate because most of the first game's setups are resolved until Resolve (see what I did there?).

I'll definitely replay them sometime in 2022, probably the later half. I really can't wait to re-experience them with a fuller understanding of the setups I'm watching. Great series.

My Ace Attorney ranking:

01) Trials and Tribulations
02) The Great Ace Attorney: Adventures
03) The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve
04) Justice for All
05) Miles Edgeworth: Investigations
06) Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
07) Dual Destinies
08) Gyakuten Kenji 2
09) Apollo Justice
10) Professor Layton Vs Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney
11) Spirit of Justice

I think that's all of them.

how is spirit of justice so low?

TwoDoorPC posted...

how is spirit of justice so low?

I really liked Spirit of Justice, but IIRC it's a bit divisive to some of the community.

Hey, it's not your fault Spirit of Justice was awful, wheelchair army girl!

DeadBankerDream posted...

Okay. I finished the game a while back. A bit after my last post in this topic. I needed some time to compose my thoughts and then Christmas happened.

Overall, the final case of Resolve started out really annoying me, but like most other cases that start out "bad" it pulled it back towards the end. Essentially I think everything involving Jigoku in the case is absolute garbage. He's a completely annoying character whose role is a giant timesink before we get to the actual case. The way he is setup at the start of the game makes it seem like he's going to be significant as a character, but it was just so they could have this minor villain mentioned rather than popping out of complete nowhere. More overarchingly I think the whole assassin exchange program is beyond stupid and a really silly conclusion to the setup of the telegram and Jezaille Brett's whole character. I don't know what to say about it other than it's overengineered and dumb and very unsatisfying.

I absolutely despised what the case did with Kazuma. At the start at least. By the end of it I kind of accepted it and I think it managed to rein in it by the end where it wasn't that bad and his characterization came through in a kind of positive way, but that doesn't redeem how stupid the whole thing is and I still wish they hadn't gone that way with his character. Should they have brought him back at all? I don't know. I'm leaning towards no, but overall I'm okay with it.

Now, basically everything after we get done with the Jigoku prologue is really freaking good. Stronghart is well-utilized. I feel like it's kind of too obvious to make him the big bad, but I guess it's a genre thing and it's fine. He's very well used in the case. Very intimidating in the role of judge. I've heard people say he reminds them of Damon Gant, and I kind of see it, but I fucking hate Damon Gant and Rise from the Ashes as a whole. I think he's a much better version of Damon Gant. No doubt it helps that he's had 2 games of build up rather than just being plopped into a DLC case. In some sense the conclusion kind of seems like an asspull, but I don't really think so. Stronghart plays up his authority and it makes sense to tear it down by simply showing his shenanigans to someone with more authority. The case does a lot of things with technology that seem kind of awkward, but I do think it utilizes them well, or at least for good purposes. That investigative segment on the ship was amazing. Overall I think the story revelations regarding Mikotoba and Iris in the case was some of the best non-trial writing an Ace Attorney game has ever had. Holmes really comes together as a character in these last two cases when the depth of machinations and foresight is revealed. It really shines a different light on his appearances in the rest of the game(s). All that at least makes up somewhat for the early trial part of the case. Or I guess the middle trial part, technically. Honestly, the part before Jigoku is kind of a blur to me.

The ending was really good. I legit teared up when Iris called Sholmes daddy. ;_;. The story concluded the only way I really think it was reasonable to conclude it. It felt really well earned. It was bittersweet but also kind of you know, hopeful for the future. I'm sure they visit Iris and Holmes again. It's kind of weird with the Ace Attorney localization, because it's obviously setting up for Naruhodo returning to Japan and revitalizing the country's legal system and then 100 years in the future we follow his descendant traversing that same legal system. But it doesn't really work when those games take place in America. Also the whole "dark age of the law" dumbfuck plot in Dual Destinies seem out of place with that ending.

Overall I do think it stumbles a bit on the last leg, but it does succeed mostly in righting itself and getting across the goal line in a reasonably great fashion.

These games have been fucking wonderful to play. They work significantly enough different from the standard meandering faire the main series has turned into of late to be great in their own right, but they do also go beyond with thoughtful ways to do cases, especially in the first game with case 2 and 3. I do think I like the first one more than the second but it's kind of hard to separate because most of the first game's setups are resolved until Resolve (see what I did there?).

I'll definitely replay them sometime in 2022, probably the later half. I really can't wait to re-experience them with a fuller understanding of the setups I'm watching. Great series.

Edit: I also did the escapades. They're pretty fun, but not really memorable.

Also some thoughts about the games overall. I think the localization is absolutely amazing. The dialogue feels genuine and authentic. I like how they didn't shy away from archaicisms. There were quite a number of times I had to Merriam Webster terms and words. The accenting of Gina's dialogue is really good. It did a wonderful job transporting you to that era and world. Which is weird considering the old games literally changed the entire setting to avoid that. Really good.

Overall I think the only bad case in the series is the first one in the first game. Some of the others start out rough for me, but they all manage to salvage themselves by the end other than that one. It was just so long and it didn't manage to justify its length via case intrigue interesting characters. The two restaurant witnesses were incredibly boring. And they didn't really utilize the dual witness mechanicsm. I think the case did it once or so. It works well for establishing Kazuma and Naruhodo. Especially developing Naruhodo through his amazing animations. But that does not justify the overall length. I would have liked it to be 90 minutes shorter. Maybe 2 hours, but that might be too much.

I really like how the series rethinks concepts that are common to the franchise. I like how Van Zieks is not this undisputed prodigy. He loses cases and didn't start prosecuting at age 11. He remains a thoroughly intimidating presence through the Reaper narrative. And the way Naruhodo views the whole "believe in your client" concept is just so much more appealing than usual. It's not treated like a dumb lawyer's maxim, or statement of belief, but rather how Naruhodo finds his personal strength to go on when it looks bleak. I believe my client, so there's a way forward, vs I have to believe my client because I'm a lawyer. It's much better.

Yeah, I think the "extra trial" is more of a spectacle over substance thing. The assassins exchange makes absolutely zero chance on retrospect and Stronghart confesses so easily it seems like he was waiting for the chance his whole life. All his moments are strong though, as was his new animations as he started revealing his true colors. Also coolest breakdown in the series. The Professor twist was nice but on retrospect both Klint and Genshin were kind of idiots.
But yeah, the characterization was this game's strength. Mikotoba especially. He became a surprise protagonist when the first game made him come off as ominous. Also Van Zieks despite being racist and prejudiced against Ryunosuke is the most helpful prosecutor after Klavier lol. He helps you immediately in your first trial when even Edgeworth had to take until the next case before he started helping Wright.

One thing to consider *Major spoilers*

Phoenix being such a great natural detective makes a ton of sense because he has fucking Mikotba/Watson's blood in his genes lol