Current Events > Anti-homeless people* measures may be the single greatest civic failing of usa

(+) Yeah! (+)

Vicious_Dios posted...

averagejoel posted...

then maybe housing should be a public service rather than a for-profit enterprise

Wow! What a great suggestion, but, as usual and not surprising... no solution.

Womp

He literally gave his solution in his post, you just don't like it and the implications

nemu posted...

While we can definitely do a much better job providing assistance to the homeless, there will always be a chunk that can truly not be helped, whether due to mental illness, substance abuse, violence, or whatever else.

I just lost a brain cell reading this. You realize that they can be helped by giving them access to quality mental health treatment?


---

Isn't it "illegal" to be homeless?

---

CRON posted...

I just lost a brain cell reading this. You realize that they can be helped by giving them access to quality mental health treatment?

You do not get USA healthcare.

---

then maybe they should get jobs if they don't like it or they can live in the forest

---

WalkingLobsters posted...

then maybe they should get jobs if they don't like it or they can live in the forest

They won't hire someone who hasn't have a bath in a week (because they have no shower. Or clothes. Or anything else.)

---

CRON posted...

I just lost a brain cell reading this. You realize that they can be helped by giving them access to quality mental health treatment?

Will you hire someone to stay with them 24/7 to make sure the keep up on their meds? There are definitely people out there who can likely bounce back if they're given the help we're currently not giving them, but there are those who will not respond to that help. We can do much better than we're currently doing in terms of the number of shelters, resources for addiction, resources for mental health, and resources for housing, education, and jobs, but there are lost causes out there.

nemu posted...

Will you hire someone to stay with them 24/7 to make sure the keep up on their meds? There are definitely people out there who can likely bounce back if they're given the help we're currently not giving them, but there are those who will not respond to that help. We can do much better than we're currently doing in terms of the number of shelters, resources for addiction, resources for mental health, and resources for housing, education, and jobs, but there are lost causes out there.

Do you know how job interviews work?

---

MI4 REAL posted...

Do you know how job interviews work?

I'm not sure what you think I said.

Conflict posted...

Actually I think he does, considering he's arguing that USA doesn't have quality healthcare. The dude is literally agreeing with you.

I'm kinda drunk. And this shit just keeps pissing me off.

BTW, look up "chargemaster"

---

nemu posted...

I'm not sure what you think I said.

It's gotten harder since then. Also they are looking for the "right" candidates.

In fast food, they require you to cover your tattoos, irregardless of your personality, or your tats in general. (I got none)

They also require you to be clean shaven, but the GMs did not need to do that at all.

---

MI4 REAL posted...

It's gotten harder since then. Also they are looking for the "right" candidates.

In fast food, they require you to cover your tattoos, irregardless of your personality, or your tats in general. (I got none)

They also require you to be clean shaven, but the GMs did not need to do that at all.

Idealistically, this help would come with free classes dealing in resources on obtaining work, workshops to form connections with prospective businesses who can take the time to train these people on the government's dime, etc. Ultimately, such measures cannot have a 100% success rate, but a major push for something like that would definitely be a lot better than the current situation.

Capitalism teaches to hate the poor sadly.

---

Mass incarceration always struck me as America's biggest civic issue. Though you also have lack of affordable healthcare, housing crisis and income inequality in general, mass circumcision, terrorism and extremist groups (coupled with loose gun control), etc.

treewojima posted...

He literally gave his solution in his post, you just don't like it and the implications

That guy is probably the dumbest goober I've ever seen on this website. Its like if all of humanity's worst traits wore diapers, and then deposited the used ones in a garbage can, and the garbage can came to life.

---

You can't help those who don't want help. There are tons of programs to help them but most don't use them.

---

Monolith1676 posted...

You can't help those who don't want help. There are tons of programs to help them but most don't use them.

Programs that rely on getting people "ready" for housing are not that effective.

The solution to homelessness is affordable housing.

---

As someone who took someone who was about to be homeless into my home, anyone that suggests that is a disgrace. Its a huge financial burden on an individual that can be actually managed on a large scale if the legislation was put in place.

Monolith1676 posted...

You can't help those who don't want help. There are tons of programs to help them but most don't use them.

True, most people are homeless due to unwillingness to do what's right for themselves.

In other words it's a huge part mental illness...

MabusIncarnate posted...

What kills me is how much money they spend on it when instead they can just put it into renting an abandoned warehouse and buying like 50 cots or something and making an effort to give them somewhere to go instead of trying to thwart their efforts to do basic human things like sleep. It's probably not the best example but you get the point. They invest on making life harder for them instead of attempting to find some kind of humane solution. They are people, not vermin.

It's not that easy. As others have said, mental health is an issue, and if you put a bunch of people like that in the same space without adaquate care and supervision, even the homeless can be afraid of going in for fear they'll be robbed of what little they have, catch some communal disease, or just have a fight break out.

Having worked with that population a bit, I can tell you the mental health care they need is an uphill battle to rival Sisyphus. It isn't "pop pills and you're normal". There's usually a long struggle to unlearn bad habits, overcome brain chemistry, and accept the world kind of sucks but you don't get to take it out on others, on top of the big barrier with some getting them to quit the substance abuse. I know that sounds like a right wing talking point, but I saw it happen: quit the weed or you can't come in anymore did have people prefer the streets. Some are at a developmental level and they legitimately need full time care that isn't always affordable, nor do they even want it.

As such I understand some of these measures while not agreeing with them. Some people can be so vested in their anger and self pity they can get a hand up and slap it away for not being easy enough, and the world has to adapt.

Oh, and I can't say take one into your home, but a big challenge in that field is staff. It's often low pay and extremely stressful, so maybe apply and do better if anyone thinks they can.

---

there actually were small shelter houses built here that anyone could use. they ended up going largely unused and just got trashed up and vandalized, iirc

it's a complex problem, and one that the computer chair freedom fighters of CE won't ever have a real solution for

---

The Homeless should be helped but its not that easy, You can't just invite someone whose homeless off the street, they will steal everything of value that they possibly can. They aren't going to think about what is right or wrong they are just gonna do it, they already don't have nothing to lose, this is why most people aren't going to let a random homeless person stay with them.

---

lightwarrior78 posted...

I know that sounds like a right wing talking point, but I saw it happen: quit the weed or you can't come in anymore did have people prefer the streets.

That's one reason housing shouldn't be conditioned on being clean. I.e., housing first

---

People need to do something about this! Not me though.

---

Squall28 posted...

People need to do something about this! Not me though.

Why are you assuming I'm not doing anything about it?

What counts as doing something about it?

---

On private property this should absolutely be allowed.

But public areas like parks, just having someone making sure they aren't harassing anyone should be fine

---

Balrog0 posted...

Why are you assuming I'm not doing anything about it?

What counts as doing something about it?

If you are doing something about it, good for you. Not talking about you. Comment was aimed at people who probably doesn't even pay enough taxes to cover what they take out from the system.

---

I feel like my area (Denver metro) has gone from broadly sympathetic to basically dismissive and disgusted by visibly homeless people. The ones you see are drug addicts that would rather live in a tent 20 degrees below freezing than live in a shelter that doesn't allow them to openly shoot heroin.

There is no amount of money you could give them that would take away their addiction or satisfy them and they don't want or need money or food or shelter they just need drugs. My Mom is a super religious Catholic and donates to and serves food at the the Denver rescue mission and would give out these certificates that would let people get extra food from the food bank in the area near where she worked and when she gave it to homeless people with a sign they would spit on her for giving them a voucher for food. Because they aren't hungry for food they are hungry for their drug of choice.

I work with the assumption that the homeless I see begging for $ are all drug addicts with a black hole in their hearts minds and souls that will eat 1,000 just as quick as $100 and the more cash I give them the quicker they will kill themselves.

Atralis posted...

The ones you see are drug addicts that would rather live in a tent 20 degrees below freezing than live in a shelter that doesn't allow them to openly shoot heroin.

Yeah, man. That's why we should house them first, and then work on their addiction. You literally cannot convince an addict up front to stop. But it's cheaper in the long run to house people with supportive services on site than to let them just kill themselves in the streets.

I'm not saying it's easy, but the solution isn't complicated so much as political. If we funded this stuff through pubic revenue directly, through higher taxes if necessary, that would work best.

---

Balrog0 posted...

Yeah, man. That's why we should house them first, and then work on their addiction. You literally cannot convince an addict up front to stop. But it's cheaper in the long run to house people with supportive services on site than to let them just kill themselves in the streets.

You're living in a dream world.

Balrog0 posted...

Yeah, man. That's why we should house them first, and then work on their addiction. You literally cannot convince an addict up front to stop. But it's cheaper in the long run to house people with supportive services on site than to let them just kill themselves in the streets.

I'm not saying it's easy, but the solution isn't complicated so much as political. If we funded this stuff through pubic revenue directly, through higher taxes if necessary, that would work best.

I don't think it's really possible to house an active addict who has lost control to the point of homelessness unless they're being forced to detox or have sought help themselves. You're at best creating a situation where they're going to wreck a viable living environment for someone who actually wants the help, or worst case just creating a possible crime scene (other than the existence of the drugs).

Tactical_Spork posted...

Why

To make non poor people feel superior.

Balrog0 posted...

Yeah, man. That's why we should house them first, and then work on their addiction. You literally cannot convince an addict up front to stop. But it's cheaper in the long run to house people with supportive services on site than to let them just kill themselves in the streets.

I'm not saying it's easy, but the solution isn't complicated so much as political. If we funded this stuff through pubic revenue directly, through higher taxes if necessary, that would work best.

Speaking as someone with a sibling that is a heroin addict I would honestly rather they be locked up for using. Make a special jail for people are addicts and keep them there for however long it takes to get them clean and test them for the rest of their lives. Just giving them housing is a slow suicide.

My parents made enough money to keep my sister off the street but her little condo turned into a drug den and she ended up losing everything and ending up in prison even with them 'keeping her off the streets'. Housing is not a magic pill to solve this crisis. Its a drug problem not a problem of rent prices. 'Anti Homelessness legislation' is literally legilslation that forces heroin addicts to actually come to a reckoning a little bit earlier. This is America. There are shelters everywhere. The people caught out living in the streets NEED to smoke meth every day, they NEED to shoot heroin every day. Lets not lie here. This isn't a housing crisis. This is a drug crisis.

The people you see in a tent aren't there because Mc"donalds doesn't pay enough its because a heroin habit costs between $500 and $50,000 a month depending on how quick you want to kill yourself.

Holy shit, just shut the fuck up

I was recently reading some articles about the homelessness problem in America. A large portion of chronic homeless people have mental health problems or drug addiction. The only long-term solution may be forced residency in mental health/rehab facilities, but afaik, Americas mental health services are garbage. The remaining homeless population would benefit from additional social safety nets, temp housing, job programs, etc.

So the problem isnt getting fixed any time soon.

---

As someone who has been homeless for almost four years now, yeah, America is fucked when it comes to solutions.

Upwards mobility is literally a myth.
---

Inferno Dive Dragoon posted...

As someone who has been homeless for almost four years now, yeah, America is fucked when it comes to solutions.

Upwards mobility is literally a myth.

It is not a myth at all. I went from making $6.75/hr in 2004 at my first job to my current job making $32.18/hr. Keeping my head down and taking opportunities helped me get where I am at. I even got laid off in November of 2007 when the economy started to hit the skids.

---

Yeah homelessness is bad but what can you do???? Who even knows why there are so many homeless people here, it is a mystery.

Monolith1676 posted...

It is not a myth at all. I went from making $6.75/hr in 2004 at my first job to my current job making $32.18/hr. Keeping my head down and taking opportunities helped me get where I am at. I even got laid off in November of 2007 when the economy started to hit the skids.

Your anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove the myth.

DravenRainrix posted...

This is known as the "fuck you jack, I'm alright" attitude.
People with this attitude should always remember,
"there but for the grace of God...."

Thanks now I know how to tell other people this in a succinct way, its called a fuck you jack im alright attitude
Good looking out thanks

---

The rise of meth heads here really destroyed public empathy and tolerance for the homeless as a whole unfortunately.

I mean i get it. Needles everywhere and theft has skyrocketed. And the meth heads are often the most visible of the homeless population.

But it sucks that people largely seem to have forgotten that there are decent people in that population too.

---

Atralis posted...

I work with the assumption that the homeless I see begging for $ are all drug addicts with a black hole in their hearts minds and souls that will eat 1,000 just as quick as $100 and the more cash I give them the quicker they will kill themselves.

Someone here has a black hole in their heart, sure

---

CanuckCowboy posted...

The rise of meth heads here really destroyed public empathy and tolerance for the homeless as a whole unfortunately.

I mean i get it. Needles everywhere and theft has skyrocketed. And the meth heads are often the most visible of the homeless population.

But it sucks that people largely seem to have forgotten that there are decent people in that population too.

"the rise of seriously mentally ill people here really destroyed public empathy and tolerance for the homeless as a whole unfortunately."

"I mean i get it. Needles everywhere and theft has skyrocketed. And the seriously mentally ill people are often the most visible of the homeless population."

---

Not sure what you're getting at dude.

Also mentally ill people made up a significant portion of the homeless way before meth came along.

---

How can some of you be so cruel and nearsighted?

---

Substance abuse and mental health issues, while traditionally the biggest cause of homelessness, do not explain the rise in numbers or the insanely uneven distribution (over 20% of homeless people in this country are in California).

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Substance abuse and mental health issues, while traditionally the biggest cause of homelessness, do not explain the rise in numbers or the insanely uneven distribution (over 20% of homeless people in this country are in California).

I would assume that warmer states in general have high levels of homeless people. The relatively mild winters here mean we have a higher portion than the national average as well.


---

Broseph_Stalin posted...

Substance abuse and mental health issues, while traditionally the biggest cause of homelessness, do not explain the rise in numbers or the insanely uneven distribution (over 20% of homeless people in this country are in California).

Also worth noting for both drugs and mental illness, it's never obvious if that came before or after homelessness.