Current Events > Wait why do people want murderers and sexual assaulters to not be punished?

(+) Yeah! (+)

We should definitely focus on rehabilitation when it comes to those who commit other types of smaller crimes such as thievery, hard drug use, drug use, revenge assault, etc.

But if you murder or assault someone innocent you deserve punishment (aka the current prison system). Also if you focused on strictly rehabilitation for murderers and such then we would only see more of these types of crimes in the future (assuming all else is equal). If anything, I'm sure plenty of people are currently deterred from committing these types of heinous crimes because they are aware their own lives will basically be over.

Correct me if I misunderstood anything about rehabilitation versus punishment.

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Statistics and data shows rehab works better than punishment. However, emotionally, most folks (like you) prefer punishment regardless.

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IdiotMachine posted...

Statistics and data shows rehab works better than punishment. However, emotionally, most folks (like you) prefer punishment regardless.

Yeah works better for that individual who committed the crime obviously but it encourages more crime overall so that's a net negative

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TrevorLawrence posted...

Also if you focused on strictly rehabilitation for murderers and such then we would only see more of these types of crimes in the future (assuming all else is equal).

and yet normal countries have less murder than usa

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Because they're politicians and we respect our politicians, like fucking chumps.

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User Since: Dec 2020
Karma: 28
Active Posts: 10

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Choco posted...

and yet normal countries have less murder than usa

Right - but that has nothing to do with the punishment / rehab system and instead has to do with other programs and policies to ensure crimes aren't committed as often in the first place.

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TrevorLawrence posted...

Yeah works better for that individual who committed the crime obviously but it encourages more crime overall so that's a net negative

No it doesn't and it's obvious you don't have any interest in trying to be corrected. Many programs that aim for rehabilitation show success at curbing recidivism and stopping criminal behavior.

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TrevorLawrence posted...

Yeah works better for that individual who committed the crime obviously but it encourages more crime overall so that's a net negative

Nope.

If that were the case the usa would have the lowest crime rates of any first world country. But hey ignore logic by all means.


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Choco posted...

User Since: Dec 2020
Karma: 28
Active Posts: 10

I had to make this account to represent potential future GOAT (or bust) Trevor Lawrence as he enters the NFL.

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I don't know if I've met someone who doesn't want rapists and murderers to be punished

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CanuckCowboy posted...

Nope.

If that were the case the usa would have the lowest crime rates of any first world country. But hey ignore logic by all means.

The US has more crime because of the actual policies, procedures, education, socioeconomics at play that encourage crime in the first place - not necessarily about the punishment system.

Also, I agree that using rehab instead of punishment is proven to actually help for smaller crimes (aka not murder and severe assault of innocent people).


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TrevorLawrence posted...

Right - but that has nothing to do with the punishment / rehab system and instead has to do with other programs and policies to ensure crimes aren't committed as often in the first place.

That sounds like something you just made up and shat out of your butt and then licked clean and posted.
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hockeybub89 posted...

I don't know if I've met someone who doesn't want rapists and murderers to be punished

You probably have on this board

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TrevorLawrence posted...

Also if you focused on strictly rehabilitation for murderers and such then we would only see more of these types of crimes in the future (assuming all else is equal).

Explain. The purpose of rehabilitation is prevention.

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TrevorLawrence posted...

but it encourages more crime overall so that's a net negative

[Citation needed]

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Depends, do you want justice or revenge?

DeadBankerDream posted...

That sounds like something you just made up and shat out of your butt and then licked clean and posted.

And then he realized he wasn't done shitting after all and had to sit back down...

TrevorLawrence posted...

The US has more crime because of the actual policies, procedures, education, socioeconomics at play that encourage crime in the first place - not necessarily about the punishment system.

Also, I agree that using rehab instead of punishment is proven to actually help for smaller crimes (aka not murder and severe assault of innocent people).

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EnvoyOfTheLight posted...

Explain. The purpose of rehabilitation is prevention.

For that respective individual who committed the crime in the first place. That doesn't change anything about other potential future murderers. Other programs that focus more on education and prevention are doing the work you are talking about.


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TrevorLawrence posted...

For that respective individual who committed the crime in the first place. That doesn't change anything about other potential future murderers. Other programs that focus more on education and prevention are doing the work you are talking about.

Yyes? Regardless of where the rehab is coming from, the purpose is to prevent these predators from doing shit again. Punishment doesn't seem to have a great track record, but feel free to prove me wrong on that.

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EnvoyOfTheLight posted...

Yyes? Regardless of where the rehab is coming from, the purpose is to prevent these predators from doing shit again. Punishment doesn't seem to have a great track record, but feel free to prove me wrong on that.

It's like he's also purposefully ignoring that harsher punishment against crime actually causes more crimes. States with the death penalty for example have higher rates of murder than states without the death penalty.

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I like the part where tc constantly pretends harsh punishments deter crimes when thats been proven false time and again dating back decades.


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EnvoyOfTheLight posted...

Yyes? Regardless of where the rehab is coming from, the purpose is to prevent these predators from doing shit again. Punishment doesn't seem to have a great track record, but feel free to prove me wrong on that.

Right - it discourages the smaller population of existing criminals from doing it again but only encourages the much larger general population to commit more crimes so it's a net negative.

Holy_Cloud105 posted...

It's like he's also purposefully ignoring that harsher punishment against crime actually causes more crimes. States with the death penalty for example have higher rates of murder than states without the death penalty.

That's because of other policies and systems in place in those states in the first place, not because of the end punishment result. You're falsely creating an association with that correlation.

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oh, this is Kanjo coming hot from his warn for being horrendously transphobic right? makes sense

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I agree with OP, fuck criminals

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It seems like they do feel that way while at the same time want to punish the most vulnerable, the unborn

CanuckCowboy posted...

I like the part where tc constantly pretends harsh punishments deter crimes when thats been proven false time and again dating back decades.

It only discourages for that individual. It encourages it for the population as a whole.

In the situations where you are pointing out other countries you are ignoring the fact that the actual initial policies in place are what is causing lower crime rates so people don't commit them in the first place. All else equal, punishment for the most heinous crimes only results in lower crimes committed again by those same individuals, but results in higher crime rates by the population as a whole.

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Frolex posted...

oh, this is Kanjo coming hot from his warn for being horrendously transphobic right? makes sense

Idk who that is. I'm mostly a lurker on my main account anyways so you guys wouldn't know who I am either way.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Oh I agree that they shouldn't be tortured. I'm talking about people that don't want murderers and such to even go to prison in the first place and pretty much straight to rehab.

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TrevorLawrence posted...

The US has more crime because of the actual policies, procedures, education, socioeconomics at play that encourage crime in the first place - not necessarily about the punishment system.

The US has more crime because too much is illegal.

TrevorLawrence posted...

It only discourages for that individual. It encourages it for the population as a whole.

In the situations where you are pointing out other countries you are ignoring the fact that the actual initial policies in place are what is causing lower crime rates so people don't commit them in the first place. All else equal, punishment for the most heinous crimes only results in lower crimes committed again by those same individuals, but results in higher crime rates by the population as a whole.

Wasn't talking about any specific countries just a general fact that has been proven time and again in the US and elsewhere.

Also you're now admitting that harsher punishments don't deter or prevent crime?

Cool. I guess thats /topic then.

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CanuckCowboy posted...

Wasn't talking about any specific countries just a general fact that has been proven time and again in the US and elsewhere.

Also you're now admitting that harsher punishments don't deter or prevent crime?

Cool. I guess thats /topic then.

No I agree with you that rehabilitation over punishment 100% improves crime rates for the individual that committed the crime, but it overall increases crime for the population since there is less of a deterrent.

That's why I agree with rehabilitation for crimes such as stealing, drug use, etc but disagree with it for the worst crimes.

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Revnir posted...

Compare recidivism rates to countries that focus on punishment with those of countries that focus on rehabilitation.

Then shut up.

I already agreed it's better for the individual - we aren't talking about individuals we are talking about the collective. Collectively, it only encourages more crime which outweighs the benefit of individual recidivism.

Also, I've stated this a few times but keep in mind I am only talking about the worst crimes. I agree rehab should be the way for lesser crimes such as drug use, stealing, etc.

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"Wow criminals get rehabilitated. Better go and do a crime since that's pretty fucking cool."

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Choco posted...

and yet normal countries have less murder than usa

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

Here are the 10 countries with the highest homicide rates:

1. El Salvador (82.84 per 100k people)
2. Honduras (56.52 per 100k people)
3. Venezuela (56.33 per 100k people)
4. United States Virgin Islands (49.26 per 100k people)
5. Jamaica (47.01 per 100k people)
6. Lesotho (41.25 per 100k people)
7. Belize (37.60 per 100k people)
8. Saint Vincent And The Grenadines (36.46 per 100k people)
9. Saint Kitts And Nevis (34.23 per 100k people)
10. South Africa (33.97 per 100k people)

TrevorLawrence posted...

No I agree with you that rehabilitation over punishment 100% improves crime rates for the individual that committed the crime, but it overall increases crime for the population since there is less of a deterrent.

That's why I agree with rehabilitation for crimes such as stealing, drug use, etc but disagree with it for the worst crimes.

The your response to my post made zero sense since my post was point out the fact that harsh punishments do literally fucking nothing to decrease crime rates whatsoever.

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In summary you are wrong and have literally no idea wtf you're talking about and your take has been proven wrong over and over dating back literal decades.


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TrevorLawrence posted...

, but it overall increases crime for the population since there is less of a deterrent.

where is this coming from

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EnvoyOfTheLight posted...

where is this coming from

the bizarre delusion that draconian sentencing and a nigh-intentional anti-convict stigma doesn't just lead to persistent recidivism.

Did calypso post or does some other poster have me blocked?

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JohnDillermand posted...

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/murder-rate-by-country

Here are the 10 countries with the highest homicide rates:

1. El Salvador (82.84 per 100k people)
2. Honduras (56.52 per 100k people)
3. Venezuela (56.33 per 100k people)
4. United States Virgin Islands (49.26 per 100k people)
5. Jamaica (47.01 per 100k people)
6. Lesotho (41.25 per 100k people)
7. Belize (37.60 per 100k people)
8. Saint Vincent And The Grenadines (36.46 per 100k people)
9. Saint Kitts And Nevis (34.23 per 100k people)
10. South Africa (33.97 per 100k people)

He meant first world countries

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Oh, TC is Kanjo. Explains the stench of putrid shit that follows all his posts.
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refmon posted...

He meant first world countries

He specifically said "normal" countries. So was he being racist?

CanuckCowboy posted...

In summary you are wrong and have literally no idea wtf you're talking about and your take has been proven wrong over and over dating back literal decades.

The studies you are referring to are typically related to making current forms of punishment marginally stronger (ex) 15 years in prison for a specific crime instead of 13 years) and the end result was that it did not reduce crimes because criminals did not know about the specific details of the laws anyways:

"Increasing the severity of punishment does little to deter crime. Laws and policies designed to deter crime by focusing mainly on increasing the severity of punishment are ineffective partly because criminals know little about the sanctions for specific crimes."

Source: https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/five-things-about-deterrence

The only thing we know is that the death penalty may or may not deter crime but they can't properly research it because there are so many other variables at play and researchers think that most criminals assume they'll be able to forever game the system while on death row so they don't care anyways.

I'm not advocating for the death penalty regardless. I'm saying if you turn a punishment into only rehabilitation for the most heinous crimes, people will be fully aware that they won't face full punishment and crime as a whole within the population will go up. That's the whole reason why we have feedback systems in the first place obviously.

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DeadBankerDream posted...

Oh, TC is Kanjo. Explains the stench of putrid shit that follows all his posts.

Idk who Kanjo is or why their posts suck but my posts aren't that bad >_>

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