Current Events > Am I right in saying that it's rare nowadays to get a job in your own merit?

(+) Yeah! (+)

at least a decent job

IIRC the ability to get a majority of decent jobs are mainly connections and who you know.

Other people I know are arguing with me and saying that you dont need to know anyone and that its easy to get a decent job if on your own merit if you have the qualifications

The problem is though.... the job market is so competitive that it will be twice (maybe 3 times) as hard to get a decent job without knowing people

The only jobs available on Indeed that you can get without connections are the jobs nobody really wants in my experience

Its even harder to get a job as a higher up at a company without knowing people. Good luck becoming CEO or any level C employee purely on your own merit.

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bump

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i got my current software engineer job without "knowing anyone". i applied, interviewed and i was hired.

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most millennials just dont know the right way to job hunt

you have to get off the internet, pound the pavement, walk into an office, find the boss man, hand him your resume, look him in the eye, give him a firm handshake, and tell him "im your man"
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The higher up you go, the more important it is that you know people.

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When was the time period where getting a job was more meritocratic?
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emblem boy posted...

When was the time period where getting a job was more meritocratic?

it was a lot easier to get work in the baby boomer era when you can get a job straight out of HS that pays enough to live your own life

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I'd consider starting low, getting to know people internally and be liked so you can climb as merit.

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Philoktetes posted...

most millennials just dont know the right way to job hunt

you have to get off the internet, pound the pavement, walk into an office, find the boss man, hand him your resume, look him in the eye, give him a firm handshake, and tell him "im your man"

You must be trolling. This isn't the 90s anymore lol. If you walk into an office with your resume they'll just tell you to apply online. They'd look at you like you're an idiot who can't follow simple instructions

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AzNDarkSamurai posted...

emblem boy posted...

When was the time period where getting a job was more meritocratic?

it was a lot easier to get work in the baby boomer era when you can get a job straight out of HS that pays enough to live your own life

What's that have to do with meritocracy though.

Like, I'm fine agreeing that it was easier in the past for some people, but I wouldn't say it was more meritocratic
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Megaman50100 posted...

I'd consider starting low, getting to know people internally and be liked so you can climb as merit.

Thats not truly merit because that still involves getting the right people on your side to climb up

Even if you are talented, it doesnt matter at all if no one will vouch for you.

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Giant_Aspirin posted...

i got my current software engineer job without "knowing anyone". i applied, interviewed and i was hired.

This

in fact I did a complete career switch into software engineering without any prior work experience

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Talent/merit would be rewarded if these jobs actually required talent or merit. (IE why you see degreeless connectionless software engineers getting jobs through their portfolio)

These coveted easy office jobs where you send some emails, answer the phones and maybe do a little excel here and there... It doesn't matter whether you had a 2.4 GPA or a 4.0 GPA, you can still do the job. If you're the business owner, there's really no advantage to hiring a rando with a high GPA over your friend or another employee's kid. In fact it probably makes you worse off to hire a rando who may not be a cultural fit.

That being said, a 4.0 from an elite university is absolutely going to open doors for you without needing connections. (You should build those connections anyway, of course)

The general population was fooled into believing that fortune 500 companies were foaming at the mouth for people who got B+'s at second-or-third-best-in-the-state-state-university

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Feline_Heart posted...

You must be trolling. This isn't the 90s anymore lol. If you walk into an office with your resume they'll just tell you to apply online. They'd look at you like you're an idiot who can't follow simple instructions

"You're looking at me like Im stupid. But maybe I'm just stupid enough to make this thing work"

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Yup. Gotta know people for even entry level shit now not back in the 40s-90s

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Lost_All_Senses posted...

"You're looking at me like Im stupid. But maybe I'm just stupid enough to make this thing work"

lol You would just be looked at like you were crazy. Sad but true.

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It straight up depends on your field.

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D. Its just easier if youve got an in.

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You could become a nurse. I don't think my wife has ever left a job where she didn't get a new one the next day.

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AzNDarkSamurai posted...

at least a decent job

IIRC the ability to get a majority of decent jobs are mainly connections and who you know.

Other people I know are arguing with me and saying that you dont need to know anyone and that its easy to get a decent job if on your own merit if you have the qualifications

The problem is though.... the job market is so competitive that it will be twice (maybe 3 times) as hard to get a decent job without knowing people

The only jobs available on Indeed that you can get without connections are the jobs nobody really wants in my experience

Its even harder to get a job as a higher up at a company without knowing people. Good luck becoming CEO or any level C employee purely on your own merit.

If this is true then your country is broken. There are other, better ones out there.


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Speaking for myself, every single job I have ever got, I've gotten on my own merit. I never knew anyone at the new company, I never had an "in" or anything. I just applied, aced the interview, and got the job. Including the job offer that I just accepted a week and a half ago. And I make 6 figures. Same goes for my brother.

Edit: And over the years, I've worked at 5 places since getting out of college. Every time I was searching for a job, I usually ended up with 2-3 offers, including this last go round.

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I thought I got my initial foot in the door because I met the person who posted the job listing a few years before at a conference, but it turns out that while he was scheduled for my session back then he didn't show up so I didn't actually ever meet him

So it seems like it was merit based except my skin is dark so maybe it was the big bad boogeyman affirmative action that did me a solid

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My company has so much nepotism it's embarrassing. It seems like more people here are related than not.

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AzNDarkSamurai posted...

lol You would just be looked at like you were crazy. Sad but true.

"I might be crazy but maybe Im just crazy eno-hey,wha, get your hands off me!"

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i got my last two jobs on my own merit

current job is a security job. i dont think that one counts because its a dead end entry level shit show of a job.

last job was IT helpdesk. still not super amazing, but the pay was good and i got a few years of experience from it.

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Conflict posted...

He clearly wasn't being serious about that suggestion dude.

My bad then. People say stuff like that seriously so its hard to tell sometimes

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I can't even get a job with connections in the company lol

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C7D posted...

You could become a nurse. I don't think my wife has ever left a job where she didn't get a new one the next day.

Suggesting someone get into a line of work because it's easy to get a job is bad advice and you should stop. Being a nurse isn't easy. Some confused people without purpose might actually attempt that and find themselves in a worse position than when they started, hating their job a few years later. People should attempt to do what they want. If they don't know what they want then tbh I have no advice for that.

i got a good job and all by my own merit.

didnt have to rely on connections or kiss anyone's ass.

and the funny thing is that i didnt even reach out to them in the first place. >_>

^maybe you have a skill that not many people have?

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Lost_All_Senses posted...

"You're looking at me like Im stupid. But maybe I'm just stupid enough to make this thing work"

"You're asking me firmly to leave before you call the cops. But I'm telling you firmly and confidently that I'm the man for the job."

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Anticyclonic posted...

"You're asking me firmly to leave before you call the cops. But I'm telling you firmly and confidently that I'm the man for the job."

I'm starting to get in my feelings about how much I been being one upped lately >_>

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AzNDarkSamurai posted...

Thats not truly merit because that still involves getting the right people on your side to climb up

Even if you are talented, it doesnt matter at all if no one will vouch for you.

Right, I consider getting people on your side and willing to vouch for you an effort and merit.

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AzNDarkSamurai posted...

^maybe you have a skill that not many people have?

well ngl, the interview was kinda easy. it was pretty chill actually. lol

instead of scrutinizing my curriculum by asking questions related with my skills, it felt more like a casual conversation.

only gifted geniuses in medicine or software development dont seem to have this problem

Lysandear posted...

only gifted geniuses in medicine or software development dont seem to have this problem

Idk bro, I had a B/C average in college, was working in an unrelated field for years and I got a software job

not gonna say it was easy or anything, I sent out a lot of resumes and got few interviews, but you only have to get one job to get your foot in the door (and start making connections)

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If you can code competently then you are a relative genius as far as I'm concerned.

No you aren't right.

Getting a job is about standing out from the hundreds of other people that are applying for the same thing and you can do that on your merit but if you are just relying on your grades or resume you are doing it wrong. There is more to getting a job than that and you aren't even trying to do other things that can showcase your merit. You can make your own relationships and show off work that makes you valuable in your field. You can find people and e-mail them and call them and talk to them.

The first job I got out of law school was because I e-mailed the right person and sent them an article I had written about something they were working on. They created a position to hire me because they saw that I knew the subject matter and was ready to work on it -- I was more than just a resume. I have stayed with them for years and have a very good job now. If I hadn't written the article or contacted people to try to make connections my good resume would have been put in the pile with everyone else's.

When I was job hunting I was going to conferences and findings contacts who I tried to form relationships with. I would then followup and e-mail them anytime I had something to show off. You can't just beg for a job and give a resume, you have to show that you bring something of value.

I also suggest you put a lot of time and effort into cover letters. There are books you can buy that have sample letters in them. Buy the book for $10 and steal sentences you like that will make someone be interested in learning more about you or looking at your resume. As someone that now receives e-mails from people asking about jobs, I won't bother looking at a resume if the e-mail/cover letter isn't interesting or good. A good cover letter makes me want to look at the resume. That should be the goal.

There are tons of things that you can and should be doing on your own to help better your chances and that show your real merit. Just sending random resumes or applying online likely isn't enough if you are trying to get a great job.

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Being connected/social with colleagues takes effort, as does maintaining a reputation as a solid/knowledgeable/respectable worker.

More than 50% of the time, an interview is just for them to interact with you and make sure you're not neither asshole nor dullard nor incompetent.
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Tbh I had multiple interviewers say my cover letter was a big reason they brought me in for an interview

a lot of people are really bad at writing, or dont take the time to let someone else proof read

that alone can make you stand apart

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depends on the industry
ive been in culinary my whole life, and it definitely does help to have connections

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Topic title: No

Qualifier:

AzNDarkSamurai posted...

at least a decent job

Yes

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This is why I like running my own biz. Find something you like doing, get really good at it, be competitive with your prices to give people the most value for their $ and you'll have more business than you know what to do with.

I mean I don't do anything sophisticated to make big money but 3-4k a month after tax is a nice living here on the east coast living in the woods. I'm content.

I actually got a job as a CNA by myself. I got a loan and an education.

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No, its not rare. Does it help to know the right people? Sure. Is it a requirement? Absolutely not. Got my job w/o knowing a soul in the entire state.

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firebind2 posted...

I actually got a job as a CNA by myself. I got a loan and an education.

the medical field is one of the few industries that it is pretty easy to get a job in IIRC because they are always in need of people and lots of people dont have the qualifications they need to work at a hospital

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I don't think so. My last 2 jobs were obtained just from my own job searching and my current one I will be starting soon actually had the employer approach me on LinkedIn.

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AzNDarkSamurai posted...

the medical field is one of the few industries that it is pretty easy to get a job in IIRC because they are always in need of people and lots of people dont have the qualifications they need to work at a hospital

Isn't that a bit contradictory a statement?

It's and easy job to get into but it isn't since most people don't have the qualifications or certifications to get into it.

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firebind2 posted...

Isn't that a bit contradictory a statement?

It's and easy job to get into but it isn't since most people don't have the qualifications or certifications to get into it.

its not even close to contradictory because my topic speaks for a majority of jobs in general

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