Current Events > Why is it unpopular opinion to say not all cops are bad

(+) Yeah! (+)

seems like most good cops are afraid to speak out against the bullshit out of fear of being fired or being labeled as a "rat" by their colleagues of something...

LightningAce11 posted...

And nobody is dealing with the 2%.

It took millions of people a week of protesting to get a guy who murdered someone on tape to get arrested.

If the tape was never released the pig would still roam free. If people didn't protest he would be at home right now.

This. It literally took an international public outcry to get these cops and the other three on that scene charged and arrested. Just think of all the shit that happened before camera phones.

Bad cops are protected by the system. The good ones that do speak out are retaliated against.

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There are bad officers; there are racist officers. There a people wearing badges that are so physically unfit for duty that they may have a heart attack while Im typing this.

But you are not conditioned, in any way, to be hyper-aggressive or to disproportionately target black folks. It is in no curriculum, no manual, no unwritten code.

I do not doubt that some departments, more than others, have been infiltrated by racists or power-hungry shitbags who want to treat others as subhuman.

I know that needs to be fixed. However, it is not systemic corruption. You need to look at this issue on departmental levels; NYPD and LAPD operate differently than any other agency in the US. Dallas Fort-Worth, different operations.

Its too complex of an issue and too disconnected of a system to say, hey, these institutions are inherently racist.

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shockthemonkey posted...

Have we really reached the point where cops are absolutely terrible abusers with far too much power but I found a way to say they arent racist is the best defense cops have?

Apparently weve reached a point where people cant think critically, as evidenced by your post.

Your entire argument only stands on cops are terrible abusers, with nothing to back that up. Yes, there are cops who abuse their power. Yes, that needs remedied better; they should be fired and blacklisted from the profession.

No, its not the norm.

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Patchwork posted...

There are bad officers; there are racist officers. There a people wearing badges work physically unfit for duty that they may have a heart attack while Im typing this.

But you are not conditioned, in any way, to be hyper-aggressive or to disproportionately target black folks. It is in no curriculum, no manual, no unwritten code.

I do not doubt that some departments, more than others, have been infiltrated by racists or power-hungry shitbags who want to treat others as subhuman.

I know that needs to be fixed. However, it is not systemic corruption. You need to look at this issue on departmental levels; NYPD and LAPD operate differently than any other agency in the US. Dallas Fort-Worth, different operations.

Its too complex of an issue and too disconnected of a system to say, hey, these institutions are inherently racist.

These institutions are manned by people that are raised in this society, they are not immune to the effects of a society that has operated on a level of anti-blackness since time immemorial. They might not be specifically trained to be hyper-aggressive or disproportionately target black folks, but that doesn't say that aren't carrying their personal or unconscious bias with them.

Police departments have been infiltrated by racists since the beginning, we didn't need the FBI report to tell us that but it was nice to have it on paper though. Generation after generation of black people have said the same thing about policing. It is definitely an institutional problem.


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Not all police are directly responsible for the heinous acts committed in the guise of liberty and justice, but they are all responsible for allowing it to fester and grow to the extreme amount it has.

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While change is certainly needed, you don't have to worry TC. None of these mom's basement dwellers on GameFAQs will actually be making any decisions that impact the United States anytime soon. The people in power know that entirely defunding the police force in every jurisdiction would have consequences that no one is even thinking about or considering.

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We want the same thing here.

I want bad cops pulled from duty, charged with applicable crimes, and sentenced appropriately. I want a culture of accountability in every department across the nation, where cops look out for the citizens and look out for peoples civil liberties before looking out for a guy who fucked up.

We want the same shit, and Im working toward that every day I throw a uniform on, but god damn this fuckin rhetoric on here is just tired.

Go protest, write your congressman, state reps, etc. Research ideas on how to fix this.

Be apart of the solution, instead of just throwing shade.

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Patchwork posted...

There are bad officers; there are racist officers. There a people wearing badges that are so physically unfit for duty that they may have a heart attack while Im typing this.

But you are not conditioned, in any way, to be hyper-aggressive or to disproportionately target black folks. It is in no curriculum, no manual, no unwritten code.

I do not doubt that some departments, more than others, have been infiltrated by racists or power-hungry shitbags who want to treat others as subhuman.

I know that needs to be fixed. However, it is not systemic corruption. You need to look at this issue on departmental levels; NYPD and LAPD operate differently than any other agency in the US. Dallas Fort-Worth, different operations.

Its too complex of an issue and too disconnected of a system to say, hey, these institutions are inherently racist.

Aren't these protests directly calling out individual departments and city governments?

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hockeybub89 posted...

Aren't these protests directly calling out individual departments and city governments?

It doesnt seem thats the overarching theme, from what was being yelled at me incessantly. The overarching theme does appear to be systemic racism in the policing institution itself, rather than individual departments.

Though, Im sure certain cities are more pointedly direct at their own governments than others. NYC, for example, who seems intent on providing fuel to the fire every chance they get.

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Patchwork posted...

Though, Im sure certain cities are more pointedly direct at their own governments than others. NYC, for example, who seems intent on providing fuel to the fire every chance they get.

the cops are the ones adding fuel to the fire though. the NYPD trapped the protestors on a bridge

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Because it comes across as tone deaf.

Of course not literally every cop is bad. But the system in which they're apart of is.

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One thing I'd like to see is a chart similar to the coronavirus one where it shows a map of the US with circles to represent proportional cases of both reported incidents and those from surveys of people saying they were harassed. It wouldn't be surprising to see two or three extremely major circles representing the largest proportion of incidents. I'd bet money disregarding those areas would reduce everything across the board for all races.

Blightzkrieg posted...

A lot of cops are being hired from outside the areas they police

This is correct, and any suggestion they actually live in the communities they serve is met with fierce resistance and "BUT BUT BUT!"
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nemu posted...

One thing I'd like to see is a chart similar to the coronavirus one where it shows a map of the US with circles to represent proportional cases of both reported incidents and those from surveys of people saying they were harassed. It wouldn't be surprising to see two or three extremely major circles representing the largest proportion of incidents. I'd bet money disregarding those areas would reduce everything across the board for all races.

why should geographic areas with more instances of police brutality be disregarded though

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averagejoel posted...

why should geographic areas with more instances of police brutality be disregarded though

Those areas are their own ecosystems which need to be fixed. Basically, if the percentage of black people killed and harassed by police is primarily systemic across the country, the percentage should be roughly the same regardless of sample size. But if there are several major areas that alone account for that percentage, then it's more of a localized issue. It's the same thing with murder and gun deaths. If 20-50% of them are happening in one single area, it's a sign that a local area is broken rather than the entire US being broken. These numbers are just out of my ass obviously.

because most are, the minority are good uncorrupt police
most of them are just under educated thugs with a badge and a gun able to get away with the worst assaults, murders and human rights abuses due to the wall of blue effect .. a section of those thugs also have psycological issues which proper vetting pre-training could weed out. That says nothing about the endmic and systematic racism in the force

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nemu posted...

Those areas are their own ecosystems which need to be fixed. Basically, if the percentage of black people killed and harassed by police is primarily systemic across the country, the percentage should be roughly the same regardless of sample size. But if there are several major areas that alone account for that percentage, then it's more of a localized issue. It's the same thing with murder and gun deaths. If 20-50% of them are happening in one single area, it's a sign that a local area is broken rather than the entire US being broken. These numbers are just out of my ass obviously.

so basically what you're suggesting is that black communities being targeted disproportionately by police is their own problem

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averagejoel posted...

so basically what you're suggesting is that black communities being targeted disproportionately by police is their own problem

It's an ecosystem that cannot be solved by just one thing. Gangs, the prison cycle, bad schools, higher percentage of cops who don't give shit, higher percentage of racist cops, broken families, etc. I don't know what the solution would be, but even firing all the current cops and replacing them would just be a temporary stop gap until they all either quit or became corrupt themselves.

SSJCAT posted...

good cops cover for the bad ones. it is very easy to become a cop, and very hard to be fired.

@SSJCAT

Is it really? Go ahead and tell me what the application process is like and requirements.

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All cops are bad isn't implying that all cops are out there beating black people to death

They're all bad because they voluntarily enforce laws that are often unjust and disproportionately affect poor people and minorities i.e. the entire war on drugs
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Zikten posted...

I don't have numbers, but it's a known fact that black people get disproportionately assaulted by police. when a white guy murdered an entire church of black people, police took him through a fast food drive through on the way to prison. when black people are just walking down the street, cops kill them

also black people tend to get harsher punishments in criminal trials, for the same crimes than white criminals.

They didn't take him to fast food on the way to prison. They took him to fast food on the way to an interrogation after he had been arrested. That is a tactic used in getting the suspect talk about what happened and the fact theybare going to be in interrogation for a while and it will be a while before the suspect eats.

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I have a friend who is a great person and an outstanding police officer. I'll never say they're all bad just because of him.

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Zikten posted...

I don't have numbers, but it's a known fact

So you are making up lies then.

Taharqa_ posted...

This is an opinion piece, and this chick likely is racist under the guise of law and order. She's a conservative commentator that calls for the return of stop and frisk, zero tolerance policing. She's a vocal critic of Black Lives Matter.

She is using valid statistics which you can't counter.

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hyperpowder posted...

it's pretty easy:

1. Stop covering up police crimes

2. Stop training cops that we're some occupied enemy force

People who are saying defund the police are either dumb or wanting to commit crimes.

The idea behind defunding police is that police are a stopgap used to prop up systems that have been failing certain demographics and putting them on a path that inevitably leads to altercation. It's not that far fetched.

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ColdOne666 posted...

She is using valid statistics which you can't counter.

Generation after generation of black people must have 100 + year conspiracy theory going on about abusive policing then. Stats can be used to support almost any position if a person has a will for it.

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nemu posted...

It's an ecosystem that cannot be solved by just one thing. Gangs, the prison cycle, bad schools, higher percentage of cops who don't give shit, higher percentage of racist cops, broken families, etc. I don't know what the solution would be, but even firing all the current cops and replacing them would just be a temporary stop gap until they all either quit or became corrupt themselves.

defunding the police and allocating those funds into programs that actually help people and make the community safer

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Taharqa_ posted...

Generation after generation of black people must have 100 + year conspiracy theory going on about abusive policing then. Stats can be used to support almost any position if a person has a will for it.

So you have no counter to solid facts. Ok.

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ColdOne666 posted...

So you have no counter to solid facts. Ok.

Facts? More like manipulated facts to forward her agenda. I have no time for folks that want police to reinstate policies such as stop and frisk. It takes a lot of effort and cognitive dissonance to say that there is no racial disparity in policing.

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Say: "All Nazis weren't bad."

Still don't see the issue?

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Because "good cops" are the minority and when the "good ones" step up, they get framed for crimes they didn't commit or ostracized by their colleagues.

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People are stupid for saying acab

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shiby with it posted...

Because "good cops" are the minority and when the "good ones" step up, they get framed for crimes they didn't commit or ostracized by their colleagues.

A lot of people in this topic are simply stating things like this but as Patchwork has pointed out, there is no statistical evidence that "good cops" are the minority.

If you show me 8000 videos of different police officers abusing their power or committing "brutality," and I seriously doubt anyone could even find half of that, I will show you 1% of sworn law enforcement in the US. If you could somehow provide proof of 80,000 bad police officers, I will show 10% of sworn law enforcement. If you are saying good cops are in the minority, you are saying over 400,000 officers are bad.

I keep on hearing talk of police officers being murderers but they are significantly more likely to be killed by the general population than the general population is to be killed by them.

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abaddon41_80 posted...

A lot of people in this topic are simply stating things like this but as Patchwork has pointed out, there is no statistical evidence that "good cops" are the minority.

If you show me 8000 videos of different police officers abusing their power or committing "brutality," and I seriously doubt anyone could even find half of that, I will show you 1% of sworn law enforcement in the US. If you could somehow provide proof of 80,000 bad police officers, I will show 10% of sworn law enforcement. If you are saying good cops are in the minority, you are saying over 400,000 officers are bad.

I keep on hearing talk of police officers being murderers but they are significantly more likely to be killed by the general population than the general population is to be killed by them.

all cops, as part of the terms of their employment, agree to enforce all laws. this includes laws that are unjust or cruel.

cops are not bad because of the actions of a few of them; they're bad because they're cops.

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I think IA needs to be a body in the government that is not attached to the police but its own investigative department that gets different training from police so they can treat police with objectivity and not "well, I was on the job once".

I think covering up misconduct is absolutely something that is way too common in police forces. Internal affairs right now feels like "keeping it in-house", which is something the world definitely needs less of.

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averagejoel posted...

all cops, as part of the terms of their employment, agree to enforce all laws. this includes laws that are unjust or cruel.

cops are not bad because of the actions of a few of them; they're bad because they're cops.

Don't forget that statistic that says 40% of all officers are guilty of domestic abuse. And that's just the ones we're aware of. Most never actually get punished for it.

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I will say trying to have civilian oversight on police isn't exactly a solution because civilians pushing law enforcement around neuters the ability for laws to be enforced.

But any kind of misconduct immediately gets kicked outside of the police force to a different governmental body who answers to no one but the heads of state is necessary. There is no room for it to be handled "in-house" at any point. Once an LEO is suspected of misconduct, the police force can't protect them. Oversight needs to come from a separate-but-equal body who has full authority and access to the police department being investigated. They have power of arrest and can file criminal charges but NOT pass through the PD at any point (instead the charges go straight to the judicial system from them without needing to be signed off by the department).

Like I said, ideally this new version of IA would be made up of people who didn't start off in law enforcement but the truth of the matter is that is probably impossible since investigation and interrogation are techniques that are inherently tied to police work. The role I envision would be something of a mix between a detective and a prosecutor and the job would have attributes of each in the effort to properly bring charges where need be with no boys-in-blue interfering in the process.

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I think it's like saying "All Lives Matter", it's not wrong, but by saying it some people (wrongly or not) will infer you are trying to marginalize the existing movement.

It is annoying that people can be so difficult about such things, but I guess I get it for simplicity sake.

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joe40001 posted...

I think it's like saying "All Lives Matter", it's not wrong, but by saying it some people (wrongly or not) will infer you are trying to marginalize the existing movement.

Wow, I didn't think anyone would have the courage to say that in the current climate.

I don't think the phrase is wrong either because if used properly, it does target police misconduct across the board and puts the problem squarely on law enforcement, not just law enforcement's relationship with black citizens specifically.

Muslim and Hispanic suspects have both been subject to racial profiling themselves and it's not to be overlooked.

But, yeah, right now saying "All Lives Matter" is just a bad take, I won't disagree. I just hate that a potentially useful rallying call might be permanently seen as toxic.

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BlockAddition posted...

"ACAB!!"
"Oh hi 911, there's a man breaking into my house"
>what do you expect us to do about it?
"Send help!"
>ambulance or fire sir?
"Police"
>they don't exist sir
"But his gun is bigger than mine"
>this service is for ambulance or fire only sir, have a good day

Pretty much. The inner cities rampant with daily crime want to get rid of police but would be outraged when no one can save them from crime.
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Solid Sonic posted...

Wow, I didn't think anyone would have the courage to say that in the current climate.

I don't think the phrase is wrong either because if used properly, it does target police misconduct across the board and puts the problem squarely on law enforcement, not just law enforcement's relationship with black citizens specifically.

Muslim and Hispanic suspects have both been subject to racial profiling themselves and it's not to be overlooked.

But, yeah, right now saying "All Lives Matter" is just a bad take, I won't disagree. I just hate that a potentially useful rallying call might be permanently seen as toxic.

Yeah, I honestly like "All Lives Matter" as a sentiment in that I think a good way to deal with racism is to remember everybody is human and to stop treating anybody differently. I think we solve a lot of issues with racism by letting our racial differences become trivialities like hair color differences. That said I'd be naive if I didn't acknowledge some people have used "All Lives Matter" as a dog-whistle to say "Black People aren't really being mistreated by police", which seems to be pretty demonstrably false these days.

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Oh man I trusted patchwork when he said he was a good cop lol. Got fooled by an articulation I don't usually see in cops. He's as brainwashed by Blue as any of them

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All cops are bastardized when they participate in a corrupt system.

gunplagirl posted...

Don't forget that statistic that says 40% of all officers are guilty of domestic abuse. And that's just the ones we're aware of. Most never actually get punished for it.

even worse, it was self reported. if that many cops were willing to admit to beating their wives and kids, how many more didnt answer honestly? 40% "just statistics bro"

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k1ln1k posted...

Say: "All Nazis weren't bad."

Still don't see the issue?

Imagine comparing cops to Nazis, please get a grip.

averagejoel posted...

all cops, as part of the terms of their employment, agree to enforce all laws. this includes laws that are unjust or cruel.

cops are not bad because of the actions of a few of them; they're bad because they're cops.

Are you some Anarchist clown?

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Ive proven that 40 percent is such bs but you guys still post it non stop

Researchers tend to agree with the following: there is a problem, but there is an important need for more research. The 40% highlighted by the oft cited National Center for Women and Policing does refer to research, however see the first sentence I wrote. They cite a 1991 congressional testimony, and an academic article published in 1992. These are decades old snapshots. It is like taking crime rates from the early 90s to speak of crime today.
Another caveat to keep in mind is that these studies did not involve national samples. Most researchers studied a single department, often situated in urban settings. It is unclear how representative any of these findings are at a national scale.

Another study suggested that as many as 2040% of police officer families experience domestic violence, in contrast to 10% of the general population, (U.S. Department of Justice, 2000). However, in our large IPV survey, which was anonymous, we obtained a rate of physical abuse of approximately 7% (Gershon et al., 1999). And in a small sample (n=48) of female spouses of police officers also surveyed as part of that study, 8% reported being physically assaulted, (Gershon, 1999).

just like when you guys use the all cops have low iq and they want those guys!!! But its an article from 2000, from one department, hiring one guy. With the average iq of officers being just above Average actually

You guys want to use over 30 year old information based on ONE department


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ColdOne666 posted...

Imagine comparing cops to Nazis, please get a grip.

That's not the response I would have given. The party was fragmenting towards the end of WW2 because Hitler's leadership was called into question.

That movie "Valkyrie" that Tom Cruise starred in is one of the more noteworthy examples (because it was the closest to actually pulling off a full coup but the plan was upended by the change of venue for Hitler's conference that would have taken him out) but there are other instances of people trying to assassinate Hitler from within Nazi Germany.

Now whether or not those assassinations were carried out with the intent of overthrowing Hitler as a humanitarian or political move is subjective (since I think the sentiment that Germany was on the verge of losing the war under Hitler's direction was stronger than the desire to end the Holocaust).

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