Board 8 > The Last of Us 2 Spoiler Topic (SPOILERS IN THIS TOPIC)

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

imagine if she actually is trans and this is a AAA action game starring a lesbian and a transwoman

the discourse will be so bad

I kinda hope its true

Don't forget that the only reason the transwoman doesn't kill the lesbian's girlfriend is because she's pregnant.

I mean she got her head bashed in but has a baby. Probably.

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Kinglicious posted...

Don't forget that the only reason the transwoman doesn't kill the lesbian's girlfriend is because she's pregnant.

I mean she got her head bashed in but has a baby. Probably.

Actually she says "good" when learning she is pregnant and is about to do it but her sidekick gives her puppy dog eyes and she doesn't go through with it.

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That's the kind of character I'll love playing as.

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bad game gets bad sequel

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As a rule anybody who complains about the simple presence of any group is generally no good. However if this character is trans that's a really crappy way to portray your only trans character ever. It won't be the neckbeards who are complaining the most about that, and this time the complaints may be justified. However as more comes out it seems unlikely that the character is trans so it doesn't matter.

I'm a bit torn on this, after giving it some thought. On the one hand, it sounds bold and interesting, but it also sounds both like a massive bummer that will turn a lot of people off at the midway mark, and also something incredibly tricky and ambitious that I don't know if Naughty Dog has the chops to pull off. They need to basically make a character sympathetic and understandable out of whole cloth after something really horrible. I'm not sure they will. If they succeed however, it could be remarkable. It's a huge risk. But we are also only two weeks clear of a game that took a massive narrative risk, it sounded extremely stupid in the spoilers, people complained about it, then people actually played it and it really paid off.

I will say, to the people complaining about Joel's death in the middle... What kind of game were you expecting? This was always on the cards and is really the only logical end for that character in that world. Everything that happens after, on the other hand, I can see being offputting if not handled well. Not only might they fail to make that character understandable, but there is a real risk of just falling into misery porn and brutal violence for its own sake like that poorly judged Paris Games Week trailer. For me the thing that actually sounds lame is the cultist stuff, which sounds like possibly the most trite thing you can do in a story like this.

The thing that it really surprises me nobody talks about is the fact that Dinah actually doesn't die as was heavily telegraphed in the earlier trailers. So it was a red herring after all.

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I will say this, if Ellie lives, that redeems this game quite a bit. If Ellie AND Dina live, it redeems it completely.

Sets up game 3 to be about forgiveness, which could be amazing.

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there's an epilogue after the scene we saw, which is Santa Barbara. it's the second to least major cutscene and supposedly the two are alive there.


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LMAO

naughty dog really raising the bar on everyone trying to outwoke each other

LoU works well enough as a standalone story that I can just pretend this never happened. Still disappointing though.

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a trans villain

so woke

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Tom Bombadil posted...

a trans villain

so woke

dude she cant be the villain you play as her

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redrocket posted...

dude she cant be the villain you play as her

The fact that this is a statement makes everything so much more god damn conflicting.

Like, she murders Joel who we like and then we're expected to play her and feel bad for her.

I can't see any scenario where people are going to be able to move past her murdering Joel enough to enjoy playing as her, especially if they go on to talk about how sympathetic we should be towards her.

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Is this we all like Joel a safe assumption? Im not saying I necessarily agree with Leons take, but I cant help but wonder if, how can we be expected to play as the killer of Joel, whom we all like, is part of some board 8 groupthink.

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redrocket posted...

dude she cant be the villain you play as her

What about villain protagonists?

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Even if you don't like Joel, the character you're playing as is spending their half of the game hunting down Ellie. You basically have to not like either character from the first game.

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Yeah, I find having to hunt down and almost kill Ellie with my own hands the more objectionable aspect. You'd have to find a way not to make me hate Abby for that to work.

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redrocket posted...

dude she cant be the villain you play as her

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Lets be real here, Naughty Dog could never aspire to the heights of artistic nuance that is embodied by FFTA.

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that's true.
honestly one of these days i fully intend to go back to it. i mean i absolutely hated the game but that was with a mentality that i was playing the good guy and that i was playing an actual strategy game of some kind.

without either of those i'm sure i'll like the game more.
i still say that specific SMFFC was one of B8's best moments ever.

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redrocket posted...

Is this we all like Joel a safe assumption? Im not saying I necessarily agree with Leons take, but I cant help but wonder if, how can we be expected to play as the killer of Joel, whom we all like, is part of some board 8 groupthink.

Dude.

The entire first half of this game is going to be about us playing as Ellie feeling bad that she had a falling out with Joel and that she's becoming happy that they're starting to catch up and she wants to find him again because she cares so much about him. And then when they reunite Ellie is gutted that Joel is murdered in front of her and she's heartbroken.

And then we're going to play as the person who gave Ellie so much heartbreak and anguish. Use your head man.

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Is TLoU an Utsuge now?

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This game is assured to be a disaster that is given completely different types of reviews with explosive sales far beyond the first just because of the old train wreck analogy. Critics will likely once again call it prolific, fans will likely be utterly disgusted.

Druckmam really needs to be reigned in.

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redrocket posted...

dude she cant be the villain you play as her

I can think of a handful of counterexamples but they are all spoilers :\

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Tom Bombadil posted...

a trans villain

so woke

Not only that, but to steal a turn of phrase from elsewhere, the one trans woman being portrayed as a brutal murderer and beating a lesbian to within an inch of her life then trying to kill a pregnant woman is basically TERF fanfic. There is nothing remotely woke about that. There are just far right trolls trying to make everything about them who are best ignored.

Of course it seems that the character is not trans, and it was all just a big troll from /v/, or /v/ being unable to conceive of women with different body types.

Anyway, after sitting on it I think this could be great if done well. It's actually using player agency to tell a pretty interesting story and convey the themes of the game. What disheartens me is hearing from people who have watched it that the scenes seem undercooked and the animations and performances are not all there. That's just a couple of opinions of course, and I haven't watched myself. But that is part of what needs to land for something like this to work.

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i mean i literally posted the name woman this is based off of because i wanted to know if the mocap was a man and managed to confirm it's a woman. here's her instagram.

https://www.instagram.com/colleenfotsch/?hl=en

there's some serious drugs/steroids being used to get that physique. shoulders, chest, back, arms so it's not surprising to see trans being assumed. for what it's worth, haven't seen anything saying Colleen is trans. it's nice to see that in this apocalyptic future roids and buckets of whey protein managed to survive.

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It feels like they're trying to take the gravitas of the end of MGS3 without giving you the personal attachment into the character you're playing as AND the character you're fighting.

Well, I'm sure they'll try to do everything in their power to make her a sympathetic figure, but I'm not sure they'll be able to sell on making me okay with doing it.

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you want them to Sonic movie this game?


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Wanglicious posted...

you want them to Sonic movie this game?

I accidentally clicked this topic and just caught this post and am trying to avoid spoilers but...The Sonic movie was literally one of the greatest successes.

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yeah, Sonic movie broke $300 mil, which puts it as legitimately one of the best selling movies this year. hell it might well end up 2nd overall if nothing else manages to beat it but otherwise safe to say it's top 5.

but if you're trying to avoid spoilers... man, leave before it's too late.

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redrocket posted...

I thought it was modable to post spoilers based on a leak, even if you mark them. Thats changed?

Normally it is. But in this particular case it's okay as long as the spoiler warning in the topic title is very clear.
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Aren't Americans though all about gender and racial representation and anything out of the ordinary is beeing accepted with high praise? At least this is what I see in various cycles!

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Some of us are. Some of us are pickier about it. And some are wildly opposed to it.

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Heh well to tell you the truth I don't care about this because nobody in my country cares for these things so yeah I can't really understand how the culture is in USA exactly but I see a lot of people complain so I guess something has to be wrong.

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i ended up seeing the big spoiler by accident on a youtube comment of a ghost of tsushima trailer

..in this one case in my life, i'm glad i did. since i had already seen the biggest spoiler, i went and looked through the leaks..and this is the kind of thing that would legitimately have made me wanna return the game and deeply regret having ever given them money.

definitely not bothering with this anymore. i was always of the opinion that the first game had a perfect ending and could not be expanded upon without ruining either the setting, the characters, or both. this is just proving my point.

I feel a little bad for the creators, because I have to imagine the execution of the story is better than the text summary

I'm guessing you could make most heavy plot based games sound bad by selectively describing the plot or fast forwarding to the end

I think this game was already going to underperform, given the console exclusivity, and the ps5 being right around the corner. We will see what they take away from this

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The first game's ending was garbage and that's why I was on the fence about getting this in the first place. I don't really trust them to stick the landing.

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the ending was perfect. it was

Joel making the choice to screw over humanity to save Ellie. it ended by making Joel's story with his daughter and his growing relationship with Ellie come full circle, in a way that showed Joel's character flaws deeply and made the journey bittersweet for the players

it perfectly encapsulated the overall themes of the last of us. but there is nowhere left for the story or the characters to go. the character arcs and the overall story arc of the last of us as a fictional universe all fully concluded there.

Yes, I got the point of the ending. Everyone feels like they need to explain it to me whenever I say I thought it sucked!

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Sharinnegan posted...

there is nowhere left for the story or the characters to go. the character arcs and the overall story arc of the last of us as a fictional universe all fully concluded there.

If you're extremely unimaginative, sure.

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I don't really have a problem with any of the spoilers but if ND is really not paying their employees and crunching them to death, I won't get this

more footage came out.

Naughty dog has entered full meltdown mode and started striking everyone and taking down videos even just discussing the leaks without any footage. likely just gonna end up making the situation 1000 times worse.

https://www.ign.com/articles/the-last-of-us-part-2-leakers-not-affiliated-with-sony-naughty-dog

"SIE has identified the primary individuals responsible for the unauthorized release of TLOU2 assets. They are not affiliated with Naughty Dog or SIE. We are unable to comment further because the information is subject to an on-going investigation. Were looking forward to when The Last of Us Part II will be in your hands and cant wait for you to enjoy the full experience on June 19."

This leaker is going to get demolished by Naughty Dog and Sony.

I mean fuck Naughty Dog if all of the stuff about withholding payments to staff and crunch time is true but if the leaker was lying about that stuff then the damage is already done.

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I mean, the issue is either that Sony and Naughty Dog had ANOTHER security leak, or they're lying to avoid admitting Naughty Dog has troubles paying people and shitty work conditions. So I don't really know how much I believe what Sony says about the leaker not being affiliated.

I saw some clips from this game that look... man. Not great.

Before Joel dies, they show Abby crying over her dying father in a flashback. And then they have her smash Joel's head in with a bat and one guy spits on him after he's dead. All of this happening while Ellie is sobbing and begging Abby not to do it. So... it looks like they're going to try to make us empathize with Abby before she kills Joel, but I don't see how that works when you have Ellie screaming and begging that Abby not to kill him, when the whole story up until this point is Ellie herself forgiving Joel for killing the hospital people to save her and trying to reconnect with him.

And then we're supposed to play as Abby after this. I don't understand how I'm supposed to want to play this blood thirsty and vengeful maniac after this scene. Especially since she brutalizes a young pregnant girl unrelated and almost kills her? But I also saw footage of it being from Ellie's perspective too. So. We get to see Joel brutally murdered twice, which is questionable. But I think we don't even see Abby's side of things until we've played as her for a while. So we don't even get context to sympathize with her more before she does it.

But I also saw a stealth sequence where you'd being stealthy as Abby which makes no sense since she's 200% muscle and she's still dodging nimbly like Ellie would. Then she is brutally choking the hell out of Ellie, gets stabbed in the leg, and then just keeps sneaking around like normal. And apparently someone was going to leak the footage of Ellie dying but wasn't able to? But it seems like people are pretty sure Ellie dies at the end despite rumors, so I'm not sure.

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I thought that Ellie survives and the game ends with her going after Abby again?

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maybe the game has two endings
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Pirateking2000 posted...

I thought that Ellie survives and the game ends with her going after Abby again?

There's been conflicting reports. I haven't seen any footage of her dying, so I hazard to say she does or not.

But another thing I saw had Ellie biting Abby in the last fight (which btw it's super disturbing that this giant body builder of a person is choking the shit out of her and we're supposed to feel like we're the heroes) but this would mean Abby is immune and her father who was willing to kill Ellie for science refused to kill Abby for science? So... we're supposed to feel like Joel was more in the wrong here when Abby's dad refused to let his child die too?

Of course, that can just be shitty writing that Ellie bites Abby and she doesn't become infected, because that's just not surprising at this point.

Also, our first times playing as Abby show her waking up in her air conditioned giant base with an immaculate gym while the contrast is Ellie eating more shit and squirrel soup for the tenth day in a row in a makeshift village.

I can't get over these decisions.

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Alright, I've figured out Ellie dying or not.

Ellie does not die, but she is brutally beaten to near death. Like, her face just mangled, multiple bones broken. Just absolutely gruesome stuff. And she's left bleeding out externally and internally in the middle of nowhere. And we're supposed to feel like Abby does the noble thing by not finishing her off.

But somehow Ellie manages to survive and looks perfectly okay in the final scene and threatens revenge against Abby again. So it's more... there's no way she should survive, but she somehow manages to because of bad writing? And the twist is she's alive, because we're left to believe she's dead after just the absolute horrific shape she's in as we, the player, had to beat her up with a body builder-sized person to such lengths that are frankly beyond uncomfortable.

So Ellie lives, but only because of bad writing.

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