Poll of the Day > The White Settlement shooting shows why everyone needs to take combat training

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2
TerranceC 12/30/19 12:48:02 AM #52:	Dreaming_King posted... I know that. it was a response to this. I dont see how this applies though? If the guy was seriously going to shoot people he wouldve done so long before the guy held him at gunpoint. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932224520] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Dreaming_King posted... </cite> <quote>I know that. it was a response to this.</quote> I dont see how this applies though? If the guy was seriously going to shoot people he wouldve done so long before the guy held him at gunpoint. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 12:50:20 AM #53:	Like you countered the point with some ridiculous corner case, that isnt productive to the conversation. On average a real criminal is not going to make his intentions obvious and if he is he has already started shooting. That Kid was playing a prank or something not a real criminal. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932224598] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Like you countered the point with some ridiculous corner case, that isnt productive to the conversation. On average a real criminal is not going to make his intentions obvious and if he is he has already started shooting. That Kid was playing a prank or something not a real criminal. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 12/30/19 12:50:42 AM #54:	TerranceC posted... I dont see how this applies though? If the guy was seriously going to shoot people he wouldve done so long before the guy held him at gunpoint. Hes a dipshit for going to a freaking department store with a rifle and body armor just to scare people needlessly. Literally a terrorist. --- Lemonheads <cite>Mead posted [p:932224609] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>I dont see how this applies though? If the guy was seriously going to shoot people he wouldve done so long before the guy held him at gunpoint.</quote> Hes a dipshit for going to a freaking department store with a rifle and body armor just to scare people needlessly. Literally a terrorist. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_AdjI_ 12/30/19 12:53:52 AM #55:	Kyuubi4269 posted... Escaping a shooting is not equally as good as your rapist wrapping his dong lol Analogies don't require the concepts being compared to be equal. Lrn2analogy, nubcakes. Kyuubi4269 posted... It's like taking an anti-venom after a snake bite because it's far more practical than making venomous snakes extinct before you venture outside. You'd rather not get bitten, but if it only ends up hurting you superficially, you can happily live on accepting that outside risk. You would not, however, suggest that everyone should just carry anti-venom rather than avoiding areas that are known to have a high population of venomous snakes, using signage to warn people of such areas, or hunting said snakes to make an area safer that people need to be able to use. Anti-venom doesn't solve the problem, it just keeps the problem from killing you. Actual solutions prevent the bite in the first place. Similarly, combat rolling doesn't stop the guy from shooting up a church in the first place. I just makes it less likely that said guy will kill you. Front-line harm reduction is not comparable to actually solving the problem, even if it's not a bad idea if you know you'll be facing a high risk of encountering said problem. Kyuubi4269 posted... If people learned what is and is not a threat, perhaps they wouldn't overreact and we could avoid pointless conflict like this. Do you honestly think the guy wasn't deliberately trying to get a rise out of somebody? That he didn't think anyone would have a problem with a visibly armed guy in full body armor walking into a Walmart immediately after another guy went on a shooting spree in another Walmart? I'll give you a hint: He plead guilty. <cite>_AdjI_ posted [p:932224690] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>Escaping a shooting is not equally as good as your rapist wrapping his dong lol</quote> Analogies don't require the concepts being compared to be equal. Lrn2analogy, nubcakes. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>It's like taking an anti-venom after a snake bite because it's far more practical than making venomous snakes extinct before you venture outside. You'd rather not get bitten, but if it only ends up hurting you superficially, you can happily live on accepting that outside risk.</quote> You would not, however, suggest that everyone should just carry anti-venom rather than avoiding areas that are known to have a high population of venomous snakes, using signage to warn people of such areas, or hunting said snakes to make an area safer that people need to be able to use. Anti-venom doesn't solve the problem, it just keeps the problem from killing you. Actual solutions prevent the bite in the first place. Similarly, combat rolling doesn't stop the guy from shooting up a church in the first place. I just makes it less likely that said guy will kill you. Front-line harm reduction is not comparable to actually solving the problem, even if it's not a bad idea if you know you'll be facing a high risk of encountering said problem. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>If people learned what is and is not a threat, perhaps they wouldn't overreact and we could avoid pointless conflict like this.</quote> Do you honestly think the guy wasn't deliberately trying to get a rise out of somebody? That he didn't think anyone would have a problem with a visibly armed guy in full body armor walking into a Walmart immediately after another guy went on a shooting spree in another Walmart? I'll give you a hint: He plead guilty. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 12:54:50 AM #56:	Mead posted... Hes a dipshit for going to a freaking department store with a rifle and body armor just to scare people needlessly. Literally a terrorist. I get it its just not the point. In this case, which is literally outlined in the same law I posted, the usage of the gun was justified because the guy was visibly threatening. You cant pull a gun on someone though for wearing a hoodie with a handgun that isnt visible, you cant even really pull a gun on someone for being aggressive unless its life threatening. Thats what I am saying, in 90 percent of these cases with REAL shooters they will draw their weapons before anyone else can. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932224725] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote>Hes a dipshit for going to a freaking department store with a rifle and body armor just to scare people needlessly. Literally a terrorist.</quote> I get it its just not the point. In this case, which is literally outlined in the same law I posted, the usage of the gun was justified because the guy was visibly threatening. You cant pull a gun on someone though for wearing a hoodie with a handgun that isnt visible, you cant even really pull a gun on someone for being aggressive unless its life threatening. Thats what I am saying, in 90 percent of these cases with REAL shooters they will draw their weapons before anyone else can. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cacciato 12/30/19 12:59:18 AM #57:	TerranceC posted... most adult males in Switzerland are damn near military officer level with their weapons as high amount of military experience If youd ever been in the military youd know how much this absolutely does not help your argument. <cite>Cacciato posted [p:932224839] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>most adult males in Switzerland are damn near military officer level with their weapons as high amount of military experience</quote>If youd ever been in the military youd know how much this absolutely does not help your argument. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 12/30/19 1:30:01 AM #58:	_AdjI_ posted... Analogies don't require the concepts being compared to be equal. Lrn2analogy, nubcakes. They need to be equal relative to their situations. Your rapist using a condom is 1% better, not getting shot in a shooting is at least 80% better. Your analogy lacks any comparative elements. _AdjI_ posted... You would not, however, suggest that everyone should just carry anti-venom rather than avoiding areas that are known to have a high population of venomous snakes You tell them who to contact if they get bit, it's common sense and strongly recommended. _AdjI_ posted... Actual solutions prevent the bite in the first place. What's your solution to venomous snakes? They're wild animals, you could come across them anywhere in their general climate and region potentially, like mass shooters in the states. You can't just avoid large swathes of the country because you could maybe get bit and it's not practical to try to remove them all either as you don't know where they actually are at any time. Just like shooters in the US, you can only really deal with the problem as it appears as there is no practical solution in place as it stands. _AdjI_ posted... combat rolling doesn't stop the guy from shooting up a church in the first place. I just makes it less likely that said guy will kill you. Front-line harm reduction is not comparable to actually solving the problem, even if it's not a bad idea if you know you'll be facing a high risk of encountering said problem. You have no solution to shooters, and knowing what to do when a shooting occurs is going to be useful if it effects you, regardless of what protective measures are in place. You can practically get everybody informed in months and see real-world reduction in deaths, you can't just put up a "no shooters here" sign and expect to prevent them doing their acts. _AdjI_ posted... Do you honestly think the guy wasn't deliberately trying to get a rise out of somebody? I don't care what his intent was, but what you're suggesting is that it's not good to respond appropriately to threats because you want to go apeshit at trolls and take their bait. _AdjI_ posted... That he didn't think anyone would have a problem with a visibly armed guy in full body armor walking into a Walmart immediately after another guy went on a shooting spree in another Walmart? A troll being a troll doesn't need guns in faces. It's unnecessary, we have enough of that from psychos already. If people weren't reactionary, he wouldn't think he could get as "fun" a response from people. _AdjI_ posted... I'll give you a hint: He plead guilty. It really means nothing. You do in court what gets you the least punishment, his plea doesn't have any real significance and you shouldn't gauge anybody's moral compass based on their pleas in court. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:932225653] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>_AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Analogies don't require the concepts being compared to be equal. Lrn2analogy, nubcakes.</quote> They need to be equal relative to their situations. Your rapist using a condom is 1% better, not getting shot in a shooting is at least 80% better. Your analogy lacks any comparative elements. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>You would not, however, suggest that everyone should just carry anti-venom rather than avoiding areas that are known to have a high population of venomous snakes</quote> You tell them who to contact if they get bit, it's common sense and strongly recommended. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Actual solutions prevent the bite in the first place.</quote> What's your solution to venomous snakes? They're wild animals, you could come across them anywhere in their general climate and region potentially, like mass shooters in the states. You can't just avoid large swathes of the country because you could maybe get bit and it's not practical to try to remove them all either as you don't know where they actually are at any time. Just like shooters in the US, you can only really deal with the problem as it appears as there is no practical solution in place as it stands. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>combat rolling doesn't stop the guy from shooting up a church in the first place. I just makes it less likely that said guy will kill you. Front-line harm reduction is not comparable to actually solving the problem, even if it's not a bad idea if you know you'll be facing a high risk of encountering said problem.</quote> You have no solution to shooters, and knowing what to do when a shooting occurs is going to be useful if it effects you, regardless of what protective measures are in place. You can practically get everybody informed in months and see real-world reduction in deaths, you can't just put up a "no shooters here" sign and expect to prevent them doing their acts. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Do you honestly think the guy wasn't deliberately trying to get a rise out of somebody?</quote> I don't care what his intent was, but what you're suggesting is that it's not good to respond appropriately to threats because you want to go apeshit at trolls and take their bait. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>That he didn't think anyone would have a problem with a visibly armed guy in full body armor walking into a Walmart immediately after another guy went on a shooting spree in another Walmart?</quote> A troll being a troll doesn't need guns in faces. It's unnecessary, we have enough of that from psychos already. If people weren't reactionary, he wouldn't think he could get as "fun" a response from people. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>I'll give you a hint: He plead guilty.</quote> It really means nothing. You do in court what gets you the least punishment, his plea doesn't have any real significance and you shouldn't gauge anybody's moral compass based on their pleas in court.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_AdjI_ 12/30/19 2:09:11 AM #59:	Kyuubi4269 posted... They need to be equal relative to their situations. No they don't. Kyuubi4269 posted... Your rapist using a condom is 1% better, not getting shot in a shooting is at least 80% better. You're very obviously making up arbitrary numbers, undermining your point, and you're also ignoring the very real possibility of still getting shot, but non-lethally. Kyuubi4269 posted... You tell them who to contact if they get bit, it's common sense and strongly recommended. It is good to have that information, yes, but that does nothing to reduce the likelihood of bites in the first place. Stopping at that instead of taking further preventative measures would be foolish, so long as further preventative measures exist. Kyuubi4269 posted... Just like shooters in the US, you can only really deal with the problem as it appears as there is no practical solution in place as it stands. Or - bear with me here, because this is apparently really complicated - you can introduce legislation that would cut down on the number of shooters in the first place. The root of the problem is that there are too many mentally unstable people with guns. There are many options for reducing the number of mentally unstable people, reducing the number of people with guns, and particularly reducing the overlap between those two groups. Mind-blowing, I know. Training people to reduce the harm a shooter can do when they crop up isn't bad, but it's also not doing anything to solve the actual problem. Kyuubi4269 posted... A troll being a troll doesn't need guns in faces. Deliberately making people feel like their lives are being threatened goes far beyond trolling. Kyuubi4269 posted... It really means nothing. You do in court what gets you the least punishment, his plea doesn't have any real significance and you shouldn't gauge anybody's moral compass based on their pleas in court. It means he didn't have a case upon which to defend his actions as harmless and not intended to terrorize people. Given how easy it would have been to claim that he himself was concerned about the possibility of another Walmart shooter and that he was only trying to protect himself, I'm fine with treating the fact that he didn't make that defense as an admission that he was trying to cause trouble. I'm even more fine with that conclusion when I take into account that his justification was that he was "testing Walmart's attitude toward the second amendment" and the charge to which he plead guilty was causing a false police report to be made. That's pretty clear-cut. <cite>_AdjI_ posted [p:932226638] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>They need to be equal relative to their situations.</quote> No they don't. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>Your rapist using a condom is 1% better, not getting shot in a shooting is at least 80% better.</quote> You're very obviously making up arbitrary numbers, undermining your point, and you're also ignoring the very real possibility of still getting shot, but non-lethally. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>You tell them who to contact if they get bit, it's common sense and strongly recommended.</quote> It is good to have that information, yes, but that does nothing to reduce the likelihood of bites in the first place. Stopping at that instead of taking further preventative measures would be foolish, so long as further preventative measures exist. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>Just like shooters in the US, you can only really deal with the problem as it appears as there is no practical solution in place as it stands.</quote> Or - bear with me here, because this is apparently really complicated - you can introduce legislation that would cut down on the number of shooters in the first place. The root of the problem is that there are too many mentally unstable people with guns. There are many options for reducing the number of mentally unstable people, reducing the number of people with guns, and particularly reducing the overlap between those two groups. Mind-blowing, I know. Training people to reduce the harm a shooter can do when they crop up isn't bad, but it's also not doing anything to solve the actual problem. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>A troll being a troll doesn't need guns in faces.</quote> Deliberately making people feel like their lives are being threatened goes far beyond trolling. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>It really means nothing. You do in court what gets you the least punishment, his plea doesn't have any real significance and you shouldn't gauge anybody's moral compass based on their pleas in court.</quote> It means he didn't have a case upon which to defend his actions as harmless and not intended to terrorize people. Given how easy it would have been to claim that he himself was concerned about the possibility of another Walmart shooter and that he was only trying to protect himself, I'm fine with treating the fact that he didn't make that defense as an admission that he was trying to cause trouble. I'm even more fine with that conclusion when I take into account that his justification was that he was "testing Walmart's attitude toward the second amendment" and the charge to which he plead guilty was causing a false police report to be made. That's pretty clear-cut. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 12/30/19 2:24:50 AM #60:	_AdjI_ posted... No they don't. ok _AdjI_ posted... You're very obviously making up arbitrary numbers, undermining your point if you say so _AdjI_ posted... It is good to have that information, yes, but that does nothing to reduce the likelihood of bites in the first place. Stopping at that instead of taking further preventative measures would be foolish, so long as further preventative measures exist. People aren't worried about bites if they can be treated on the rare chance it happens. Further preventative measures do not exist, same as with shooters, so we make do with what exists instead of hunkering down and waiting for an imaginary cure-all. _AdjI_ posted... Or - bear with me here, because this is apparently really complicated - you can introduce legislation that would cut down on the number of shooters in the first place. Like? It's not like that's had much effect so far. This also isn't an and/or situation. We can do both, it would just be silly to stay defenseless and fearful while waiting for preventative measures to kick in when you can take proactive steps to minimise harm now. _AdjI_ posted... The root of the problem is that there are too many mentally unstable people with guns. There are many options for reducing the number of mentally unstable people, reducing the number of people with guns, and particularly reducing the overlap between those two groups. Mind-blowing, I know. And yet we have zero countries with no guns and no mental illness. It's not something that is remotely pragmatic to try to just eliminate outright. There will always be some guns and some mental illness and inevitably sometimes those things will cross. As long as these situations can happen, learning to protect yourself in these situations will reduce injuries and/or deaths. _AdjI_ posted... Deliberately making people feel like their lives are being threatened goes far beyond trolling. It's still trolling, just really bad trolling. Just like 28 stab wounds is assault, and it's also a fatal attack. _AdjI_ posted... It means he didn't have a case upon which to defend his actions as harmless and not intended to terrorize people. It means he had no defense valid in court, not that he didn't have a defense he personally felt was valid. He's a fucking moron and I don't really care who he is or what happened. It's still not important to how we should deal with shootings beyond being an example of how on edge it's getting the public. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:932227029] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>_AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>No they don't.</quote> ok _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>You're very obviously making up arbitrary numbers, undermining your point</quote> if you say so _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>It is good to have that information, yes, but that does nothing to reduce the likelihood of bites in the first place. Stopping at that instead of taking further preventative measures would be foolish, so long as further preventative measures exist.</quote> People aren't worried about bites if they can be treated on the rare chance it happens. Further preventative measures do not exist, same as with shooters, so we make do with what exists instead of hunkering down and waiting for an imaginary cure-all. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Or - bear with me here, because this is apparently really complicated - you can introduce legislation that would cut down on the number of shooters in the first place. </quote> Like? It's not like that's had much effect so far. This also isn't an and/or situation. We can do both, it would just be silly to stay defenseless and fearful while waiting for preventative measures to kick in when you can take proactive steps to minimise harm now. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>The root of the problem is that there are too many mentally unstable people with guns. There are many options for reducing the number of mentally unstable people, reducing the number of people with guns, and particularly reducing the overlap between those two groups. Mind-blowing, I know.</quote> And yet we have zero countries with no guns and no mental illness. It's not something that is remotely pragmatic to try to just eliminate outright. There will always be some guns and some mental illness and inevitably sometimes those things will cross. As long as these situations can happen, learning to protect yourself in these situations will reduce injuries and/or deaths. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Deliberately making people feel like their lives are being threatened goes far beyond trolling.</quote> It's still trolling, just really bad trolling. Just like 28 stab wounds is assault, and it's also a fatal attack. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>It means he didn't have a case upon which to defend his actions as harmless and not intended to terrorize people.</quote> It means he had no defense valid in court, not that he didn't have a defense he personally felt was valid. He's a fucking moron and I don't really care who he is or what happened. It's still not important to how we should deal with shootings beyond being an example of how on edge it's getting the public.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_AdjI_ 12/30/19 2:42:35 AM #61:	Kyuubi4269 posted... if you say so If you disagree, you're welcome to provide a citation for those numbers. Kyuubi4269 posted... People aren't worried about bites if they can be treated on the rare chance it happens. So you wouldn't want snake-infested areas to be signed well enough for you to avoid them as needed? You'd happily wade into such an area without any sort of training on how to recognize and avoid antagonizing venomous snakes? You wouldn't wear thicker boots and pants to help prevent bites from breaking the skin? Being able to fix the problem after it happens makes it unnecessary to go to extraordinary lengths to minimize risks, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to take reasonable measures to minimize the risk instead of relying on that treatment. Kyuubi4269 posted... And yet we have zero countries with no guns and no mental illness. It's not something that is remotely pragmatic to try to just eliminate outright. And yet we do have countries with virtually zero mass shootings. It's almost like it's not actually necessary to hit zero. Who knew? Kyuubi4269 posted... It's still trolling, just really bad trolling. Just like 28 stab wounds is assault, and it's also a fatal attack. You'd call that murder, without taking the time to point out that it's also technically assault in an effort to downplay the situation. If you're trying to dismiss what this guy did as "just harmless trolling" and not "behaving in a threatening manner," you might want to choose an analogy that doesn't completely dismantle your attempted point. Kyuubi4269 posted... It means he had no defense valid in court, not that he didn't have a defense he personally felt was valid. I take it you didn't read past the first sentence there? <cite>_AdjI_ posted [p:932227435] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>if you say so</quote> If you disagree, you're welcome to provide a citation for those numbers. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>People aren't worried about bites if they can be treated on the rare chance it happens.</quote> So you wouldn't want snake-infested areas to be signed well enough for you to avoid them as needed? You'd happily wade into such an area without any sort of training on how to recognize and avoid antagonizing venomous snakes? You wouldn't wear thicker boots and pants to help prevent bites from breaking the skin? Being able to fix the problem after it happens makes it unnecessary to go to extraordinary lengths to minimize risks, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to take reasonable measures to minimize the risk instead of relying on that treatment. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>And yet we have zero countries with no guns and no mental illness. It's not something that is remotely pragmatic to try to just eliminate outright.</quote> And yet we do have countries with virtually zero mass shootings. It's almost like it's not actually necessary to hit zero. Who knew? Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>It's still trolling, just really bad trolling. Just like 28 stab wounds is assault, and it's also a fatal attack.</quote> You'd call that murder, without taking the time to point out that it's also technically assault in an effort to downplay the situation. If you're trying to dismiss what this guy did as "just harmless trolling" and not "behaving in a threatening manner," you might want to choose an analogy that doesn't completely dismantle your attempted point. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>It means he had no defense valid in court, not that he didn't have a defense he personally felt was valid.</quote> I take it you didn't read past the first sentence there? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 2:46:50 AM #62:	Kyuubi is the only person in this topic making sense. Its amazing to me, we have a live video of the entirety of a public shooting event(which is very rare by the way) and we finally get to see what happens. Now Ive been very careful about my wording because I dont wish to victim blame the deceased, but lets just speak the truth One the first person who was shot not only failed to drop to his knees to cover, he stood up, while drawing from his pocket and actually diverted the gunmans attention to him which ended with him getting shot and killed before he presumably drew his weapon. Two, after that person was shot, the person who was originally pointed at froze in fear and only narrowly managed to move right before being shot which probably saved his life as of now. Three, after two shots over the course of about 3-4 seconds, the congregation has mostly failed to react, one or two people have started to run and the rest are cowering in their seats, few have even managed to duck for cover. Please explain to me how our country has a shooting nearly every week and yet no one is interested in learning what to do in the case of a shooting and what not to do. I feel so many people in this topic just take a defeatist approach like If he has a gun theres nothing you can do we need to ban guns! You need to learn how to save your own life the shootings are getting worse every year. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932227534] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi is the only person in this topic making sense. Its amazing to me, we have a live video of the entirety of a public shooting event(which is very rare by the way) and we finally get to see what happens. Now Ive been very careful about my wording because I dont wish to victim blame the deceased, but lets just speak the truth One the first person who was shot not only failed to drop to his knees to cover, he stood up, while drawing from his pocket and actually diverted the gunmans attention to him which ended with him getting shot and killed before he presumably drew his weapon. Two, after that person was shot, the person who was originally pointed at froze in fear and only narrowly managed to move right before being shot which probably saved his life as of now. Three, after two shots over the course of about 3-4 seconds, the congregation has mostly failed to react, one or two people have started to run and the rest are cowering in their seats, few have even managed to duck for cover. Please explain to me how our country has a shooting nearly every week and yet no one is interested in learning what to do in the case of a shooting and what not to do. I feel so many people in this topic just take a defeatist approach like If he has a gun theres nothing you can do we need to ban guns! You need to learn how to save your own life the shootings are getting worse every year. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 12/30/19 2:48:21 AM #63:	TerranceC posted... Kyuubi is the only person in this topic making sense. lmfao --- Lemonheads <cite>Mead posted [p:932227579] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>Kyuubi is the only person in this topic making sense.</quote> lmfao </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 2:50:57 AM #64:	Ive provided in this topic even multiple videos of trained people surviving gun encounters by minimizing the damage they took to the best of their ability. The absolutely worst thing to do which unfortunately we know many people do when being shot is stand still, because you can survive being shot in a lot of areas the shooter wasnt shooting at. If he aims at your head or chest and shoots you, you are probably dead. If he aims at your large moving, swaying body and hits you in the shoulder or side, or leg, or back you have a larger chance of living. You can still bleed out but youve got a shot at being saved, vs the first guy who seemed to die pretty much instantly(RIP) <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932227656] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Ive provided in this topic even multiple videos of trained people surviving gun encounters by minimizing the damage they took to the best of their ability. The absolutely worst thing to do which unfortunately we know many people do when being shot is stand still, because you can survive being shot in a lot of areas the shooter wasnt shooting at. If he aims at your head or chest and shoots you, you are probably dead. If he aims at your large moving, swaying body and hits you in the shoulder or side, or leg, or back you have a larger chance of living. You can still bleed out but youve got a shot at being saved, vs the first guy who seemed to die pretty much instantly(RIP) </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 2:52:25 AM #65:	Mead posted... lmfao Ok Mead what are you gonna do when you encounter an active shooter situation? Pray to Jesus? Or write an angry letter to Congress about how gun reform couldve saved you? <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932227693] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote>lmfao</quote> Ok Mead what are you gonna do when you encounter an active shooter situation? Pray to Jesus? Or write an angry letter to Congress about how gun reform couldve saved you? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Cacciato 12/30/19 2:53:46 AM #66:	Mead posted... lmfao For fucks sake that was the first new post I noticed. I really wish I knew whose alt this guy was. <cite>Cacciato posted [p:932227729] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote>lmfao</quote>For fucks sake that was the first new post I noticed. I really wish I knew whose alt this guy was. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Mead 12/30/19 3:24:30 AM #67:	TerranceC posted... Ok Mead what are you gonna do when you encounter an active shooter situation? Id probably get shot like a total dingus and wish Id taken combat roll training more seriously --- Lemonheads <cite>Mead posted [p:932228309] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>Ok Mead what are you gonna do when you encounter an active shooter situation?</quote> Id probably get shot like a total dingus and wish Id taken combat roll training more seriously </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 12/30/19 3:37:33 AM #68:	_AdjI_ posted... So you wouldn't want snake-infested areas to be signed well enough for you to avoid them as needed? You'd happily wade into such an area without any sort of training I've been arguing for training this whole time, now you think you can flip it? lol I'm happy to do what I always do as I know what I need to do in an emergency. If I can deal with a rare incident when it happens and walk away from it, I'd rather not be encumbered with unnecessary heavy boots and thick clothes in the summer. _AdjI_ posted... Being able to fix the problem after it happens makes it unnecessary to go to extraordinary lengths to minimize risks, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to take reasonable measures to minimize the risk instead of relying on that treatment. Define "reasonable measures". To somebody who hates guns on principle alone and hates mentally ill people a gun ban and mandatory asylum for all potentially mentally ill people may seem reasonable, however people who use guns for a living or have a mental illness without being a danger, being heavily restricted is completely unreasonable. I know of no restriction you can put in place that isn't wildly unreasonable to some entirely innocent group. _AdjI_ posted... And yet we do have countries with virtually zero mass shootings. It's almost like it's not actually necessary to hit zero. Who knew? It's as though they're not the only, or even most important, factors involved in US mass shootings. The UK has free healthcare and heavily restricted gun control yet we had a school shooting once. Switzerland has guns everywhere and there's none I know of. What I see is no direct correlation between legal gun ownership, mental health services and mass shootings but some people still assume there's a neat cure-all sitting neatly between them. _AdjI_ posted... If you're trying to dismiss what this guy did as "just harmless trolling" and not "behaving in a threatening manner," you might want to choose an analogy that doesn't completely dismantle your attempted point. You devolving in to black and white thinking is a neat example of how people need to learn subtleties so they don't overreact. What he did was trolling. That doesn't make what he did harmless, but it also doesn't make it a terroristic threat. It sits in a window of greyness you're not willing to take on board. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:932228547] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>_AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>So you wouldn't want snake-infested areas to be signed well enough for you to avoid them as needed? You'd happily wade into such an area without any sort of training </quote> I've been arguing for training this whole time, now you think you can flip it? lol I'm happy to do what I always do as I know what I need to do in an emergency. If I can deal with a rare incident when it happens and walk away from it, I'd rather not be encumbered with unnecessary heavy boots and thick clothes in the summer. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Being able to fix the problem after it happens makes it unnecessary to go to extraordinary lengths to minimize risks, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to take reasonable measures to minimize the risk instead of relying on that treatment.</quote> Define "reasonable measures". To somebody who hates guns on principle alone and hates mentally ill people a gun ban and mandatory asylum for all potentially mentally ill people may seem reasonable, however people who use guns for a living or have a mental illness without being a danger, being heavily restricted is completely unreasonable. I know of no restriction you can put in place that isn't wildly unreasonable to some entirely innocent group. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>And yet we do have countries with virtually zero mass shootings. It's almost like it's not actually necessary to hit zero. Who knew?</quote> It's as though they're not the only, or even most important, factors involved in US mass shootings. The UK has free healthcare and heavily restricted gun control yet we had a school shooting once. Switzerland has guns everywhere and there's none I know of. What I see is no direct correlation between legal gun ownership, mental health services and mass shootings but some people still assume there's a neat cure-all sitting neatly between them. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>If you're trying to dismiss what this guy did as "just harmless trolling" and not "behaving in a threatening manner," you might want to choose an analogy that doesn't completely dismantle your attempted point.</quote> You devolving in to black and white thinking is a neat example of how people need to learn subtleties so they don't overreact. What he did was trolling. That doesn't make what he did harmless, but it also doesn't make it a terroristic threat. It sits in a window of greyness you're not willing to take on board.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 3:53:30 AM #69:	Mead posted... Id probably get shot like a total dingus and wish Id taken combat roll training more seriously I dont get why you think these basic combat training tactics are so farfetched and laughable. I could link another time its used by police or someone to save their life or another persons life and youd still shrug it off but you probably are just trolling. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932228812] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Mead posted... </cite> <quote>Id probably get shot like a total dingus and wish Id taken combat roll training more seriously</quote> I dont get why you think these basic combat training tactics are so farfetched and laughable. I could link another time its used by police or someone to save their life or another persons life and youd still shrug it off but you probably are just trolling. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:02:22 AM #70:	https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-IeRiKDjIDI&feature=related Ah, officer shot in forearm, rolls out of the way of further shots, doesnt get hit again. Lives to tell the tale. No dear in headlights, no cowering, trained decisive action. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932228941] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-IeRiKDjIDI&feature=related Ah, officer shot in forearm, rolls out of the way of further shots, doesnt get hit again. Lives to tell the tale. No dear in headlights, no cowering, trained decisive action. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 12/30/19 4:04:48 AM #71:	TerranceC posted... Please explain to me how our country has a shooting nearly every week and yet no one is interested in learning what to do in the case of a shooting and what not to do. I feel so many people in this topic just take a defeatist approach like If he has a gun theres nothing you can do we need to ban guns! You need to learn how to save your own life the shootings are getting worse every year. Most people are TOO pacifistic and not willing to learn to fight. I think all people, once old enough to understand the seriousness of life/death/murder should get martial arts and combat training regardless of age/gender/sexual orientation/etc. We all need to learn how to fight, and to learn to operate under combat situations. Military school for children at a young age and training them to fight might save lives. Same with learning how to patch up bullet wounds in emergency situations and know how to use a IFAK. Military training for all young students and constant fighting / combat training in all forms of combat could be useful. Be it CQC with martial arts / bladed weapons / improvised weapons or CQB with FireArms. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:932228972] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>Please explain to me how our country has a shooting nearly every week and yet no one is interested in learning what to do in the case of a shooting and what not to do. I feel so many people in this topic just take a defeatist approach like If he has a gun theres nothing you can do we need to ban guns! You need to learn how to save your own life the shootings are getting worse every year.</quote>Most people are TOO pacifistic and not willing to learn to fight. I think all people, once old enough to understand the seriousness of life/death/murder should get martial arts and combat training regardless of age/gender/sexual orientation/etc. We all need to learn how to fight, and to learn to operate under combat situations. Military school for children at a young age and training them to fight might save lives. Same with learning how to patch up bullet wounds in emergency situations and know how to use a IFAK. Military training for all young students and constant fighting / combat training in all forms of combat could be useful. Be it CQC with martial arts / bladed weapons / improvised weapons or CQB with FireArms. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:05:28 AM #72:	The officers are trained to roll out of combat when hit because of reasons Ive already gone over numerous times, keeps you low, moving and harder to hit. But you just want to take the piss like Im suggesting everyone act like they are Jackie Chan. Totally unproductive discourse. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932228984] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>The officers are trained to roll out of combat when hit because of reasons Ive already gone over numerous times, keeps you low, moving and harder to hit. But you just want to take the piss like Im suggesting everyone act like they are Jackie Chan. Totally unproductive discourse. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:07:32 AM #73:	Moreover you dont need to roll specifically, you can also crawl or whatever, the main point is get low and keep moving. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932229019] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Moreover you dont need to roll specifically, you can also crawl or whatever, the main point is get low and keep moving. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Keebs05 12/30/19 4:07:46 AM #74:	TerranceC posted... One the first person who was shot not only failed to drop to his knees to cover, he stood up, while drawing from his pocket and actually diverted the gunmans attention to him which ended with him getting shot and killed before he presumably drew his weapon. I'll give you this. The guy almost casually went for his gun. That was a bit of a headscratcher. Two, after that person was shot, the person who was originally pointed at froze in fear and only narrowly managed to move right before being shot which probably saved his life as of now. Where was he supposed to go? He was literally cornered. Three, after two shots over the course of about 3-4 seconds, the congregation has mostly failed to react, one or two people have started to run and the rest are cowering in their seats, few have even managed to duck for cover. You have a church full of, what appears to me, majority elderly people. Reflexes slow as you age. It's human nature to look first when you hear something loud and abrupt. Not everybody is an extensively-trained operator. Please explain to me how our country has a shooting nearly every week and yet no one is interested in learning what to do in the case of a shooting and what not to do. That's a straight up lie. Enrollment in self defense has increased sharply, firearms training has increased (although not nearly high enough) and many places conduct active shooter drills. --- "Old soldiers never die, they just fade away" R.I.P PFC Dusty Seidel <cite>Keebs05 posted [p:932229024] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>One the first person who was shot not only failed to drop to his knees to cover, he stood up, while drawing from his pocket and actually diverted the gunmans attention to him which ended with him getting shot and killed before he presumably drew his weapon. </quote>I'll give you this. The guy almost casually went for his gun. That was a bit of a headscratcher. <quote>Two, after that person was shot, the person who was originally pointed at froze in fear and only narrowly managed to move right before being shot which probably saved his life as of now.</quote>Where was he supposed to go? He was literally cornered. <quote>Three, after two shots over the course of about 3-4 seconds, the congregation has mostly failed to react, one or two people have started to run and the rest are cowering in their seats, few have even managed to duck for cover.</quote>You have a church full of, what appears to me, majority elderly people. Reflexes slow as you age. It's human nature to look first when you hear something loud and abrupt. Not everybody is an extensively-trained operator. <quote>Please explain to me how our country has a shooting nearly every week and yet no one is interested in learning what to do in the case of a shooting and what not to do.</quote>That's a straight up lie. Enrollment in self defense has increased sharply, firearms training has increased (although not nearly high enough) and many places conduct active shooter drills. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 12/30/19 4:09:07 AM #75:	TerranceC posted... I feel so many people in this topic just take a defeatist approach like If he has a gun theres nothing you can do we need to ban guns! Most people would rather live under the false sense of security that police or somebody will come save them instead of the harsh reality that they have to save themselves first before police or backup can get there. 911/Police are literally tens of minutes away usually when you need solutions done in < 1 min. That means fighting back. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:932229049] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>I feel so many people in this topic just take a defeatist approach like If he has a gun theres nothing you can do we need to ban guns!</quote>Most people would rather live under the false sense of security that police or somebody will come save them instead of the harsh reality that they have to save themselves first before police or backup can get there. 911/Police are literally tens of minutes away usually when you need solutions done in < 1 min. That means fighting back. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:12:34 AM #76:	KamenRiderBlade posted... Most people are TOO pacifistic and not willing to learn to fight. I think all people, once old enough to understand the seriousness of life/death/murder should get martial arts and combat training regardless of age/gender/sexual orientation/etc. We all need to learn how to fight, and to learn to operate under combat situations. Military school for children at a young age and training them to fight might save lives. Same with learning how to patch up bullet wounds in emergency situations and know how to use a IFAK. Military training for all young students and constant fighting / combat training in all forms of combat could be useful. Be it CQC with martial arts / bladed weapons / improvised weapons or CQB with FireArms. Exactly, this country has the worst random gun violence in the world and yet are some of the least educated and least prepared for these situations. More awareness/training on how to avoid getting shot, more training on what to do if you get shot and arent dead or incapacitated or if someone around you is shot and needs medical care. I feel even worse than the people freezing up is the fact that after this guy got shot he got up and no one knew what to do, no one knew how to give him medical attention and just waited for the doctor to come. Granted Id be guilty of this too but thats why its on my to do list in the near future, might save someone life that is close to me one day. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932229108] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>KamenRiderBlade posted... </cite> <quote>Most people are TOO pacifistic and not willing to learn to fight. I think all people, once old enough to understand the seriousness of life/death/murder should get martial arts and combat training regardless of age/gender/sexual orientation/etc. We all need to learn how to fight, and to learn to operate under combat situations. Military school for children at a young age and training them to fight might save lives. Same with learning how to patch up bullet wounds in emergency situations and know how to use a IFAK. Military training for all young students and constant fighting / combat training in all forms of combat could be useful. Be it CQC with martial arts / bladed weapons / improvised weapons or CQB with FireArms.</quote> Exactly, this country has the worst random gun violence in the world and yet are some of the least educated and least prepared for these situations. More awareness/training on how to avoid getting shot, more training on what to do if you get shot and arent dead or incapacitated or if someone around you is shot and needs medical care. I feel even worse than the people freezing up is the fact that after this guy got shot he got up and no one knew what to do, no one knew how to give him medical attention and just waited for the doctor to come. Granted Id be guilty of this too but thats why its on my to do list in the near future, might save someone life that is close to me one day. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 12/30/19 4:13:19 AM #77:	Keebs05 posted... That's a straight up lie. Enrollment in self defense has increased sharply, firearms training has increased (although not nearly high enough) and many places conduct active shooter drills. And yet countless politicians continue to advance for the disarmament of the people so they can subjugate us willy nilly, not giving a damn what happens to us, while they are protected by expensive private security. They don't want us to be able to protect ourselves. The best tool to protect ourselves is literally right there, stated in the constitution. Yet they want to strip it from us for fear of us people getting in the way of their not so subtle desire to subjugate the populace under their "Kindly Veiled, but back handed methods of Tyrannical law making". No thanks, I'd rather every single politician live under the fear of the metaphorical "Sword of Damocles" every waking second so that they can't do corrupt shit. And that means it requires us, the armed citizenry, to constantly keep tabs on the politicians and cut the string on the "Sword of Damocles" and impale any politician that has gone rogue. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:932229123] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Keebs05 posted... </cite> <quote>That's a straight up lie. Enrollment in self defense has increased sharply, firearms training has increased (although not nearly high enough) and many places conduct active shooter drills.</quote>And yet countless politicians continue to advance for the disarmament of the people so they can subjugate us willy nilly, not giving a damn what happens to us, while they are protected by expensive private security. They don't want us to be able to protect ourselves. The best tool to protect ourselves is literally right there, stated in the constitution. Yet they want to strip it from us for fear of us people getting in the way of their not so subtle desire to subjugate the populace under their "Kindly Veiled, but back handed methods of Tyrannical law making". No thanks, I'd rather every single politician live under the fear of the metaphorical "Sword of Damocles" every waking second so that they can't do corrupt shit. And that means it requires us, the armed citizenry, to constantly keep tabs on the politicians and cut the string on the "Sword of Damocles" and impale any politician that has gone rogue. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 12/30/19 4:14:22 AM #78:	TerranceC posted... Exactly, this country has the worst random gun violence in the world and yet are some of the least educated and least prepared for these situations. More awareness/training on how to avoid getting shot, more training on what to do if you get shot and arent dead or incapacitated or if someone around you is shot and needs medical care. I feel even worse than the people freezing up is the fact that after this guy got shot he got up and no one knew what to do, no one knew how to give him medical attention and just waited for the doctor to come. Granted Id be guilty of this too but thats why its on my to do list in the near future, might save someone life that is close to me one day. Using First-Aid / IFAK training should be taught by middle school at least. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:932229134] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>Exactly, this country has the worst random gun violence in the world and yet are some of the least educated and least prepared for these situations. More awareness/training on how to avoid getting shot, more training on what to do if you get shot and arent dead or incapacitated or if someone around you is shot and needs medical care. I feel even worse than the people freezing up is the fact that after this guy got shot he got up and no one knew what to do, no one knew how to give him medical attention and just waited for the doctor to come. Granted Id be guilty of this too but thats why its on my to do list in the near future, might save someone life that is close to me one day.</quote>Using First-Aid / IFAK training should be taught by middle school at least. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:16:11 AM #79:	Keebs05 posted... I'll give you this. The guy almost casually went for his gun. That was a bit of a headscratcher. Where was he supposed to go? He was literally cornered. You have a church full of, what appears to me, majority elderly people. Reflexes slow as you age. It's human nature to look first when you hear something loud and abrupt. Not everybody is an extensively-trained operator. That's a straight up lie. Enrollment in self defense has increased sharply, firearms training has increased (although not nearly high enough) and many places conduct active shooter drills. Was he cornered? Looked like there was some desk he couldve jumped behind but its hard to see. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932229163] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Keebs05 posted... </cite> <quote>I'll give you this. The guy almost casually went for his gun. That was a bit of a headscratcher. Where was he supposed to go? He was literally cornered. You have a church full of, what appears to me, majority elderly people. Reflexes slow as you age. It's human nature to look first when you hear something loud and abrupt. Not everybody is an extensively-trained operator. That's a straight up lie. Enrollment in self defense has increased sharply, firearms training has increased (although not nearly high enough) and many places conduct active shooter drills.</quote> Was he cornered? Looked like there was some desk he couldve jumped behind but its hard to see. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:19:00 AM #80:	Also Ill give you the elderly thing, I rewatched and it looks like a lot of them are trying to take cover or run but they are too old. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932229191] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Also Ill give you the elderly thing, I rewatched and it looks like a lot of them are trying to take cover or run but they are too old. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 12/30/19 4:23:08 AM #81:	TerranceC posted... Also Ill give you the elderly thing, I rewatched and it looks like a lot of them are trying to take cover or run but they are too old. Old people are generally slow on reaction time and general movement. So that shouldn't surprise anybody. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:932229262] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>Also Ill give you the elderly thing, I rewatched and it looks like a lot of them are trying to take cover or run but they are too old.</quote>Old people are generally slow on reaction time and general movement. So that shouldn't surprise anybody. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:24:50 AM #82:	The second guy succumbed to his injuries and died at the hospital earlier. Very sad. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932229289] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>The second guy succumbed to his injuries and died at the hospital earlier. Very sad. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:25:54 AM #83:	Also you cant see it on the video but the second guy was also very old so that probably explains why he froze up. He was 64 years old. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932229308] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Also you cant see it on the video but the second guy was also very old so that probably explains why he froze up. He was 64 years old. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TerranceC 12/30/19 4:28:29 AM #84:	KamenRiderBlade posted... And yet countless politicians continue to advance for the disarmament of the people so they can subjugate us willy nilly, not giving a damn what happens to us, while they are protected by expensive private security. They don't want us to be able to protect ourselves. The best tool to protect ourselves is literally right there, stated in the constitution. Yet they want to strip it from us for fear of us people getting in the way of their not so subtle desire to subjugate the populace under their "Kindly Veiled, but back handed methods of Tyrannical law making". No thanks, I'd rather every single politician live under the fear of the metaphorical "Sword of Damocles" every waking second so that they can't do corrupt shit. And that means it requires us, the armed citizenry, to constantly keep tabs on the politicians and cut the string on the "Sword of Damocles" and impale any politician that has gone rogue. Well this is nonsense unfortunate. Our government has grown far too powerful in the last century and can impose any sort of martial law at will and theres nothing anyone can do about it realistically. Hell the average citizen cant even react or defend themselves against a shit shot with a .22 let alone a trained killer with a fully automatic rifle. <cite>TerranceC posted [p:932229346] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>KamenRiderBlade posted... </cite> <quote>And yet countless politicians continue to advance for the disarmament of the people so they can subjugate us willy nilly, not giving a damn what happens to us, while they are protected by expensive private security. They don't want us to be able to protect ourselves. The best tool to protect ourselves is literally right there, stated in the constitution. Yet they want to strip it from us for fear of us people getting in the way of their not so subtle desire to subjugate the populace under their "Kindly Veiled, but back handed methods of Tyrannical law making". No thanks, I'd rather every single politician live under the fear of the metaphorical "Sword of Damocles" every waking second so that they can't do corrupt shit. And that means it requires us, the armed citizenry, to constantly keep tabs on the politicians and cut the string on the "Sword of Damocles" and impale any politician that has gone rogue.</quote> Well this is nonsense unfortunate. Our government has grown far too powerful in the last century and can impose any sort of martial law at will and theres nothing anyone can do about it realistically. Hell the average citizen cant even react or defend themselves against a shit shot with a .22 let alone a trained killer with a fully automatic rifle. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dreaming_King 12/30/19 7:37:15 AM #85:	TerranceC posted... Like you countered the point with some ridiculous corner case, that isnt productive to the conversation. If you think someone pointing out that one of your convictions you went on and on about so surely for several posts is in fact wrong- TerranceC posted... Unless we are talking about a burglary or something and not a public shooting, aiming a weapon at someone is illegal. -isn't productive I don't know what you're on about. The goal of any conversation like this should be to move towards the actual best solution to the problem, not stubbornly only pursuing what you think is the best option. .Thus misinformation shouldn't be spread around just because it helps your point. --- Nil- <cite>Dreaming_King posted [p:932231814] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>Like you countered the point with some ridiculous corner case, that isnt productive to the conversation.</quote>If you think someone pointing out that one of your convictions you went on and on about so surely for several posts is in fact wrong- TerranceC posted... </cite> <quote>Unless we are talking about a burglary or something and not a public shooting, aiming a weapon at someone is illegal.</quote>-isn't productive I don't know what you're on about. The goal of any conversation like this should be to move towards the actual best solution to the problem, not stubbornly only pursuing what you think is the best option. .Thus misinformation shouldn't be spread around just because it helps your point. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SunWuKung420 12/30/19 9:26:04 AM #86:	Everyone should be prepared to handle the unexpected. --- Align your chakras, it starts with your breathing. http://www.arfalpha.com/ScienceOfBreath/ScienceOfBreath.htm <cite>SunWuKung420 posted [p:932233889] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Everyone should be prepared to handle the unexpected.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
b_hamnite 12/30/19 10:11:26 AM #87:	Account created this month, has posted nothing but gloom and doom topics...enjoy the ignore list, tc. --- I miss the days when you could bring a game home and play, no updates to wait for. Now, get off my lawn. <cite>b_hamnite posted [p:932234921] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Account created this month, has posted nothing but gloom and doom topics...enjoy the ignore list, tc. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Krazy_Kirby 12/30/19 10:17:21 AM #88:	FatalAccident posted... How do you solve the gun crisis? Moar gunz lol Gotta love American logic make guns illegal so only criminals have them? --- Kill From The Shadows. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot <cite>Krazy_Kirby posted [p:932235107] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>FatalAccident posted...</cite> <quote>How do you solve the gun crisis? Moar gunz lol Gotta love American logic </quote> make guns illegal so only criminals have them?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KamenRiderBlade 12/30/19 1:01:46 PM #89:	Krazy_Kirby posted... make guns illegal so only criminals have them? Ah yes, leave innocent civilians to be lamb waiting to be slaughtered. What a brilliant solution that you proposed. --- Are you a MexiCAN or a MexiCAN'T - Johnny Depp '*Once Upon A Time in Mexico*' <cite>KamenRiderBlade posted [p:932240536] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Krazy_Kirby posted... </cite> <quote>make guns illegal so only criminals have them?</quote>Ah yes, leave innocent civilians to be lamb waiting to be slaughtered. What a brilliant solution that you proposed. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_AdjI_ 12/30/19 1:55:19 PM #90:	Kyuubi4269 posted... I've been arguing for training this whole time, now you think you can flip it? lol The fact that the word "training" appears in the description of both concepts doesn't make them equivalent. One example of training reduces risk (and, by extension, potential for harm), the other reduces harm after the risk has already happened. Kyuubi4269 posted... Define "reasonable measures". Broadly, measures which are not expected to cost more than the reward they'll yield (both in terms of resources and in terms of human impact). Obviously there's some subjectivity in determining the reasonableness of a given suggestion, but this is an assessment that can very easily be conducted objectively, especially when you start getting multiple viewpoints in there. Specific to this issue? Mandatory background checks on gun sales that include psych evals, mandatory waiting period on gun sales (mostly helps with suicides, but also reduces other gun violence), enforcing these requirements on private sales, stricter storage requirements, improved (read: any) access to mental health services, mental health services in schools that focus on early detection and intervention, a cultural shift toward supporting victims of bullying (in school and otherwise), conflict resolution programs in high-violence areas... there's no shortage of ideas that can be expected to help address gun violence that don't significantly impact people that are doing nothing wrong. They just require the right to get over the "MUH GUNZ" paranoia instilled by the NRA's propaganda and this obsession with not paying for anyone else's health care regardless of how beneficial it is for the country as a whole. Kyuubi4269 posted... It's as though they're not the only, or even most important, factors involved in US mass shootings. The UK has free healthcare and heavily restricted gun control yet we had a school shooting once. Switzerland has guns everywhere and there's none I know of. What I see is no direct correlation between legal gun ownership, mental health services and mass shootings but some people still assume there's a neat cure-all sitting neatly between them. Again, you don't need to get to zero. You're never going to get to zero. It's a nice idea, but it's just not going to happen. That doesn't mean you can't address contributing factors instead of just throwing your hands in the air and saying there's nothing you can do about it. That one Onion headline keeps being relevant. Kyuubi4269 posted... What he did was trolling. That doesn't make what he did harmless, but it also doesn't make it a terroristic threat. It sits in a window of greyness you're not willing to take on board. He acted in a manner that he knew was going to make people feel scared and threatened. That's a threat. That's not black-and-white thinking, that's the simple reality of what he was doing. Can it be called trolling? Sure. But that's just as pointless as bringing up that a murderer assaulted their victim. The threat/murder is the important part, not the trolling/assault. KamenRiderBlade posted... Most people would rather live under the false sense of security that police or somebody will come save them instead of the harsh reality that they have to save themselves first before police or backup can get there. 911/Police are literally tens of minutes away usually when you need solutions done in < 1 min. That means fighting back. Do you have an AED in your house? <cite>_AdjI_ posted [p:932242682] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>I've been arguing for training this whole time, now you think you can flip it? lol</quote> The fact that the word "training" appears in the description of both concepts doesn't make them equivalent. One example of training reduces risk (and, by extension, potential for harm), the other reduces harm after the risk has already happened. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>Define "reasonable measures".</quote> Broadly, measures which are not expected to cost more than the reward they'll yield (both in terms of resources and in terms of human impact). Obviously there's some subjectivity in determining the reasonableness of a given suggestion, but this is an assessment that can very easily be conducted objectively, especially when you start getting multiple viewpoints in there. Specific to this issue? Mandatory background checks on gun sales that include psych evals, mandatory waiting period on gun sales (mostly helps with suicides, but also reduces other gun violence), enforcing these requirements on private sales, stricter storage requirements, improved (read: any) access to mental health services, mental health services in schools that focus on early detection and intervention, a cultural shift toward supporting victims of bullying (in school and otherwise), conflict resolution programs in high-violence areas... there's no shortage of ideas that can be expected to help address gun violence that don't significantly impact people that are doing nothing wrong. They just require the right to get over the "MUH GUNZ" paranoia instilled by the NRA's propaganda and this obsession with not paying for anyone else's health care regardless of how beneficial it is for the country as a whole. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>It's as though they're not the only, or even most important, factors involved in US mass shootings. The UK has free healthcare and heavily restricted gun control yet we had a school shooting once. Switzerland has guns everywhere and there's none I know of. What I see is no direct correlation between legal gun ownership, mental health services and mass shootings but some people still assume there's a neat cure-all sitting neatly between them.</quote> Again, you don't need to get to zero. You're never going to get to zero. It's a nice idea, but it's just not going to happen. That doesn't mean you can't address contributing factors instead of just throwing your hands in the air and saying there's nothing you can do about it. That one Onion headline keeps being relevant. Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>What he did was trolling. That doesn't make what he did harmless, but it also doesn't make it a terroristic threat. It sits in a window of greyness you're not willing to take on board.</quote> He acted in a manner that he knew was going to make people feel scared and threatened. That's a threat. That's not black-and-white thinking, that's the simple reality of what he was doing. Can it be called trolling? Sure. But that's just as pointless as bringing up that a murderer assaulted their victim. The threat/murder is the important part, not the trolling/assault. KamenRiderBlade posted... </cite> <quote>Most people would rather live under the false sense of security that police or somebody will come save them instead of the harsh reality that they have to save themselves first before police or backup can get there. 911/Police are literally tens of minutes away usually when you need solutions done in < 1 min. That means fighting back.</quote> Do you have an AED in your house? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
dedbus 12/30/19 2:11:25 PM #91:	America is in a period of cultural destabilization which is usually rough on societies. <cite>dedbus posted [p:932243371] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>America is in a period of cultural destabilization which is usually rough on societies. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Krazy_Kirby 12/30/19 2:14:25 PM #92:	KamenRiderBlade posted... Ah yes, leave innocent civilians to be lamb waiting to be slaughtered. What a brilliant solution that you proposed. clearly didn't get the tone of what i was suggesting. they think more guns is a bad idea --- Kill From The Shadows. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot <cite>Krazy_Kirby posted [p:932243515] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>KamenRiderBlade posted...</cite> <quote> Ah yes, leave innocent civilians to be lamb waiting to be slaughtered. What a brilliant solution that you proposed. </quote> clearly didn't get the tone of what i was suggesting. they think more guns is a bad idea</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Yellow 12/30/19 2:17:29 PM #93:	More guns is a bad idea? --- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZNqaAh6iLU <cite>Yellow posted [p:932243646] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>More guns is a bad idea? </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 12/30/19 2:24:21 PM #94:	_AdjI_ posted... Obviously there's some subjectivity in determining the reasonableness of a given suggestion, but this is an assessment that can very easily be conducted objectively, especially when you start getting multiple viewpoints in there. The issue is that there is no objective right answer as every person values every aspect differently, there will always be a sizeable group that feels completely infringed upon. But of course if you're the kind of person that goes "Everyone who voted Trump is literally Hitler", you're going to consider it objectively right to shit on people who disagree with you. _AdjI_ posted... Mandatory background checks on gun sales that include psych evals How do you know a sale has occurred that requires a check? Guns can change hands invisibly, they're analog items, there's no means to track them. _AdjI_ posted... mandatory waiting period on gun sales That only stops business sales, there's more than enough in circulation to trade and restore old guns without regulation. _AdjI_ posted... improved (read: any) access to mental health services Is there any evidence that mental health services has intercepted any shooting? And why would somebody who wants to shoot the public want to engage with a public service? They're a bit far gone to interact with society willingly. There's also the issue of cost and intention of the particular practitioner. It's a for-profit system, there's motivation to be predatory. _AdjI_ posted... mental health services in schools that focus on early detection and intervention If people are being stopped and segragated in schools, there's even more isolation separating them from their peers. It's also expensive so not particularly viable. _AdjI_ posted... a cultural shift toward supporting victims of bullying Good luck. That's what's needed, but that's not helping people now or anybody in the near-future so doesn't negate the need for people to be trained now to deal with a shooting. _AdjI_ posted... conflict resolution programs in high-violence areas What does that even mean? --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:932243933] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>_AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Obviously there's some subjectivity in determining the reasonableness of a given suggestion, but this is an assessment that can very easily be conducted objectively, especially when you start getting multiple viewpoints in there.</quote> The issue is that there is no objective right answer as every person values every aspect differently, there will always be a sizeable group that feels completely infringed upon. But of course if you're the kind of person that goes "Everyone who voted Trump is literally Hitler", you're going to consider it objectively right to shit on people who disagree with you. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Mandatory background checks on gun sales that include psych evals</quote> How do you know a sale has occurred that requires a check? Guns can change hands invisibly, they're analog items, there's no means to track them. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>mandatory waiting period on gun sales</quote> That only stops business sales, there's more than enough in circulation to trade and restore old guns without regulation. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>improved (read: any) access to mental health services</quote> Is there any evidence that mental health services has intercepted any shooting? And why would somebody who wants to shoot the public want to engage with a public service? They're a bit far gone to interact with society willingly. There's also the issue of cost and intention of the particular practitioner. It's a for-profit system, there's motivation to be predatory. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>mental health services in schools that focus on early detection and intervention</quote> If people are being stopped and segragated in schools, there's even more isolation separating them from their peers. It's also expensive so not particularly viable. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>a cultural shift toward supporting victims of bullying</quote> Good luck. That's what's needed, but that's not helping people now or anybody in the near-future so doesn't negate the need for people to be trained now to deal with a shooting. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>conflict resolution programs in high-violence areas</quote> What does that even mean?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Kyuubi4269 12/30/19 2:24:24 PM #95:	_AdjI_ posted... there's no shortage of ideas that can be expected to help address gun violence that don't significantly impact people that are doing nothing wrong. They're just very costly, slow-acting and questionably effective. There's not enough cash in the US to fix these issues in even the next 10 years. _AdjI_ posted... Again, you don't need to get to zero. You're never going to get to zero. It's a nice idea, but it's just not going to happen. That doesn't mean you can't address contributing factors instead of just throwing your hands in the air and saying there's nothing you can do about it. I'm saying they're not notable contributing factors. Tackling them is like pissing on a flame. It may help a bit but it will cost you a lot of resources and you will still have a sizeable problem on your hands when you're done. _AdjI_ posted... He acted in a manner that he knew was going to make people feel scared and threatened. That's a threat. That's presenting as a threat, it's not being threatening. There's no intent to harm, the intent is to troll, which he did. --- Doctor Foxx posted... The demonizing of soy has a lot to do with xenophobic ideas. <cite>Kyuubi4269 posted [p:932243938] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>_AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>there's no shortage of ideas that can be expected to help address gun violence that don't significantly impact people that are doing nothing wrong.</quote> They're just very costly, slow-acting and questionably effective. There's not enough cash in the US to fix these issues in even the next 10 years. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>Again, you don't need to get to zero. You're never going to get to zero. It's a nice idea, but it's just not going to happen. That doesn't mean you can't address contributing factors instead of just throwing your hands in the air and saying there's nothing you can do about it.</quote> I'm saying they're not notable contributing factors. Tackling them is like pissing on a flame. It may help a bit but it will cost you a lot of resources and you will still have a sizeable problem on your hands when you're done. _AdjI_ posted...</cite> <quote>He acted in a manner that he knew was going to make people feel scared and threatened. That's a threat.</quote> That's presenting as a threat, it's not being threatening. There's no intent to harm, the intent is to troll, which he did.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Krazy_Kirby 12/30/19 2:30:28 PM #96:	Yellow posted... More guns is a bad idea? my sarcastic response was to this... FatalAccident posted... How do you solve the gun crisis? Moar gunz lol Gotta love American logic --- Kill From The Shadows. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot <cite>Krazy_Kirby posted [p:932244188] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Yellow posted...</cite> <quote>More guns is a bad idea? </quote> my sarcastic response was to this... FatalAccident posted...</cite> <quote>How do you solve the gun crisis? Moar gunz lol Gotta love American logic </quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Krazy_Kirby 12/30/19 2:33:39 PM #97:	Kyuubi4269 posted... They're just very costly, slow-acting and questionably effective. There's not enough cash in the US to fix these issues in even the next 10 years. I'm saying they're not notable contributing factors. Tackling them is like pissing on a flame. It may help a bit but it will cost you a lot of resources and you will still have a sizeable problem on your hands when you're done. That's presenting as a threat, it's not being threatening. There's no intent to harm, the intent is to troll, which he did. intent doesn't matter. if you use an unloaded gun to rob someone, you clearly have no intention of shooting them... the vicitim doesn't know that. if the vicitim feels threatened, that is all that matters --- Kill From The Shadows. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot <cite>Krazy_Kirby posted [p:932244320] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted...</cite> <quote> They're just very costly, slow-acting and questionably effective. There's not enough cash in the US to fix these issues in even the next 10 years. I'm saying they're not notable contributing factors. Tackling them is like pissing on a flame. It may help a bit but it will cost you a lot of resources and you will still have a sizeable problem on your hands when you're done. That's presenting as a threat, it's not being threatening. There's no intent to harm, the intent is to troll, which he did.</quote> intent doesn't matter. if you use an unloaded gun to rob someone, you clearly have no intention of shooting them... the vicitim doesn't know that. if the vicitim feels threatened, that is all that matters</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Zareth 12/30/19 3:28:15 PM #98:	Kyuubi4269 posted... And why would somebody who wants to shoot the public want to engage with a public service? The idea is to give them mental health services BEFORE they get to the point of wanting to shoot the public... --- It's okay, I have no idea who I am either. https://imgur.com/WOo6wcq <cite>Zareth posted [p:932246589] in The White ... [t:78291460]...</cite> <quote>Kyuubi4269 posted... </cite> <quote>And why would somebody who wants to shoot the public want to engage with a public service?</quote>The idea is to give them mental health services BEFORE they get to the point of wanting to shoot the public... </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Topic List	Page List: 1, 2

Poll of the Day > The White Settlement shooting shows why everyone needs to take combat training (+) Yeah! (+)

Poll of the Day > The White Settlement shooting shows why everyone needs to take combat training