Current Events > Hey, remember that time Captain Janeway straight up murdered Tuvix?

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Medussa
12/28/19 11:55:34 AM
#51:


BeyondWalls posted...
Reminder: The transporter split Riker and made two different Rikers. The one we know and Lt Tom Riker. This is public knowledge. Voyager could have made two Tuvixs. Then cured one.

not really. the events that led to Thomas Riker needed the conditions of a very specific planet. who knows if another one even exists, let alone the likelihood of finding it.

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Tyranthraxus
12/28/19 12:06:43 PM
#52:


There was another episode of Voyager that was basically the story of Fire Emblem Fates. I wonder if I can find the name of it.

But basically there was this alien species that somehow got a corpse of a human and resurrected it but the process turned her into one of the aliens. The doc finds a way to turn her back to a human and then there's a huge fight over whether she should go live with the people who raised her (the aliens) or go back to the place of her birth with Janeway.

Honestly there were some pretty good episodes with great moral implications in Voyager.

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#53
Post #53 was unavailable or deleted.
Sunhawk
12/28/19 12:15:54 PM
#54:


*spoilers*

I liked how the Doctor refused point blank to split Tuvix into the other two characters, because of the Hippocratic Oath. I did find it strange, however, when Tuvix tried to flee the ship, he made a complete hash of it. I mean, he had Tuvok's knowledge, he could've just pre-programmed the computer to beam him and a shuttlecraft off the ship, and also could've disabled the warp engines of Voyager, and then escaped. Instead, he just tries to run away from the bridge. Like a jerk. He almost deserved to die.

Although, regarding Noami Wildman and Kim being copies, I don't think that matters at all. There was the "real" versions of Wildman and Kim, just as much as the ones who died.

Excellent series, IMHO.


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UnfairRepresent
12/28/19 12:22:12 PM
#55:


Sunhawk posted...
*spoilers*

I liked how the Doctor refused point blank to split Tuvix into the other two characters, because of the Hippocratic Oath. I did find it strange, however, when Tuvix tried to flee the ship, he made a complete hash of it. I mean, he had Tuvok's knowledge, he could've just pre-programmed the computer to beam him and a shuttlecraft off the ship, and also could've disabled the warp engines of Voyager, and then escaped. Instead, he just tries to run away from the bridge. Like a jerk. He almost deserved to die.

Although, regarding Noami Wildman and Kim being copies, I don't think that matters at all. There was the "real" versions of Wildman and Kim, just as much as the ones who died.

Excellent series, IMHO.


I think it was panic dude
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BeyondWalls
12/28/19 12:30:45 PM
#56:


Sunhawk posted...
and also could've disabled the warp engines of Voyager, and then escaped. Instead, he just tries to run away from the bridge. Like a jerk
Well, he also had Neelix's ability to fuck things up working against him. So....

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Marmitecashews
12/28/19 12:56:37 PM
#57:


cjsdowg posted...
She is a horrible person, there is no justification for what she did. Hell since he was right there, they could have even spent more time to find way to try to spit them and keep Tuvix alive.
Kirk and Picard probably would have found a way (if something similar had happened on their ships).

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BeyondWalls
12/28/19 1:21:43 PM
#58:


Marmitecashews posted...
Kirk and Picard probably would have found a way
Reminder: They actually reconstructed a new body for Picard by using a pattern left stored in the Transporter buffer. Probably could have restored Tuvix the same way.

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Medussa
12/28/19 1:36:29 PM
#59:


yeah. everyone jokes about Voyager's deflector dish being op, but Federation transporters are literally magic.

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cjsdowg
12/28/19 1:50:15 PM
#60:


Thinking about it more, that irks me even more.

This isn't a morally gray area. You can't murder someone even if it saves 2 other people. This isn't like making a judgement call to crash into 2 people and not a crowd of people. This is more like murdering one person and harvesting their organs to save 2 people lives .

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UnfairRepresent
12/28/19 3:26:11 PM
#61:


cjsdowg posted...
Thinking about it more, that irks me even more.

This isn't a morally gray area. You can't murder someone even if it saves 2 other people. This isn't like making a judgement call to crash into 2 people and not a crowd of people. This is more like murdering one person and harvesting their organs to save 2 people lives .

Analogy only works if the guy you murdered killed those 2 people by stealing their organs

And you're just returning them
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Rhylos
12/28/19 5:20:33 PM
#62:


I've been marathoning Voyager the past few weeks and saw this episode, and it's still pretty shocking how Janeway literally just says fuck everyone, I'm killing Tuvix. Everyone but the doctor can't stand up to her because that'd be insubordination/mutiny.

I still enjoy the show, but since it was written for serialization barely anything is carried over throughout the seasons.
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kyujo
12/28/19 5:33:18 PM
#63:


creativerealms posted...
Whose to say Starfleet knows the details. Janeway probably made sure all records of the event painted her as correct. The only one who may have objected was the doctor and his memory can be rewritten.
They do that in another episode, but he pieces the things they erased together and they eventually let him keep the memories.

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008Zulu
12/28/19 5:51:00 PM
#64:


UnfairRepresent posted...
Netflix really isnt that bad
I feel like the people who hate him are the same people who think James Bond and Steven Seagal movies are the best characters
Heh, "Netflix" autocorrect amiright?

But seriously though, I hated the character not just because he was poorly written, and on a show of poorly written characters that's saying something, but that he never really contributed much save for being a foil to Tuvok's seriousness. Calling him "Mr Vulcan", I know it was intended as a friendly nickname, but it just seemed kind of disrespectful.

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Unsugarized_Foo
12/28/19 5:55:27 PM
#65:


Remember the time the Enterprise got trapped in a time loop?

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Big_Gold
12/28/19 6:03:48 PM
#66:


Remember when the Doctor got aroused in Seven's body?

But seriously, that episode featured a pretty good performance by Jeri Ryan.
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SuperShake666
12/29/19 5:43:21 AM
#67:


Tyranthraxus posted...


Honestly there were some pretty good episodes with great moral implications in Voyager.

That were abandoned by the next episode, leaving Janeway a fucking Vice Admiral by the end of Nemesis. Fuck Rick Berman with a broken, rusty pipe.

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pegusus123456
12/29/19 6:05:39 AM
#68:


Honestly, I don't disagree with Janeway getting promoted to Admiral. The writing may be shoddy as fuck, but just go strictly by what happened. She cut down a 75 year trip to seven, she mapped out vast areas of previously unknown space, and she dealt a possibly fatal blow to the Borg. Put in those terms, she deserves the promotion.

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SuperShake666
12/29/19 6:12:31 AM
#69:


pegusus123456 posted...
Honestly, I don't disagree with Janeway getting promoted to Admiral. The writing may be shoddy as fuck, but just go strictly by what happened. She cut down a 75 year trip to seven, she mapped out vast areas of previously unknown space, and she dealt a possibly fatal blow to the Borg. Put in those terms, she deserves the promotion.

If you ignore the 200 warcrimes that got here there, sure.

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008Zulu
12/29/19 6:20:03 AM
#70:


pegusus123456 posted...
Honestly, I don't disagree with Janeway getting promoted to Admiral. The writing may be shoddy as fuck, but just go strictly by what happened. She cut down a 75 year trip to seven, she mapped out vast areas of previously unknown space, and she dealt a possibly fatal blow to the Borg. Put in those terms, she deserves the promotion.
The Borg are doing just fine. The MMO, Star Trek Online, is considered "soft-canon", and they are still cruising around, doing their thing.

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Southernfatman
12/29/19 6:37:43 AM
#71:


Sounds like Janeway became an admiral to fill in the evil asshole admiral quota Starfleet has.

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RiKuToTheMiGhtY
12/29/19 6:39:36 AM
#72:


Southernfatman posted...
Sounds like Janeway became an admiral to fill in the evil asshole admiral quota Starfleet has.
If it aint broke dont fix it ??

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SuperShake666
12/29/19 6:50:47 AM
#73:


008Zulu posted...
The Borg are doing just fine. The MMO, Star Trek Online, is considered "soft-canon", and they are still cruising around, doing their thing.

I haven't touched that in years, any ST nerds in here know if it's worth trying these days?

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pegusus123456
12/29/19 8:45:38 AM
#74:


SuperShake666 posted...
If you ignore the 200 warcrimes that got here there, sure.
You gotta take it in the context of the Star Trek universe where the war crimes weren't war crimes.

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KamenRiderBlade
12/29/19 9:56:35 AM
#75:


Southernfatman posted...
Sounds like Janeway became an admiral to fill in the evil asshole admiral quota Starfleet has.
She's on the "Less Evil" side of all those Evil Asshole Admirals.

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Tyranthraxus
12/29/19 9:59:35 AM
#76:


pegusus123456 posted...
Honestly, I don't disagree with Janeway getting promoted to Admiral. The writing may be shoddy as fuck, but just go strictly by what happened. She cut down a 75 year trip to seven, she mapped out vast areas of previously unknown space, and she dealt a possibly fatal blow to the Borg. Put in those terms, she deserves the promotion.

Species 8472 was the biggest fucking bullshit ever introduce in any series. Her "fatal blow" to the Borg is both completely undeserved and ridiculous in its premise. It's worse than some shit like convincing Q to extinct the species because it happened by pure luck.

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BeyondWalls
12/29/19 10:50:08 AM
#77:


Tyranthraxus posted...
Species 8472 was the biggest fucking bullshit ever introduce in any series. Her "fatal blow" to the Borg is both completely undeserved and ridiculous in its premise. It's worse than some shit like convincing Q to extinct the species because it happened by pure luck.
That wasnt the fatal blow I believe hes referring to. In the finale Janeway kills the Borg Queen and blows up some important Borg complex. I forget what exactly it is.

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Tyranthraxus
12/29/19 1:51:27 PM
#78:


BeyondWalls posted...
That wasnt the fatal blow I believe hes referring to. In the finale Janeway kills the Borg Queen and blows up some important Borg complex. I forget what exactly it is.

That is the finale. Species 8472 which comes from another dimension and is basically the Zerg for some reason have weapons that the Borg cannot adapt to (no explanation) and a single one of their vessels just shreds Borg cubes and Voyager goes into their dimension which is fluid instead of a vacuum because lol physics lol gravity and then they do some stupid ass shit that links a bunch of wormholes together and old Janeway that actually took 70 years to get back to federation space drags young Janeway + Voyager through one of the wormholes while simultaneously exploding something through all of the wormholes that the Borg were using to fight species 8472 blowing up like millions of Borg cubes and everything was stupid.

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Southernfatman
12/29/19 2:06:20 PM
#79:


I'm guessing the thinking was "People loved First Contact! Let's put more Borgs and explosions in there!"?

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KamenRiderBlade
12/29/19 6:07:00 PM
#80:


Don't forget Species 8472 Combo Ship Death Star Planet Killer Beam that wrecked a Borg Planet in a single group combined attack.

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008Zulu
12/29/19 7:41:47 PM
#81:


SuperShake666 posted...
I haven't touched that in years, any ST nerds in here know if it's worth trying these days?
The ground combat is still janky as hell. Space Combat is still fun, but I myself haven't played it in a few months.

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pegusus123456
12/30/19 3:18:45 AM
#82:


Tyranthraxus posted...
That is the finale. Species 8472 which comes from another dimension and is basically the Zerg for some reason have weapons that the Borg cannot adapt to (no explanation) and a single one of their vessels just shreds Borg cubes and Voyager goes into their dimension which is fluid instead of a vacuum because lol physics lol gravity and then they do some stupid ass shit that links a bunch of wormholes together and old Janeway that actually took 70 years to get back to federation space drags young Janeway + Voyager through one of the wormholes while simultaneously exploding something through all of the wormholes that the Borg were using to fight species 8472 blowing up like millions of Borg cubes and everything was stupid.
You're combining two different episodes.

The finale just involves Admiral Janeway going back in time with technology from her time. It's advanced enough that the Borg can't instantly adapt to it. She leads them to a Borg transwarp hub which is what allows them to travel so much faster than normal warp speed. Admiral Janeway wants to just use it to send Voyager home, but Captain Janeway and the crew decide that they should destroy it because it would cripple the Borg's ability to move around the galaxy. Blahblahblah shit happens, they manage to blow up the hub and Admiral Janeway also baits the Queen into assimilating her which infects the Queen and the Collective with some kinda bullshit technodisease. Either or both of these things are implied to be a fatal blow, even if later Trek properties say otherwise.

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darkphoenix181
12/30/19 3:21:15 AM
#83:


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pegusus123456
12/30/19 3:22:50 AM
#84:


They're like 1 of 2 Star Trek aliens that aren't just humans in makeup.

Naturally, their final episode involves them taking the form of humans.

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cjsdowg
12/30/19 3:35:11 AM
#85:


pegusus123456 posted...
Honestly, I don't disagree with Janeway getting promoted to Admiral. The writing may be shoddy as fuck, but just go strictly by what happened. She cut down a 75 year trip to seven, she mapped out vast areas of previously unknown space, and she dealt a possibly fatal blow to the Borg. Put in those terms, she deserves the promotion.

Well most Admirals are horrible people in the world of ST. So she fits right in.

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Rhylos
12/31/19 1:54:45 PM
#86:


What about the episode where Seven metoo'd a guy into killing himself
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BeyondWalls
12/31/19 2:05:40 PM
#87:


Rhylos posted...
What about the episode where Seven metoo'd a guy into killing himself
At least she has the excuse of being a nut job. Janeway made a calm and reasoned out choice to murder a crew mate.

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Notti
01/02/20 5:48:51 AM
#88:


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pegusus123456
01/02/20 5:50:10 AM
#89:


Notti posted...
Was he really a crew mate? How'd he get any credentials to be an officer.
He had all of Tuvok's training and all of Neelix's undeserved authority. It's a wonder he wasn't made captain.

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DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC
01/02/20 7:14:50 AM
#90:


SuperShake666 posted...
If you ignore the 200 warcrimes that got here there, sure.
No no, the war crimes are WHY they kicked her upstairs. As an Admiral, she's confined to one place. ^_^

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KamenRiderBlade
01/02/20 12:14:27 PM
#91:


DiScOrD tHe LuNaTiC posted...
No no, the war crimes are WHY they kicked her upstairs. As an Admiral, she's confined to one place. ^_^
The war crimes are her initiation / rite of passage to Admiralty.

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