Current Events > Differing opinions should never prevent friendships.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think that's gotta be my new years resolution, I do it too much, but so do a lot of others. Keeping differing opinions out means making it too easy to treat the other side as caricature, when in reality they're more complex people with legitimate issues. Remember, those people you quote on the other side, acting like assholes? Most of the other side thinks they're assholes to, and you think the same for your own side. More often than not

That's great and all, but people who didn't like TLJ are still fucking morons.

Meh, sometimes people can be so toxic with their opinions that it can be difficult to tolerate, and I don't believe friendship should be based on tolerating someone

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I dunno, depends on the opinion and how strongly I feel about it.

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That's fucking stupid. For example I could never be friends with someone who supports the British Conservative Party. No way would I be friends with someone with opinions that mean they support policies that actively lead to needless death and suffering. Fuck those people.

ThanksUglyGod posted...

That's great and all, but people who didn't like TLJ are still fucking morons.

I probably am but it's fine :)

eston posted...

Meh, sometimes people can be so toxic with their opinions that it can be difficult to tolerate, and I don't believe friendship should be based on tolerating someone

But then it isn't the opinions fault, is it? You'd be disliking them for acting like that about any opinion, because it's just someone going overboard. They're assholes because they're pushy or annoying, not because of what they believe.

p-m posted...

That's fucking stupid. For example I could never be friends with someone who supports the British Conservative Party. No way would I be friends with someone with opinions that mean they support policies that actively lead to needless death and suffering. Fuck those people.

Guess what? You either don't know how most of your friends feel about that, or you're that guy who talks about it too much and annoys other. Slightly oversimplified but generally true

OctilIery posted...

But then it isn't the opinions fault, is it? You'd be disliking them for acting like that about any opinion, because it's just someone going overboard. They're assholes because they're pushy or annoying, not because of what they believe.

Some beliefs make one automatically an asshole though. Not all opinions have nuance. Beliefs don't exist outside of people. They are created by them.

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hockeybub89 posted...

Some beliefs make one automatically an asshole though. Not all opinions have nuance. Beliefs don't exist outside of people. They are created by them.

No belief changes a person so thoroughly they're restricted ro being thoroughly good or thoroughly bad.

This is some next level stupidity.

The amount of privilege someone has to possess to believe this

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OctilIery posted...

No belief changes a person so thoroughly they're restricted ro being thoroughly good or thoroughly bad.

My point was that beliefs don't do shit. Certain beliefs can make you automatically bad because only an asshole would choose to believe those things in the first place. Beliefs are a reflection of the person you are.

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Very fine people.

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Someone believes gay people should die? Disabled people should die? Transgender people deserve to be murdered? Someone believes whites should rule over everyone else? These are increasingly common opinions and people who hold them are fucking worthless pieces of shit and if you deny that then I don't know what the fuck is wrong with you.

hockeybub89 posted...

My point was that beliefs don't do shit. Certain beliefs can make you automatically bad because only an asshole would choose to believe those things in the first place. Beliefs are a reflection of the person you are.

But.... No. Not really. When you think like that you inevitably treat those that say it like a caricature because you never get to know them and never see the variation. It's easy to believe someone might not learn something obvious to you when the people who say it are blatantly looking down on them. You can disagree even to extremes but still enjoy each other's company, unless you aren't actually allowed to.

Why would differing opinions prevent friendships? I've recently realized that I'm the only Trump supporter among my friends. That hasn't affected our bonds at all.
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p-m posted...

Someone believes gay people should die? Disabled people should die? Transgender people deserve to be murdered? Someone believes whites should rule over everyone else? These are increasingly common opinions and people who hold them are fucking worthless pieces of shit and if you deny that then I don't know what the fuck is wrong with you.

A kid is taught this as a child by where he grows up. As the kid talks to people outside his world, they treat him like shit because of those opinions and so associate people against thay opinion with assholes. Why would they listen to you?

You aren't hurting people by being friendly with them. If they're bringing it up constantly, then leave them, but if they let you leave it unsaid you can enjoy their company and cause no harm.

TheRealDill2011 posted...

Why would differing opinions prevent friendships? I've recently realized that I'm the only Trump supporter among my friends. That hasn't affected our bonds at all.

It doesn't for everyone. It's a problem a lot of people have. Just don't talk about it with them, if you can't do that then fix the problem.

I cant get on board with this.

I wouldnt let it prevent me from being friendly, depending on the environment. But there are some people whose values are so repulsive that I could not in good conscious maintain a relationship with them.

I really dont care at all that others may feel the same way about me. If someone doesnt like me then, by all means, I hope they keep me out of their life.

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It depends, are they racists? Do they believe that gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married? Those sorts of things aren't opinions, they are denials of others essential humanity and i'm not interested in being friends with those sorts of people.

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p-m posted...

common opinions and people who hold them are fucking worthless

how do you feel about bigots in the west that perceive the manji one way and insist everyone must perceive it the same way. fuck the fact that the majority of the world don't use it or perceive it the way the west try to shove down everyones throat?

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OctilIery posted...

It doesn't for everyone. It's a problem a lot of people have. Just don't talk about it with them, if you can't do that then fix the problem.

what if the problem is their beliefs

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JustMyOpinion posted...

This is a stupid view for you to have, TC.

The old one or the new resolution?
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AlisLandale posted...

I cant get on board with this.

I wouldnt let it prevent me from being friendly, depending on the environment. But there are some people whose values are so repulsive that I could not in good conscious maintain a relationship with them.

I really dont care at all that others may feel the same way about me. If someone doesnt like me then, by all means, I hope they keep me out of their life.

Is your being friends with them going to cause harm? If not, then why should thay stop it? Being friends doesn't mean supporting anything. It might not make their opinions closer to your own, but even if it doesn't then it's still a net positive for a healthy friendship. Isolating the other side is never healthy.

Sorry, but I find it impossible for anyone to be friends with someone whose opinion is that the other person should die due to race, sex, religion, or whatever else in their opinion. It is just not possible for everyone to be friends. This train of thought belongs in a utopian fantasy world.

AlisLandale posted...

I cant get on board with this.

I wouldnt let it prevent me from being friendly, depending on the environment. But there are some people whose values are so repulsive that I could not in good conscious maintain a relationship with them.

I really dont care at all that others may feel the same way about me. If someone doesnt like me then, by all means, I hope they keep me out of their life.

Yeah. There are absolutely people that you can never be friends with, but you can tolerate or be friendly towards, though there are still outliers where even that is not possible. Insisting otherwise is like insisting that any two people hit it off romantically. Everyone does not gel and it goofy idealistic nonsense to assert otherwise. Actual, true friends are only going to be so much of a project.

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eaglei3 posted...

Sorry, but I find it impossible for anyone to be friends with someone whose opinion is that the other person should die due to race, sex, religion, or whatever else in their opinion. It is just not possible for everyone to be friends. This train of thought belongs in a utopian fantasy world.

You could help them to be more understanding rather than dismissing them entirely.
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TheRealDill2011 posted...

Why would differing opinions prevent friendships? I've recently realized that I'm the only Trump supporter among my friends. That hasn't affected our bonds at all.

Same, one my friends is a transgender leftist and we're good friends. We couldn't be more opposite politically and she calls me a fascist but it's all in fun. People who let politics get in the way of friendships tend to be very toxic.

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averagejoel posted...

what if the problem is their beliefs

Because it isn't. I'm not saying you should force yourself to be friends, I'm saying if you become friendly with someone you disagree with, don't let the disagreement ruin the friendship. You're causing zero hard by being friends with them, so if they don't bring it up then you shouldn't either.

eaglei3 posted...

Sorry, but I find it impossible for anyone to be friends with someone whose opinion is that the other person should die due to race, sex, religion, or whatever else in their opinion. It is just not possible for everyone to be friends. This train of thought belongs in a utopian fantasy world.

Exactly, "It's ok to disagree" is for things like "I like vanilla and you like strawberry," not for whether people deserve fundamental human rights or not.
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Imagine being friends with someone who thinks Hitler was the greatest human being ever

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OctilIery posted...

Because it isn't. I'm not saying you should force yourself to be friends, I'm saying if you become friendly with someone you disagree with, don't let the disagreement ruin the friendship. You're causing zero hard by being friends with them, so if they don't bring it up then you shouldn't either.

The implication here is that beliefs are a separate entity from the person, like an annoying roommate.

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I could never be friends with an Obama supporter. The man even dropped more bombs than Bush! Supporting Obama means you support the murder of innocent people, etc. etc.

El Mexicano Texano posted...

Imagine being friends with someone who thinks Hitler was the greatest human being ever

It's easy. I don't bring up politics neither does he. Given, the average person that believes that will bring it up quick, but stranger things happen. Politics are not personality and do not determine personality and shouldn't be treated as such.

I have one of the best supervisors I've ever had who looks out for me at my job but shea a hard core trump supporter and I've gotten into heated debates about it but I've never thought of her as a bad person because of it.

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OctilIery posted...

Because it isn't. I'm not saying you should force yourself to be friends, I'm saying if you become friendly with someone you disagree with, don't let the disagreement ruin the friendship. You're causing zero hard by being friends with them, so if they don't bring it up then you shouldn't either.

Of course you cause harm. If people know full well about these hateful opinions and still stay friends then they're saying the opinions are acceptable.

OctilIery posted...

It's easy. I don't bring up politics neither does he. Given, the average person that believes that will bring it up quick, but stranger things happen. Politics are not personality and do not determine personality and shouldn't be treated as such.

Youre falling for a red herring here, which undermines your argument.

Politics are not a personality, no. But your values are. And those values are what shape your politics.

Values are not so easily compartmentalized. They are the foundation for a persons decisions and actions. And a person with repugnant values will often show themselves repugnant in other ways.

Its one thing to maintain a surface level relationship with those people, because not every conflict of values needs to be fought. But its another to insist that friendships with those people are somehow intrinsically valuable and worth maintaining.

If you are capable of being friends with, hypothetically, a white supremacist, then more power to ya. But most people have nothing to gain by doing so, and lose nothing by avoiding them.

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The main problem here is that we use the word "opinion" for several distinct concepts. It's one thing to think that PS4 is better than X1 or that DC > Marvel, it's another to hold an opinion that has concrete effect on the real world.

You say it's not a big deal, but it is to many others. For instance, a gay person does not get the liberty of "not bringing up politics" when they have to consider the effect of their partner coming to the company's holiday party. The same could be said for many political views and targets.
You don't even have to be one of those groups to draw a line in the sand.

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My best friend says the f slur because he thinks it's funny, and is pretty viscerally anti-trans at points. I've known him since high school, and if he starts getting bad about it I comment on it. He's personable enough around everyone, including gay people, but if he ever got into a trans person's face and called them mentally ill or something, I would probably scold him.

Considering how much of a lefty I am, why am I friends with someone like that? Because we have a very similar sense of humour which leads to excellent banter. Outside of the shitty stuff, we're on the same wavelength where we can just talk about the worst stuff and laugh about it while everyone else thinks we're insane. That kind of friendship takes years to form, and our mutual sense of humour is one in a million.

I would also say that we're probably the most comfortable around each other. I'm a bit of an emotional crutch when my friends are going through a hard time, because I don't change much and they know I care. My friends are more extroverted than I am, so they facilitate conversations and help me interact with other people. This best friend is the social lynchpin of my entire friend group, without him I wouldn't know 3/4ths of my current friends and a lot of people wouldn't have met each other. In return, I pick him up when he falls over and offer a familiar experience, even when things are shit.

I hate when he uses the f slur, like I physically cringe. I hate it. And like I said, if he slagged off a trans person on the basis of their gender identity, I would side with the trans person. But we're such good friends otherwise, and we give each other the space we need politically. We're actually pretty close politically, it's just the identity stuff where we differ.

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OctilIery posted...

Because it isn't. I'm not saying you should force yourself to be friends, I'm saying if you become friendly with someone you disagree with, don't let the disagreement ruin the friendship. You're causing zero hard by being friends with them, so if they don't bring it up then you shouldn't either.

answer the question: what if the problem is, in fact, their beliefs?

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p-m posted...

Of course you cause harm. If people know full well about these hateful opinions and still stay friends then they're saying the opinions are acceptable.

Nope. Liking someone doesn't mean you agree with them. Being friends with them doesn't mean you agree with them. You're doing no harm.

averagejoel posted...

answer the question: what if the problem is, in fact, their beliefs?

I did answer it.

If beliefs affect the friendship, it might not have been a real one in the first place...

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A sufficiently developed and deeply held opinion is ideology, and yes, there are ideologies that will keep me from being friends with a person.


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I get along with theists and homophobics while I'm an atheist and am not homophobic. Very few people think like me in terms of all my opinions.

The funniest is when you talk about politics and they get super mad then aren't your friends anymore XD

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AlisLandale posted...

If you are capable of being friends with, hypothetically, a white supremacist, then more power to ya. But most people have nothing to gain by doing so, and lose nothing by avoiding them.

Fancy that, topic creator claims to be in law enforcement, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that he would be buddy-buddy with a white supremacist.
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OctilIery posted...

I did answer it.

no, you did not

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apocalyptic_4 posted...

I have one of the best supervisors I've ever had who looks out for me at my job but shea a hard core trump supporter and I've gotten into heated debates about it but I've never thought of her as a bad person because of it.

That's not a friendship though. Most people can agree with being amicable with coworkers even if they have bad opinions, but the only reason either party is tolerating it is for financial reasons.

The Catgirl Fondler posted...

Fancy that, topic creator claims to be in law enforcement, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that he would be buddy-buddy with a white supremacist.

I never claimed to be law enforcement.