Board 8 > unpopular opinion: trails of cold steel 3's plot is bad (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

gnomes are dumb, motivations are dumb, the cedric is awful, osborne is stupid

every plot development being "i could tell you but nah, later" was drawn out over the entire game.

random twists like ash is a sleeper agent controlled by voodoo magic (and his friends being "okay" with this, it wasn't his fault....wtf?) and gaius randomly becoming a dominion

musse cant stop hitting on rean despite being this huge mastermind which cheapens her character, like god fuck

juna was great because she's super average person compared to everyone else in the series being super omnipotent or special, so im sure cs4 she's going to be some fucking super important space policeman in cs4


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courageous shows up and then boom its exploded okay, how exciting

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I...sort of agree? I don't exactly think it's bad, but I do have issues with it that I don't think showed up in any of the other games so much.

Basically the Curse plotline is not particularly compelling to me so far, and the actions taken by the villains to get there feel sort of pointless to me as of now? It might work better after having played CS4 but that's how I feel now.

Game still shines for its characters though.
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literally the ironbloods (sans rufus) are all dumb and want the world to end because their home life sucked.

rean is okay with ash spying on him because "why"? lechter is the worst character in the series, he just knows things. why? because thats how hes written. he deduces things, and even when he doesnt know, well that's the answer.

crow being alive was so obvious. why even have him in a mask? they straight up showed zephyr dad alive and well. all the awakeners are probably people that are dead and revived themselves (exception is maybe cedric but i forget what happens at the end of tocs2)

speaking of cedric, he's probably the worst character in the fucking series. black albarea blows too. recycled plot twist in itself too. his whole speech about how his entire life was for blowing up the world and being super special was dumb. oh yeah and the entire main campus went to shit along with him, like...what the fuck?

phantasmal blaze plan was such a dumb name just for it to be "the great twilight" i mean fucking really

I totally forgot Principle vandyke existed.


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Bossman_Coolguy posted...

(exception is maybe cedric but i forget what happens at the end of tocs2)

he gets possessed by the Vermillion Apocalypse or whatever

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Only fucking antagonists that realized they were being manipulated and be like "wait THIS is what we were working towards???" was god damn Duvalie. Jesus.

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Bossman_Coolguy posted...

and gaius randomly becoming a dominion

Not random. In fact, this was a pretty prevalent theory after CS2 if you examined the hints.

In CS1 Gaius inexplicably is able to detect higher elements like Emma can. He explains it all with "the wind" but it's strange he can do so at all. Then in Chapter 5 at Lohengrin Castle, when the party gets overpowered by the orb going out of control, everyone is brought down to their knees and incapacitated... except Gaius who dodges this and is able to step back and assume a defensive stand over the kids they went to rescue. He also explains back in Nord that he was taught by a "wandering priest" which likely raises red flags for anyone who played Sky because our other example of a wandering priest is... a Dominion.

But the real substance comes in CS2 towards the end. On the last day (before Infernal Castle) there's the sidequest where the party tries to find a priest but always keeps missing him... despite the fact that the guy is apparently warping all over the Empire and is keeping ahead of the party who has the Courageous to their utter disbelief. Again, anyone who has played Sky or Crossbell knows the Dominion have their own personal special airships which would explain how in the world he could accomplish this feat. However, if you have Gaius and Sara in the party, Gaius reveals that the priest they're looking for is his old teacher and Sara thinks to herself she's heard of a guy matching this description known as "The Roaring Lion" which all but confirms Gaius was taught by a Dominion.

Bossman_Coolguy posted...

musse cant stop hitting on rean despite being this huge mastermind which cheapens her character, like god fuck

I thought it was pretty clear that Musse was both messing with him, but on the off chance it "worked" it was to get Rean on her side. It's an annoying character gimmick they run into the ground but that's a separate issue.

Bossman_Coolguy posted...

literally the ironbloods (sans rufus) are all dumb and want the world to end because their home life sucked.

They didn't know what the deal with the Great Twilight was (hell Lechter is running around Chapter 4 trying to stop things) though yes why they were sticking around during the final dungeon is a question that hopefully CS4 answers.

Bossman_Coolguy posted...

phantasmal blaze plan was such a dumb name just for it to be "the great twilight" i mean fucking really

They're two different plans. Roselia makes this abundently clear in her mid-chapter interlude where she chats with Arianrhod between... I think it was Chapters 3 and 4. Ouroboros simply comes to the decision - and this decision is what made Vita leave in protest - that they'd lend a hand to Great Twilight in order to get Phantasmal Blaze back on track after CS2 derailed it.

greengravy294 posted...

Only fucking antagonists that realized they were being manipulated and be like "wait THIS is what we were working towards???" was god damn Duvalie. Jesus.

best girl duvalie that's why

Though FWIW, I thought Xeno and Leo were also on the "wtf" train there.

Pretty sure Rutger and the Enforcers all had a working understanding of what they were getting into. The Stahlritter/Duvalie just weren't invited to the staff briefing because they're not important enough I guess. It probably helps that Shirley is a psychopath, Campanella is a troll and also clearly more in the know than maybe anyone, and McBurn just wants to fight like that's a pretty good lineup if you need a group that won't raise too much a fuss. Sharon... Sharon has questions to answer.

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Sharon basically pulled a Trails FC Joshua

I imagine she'll pull a Trails SC Joshua in CS4

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also Rufus is going to be the seventh Awakener

book it

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As for Lechter, as I understand it, his talent is more that he's a savant at cold reading. He picks up and puts together seemingly unrelated details in ways that let him realize the bigger picture on a genius level. But he needs to see/hear/get that information somehow to use it. Otherwise he's as oblivious as anyone else would be. Really the only surprise to me there was that that's how I interpreted the description of Claire's talent from CS1/2 but I guess it's more a kind of logistics genius.

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well claire and lechter gonna be like sorry dawg i goofed at whatever point in cs4, or at least claire since shes not an antagonist

the gnomes are just dumb, sorry, its like someone thought "hey wouldnt it be funny if George Nome...GNome, if he were a bad guy what a tweest" and they went along with it.

i mean in and of itself most of the antagonists are just one dimensional. they don't tell you anything, half of them are in it for the lulz (ouroboros, the dudes that want this shit to go down, are ran by shirley, campanella and mcburn. who all dont give a fuck about anything besides fighting), the other half either never tell you shit or they aren't privy to that knowledge. i'll give the benefit of the doubt to zephyr people since they didn't actually do anything antagonistic besides...standing with a bunch of class i extras at the gate

re: gaius i guess it might have been foreshadowed, but quite frankly i dont like gaius so...i never payed much attention to him. and i don't remember dominions having personal airships. i presumed the priest was teleporting just like everyone else

on a random aside: am i crazy or did Zin randomly show up in the middle of chapter 1 (destroying the archaisms)? it did look like him but...then he never showed up again...

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Trails of Azure has the best villains of any Trails game cuz the main villains aren't Ouroboros. Noble Alliance in CS2 was also more interesting than Ouroboros. There's not really anything interesting about Ouroboros, unfortunately.
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big fan of all the dudes in ouroboros that actually don't give a fuck about anything ever and want to do it because they're a bunch of mean dudes (and dudettes) without any support for them

bleublanc just needs a hug :(

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I wouldn't lump Campanella in with Shirley and McBurn but he's also never ever going to go against the Grandmaster's wishes.

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grandmaster is going to end up being that fucking recurring character from sky1/2/cs1 whatever his name was


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I always just assumed the grand master would be Aidios

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Bossman_Coolguy posted...

grandmaster is going to end up being that fucking recurring character from sky1/2/cs1 whatever his name was

Ricky is the Grandmaster but his amnesia made him forget that he's the Grandmaster

it's why Osborne was able to hijack the Phantasmal Blaze Plan

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I always thought the Grandmaster was supposed to be the Demiourgos, the Sept-Terrion of Mirage that disappeared. But that's just a theory based off of the crossbell games.

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That one actually makes sense since it would explain why they didn't need the fake septterrion that was created

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Can we all agree Cedric is the worst

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Cedric is awful yes

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Thank you

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Cedric gets a raw deal. ...until the final chapter. then he's the worst. but not before then.

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nah Cedric is bad the whole way

so much unearned arrogance

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LeonhartFour posted...

nah Cedric is bad the whole way

so much unearned arrogance

dude is clearly compensating for being powerless and used all throughout cs2

it's all insecurity.

then he joins osborne and becomes the worst but that happens later.

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I'm pretty sure he joined Osborne between the end of CS2 and the start of CS3

it's pretty strongly implied that he's an Ironblood at various points throughout the game anyway

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Can't wait for totally not dead Olivier to put him in his place

Unless he actually is dead then RIP

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Trails doesn't kill people before the very final act of a saga so I'm sure they're all alive

even Millium

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Logicblade posted...

I always thought the Grandmaster was supposed to be the Demiourgos, the Sept-Terrion of Mirage that disappeared. But that's just a theory based off of the crossbell games.

Oh wow I have never heard this theory before but this would be amazing. Please Falcom do this.
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Well yeah She's in 4's animated opening

although im wondering if it's actually her or a new model that looks like her because I feel she looks younger than she did in 3 just based on the OP

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pyresword posted...

Oh wow I have never heard this theory before but this would be amazing. Please Falcom do this.

Remind me who that is? I don't quite remember her from the Crossbell games.
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Remind me who that is? I don't quite remember her from the Crossbell games.

The physical manifestation of the sept-terrion of Mirage she's shown as a young woman in flashbacks

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ninkendo posted...

Well yeah She's in 4's animated opening

although im wondering if it's actually her or a new model that looks like her because I feel she looks younger than she did in 3 just based on the OP

I mean she's a homunculus so I imagine it's possible to recreate her although it's debatable whether she'd be considered the "same" person

or maybe they find a way to revert the sword back into Millium or something

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Mac Arrowny posted...

Remind me who that is? I don't quite remember her from the Crossbell games.

Major Ao spoilers She doesn't directly appear, but she's the being KeA was modeled after, I guess?

I don't remember the details of how the powers worked, but the Demiourgos was a sentient being and the Sept-Terrion of Mirage who was using her(?) powers to help people, but eventually ended up taking her own life. The loss of Demiourgos led the Crois clan down the path of creating KeA as a replacement. The exact details of what happened I don't think are really known, since the only time I remember this being talked about at length is a conversation between Lloyd and Zeit right near the start of the final chapter
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LeonhartFour posted...

I'm pretty sure he joined Osborne between the end of CS2 and the start of CS3

it's pretty strongly implied that he's an Ironblood at various points throughout the game anyway

True, let me revise that to "but he doesn't appear to really be in on the eviler stuff in osborne's plan until the very last scene of chapter 4. at which point he shoves all-in on being the worst."

maybe he was just hiding it but I still think my theory that Cedric is insecure af after Cayenne captured him and stuffed into a mech that was also housing a cursed abomination and has been trying to compensate ever since has merit.

Cedric's literal introduction in CS1 is him praising Osborne's determination in CS1 with Olivier having a *record scratch* moment when he hears that and going "...uh yeah he's certainly determined all right" and seeing as Osborne is the opposing faction leader to Cayenne his already present admiration of Osborne inclines him to hang out with the guy opposed to the guy who kidnapped him. Also Osborne surely played into it all since Cedric is an Awakener so he probably was all too pleased to be able to take advantage of this.

again he's definitely the worst once he happily joins in on the Calvard War plan, okays blowing up the Courageous, and tries to strangle Altina to death but my read on him was still that he was traumatized by CS2 and ended up attaching himself to the worst possible person afterwards! It doesn't absolve him or anything I'm just saying his story is a bit more tragic than "local prince becomes an ass"!

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I mean it's possible that's all true but we don't see any of that or even hear any of that from Cedric himself so I find it difficult to find him likable

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I'm not calling him likable!

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well I don't find him sympathetic either...!

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xp1337 posted...

True, let me revise that to "but he doesn't appear to really be in on the eviler stuff in osborne's plan until the very last scene of chapter 4. at which point he shoves all-in on being the worst."

Nah, considering how he acts throughout the game, it felt like Cedric was in on everything from the start.

One of the annoying things in CS3 (and the other Trails games, honestly) is that they seem to take the line that "if you're loyal to someone when you think they're good, you have to stay loyal to them even after discovering they're bad". Like jeez, guys, you don't have to keep following the dudes committing atrocities/trying to end the world! It's entirely possible to change your mind!
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heck even Vita is still loyal to the Grandmaster despite leaving Ouroboros under protest!

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Osborne really reads Cedric in more than Lechter and Claire? I mean, maybe given that Cedric is ride-or-die apparently and Lechter and Claire are clearly reluctant once they find out what they've signed up for but it would feel weird to me if it happened that way.

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But Osbourne is the coolest dude who wouldn't follow him

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Well, Cedric is more important to his plans than Lechter and Claire due to his status as an Awakener (and being the crown prince, to a lesser extent), and Osborne could probably sense their hesitation.

Plus, Rufus says at one point that Osborne is clearly testing them to see if they can get to the core of his plan.

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LeonhartFour posted...

heck even Vita is still loyal to the Grandmaster despite leaving Ouroboros under protest!

The Grandmaster is a fascinating character tbqh. Back in 3rd they seem legitimately distraught how things went down with Weissmann and blames themself for how it all turned out with all the loss of life and the Anguis basically try to console them with Anguis 5, Vita, and Arianrhod essentially adding, "He was an ass anyway, he had it coming. Not your fault. If anything it's our fault for not giving him an attitude adjustment."

And everyone who appears to have interacted with them are completely loyal even when there are other internal conflicts.

I actually rewatched Star Door 14 the other day and a line they stated caught my attention and had me spinning all kinds of probably nonsense theories: "The bells in the west have rang, and the first pact applies no more. I hearby proclaim the completion of the first phase of the Orpheus Final Plan, the Gospel Plan..." What do they mean by the first pact? The only thing that comes to mind when I hear pact in regards to what happened in SC as a result of Ouroboros is Ragnard saying that with the matter of the Aureole being resolved he's freed from his pact with the Goddess. Could freeing the Holy Beasts somehow be part of the plan? And Crossbell's Holy Beast considering themself free because the original Demiurge vanished be part of the reason they didn't care about grabbing the literally-superior-to-the-original Sept-Terrion of Zero? And they're helping with Great Twilight because hey by a certain definition they "freed" the Holy Beast of Earth at the end there! aaaaaaaa what is this pact.

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