Current Events > In dating terms, when should a transgender person reveal that

(+) Yeah! (+)

viewmaster_pi posted...

Well also because trans people are the ones with the... how do I put this- unconventional gender expression? I shouldn't be obligated to do anything, because with cis people, what you see is what you get.

Well, I suppose with that in mind, if they were forthcoming with their trans status, it would make it easier to find partners who are okay with it. And quicker to weed out the ones who aren't.

viewmaster_pi posted...

Well also because trans people are the ones with the... how do I put this- unconventional gender expression? I shouldn't be obligated to do anything, because with cis people, what you see is what you get.

So all you need from woman is to know she was born with a warm hole to stick it in? Should she be obligated to tell you everything up front so the relationship isn't for naught? Why aren't we worried about cis women being the wrong one?

The only way to know things is to ask. You can never assume people will give you answers to questions you don't ask, even if that person is "unconventional".

No wonder trans people battle with mental health issues though when we're saying they aren't WYSIWYG. They see themselves as men or women. They were just born with an unfortunate condition.

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Esrac posted...

Well, I suppose with that in mind, if they were forthcoming with their trans status, it would make it easier to find partners who are okay with it. And quicker to weed out the ones who aren't.

I think so. It's funny because that's one of the first things I said when I was put up against the wall, but no one was satisfied with it.

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hockeybub89 posted...

So all you need from woman is to know she was born with a warm hole to stick it in?

That's quite a misogynistic light to try and shine on my point of view, wow. But at the most absolutely basic understanding of how physical attraction works, regarding XX+XY, I guess I can't say it's wrong.

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"Random people on the Internet might call me transphobic if I ask someone if they were born with a penis.

If they tell me they were born with a penis and then I decide to walk away, somehow those same people won't call me transphobic."

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You can't just ask girls if they were born with dicks, how socially and romantically braindead is that?

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Shablagoo posted...

Correct me if Im wrong, but it feels like at least part of you wishes we had ways to punish trans people for not wearing an I.D. badge that lets the world know theyre trans.

I really didnt think saying dont date racists was so controversial that youd accuse me of wanting to police thoughts.

You are wrong. No part of wishes for that.

I was being sincere with my question. You delved into a hypothetical that took place entirely in a "would be rapist's" mind. You had something prescriptive for him based on his thoughts, so I was legitimately curious if part of you wishes we could penalize some people with sufficiently awful thoughts.

I didn't mean it as the attack you seemed to take it as.

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viewmaster_pi posted...

That's quite a misogynistic light to try and shine on my point of view, wow. But at the most absolutely basic understanding of how physical attraction works, regarding XX+XY, I guess I can't say it's wrong.

I'm just saying that a relationship hinges on far more than your favorite chromosomes. So shouldn't people demand that potential partners tell then much more upfront than the genitals they were born with? That would be true efficiency in dating. This is why I think people should just ask questions up front if they are so worried about dating and trying to have babies with the wrong one. You can't guarantee answers without asking questions.

Also, if attraction was purely based on chromosomes, then a man could never be "fooled" by a trans person.

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joe40001 posted...

You are wrong. No part of wishes for that.

Well thats good.

I was being sincere with my question.

Same.

You delved into a hypothetical that took place entirely in a "would be rapist's" mind. You had something prescriptive for him based on his thoughts, so I was legitimately curious if part of you wishes we could penalize some people with sufficiently awful thoughts.

I wasnt really prescribing it to him as some sort of penal action, I meant it in the sense that if a friend came to me saying he was troubled by violent fantasies Id suggest that he see a professional.

The same way Id be disturbed if someone told me they wouldnt date a woman whos slept with a black guy, as in the example of that link I posted.

I didn't mean it as the attack you seemed to take it as.

Thanks, same here.

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viewmaster_pi posted...

You can't just ask girls if they were born with dicks, how socially and romantically braindead is that?

It's also braindead to expect people to always be comfortable spilling personal things the moment a stranger talks to them. Not every trans person is of the same personality, nor do they have the same experience with life. They're just like the rest of us.

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hockeybub89 posted...

It's also braindead to expect people to always be comfortable spilling personal things the moment a stranger talks to them.

I'm not saying they ALL should- I'm saying THIS particular subject is important enough that it should be disclosed early.

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Shablagoo posted...

I wasnt really prescribing it to him as some sort of penal action, I meant it in the sense that if a friend came to me saying he was troubled by violent fantasies Id suggest that he see a professional.

In your question about the "would be rapist" you didn't suggest the person was troubled by it. Or reaching out for help. So the "could do with some therapy" seemed prescriptive and not something they chose. IMO this is a different scenario than what you described with a friend here.

Shablagoo posted...

The same way Id be disturbed if someone told me they wouldnt date a woman whos slept with a black guy, as in the example of that link I posted.

In this part you are changing it from them being disturbed and seeking help to you being disturbed. Sincere question, if somebody had a policy where they wouldnt date a woman whos slept with a black guy, what would be appropriate to happen to such a person with such a policy?

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viewmaster_pi posted...

I'm not saying they ALL should- I'm saying THIS particular subject is important enough that it should be disclosed early.

And the only way to guarantee an answer at a specific time is to ask. Again, trans people are all unique just like us. Not everyone is comfortable being that up front. There isn't a way to dictate that outside of literally putting them on a list.

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hockeybub89 posted...

And the only way to guarantee an answer at a specific time is to ask. Again, trans people are all unique just like us. Not everyone is comfortable being that up front. There isn't a way to dictate that outside of literally putting them on a list.

I understand your point, but am I supposed to ask every girl I meet if she has HPV, too? There are a few certain things that the other person has an obligation to disclose before going too far. I think being trans is one of those things.

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How's this: If you don't want to date a transgender woman, tell that to every woman you meet at the first sign of either of you expressing interest in the other. Most transgender women won't want to pursue the relationship after that.

Of course, you'll also alienate some cisgender women, and you don't want that, do you? Geez, being open with people sure is tough...

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Imagine if a girl walked up to you-
"Hi, I'm-"
"Hold it, I don't want to date a transgender girl, sorry."

That's a good way to offend literally everyone you meet.

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That's the burden of having such a strict preference. You just wanna shove that burden onto transgender women so you don't have to deal with it. Such cowardice...

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It's not a strict preference, in fact, it's possibly the most commonly-shared preference among cis men.

Rather, it's strict, rigidly defined, but not profound in any way.

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If it's so common, why are you so afraid to tell people?

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Eviora posted...

If it's so common, why are you so afraid to tell people?

Because cis women would obviously be offended, I can't believe I'm getting into this same bad-faith strawman, yet again.

Instead of saying this is my burden as a cis man, maybe it's actually a romantic burden for the trans person? You know, the one with the decidedly nontraditional gender expression that isn't compatible with like 99% of the cis population?

I have no obligations, nothing to hide, nothing that I've changed, no certain way I once was, but am no longer. The burden in these situations simply does not fall onto me. I am not the one who's different.

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joe40001 posted...

In this part you are changing it from them being disturbed and seeking help to you being disturbed. Sincere question, if somebody had a policy where they wouldnt date a woman whos slept with a black guy, what would be appropriate to happen to such a person with such a policy?

It would be appropriate for people to not date racists, I think thats pretty obvious.

Im sure there are plenty of people who still would/do, though. And theres nothing against the law about them doing so nor should there be.

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Eviora posted...

That's the burden of having such a strict preference. You just wanna shove that burden onto transgender women so you don't have to deal with it. Such cowardice...

THANK you!!!

viewmaster_pi posted...

Because cis women would obviously be offended

https://youtu.be/DrHkLv2414o

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You're assuming all cisgender men share your aversion. That isn't the case. Sooorry, but you can't weasel your way out of responsibility just by crying "Bad faith!" over and over.

If anything at all is a dealbreaker for a relationship with you, it's on you to be clear about that. For example, I'm an atheist and wouldn't want to date someone who thinks I deserve to burn forever just because I don't believe in god, so it would be on me to make sure I'm not dating someone who believes that. Know what? I don't wanna date anyone who sucks at math, either. Does that mean everyone who has failed a math course should be required to tell every potential romantic interest on sight? Of course not!

If we had to list all the possible turn-off for all our possible partners, we'd just be spouting autobiographies at each other all the time. That's silly. You are the one responsible for making sure you vet your partners for traits you deem undesirable. You already understand that in most cases, but you're trying to special plead against transgender people because they're the minority. That's naked bigotry. Own your prejudices.

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There's nothing funny about that. If you think cis women would take kindly to being questioned over whether or not they were born women, you're either delusional or just really disingenuous. This is common sense social tact, here.

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viewmaster_pi posted...

There's nothing funny about that. If you think cis women would take kindly to being questioned over whether or not they were born women, you're either delusional or just really disengenuous. This is common sense social tact, here.

Im laughing at your hypocrisy. Of course they would be offended, just as theyd be offended by your ridiculous ranting in this topic trying to force trans people to conform to your mandates.

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Eviora posted...

You're assuming all cisgender men share your aversion.

No, just about 99% of them, like I said. And I don't have anything to weasel out of. Or if I do, I guess so does 99% of the male population, and at that point, I'd say that's your personal hangup.

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viewmaster_pi posted...

No, just about 99% of them, like I said. And I don't have anything to weasel out of. Or if I do, I guess so does 99% of the male population, and at that point, I'd say that's your personal hangup.

You saying that 99% of the male population only want to date CIS women?

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Shablagoo posted...

Im laughing at your hypocrisy. Of course they would be offended, just as theyd be offended by your ridiculous ranting in this topic trying to force trans people to conform to your mandates.

There's no hypocrisy. Some things are bigger deals than others. It's all common opinion, you just don't like it.

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Show us the stats. You're pulling numbers out of your ass.

Also, if I'm the one with the personal hangup, why is it you who is demanding that people you're not interested in behave a certain way on an internet forum?

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Foppe posted...

You saying that 99% of the male population only want to date CIS women?

99% of the cis, straight, male population, probably

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viewmaster_pi posted...

99% of the cis, straight, male population, probably

And your definition of straight here is that they would be homosexuals if they wanted to be with a transwoman?

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viewmaster_pi posted...

There's no hypocrisy. Some things are bigger deals than others. It's all common opinion, you just don't like it.

You cant say theres no hypocrisy until you start telling every woman you date upfront that you wont date a trans woman.

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Eviora posted...

Show us the stats. You're pulling numbers out of your ass.

Also, if I'm the one with the personal hangup, why is it you who is demanding that people you're not interested in behave a certain way on an internet forum?

It's not just me, are you just gonna ignore everyone else who said the same thing?

And while I don't have stats, I'm pretty confident in about 90-something%

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Foppe posted...

And your definition of straight here is that they would be homosexuals if they wanted to be with a transwoman?

No, you're putting that in my mouth. I'm saying clearly and concisely that I believe 90-something% of straight cis males would not be comfortable being romantically involved with a trans female, for their own reasons. Or simply no reason but they just don't like it.

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Shablagoo posted...

You cant say theres no hypocrisy until you start telling every woman you date upfront that you wont date a trans woman.

not my obligation, blame society and traditional male/female courting if you think it's hypocritical. It's not like I decided it

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Clearly it's not just you. So what? No one is required to conduct themselves based on vague notions like "common opinion." Your claim that some things are bigger deals than others is purely subjective. You have no rational basis on which to make your argument, which is why you keep resorting to perceived statistics you don't have. You're going to have to face reality. It's not anyone else's responsibility to filter the girls you approach based on your biases. Do it yourself.

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viewmaster_pi posted...

No, you're putting that in my mouth. I'm saying clearly and concisely that I believe 90-something% of straight cis males would not be comfortable being romantically involved with a trans female, for their own reasons. Or simply no reason but they just don't like it.

So going from a fact of 99% to you believing that 90+%, keep moving that goalpost.

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not my obligation, blame society and traditional male/female courting if you think it's hypocritical. It's not like I decided it

But if 99% of women would be offended and turned away if you told them you wouldnt date a trans woman, by your own logic you do have an obligation.

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Once there is formally a date. Of course some relationships come together differently without that, so I dunno then. You can usually tell when someone is into you so should probably mention it then if its a friendship that seems to be turning into more.

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Yeah, I'm not gonna budge on this. The burden of being forthright falls before the burden of being inquisitive. It'd be different if it was something super weird that I was hung up on, but no, it's a very common preference, and I think trans people that put in particular effort to appear as their identified gender have a responsibility to make that known, so the other person doesn't have to find out with a potentially unwelcome surprise later. The end.

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You've now abandoned all reasoning and just decided not to change your mind no matter what. That's as good a concession as any. You lose the argument. =p

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Eviora posted...

You've now abandoned all reasoning and just decided not to change your mind no matter what. That's as good a concession as any. You lose the argument. =p

Lmao yup


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Just because you refuse to humor any opinion that goes against your "side" doesn't mean I'm the one who abandoned logic.

There's no winning or losing. I don't have to convince you. You don't have to believe me. What is has been, and what has been will persist.

e: my bad, reasoning*

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There's reason and opinion. You've devolved into a blubbering mess clinging to the latter. You lose. It's fine if you don't accept it. After all, you just told us you're going to effectively stick your fingers in your ears and scream "LA LA LA" until the opposition goes away. Why would we expect you to acknowledge your defeat? xD

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So dramatic. Blubbering mess? Please.

I'm not sticking my fingers in my ears, I'm just reaching that natural point where I don't want to argue in circles anymore. It's not like I'm making up these rules. It's just the way of things. And these ways will always be. I'm just explaining it.

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viewmaster_pi posted...

Yeah, I'm not gonna budge on this.

Sure sign of someone who is not worth the time spent ITT trying to convince to change his views:

The burden of being forthright falls before the burden of being inquisitive. It'd be different if it was something super weird that I was hung up on, but no, it's a very common preference, and I think trans people that put in particular effort to appear as their identified gender have a responsibility to make that known, so the other person doesn't have to find out with a potentially unwelcome surprise later.

But as youve pointed out yourself ITT, women would be turned away from you the same way you are uninterested in trans woman. So you have to live up to your own demands of trans people in your own life if you expect any of us to take what youre saying seriously. From now on, make women you date aware that you are against dating trans people ASAP, lest they have to find out that potentially unwelcoming surprise later on, like you said.

The end.

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I don't think you understand what I mean when I say women wouldn't take it well. It's not that they would be turned away because I won't date trans women (some might, and that's fine), but rather, I'm assuming cis women would be offended that I conjectured they could be trans. You can't just say that to people.

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Imagine a world where you're capable of having a nuanced discussion with women and telling them your stance in a way that doesn't imply you think they're trans.

If you can't imagine that world, I think transgender women are the least of your problems.

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If you are in the 1% its probably best to make it know as the transgendered person. At what point I can't say. It's probably not black and white. But much like say, vegans, it's probably best to take the initiative to inform people before someone puts a plate of BBQ in front of you when you go somewhere to eat.

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You're just making up your own angles at this point. That wouldn't realistically happen with the first thing you say to a girl, nor is it a subject anyone would want to get into when you're getting to know each other.

It's worth mentioning that I'm not even going to be in a position where I think girls need to tell me if they're trans or not. Most people won't be. It's just the principal of it.

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