Board 8 > Just replayed case 4-3.... *Apollo Justice spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wow, what a terrible case. (edit: it's worse than I remember it being) But hey, that makes all cases replayed now (out of order) for the first time since 2008! 4-1 > 4-2 > 4-4 >>>> 4-3.

The one cool thing about the case was the idea of having events follow to lyrics to fake the killer's alibi. Other than that, it's hard to find any redeeming qualities. Machi is a crap defendant. Lamiroir spends way too much time on the stand, and is ridiculously stubborn. Daryan is an extremely unlikeable character, too. Why did no one discover the firecrackers, and why did Phoenix have them? Why did nobody find the switches on day 1? Why did nobody verify the time of death (the autopsy report omits it)? For crying out, he died of blood loss, which means it would have taken several minutes for LeTouse to die. Then there's the fact that Machi couldn't have possibly shot that 45-caliber gun.....

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I'm on this case right now in my replay of the series. I can't imagine it being worse than 4-2, which is complete shit until the final trial day, or 3-3, which I've already gone on at length about my grievances with.

4 is just not a good game in general though. Thank God for Klavier.

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Every time I replay 4-3 I trick myself into thinking it's not so bad for the first 30 minutes or so

On the plus side, it does introduce Valant...!

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The worst part is having to watch that FMV multiple times, especially on the second trial day.

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Haste_2 posted...

Why did nobody verify the time of death

Well there's not much need for that when he dies in front of you. And then, IIRC, Apollo decides to leave the body unsupervised after he was specifically asked to stand guard, allowing for it to be moved.

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just a terrible case. putting 3-3 on its level is pure blasphemy. 3-3 is below average, but at least it isn't painful to play.

I like the showdown with Daryan and investigating Klavier's office is pretty cool, but yeah, 4-3's terrible logic astounds me every time I play it. Literally the only part of the crime that was possible for Machi was escaping through the air ducts. Apollo's inability to mention this at all always baffles me.

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4-3 is definitely a basement dweller of a case.
colliding posted...

just a terrible case. putting 3-3 on its level is pure blasphemy. 3-3 is below average, but at least it isn't painful to play.

3-3 is worse!

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3-3 is a good case

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LeonhartFour posted...

3-3 is a good case

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3-3 I can't remember at all

But AJ is just a bad game all around
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3-3 is the only case I have ever actually gotten angry at.It has ugly, hard-to-understand characters. An absurd set-up with the phony Phoenix that a two year old could have seen through. Errand-running at its worst. A whole bunch of wasted time going through stupid shit like the mirror, which was just completely dumb on so many levels. Getting pelted by bird seed. Penalties for pressing. Gumshoe, usually a great character, at an all-time low. It's a dumpster fire of a case whose only redeeming qualities are Viola and the pretty great way Phoenix traps Tigre. And I guess the admittedly catchy Tres Bien theme. But those aren't enough to save it.

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I mean, the mirror thing takes like 15 minutes.

3-3's cast is underrated (Kudo secretly really good), and the case strives to screw with your perceptions from the very beginning with the intro and doesn't let up until the very end.

also top tier locations with Tres Bien, Vitamin Square, Tender Lender, and Blue Screens, Inc. all being incredibly memorable and unique

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3-3 is a great case. Not top tier or anything like that, but it's on the higher end of the filler cases.

4-3 is absolute trash. I struggle to decide which is the worst case ever between that and 2-3.

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you can't quote quotes anymore but

LeonhartFour posted...

3-3 is a good case

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4-3 isn't as bad as people say it is, IMO. sure, it's not one of the greats, but all the inconsistencies brought up in the case and the leaps of logic we need to do to try and unwrap it are the whole point of it. The case happens in the midst of the "Dark Age of the Law" where, if there isn't incontrovertible evidence that (in this case) Machi didn't do it, then Machi did it. What? He's just a kid and would've dislocated his entire arm if he used that gun? Horseradish! We have proof linking him with the weapon and the victim, as well as a motive! It's a done deal!

I think the way the writers wanted us to see 4-3 was not in a vacuum, but more within the AJ story as a whole, showing how the current system was deeply flawed and a new jurist system was necessary. Of course, I'm not going to deny the case itself suffered in order to drive that narrative, but looking at it that way, I can appreciate it better.

Of course, they went nowhere with the jurist system, so...

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Ninkobra posted...

The case happens in the midst of the "Dark Age of the Law" where, if there isn't incontrovertible evidence that (in this case) Machi didn't do it, then Machi did it.

I mean, the whole series is full of this stuff. In 1-3, Powers is proven innocent on Day 2 but is still incarcerated until the real killer is proven guilty.

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Meow1000 posted...

4-3 is definitely a basement dweller of a case.

3-3 is worse!

If youse keeps saying things like that, youse gonna find your face rearranged! GWROAAAAAARRRRRRR!!!

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scaler24 posted...

I struggle to decide which is the worst case ever between that and 2-3.

2-3 isn't the trash case some people claim it to be. It's not good, but it's mostly tolerable. Trilo is pretty funny and Moe is genuinely likable. It has it's problems for sure, like penalties for pressing (although some of them do make me chuckle and I'll occasionally provoke Moe in purpose) and the villain is pretty weak, and Regina is a shit character.

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2-3 is much better on replays when you can skip through the text. It's still not great because seriously **** Regina

I find 3-3 funny so I like it. If you don't see the humor in it, then yeah, you're probably not going to have a good time

4-3 makes no logical sense, has terrible characters, and is a chore. points for Valant I guess but it's still bottom tier

Underleveled posted...

Trilo is pretty funny

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. I think he and Moe make the first half of the case absolutely unbearable. The second half is only decent because Trilo is not there at all and Moe actually becomes a good character.

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2-3 is actually decent, but I find Trilo hilarious, so there's that. Moe is the biggest problem with day 1, but he turns things around on day 2.

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colliding posted...

It's still not great because seriously **** Regina

I think Regina may be the worst female character in the series. Most of my bottom tier are the pompous asses (Wellington, Stickler) and annoying eyesores (Jean, Sal), but I think Regina is the only female I'd throw into that group. Granted I still need to replay the rest of 4, AAI, and some of 5 as well as AAI2, the rest of 5, 6, and DGS for the first time.

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Russell somehow keeps getting a free pass for all the shit that happened in 2-3, even though it was all his fault. If he had given Regina a proper education or told her about the consequences of her actions, nothing would have happened.

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scaler24 posted...

Russell somehow keeps getting a free pass for all the shit that happened in 2-3, even though it was all his fault. If he had given Regina a proper education or told her about the consequences of her actions, nothing would have happened.

Well, if the peppered scarf had actually made Bat sneeze like it was supposed to and then he just took it off, nothing would've happened either. Blaming Russell for everything is kind of a stretch IMO.

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Underleveled posted...

I mean, the whole series is full of this stuff. In 1-3, Powers is proven innocent on Day 2 but is still incarcerated until the real killer is proven guilty.

eh that's just a limitation of the earlier games, I think. Later on sometimes they'll acknowledge that the defendant is definitely not guilty but Phoenix won't rest until the real killer and thus the truth is found

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hombad46 posted...

Well, if the peppered scarf had actually made Bat sneeze like it was supposed to and then he just took it off, nothing would've happened either. Blaming Russell for everything is kind of a stretch IMO.

Even if Bat still had fallen victim to the scarf accident, properly telling Regina that what she did was wrong and that she had to try to make up for it would have resulted in Acro not turning into a killer.

Instead, Russell decided to sweep the incident under the rug, keep Regina in the dark and act as if it never happened, so Acro's hatred kept growing for months.

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2-3, 3-3, and 4-3 are all good cases

Yeah, Russell sheltering Regina beyond reason was an indirect cause for everything that happened, and the game never really calls him out on it. I like Regina's arc for that reason though because it's not like she was trying to be a bad person or hurt people. Her innocent insensitivity just became unbearable for Acro. And I like that she did finally start coming to her senses by the end.

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It makes it all the more fitting that Acro killed Russell by accident instead of Regina....

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