Current Events > Is pirating video games "stealing"?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've seen this debate before on CE
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This a new and exciting topic to discuss. I wonder how it will go? hmmm
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whitelytning posted...

This a new and exciting topic to discuss. I wonder how it will go? hmmm

was there a poll?
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Depends on context, I think. If it's an old-ass game that you otherwise can't play for whatever variety of reasons, it isn't. If it's a newer game you can easily obtain and you're sure you'd like it but you pirate it anyway, it is stealing.

Of course it is. If everyone pirated, people would just stop making games. What would be the point. Developers can't go on tour and shit like music artists. I guess they can sell merch, but that only goes so far

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Yes. The presence or lack of a physical item is irrelevant.

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Yes it is theft.

Everything else is semantics.

The gray area for me is when it's an decades old game that can ONLY be played via pirating.

I mean that's like stealing 1 piece of grass from an overgrown abandoned field. I find it hard to be mad about it.

Any pirating of any game you can still pay for and play legally , that's theft and fucked up. Anyone who does it is a big jerkface who probably likes The Star Wars prequels
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Yeah. It might not have the same effect as they aren't truly "losing" anything, but you are still taking something that doesn't belong to you.

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SailorGoon posted...

Yeah. It might not have the same effect as they aren't truly "losing" anything, but you are still taking something that doesn't belong to you.

They absolutely are. The concept is called opportunity cost.

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If you take a cartridge or disc without paying for it, yes. Thats theft.

If you download a ROM of a game currently on sale (including old games) on modern consoles with no intention of paying for it on those modern consoles, then that is also theft.

If it is an impossibility to pay the owner of an old game that is not available on modern consoles to buy, only second hand - then I dont think of it as theft.

The owner has to lose a sale for it to be theft. Super Mario Galaxy can be downloaded on Wii U - pirating that would be theft. Mario Kart Wii is only available second hand; pirating that would not deny Nintendo a sale so no money is lost.
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Bass_X0 posted...

If it is an impossibility to pay the owner of an old game that is not available on modern consoles to buy, only second hand - then I dont think of it as theft.

No, it still is, it's just one the copyright holder clearly doesn't care about.

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DevsBro posted...

Bass_X0 posted...

If it is an impossibility to pay the owner of an old game that is not available on modern consoles to buy, only second hand - then I dont think of it as theft.

No, it still is, it's just one the copyright holder clearly doesn't care about.

Intellectual property is intangible if there is no money to be made from it. A game no longer on sale in any capacity can not make the owner any more money until its rereleased.
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Bass_X0 posted...

A game no longer on sale in any capacity can not make the owner any more money until its rereleased.

that's the entire point tho
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Nope. I don't consider any forms of piracy to be stealing or immoral at all.

DevsBro posted...

They absolutely are. The concept is called opportunity cost.

If it's a scenario where someone wasn't going to buy the game regardless then they really aren't losing anything. It's very much the 3rd option. Regardless of what you call it, it's still wrong to do. And semantics aside, I still consider it theft; loss or no loss you're taking something that doesn't belong to you.

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UnfairRepresent posted...

Bass_X0 posted...

A game no longer on sale in any capacity can not make the owner any more money until its rereleased.

that's the entire point tho

When it is rereleased as currently on sale then it would be theft. Until then, it cannot be paid for and so is not theft.

If you download a ROM of an old game today that cannot be paid for then the game is rereleased tomorrow, it becomes theft if you play that ROM.
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No its not really theft since it doesnt involve taking anything from anyone.
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Yes, even if it is no longer physically or digitally available for legal purchase.
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Nobody has physically lost anything as a result of piracy.

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Leanaunfurled posted...

Depends on context, I think. If it's an old-ass game that you otherwise can't play for whatever variety of reasons, it isn't. If it's a newer game you can easily obtain and you're sure you'd like it but you pirate it anyway, it is stealing.

This. If a game is no longer sold or supported and has little-to-no hope of being re-released, then I would consider it okay to download a ROM of it and wouldn't consider it theft. But if a game is realistically available by legal means and you still pirate it, then it's theft.

I say the same thing about pirating anime. If an anime isn't sold physically anymore and isn't on any legal streaming services, or if it was never licensed in your country to begin with so there never was a legal option to acquire it, then I'd consider it acceptable to pirate it. But if it's on a legal streaming site, you should watch it there.
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Rika_Furude posted...

No its not really theft since it doesnt involve taking anything from anyone.

Does the game belong to you?
No

Regardless of whether or not someone is losing anything, you are taking something that does not belong to you.

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Doesn't matter if you call it theft or stealing. It's still withholding the creators their due any way you slice it.

p-m posted...

Nope. I don't consider any forms of piracy to be stealing or immoral at all.

That's because you're a bad person.

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malenz posted...

Doesn't matter if you call it theft or stealing. It's still withholding the creators their due any way you slice it.

I agree with you if the game is still being sold through normal means. But if an old game isn't being sold anymore outside of extremely rare second-hand copies, how is it "withholding the creators their due" if there's absolutely no way for you to buy the game in a way that gives the creators the money? Whether you get lucky and buy the game at a pawn shop or pirate the game, the creators get nothing either way.
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Well yeah of course I agree with you there.

https://www.destructoid.com/lionhead-used-games-worse-than-piracy-201343.phtml

using adblock is also stealing btw

so is walking into a shop and leaving without buying anything.

theft of potential revenue.

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Would you buy a used car??

SailorGoon posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

No its not really theft since it doesnt involve taking anything from anyone.

Does the game belong to you?
No

Regardless of whether or not someone is losing anything, you are taking something that does not belong to you.

"Losing something" is a critical component of "taking something"
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Rika_Furude posted...

"Losing something" is a critical component of "taking something"

Not really. Look at grave robbers. Those dead people don't give a shit if they're losing anything. The point is that what they take doesn't belong to them. Tangibility is irrelevant. You now possess something that does not belong to you.

It's like @HellRatUFO says, own up to it. The more mental backflips you try to crank out to justify it, the more guilty you look.

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No, you took nothing, you copied someone elses stuff for personal use.
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SailorGoon posted...

It's like @HellRatUFO says, own up to it. The more mental backflips you try to crank out to justify it, the more guilty you look.

thats what i keep telling people who use adblock

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ModLogic posted...

thats what i keep telling people who use adblock

Fair enough. I'll own up to it.

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VTBM posted...

Yes, even if it is no longer physically or digitally available for legal purchase.

But if the company made it impossible to make money on their old games, is it wrong?
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Bass_X0 posted...

But if the company made it impossible to make money on their old games, is it wrong?

Ultimately yes, you don't have a god given right to have access to everything ever made. The creator maybe no longer feels the work is representative of their abilities and no longer wishes for it to be available.

EvenSpoonier posted...

That's because you're a bad person.

I can almost guarantee from your response that you support political policies that actively result in deaths or physical harm to others. Yet you feel free to call me a bad person for thinking art should be freely distributed. Everyone involved has already been paid for their work, no one deserves to make profit.

Buying stuff used is worse morally than piracy btw.

DuranOfForcena posted...

lol what the fuck

The majority of people do. I don't, so I can live guilt free. I'm just accusing him of being right wing anyway.

Being anti piracy in general, less so with video games but particularly with films and books, is essentially being against the working class and economically inactive expanding their minds as what's available on basic tv and streaming services all fits a certain status quo keeping agenda. Art should be freely distributed to all and the governments of every damn country in the world should stop killing their own citizens.

You are taking a product without paying. Its not being gifted, you didnt receive it as some kind of reward nor did you earn it.

Duh

Theft is bluntly defined as taking something that doesn't belong to you without permission. Yes piracy is theft.

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Its always the absolute scum of CE that still try to argue its not theft is nothing is physically lost in 2019.

This is why stereotypes exist.

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Theft is bluntly defined as taking something that doesn't belong to you without permission. Yes piracy is theft.

But but but its art, its fair that I want to be a douche

Tyranthraxus posted...

Theft is bluntly defined as taking something that doesn't belong to you without permission. Yes piracy is theft.

But you're not taking anything

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Tyranthraxus posted...

Theft is bluntly defined as taking something that doesn't belong to you without permission. Yes piracy is theft.

Why doesn't it belong to me? Legality be damned.

Yes, pirating is stealing.

I suppose how one feels about it will depend a lot on whether or not they accept the concept of intellectual property. I know a few people who do not believe an artist owns the art they create, regardless if there is any intent to sell it. They think the original music you play, the painting you create, or the book you write belongs to the rest of the world when it's made, even if you only show it to your friends. I've never told them to fuck off, but I did tell them politely that it's stealing and that's what we have copyrights and trademarks for, Lol.
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ModLogic posted...

so is walking into a shop and leaving without buying anything.

theft of potential revenue.

Lol no.

SailorGoon posted...

Not really. Look at grave robbers. Those dead people don't give a s*** if they're losing anything. The point is that what they take doesn't belong to them. Tangibility is irrelevant. You now possess something that does not belong to you.

But something like digging through someone's trash isn't theft.
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no technically, but that doesn't make it legal

Leanaunfurled posted...

Depends on context, I think. If it's an old-ass game that you otherwise can't play for whatever variety of reasons, it isn't. If it's a newer game you can easily obtain and you're sure you'd like it but you pirate it anyway, it is stealing.

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