Current Events > Is Diane from Bojack Horseman a bad person? *Unmarked spoilers through Season 4*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Diane seems like a very heavy example of modern millennial depression. Very heavy on the self awareness, very much wanting to be a good person, but very impulsive and occasionally irrational. Like Bojack, she does some really awful things, but rather than victimizing innocent people like Bojack does, hers are usually very selfish attacks against people close to her. She's typically remorseful(at least eventually) but that doesn't fully excuse the selfishness of her actions. But despite that, she's also extremely forgiving of the faults of others in her life, and does her best to make the world a better place.

Is she a good or bad person?

She's a bad person, and the show doesn't try to pretend otherwise.
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DarkChozoGhost posted...

She's a bad person, and the show doesn't try to pretend otherwise.

She's not intentionally one, but yeah, people point out she's pretty awful for most of the things she says and does that hurt others. Sure, sometimes it's just to double down on that "no good deed goes unpunished" thing the series is filled with, but still.

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Everyone on that show is a bad person but Diane, Princess Carolyn, and Todd are least bad

CruelBuffalo posted...

Everyone on that show is a bad person but Diane, Princess Carolyn, and Todd are least bad

Ehhhh I wouldn't call Mr PB, PC, or Todd bad people. Honestly, most people on the show aren't that bad. Even the recurring characters you'd expect to be bad, like Turtletaub, aren't abusive.

it depends what you mean by "good" or "bad"

I tend to think of goodness as a process of doing good things rather than a state of being

I think Diane tries to do good things, and is ultimately sympathetic, even when she fails to do so
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like most other characters on the show, shes is a depressed & unfulfilled person trapped in a loop of bad decisions and self loathing, but she is slowly trying to get out. to describe a character as "good" or "bad" is kind of doing the show a disservice IMO, this isnt Star Wars or something
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They mean well when they're not knowingly fucking up. So they're "ehh".

Todd is a cherub, though.

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Highwind07 posted...

I can't remember that far back but wait until you see her relationship with Mr Peanutbutter in later seasons which became a really bad trainwreck.

Yup, S4 ends with their divorce. In her defense, most of her badness for him stems from her repressing a lot of frustration and living in a genuinely toxic relationship and never really addressing it. She tries so hard to be a good person, but she snaps and does some awful things, while PB enables her bad behavior and is genuinely loving, but careless.

OctilIery posted...

Ehhhh I wouldn't call Mr PB, PC, or Todd bad people. Honestly, most people on the show aren't that bad. Even the recurring characters you'd expect to be bad, like Turtletaub, aren't abusive.

mr. pb is one of the worst on the show .

his non-listening to people is brought up multiple times on the show. Just because he has a positive attitude doesnt make him a good person

ill let you catch up before dropping more dialogue lol

CruelBuffalo posted...

mr. pb is one of the worst on the show

seems like a bit of a stretch to me considering the competition

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Balrog0 posted...

seems like a bit of a stretch to me considering the competition

REST OF SHOW SPOILERS

Kinda hard to be worse than cheating on your partner multiple times lol like Mr. PB did.

Highwind07 posted...

Oh yea something like he built a library for her but she still wasn't happy and then there was that whole thing with the new apartment that she was in. I need to rewatch that season.

he built a beauty and the beast library along with drawing faces on some of the furniture lol.

they both had valid points in being mad at each other.

i totally forgot that was after he ran for office right despite not knowing anything and fracked under their house?

Romulox28 posted...

like most other characters on the show, shes is a depressed & unfulfilled person trapped in a loop of bad decisions and self loathing, but she is slowly trying to get out. to describe a character as "good" or "bad" is kind of doing the show a disservice IMO, this isnt Star Wars or something

I know this is a tangent, and I get what you're going for, but I also think you're doing a disservice to Star Wars' characters by framing them this way
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CruelBuffalo posted...

REST OF SHOW SPOILERS

Kinda hard to be worse than cheating on your partner multiple times lol like Mr. PB did.

I mean bojack is kind of responsible for someone dying...

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Highwind07 posted...

I remember that the episode where his house sank was in the same season as he was trying to run for office and built that bridge to Hawaii off the top of my head.

lol yeah, it sank because he fracked under the house and they kept having angry sex

Yes
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OctilIery posted...

CruelBuffalo posted...

Everyone on that show is a bad person but Diane, Princess Carolyn, and Todd are least bad

Ehhhh I wouldn't call Mr PB, PC, or Todd bad people. Honestly, most people on the show aren't that bad. Even the recurring characters you'd expect to be bad, like Turtletaub, aren't abusive.

The newest season may change your opinion of Turtletaub a bit. All I'll say is that both him and Princess Carolyn can be a bit exploitative at times. It's just played off for laughs usually.

PC is ultimately one of the nicest characters on the show, but all of the main characters are in the wrong at least occasionally.
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Balrog0 posted...

I mean bojack is kind of responsible for someone dying...

and the boat

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gunplagirl posted...

and the boat

no one is worse than bojack sorry if I implied that haha; also didnt see your post Balrog

CruelBuffalo posted...

OctilIery posted...

Ehhhh I wouldn't call Mr PB, PC, or Todd bad people. Honestly, most people on the show aren't that bad. Even the recurring characters you'd expect to be bad, like Turtletaub, aren't abusive.

mr. pb is one of the worst on the show .

his non-listening to people is brought up multiple times on the show. Just because he has a positive attitude doesnt make him a good person

The reason I give PB a pass is he isn't directly ignoring or dismissing people like Bojack does, he just isn't smart. PB wants and tries to make people happy, but gets easily overexcited and doesn't listen.

CruelBuffalo posted...

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]



he built a beauty and the beast library along with drawing faces on some of the furniture lol.

they both had valid points in being mad at each other.

i totally forgot that was after he ran for office right despite not knowing anything and fracked under their house?

Yup. The Library reveal was the end of S4, and directly led to the divorce.

GeneralKenobi85 posted...

All I'll say is that both him and Princess Carolyn can be a bit exploitative at times.

The only really shitty thing PC does I can remember is sign Bojack's name and then guilt him into doing Philbert, but given her circumstances I'm a little bit more forgiving. I'll admit, though, that her continuing to guild Bojack when he talks about how the show is really hurting him while he's legitimately trying, and for once succeeding, to be better was very selfish.

Nobody's good and nobody's bad. PC can be pretty exploitive even if she "looks" like one of the nicer people here. Todd is just your typical likable idiot, he is probably one of the most "good" characters

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Is there anyone on the show who isn't, with the possible exception of Vincent Adultman?

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EvenSpoonier posted...

Is there anyone on the show who isn't, with the possible exception of Vincent Adultman?

Even so I feel like he is not really telling us who he is.

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I've got the perception that the show plays up everyone as basically jerks that try to keep a hat on their behavior as best as possible.

It's very cynical.

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epik_fail1 posted...

EvenSpoonier posted...

Is there anyone on the show who isn't, with the possible exception of Vincent Adultman?

Even so I feel like he is not really telling us who he is.

Honestly, knowing that show, it's entirely possible he was just a weird adult.

OctilIery posted...

Honestly, knowing that show, it's entirely possible he was just a weird adult.

The plot thickens

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I am indifferent towards her but my girlfriend absolutely despises her and I understand where she's coming from.
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But to answer TC about Diane...

Diane is supposed to be a girl that want to change the world. After hanging out with Bojack, she realised that she is way more like him than she wants. She knows she is not the person she wants to be.

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epik_fail1 posted...

But to answer TC about Diane...

Diane is supposed to be a girl that want to change the world. After hanging out with Bojack, she realised that she is way more like him than she wants. She knows she is not the person she wants to be.

I think it's more that Diane really wants to be a good person and change the world for the better, but she lacks the confidence and support structure to act on those impulses. Just look at how quickly she falls apart when goes to report on Sebastian: she lasts all of a day before breaking down(Sebastian himself is interesting: he's a self-absorbed twit, but the show seems to be suggesting that that's what enables him to do aid work in an active war zone at all). She wants to be this great investigative journalist, but encounters the reality that journalistic outlets don't want to do that, because it's expensive and disruptive and shallow click-bait is more profitable.
And, of course, her relationship with Mr. Peanutbutter is (mutually) toxic.

I do identify with Diane a bit, because her internal monologue is familiar to me(Am I a good person? Shouldn't I be happier? Can I be happy? Does being happy in this garbage world make me a bad person?)

ElatedVenusaur posted...

epik_fail1 posted...

But to answer TC about Diane...

Diane is supposed to be a girl that want to change the world. After hanging out with Bojack, she realised that she is way more like him than she wants. She knows she is not the person she wants to be.

I think it's more that Diane really wants to be a good person and change the world for the better, but she lacks the confidence and support structure to act on those impulses. Just look at how quickly she falls apart when goes to report on Sebastian: she lasts all of a day before breaking down(Sebastian himself is interesting: he's a self-absorbed twit, but the show seems to be suggesting that that's what enables him to do aid work in an active war zone at all). She wants to be this great investigative journalist, but encounters the reality that journalistic outlets don't want to do that, because it's expensive and disruptive and shallow click-bait is more profitable.
And, of course, her relationship with Mr. Peanutbutter is (mutually) toxic.

I do identify with Diane a bit, because her internal monologue is familiar to me(Am I a good person? Shouldn't I be happier? Can I be happy? Does being happy in this garbage world make me a bad person?)

It's also that she has seriously bad issues with repression. She does not deal with her emotions, she does not talk about them, she does not face them. Going to Cordova should've been an amazing opportunity, but instead of resolving things at home first she used it as a way to hide from her marriage. Admittedly stems from a family dynamic that refuses to acknowledge any problems, or to take her seriously when she does.

One of my favorite episodes is when she goes to visit PB's brother, and every time they talk while PB is gone the brother is much darker and more somber. Same kind of dynamic done in a different way, but she totally fails to see how it relates to her.

Good people don't exist in the world of Bojack Horseman. Some people are just not as bad as others.
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creativerealms posted...

Good people don't exist in the world of Bojack Horseman. Some people are just not as bad as others.

I maintain that Todd is a good person. He has his own issues that he's figuring out about himself, but he's a good friend, very nice, and sets boundaries when he needs to. PC too, though she does a couple awful things.

OctilIery posted...

It's also that she has seriously bad issues with repression. She does not deal with her emotions, she does not talk about them, she does not face them. Going to Cordova should've been an amazing opportunity, but instead of resolving things at home first she used it as a way to hide from her marriage. Admittedly stems from a family dynamic that refuses to acknowledge any problems, or to take her seriously when she does.

One of my favorite episodes is when she goes to visit PB's brother, and every time they talk while PB is gone the brother is much darker and more somber. Same kind of dynamic done in a different way, but she totally fails to see how it relates to her.

Well when you put it that way. I guess I kinda relate to her

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OctilIery posted...

I maintain that Todd is a good person. He has his own issues that he's figuring out about himself, but he's a good friend, very nice, and sets boundaries when he needs to. PC too, though she does a couple awful things.

The worst thing he did was his relationship with the girl he didn't feel attracted to... I don't think it's enough to make him a bad person.

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epik_fail1 posted...

OctilIery posted...

I maintain that Todd is a good person. He has his own issues that he's figuring out about himself, but he's a good friend, very nice, and sets boundaries when he needs to. PC too, though she does a couple awful things.

The worst thing he did was his relationship with the girl he didn't feel attracted to... I don't think it's enough to make him a bad person.

I don't think that was even him doing a bad thing so much as coming to terms with himself and being in denial. I felt bad for both of them :(

OctilIery posted...

I don't think that was even him doing a bad thing so much as coming to terms with himself and being in denial. I felt bad for both of them :(

I have been there too.

I am gay and I used to date a girl. My behavior was kinda similar to his when I wanted to have sex

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Todds big problem is that he cant focus or follow through on anything, and it led to all of his clown dentists becoming rabid, entirely due to his neglect
Season 5 is basically the first time he takes responsibility for his own actions and actually confronts and corrects his mistake.