Current Events > The ending(s) of ME3 still piss me off to this day (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Swagnificent119 posted...

I thought it was only impossible to reach if you gave the illusive man the collector base, as that lowered the EMS needed for the best endings for Control while destroying it lowered it for Destroy...

I destroyed the base and i always did destroy ending with Shepard surviving. No multiplayer or anything

NibeIungsnarf posted...

Do you want a cookie or something?

I'd rather you just take a chill pill, tbqh.

vocedelmorte posted...

Swagnificent119 posted...

I thought it was only impossible to reach if you gave the illusive man the collector base, as that lowered the EMS needed for the best endings for Control while destroying it lowered it for Destroy...

I destroyed the base and i always did destroy ending with Shepard surviving. No multiplayer or anything

Yeah, if you guys are going off forum posts from when the game first came out, this is why people are saying they didn't play multiplayer and still got Shepard survives I think.

People didn't realize that the ME2 decision effected EMS in an unseen way until a month or so after the game came out I think.
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The Geth hate in this topic is disgusting.
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You can engineer a situation in ME2 where you can bring Legion on Tali's loyalty mission and it's one of the funniest things I've done in that game.

Bioware wrote themselves into a corner with the Reapers and had no clue how to end the series
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SpaghettiCookie posted...

The games arent all about that, it is one part

Nope.
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50Blessings posted...

AlecSkorpio posted...

SpaghettiCookie posted...

And it keeps Shepard in character as hes never even hinted at being willing to commit multiple genocide and say oh they are casualties yet somehow only the loud people on the internet

Except he literally does hint at this in certain dialogues in Mass Effect 1

Not to mention him destroying a whole system in Arrival.

But yeah, keep going on and on about how everything was foreshadowing towards the military super soldier pushing the galaxy into a forced utopia.

Yeah, for real.

It sounds like this dude has literally only picked paragon options in every playthrough of Mass Effect lmfao

When there was no other way, yes.
When there were better ways, he picked better ways

Problem with Rachni was not knowing what theyd do

Hence why destroy is renegade. Its genocide because you cant trust anybody and can only see 2 feet in front of you, not the long term.
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Darmik posted...

The Geth hate in this topic is disgusting.

This is a topic for people who cant think much for themselves and only understand the direct quote said destroy.

Ive read through the dialogue several times. Since synthesis was never directly stated by the good guys, these people cant understand it

Even though its what the good guys do repeatedly.

Destroy weakens the story and its worrisome to think that Bioware will listen to people who cant understand it and make the next game about that, instead of sticking to their guns.
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By the end of the trilogy Shepard is literally Space Jesus. He's not a complex character. Whatever he chooses is the right decision and the game isn't willing to fight you over it.
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SpaghettiCookie posted...

Destroy weakens the story

How

SpaghettiCookie posted...

Destroy weakens the story

Nope. It's the only logical choice. End of story.
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SpaghettiCookie posted...

Destroy weakens the story

I'd argue that wasting 2.99 entire games of meaningless crap that gets thrown out at the last second to give you an A, B, or C ending is what ruins the story, but that's a different argument.
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It says a lot about the game that we can have a multi-page argument about ME3's ending 6+ years after it was released.

In Destroy you sacrifice artificial life in order to stop the Reapers
In Control you sacrifice Shepard's humanity to stop the Reapers
In Synthesis you sacrifice individuality to stop the Reapers

That's probably the nicest way I can frame the endings. In reality it was tossed together and gave you a multiple choice dialogue prompt to be over with. All three of them shit on stuff they built up over the trilogy because they're all complex answers that need to be explained within minutes with no build up.
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dave_is_slick posted...

SpaghettiCookie posted...

Destroy weakens the story

Nope. It's the only logical choice. End of story.

ocelot51 posted...

It says a lot about the game that we can have a multi-page argument about ME3's ending 6+ years after it was released.

That it waa such a shittastic ending that we can continue to find new things wrong with it?
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dave_is_slick posted...

That it waa such a shittastic ending that we can continue to find new things wrong with it?

Yes! It's like having a new perspective on an art piece.

I think, that people who don't understand why Destroy is the only correct ending, are lacking in morality department.
You literally have to choose to sacrifice machines to save an actual living beings, and you shouldn't have issues with doing so tbh.
Yes, its sad, but its the right choice and the lesser evil

There's a whole lot of plots and characters in the trilogy that show that AI are living beings that deserve to live.
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Darmik posted...

There's a whole lot of plots and characters in the trilogy that show that AI are living beings that deserve to live.

Some do, most don't, but you aren't given that option at the end to destroy only the bad ones.

It's an extremely basic trolley problem and calling it some kind of complex storytelling is a joke.
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Tyranthraxus posted...

Darmik posted...

There's a whole lot of plots and characters in the trilogy that show that AI are living beings that deserve to live.

Some do, most don't, but you aren't given that option at the end to destroy only the bad ones.

It's an extremely basic trolley problem and calling it some kind of complex storytelling is a joke.

I know. I don't think any of the three endings are the correct one. They all suck.

I go with Control personally. If they're gonna lean so hard with the Space Jesus shit may as well get Shepard to ascend into Godhood.

Synthesis creeps me out and Destroy is a shitty end for many subplots.
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I never even finished ME3 because I heard the endings were so bad and I gave up, but having just watched the Refusal ending, I feel like that's probably the best of the four.

"I'm not gonna wipe out all synthetics, I'm not gonna force everyone into some weird synthesis thing, and I'm definitely not gonna trust that you'll just let me "control" you. If that means we lose, then we lose. Someday, somehow, you'll be beaten." And then the ending bears out that eventually, a cycle did get enough warning, did act in time, and the Reapers were outright defeated forever in battle. I get it, that has an appeal in terms of it being a realistic outcome of a fight with impossible odds. I think if they fleshed that one out a little bit instead of it being arbitrary DLC, it would've been a solid enough ending. Your efforts weren't enough to stop them this time, but by being the first cycle to put up such a fight, the Reapers were weakened enough that they were stopped next time. It wasn't in vain -- I didn't take "lol all of your effort was for nothing" at all from that.

Destroy works too, but I'd feel really bad blowing up Legion and EDI. Unsatisfying conclusion to three games of debate over synthetic life unless you have already concluded that they have zero value.
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The problem with all three endings is that you have to take Starchild at his word and for whatever reason he seems to live up to it in all three endings.

Which is stupid in its own way.
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To be fair. At that point you have already lost so it's not like you have anything left to lose...
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Darmik posted...

The problem with all three endings is that you have to take Starchild at his word and for whatever reason he seems to live up to it in all three endings.

Which is stupid in its own way.

Thing is that Starchild want you to choose anything but destroy. Clearly you should choose destroy just to spite fucker

vocedelmorte posted...

Darmik posted...

The problem with all three endings is that you have to take Starchild at his word and for whatever reason he seems to live up to it in all three endings.

Which is stupid in its own way.

Thing is that Starchild want you to choose anything but destroy. Clearly you should choose destroy just to spite fucker

Starchild doesn't want anything. He dies no matter what option you choose.
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I understand that, however, conversing with him leave that impression that destroying reapers is the least desirable outcome

vocedelmorte posted...

I understand that, however, conversing with him leave that impression that destroying reapers is the least desirable outcome

most uncertain outcome, not least desirable.

Mass Effect is a series that is full of hope.
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TheBlueMonk_ posted...

im glad i gave up playing that game halfway through 2.

lmao yeah I love reading the debates but I also stopped halfway through 2. I was waiting for something cool to happen but the game was like "hey, go collect more crew mates!!" and I gave up.
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Hexenherz posted...

TheBlueMonk_ posted...

im glad i gave up playing that game halfway through 2.

lmao yeah I love reading the debates but I also stopped halfway through 2. I was waiting for something cool to happen but the game was like "hey, go collect more crew mates!!" and I gave up.

That's the whole game. One you gather all the crewmates you fight the final boss and the game ends.
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I've always had enough stats so I'm not totally sure but don't you need to earn the Control and Synthesis endings? I know you at least need to earn the Synthesis one.
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vocedelmorte posted...

I think, that people who don't understand why Destroy is the only correct ending, are lacking in morality department.
You literally have to choose to sacrifice machines to save an actual living beings, and you shouldn't have issues with doing so tbh.
Yes, its sad, but its the right choice and the lesser evil

But as you play through the game, you realize that the machines are just as alive as organics. Legion referring to himself in first person shows they have become individuals.
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Synthesis is literally letting the reapers win and over writing everyones dna, that is such a violation of rights and a persons body it is not even funny. Saren is a prime example of this as they made him part synthetic but it seems without him knowing. This is also the only option where the reapers still have free will which means NOTHING is there to prevent them from continuing the wipe out later by their own choosing. Just because someone or something has an understanding of others does NOT mean they wont war or wipe you out anyway.

Destroy is the best and most paragon of endings, your destroying the reapers for good, star brat is strongly against it (star brat is the one controling the reapers so if he does not like it then its clearly the right choice), and the only sacrifices are Edi who was willing to die for the greater goos, and the geth which can be recreated.
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"Hey, Commander Riker? I think we should just let ourselves get assimilated by the borg" ~ People who think Destroy is a morally wrong choice
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Tyranthraxus posted...

"Hey, Commander Riker? I think we should just let ourselves get assimilated by the borg" ~ People who think Destroy is a morally wrong choice

Pretty much this, and the borg are actually more reasonable if you watch VOY then the reapers are in any of the ME games.
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Again the Star Child doesn't want anything. He leaves the decision up to Shepard because his 'solution' doesn't work anymore.

Catalyst: You have hope, more than you think. The fact that you are standing here, the first organic ever proves it. But it also proves my solution wont work any more.

Shepard: So now what?

Catalyst: We find a new solution.

Shepard: Why are you telling me this? Why Help me?

Catalyst: You have altered the variables.

Shepard: What do you mean?

Shepard: The crucible changed me, created new... possibilities. But I cant make them happen. If there is to be a new solution. You must act. It is now in your power to destroy us. But be warned, others will be destroyed as well. The crucible will not discriminate. All synthetics will be targeted. Even you are partly synthetic.

I want details.

Shepard: What exactly will happen?

Catalyst: Your crucible device appear to be largely intact. However the effects of the blast will not be constrained to the Reapers. Technology you rely on will be affected. But those who survive should have little difficulty in repairing the damage... There will still be loses but no more that what has already been lost.

It will end the war?

Shepard: But the Reapers will be destroyed?

Catalyst: Yes but the peace wont last. Soon your children will create synthetics and then the chaos will come back.

Shepard: There has to be another way.

Catalyst: There is, you could instead use the energy of the crucible to seize control of the Reapers.

Shepard: So the Illusive man was right after all?

Catalyst: Yes but he could never have taken control, because we already controlled him.

Shepard: But I can?

Catalyst: You will die, you will control us but you will lose everything you have.

I dont understand.

Shepard: How can I control the Reapers if Im dead?

Catalyst: Your corporeal form will be dissolved. But your thoughts and even your memories will continue. You will no longer be organic. Your connection to your kind will be lost. Although you will remain aware of their existence.

I think I understand...

Shepard: But the Reapers will obey me?

Catalyst: Yes. We will be yours to control and direct as you see fit.

Shepard: Hmm...

Catalyst: There is another solution... Synthesis.

Shepard: And that is?

Catalyst: Add your energy to the crucibles. The chain reaction will combine all synthetic and organic life into a new framework. A new DNA.

How?

Shepard: Explain how my energy can be added to the crucible.

Catalyst: Your organic energy. The essence of who and what you are, will be broken down and then dispersed.

Shepard: To do what exactly?

Catalyst: The energy of the crucible, released in this way will alter the matrix of all organic life in the galaxy. Organics seek perfection through technology, synthetics seek perfection through understanding. Organics will be perfected by integrating fully with synthetic technology. Synthetics in turn will finally have understanding of organics. It is the ideal solution. Now that we know it is possible, it is inevitable we will reach synthesis.

Shepard: Why couldn't you do it sooner?

Catalyst: We have tried... a similar solution in the past. But it has always failed.

Shepard: Why?

Catalyst: Because the organics were not ready, it is not something that can be... forced. You are ready and you may choose it.

Thats a big change.

Shepard: Youre asking me to change everything, everyone. I cant make that decision. And I wont.

Catalyst: Why not? Synthetics are already part of you. Can you imagine your life without them?

Shepard: That is beside the point.

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Offworlder1 posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

"Hey, Commander Riker? I think we should just let ourselves get assimilated by the borg" ~ People who think Destroy is a morally wrong choice

Pretty much this, and the borg are actually more reasonable if you watch VOY then the reapers are in any of the ME games.

The borg are a bit more complicated than reapers. It's proven you can break assimilation and return people to normal--and they're good people as well like Seven. There's entire species that are now extinct but continue to exist as the borg that could be revived.

And yet under no sane federation or any space-faring civilization is going to think it's worth trying to salvage anything positive out of the borg because of the potential of what you have to lose when it doesn't work.
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Indeed, and its clear who made the reapers are practically as morally bankrupt as the reapers themselves.
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I played a complete paragon playthrough the first time then made the choice to wipe out all AI. Lmao whoops

Axiom posted...

I played a complete paragon playthrough the first time then made the choice to wipe out all AI. Lmao whoops

You made the paragon good ending choice.
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Offworlder1 posted...

Axiom posted...

I played a complete paragon playthrough the first time then made the choice to wipe out all AI. Lmao whoops

You made the paragon good ending choice.

I wouldn't call genocide and killing your best bud's lover a paragon choice tbh >_>

I'm telling you Control is the best. Nobody dies and Shepard gets to narrate the ending as a creepy Robo-overlord. Perfect.
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Axiom posted...

Offworlder1 posted...

Axiom posted...

I played a complete paragon playthrough the first time then made the choice to wipe out all AI. Lmao whoops

You made the paragon good ending choice.

I wouldn't call genocide and killing your best bud's lover a paragon choice tbh >_>

I wouldn't call becoming a Reaper good and I also wouldn't call the horrific synthesis good either.
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Darmik posted...

I'm telling you Control is the best. Nobody dies and Shepard gets to narrate the ending as a creepy Robo-overlord. Perfect.

Yeah the hero sacrificing himself is probably as close as you will get to a paragon ending

Tyranthraxus posted...

Offworlder1 posted...

Tyranthraxus posted...

"Hey, Commander Riker? I think we should just let ourselves get assimilated by the borg" ~ People who think Destroy is a morally wrong choice

Pretty much this, and the borg are actually more reasonable if you watch VOY then the reapers are in any of the ME games.

The borg are a bit more complicated than reapers. It's proven you can break assimilation and return people to normal--and they're good people as well like Seven. There's entire species that are now extinct but continue to exist as the borg that could be revived.

And yet under no sane federation or any space-faring civilization is going to think it's worth trying to salvage anything positive out of the borg because of the potential of what you have to lose when it doesn't work.

The Borg from star trek? What exactly did they do it sounds familiar to what the reapers were doing in ME
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The other cool thing about the Control ending is that it's the only one that changes if you're Paragon or Renegade
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Darmik posted...

The other cool thing about the Control ending is that it's the only one that changes if you're Paragon or Renegade

Shit really. I did the destroy on both of my characters cause it just seemed right for my renegade femshep that hated all aliens (Except Liara of course lol) and AI to kill them

Axiom posted...

Darmik posted...

The other cool thing about the Control ending is that it's the only one that changes if you're Paragon or Renegade

Shit really. I did the destroy on both of my characters cause it just seemed right for my renegade femshep that hated all aliens (Except Liara of course lol) and AI to kill them

Yep if you're Paragon Shepard talks about being a guardian for the weak, to give hope for the future and looking over old friends. Renegade Shep talks about leadership, ending bickering and creating a world where the strong thrive.
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Extended cut fixes a lot of my issues for me its destroy followed by the Citadel DLC as a fun epilogue.
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