Current Events > Teacher fired for not using transgender pronouns

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna946006

A Virginia high school teacher who refused to use a transgender students new pronouns has been fired.

News outlets report that the West Point School Board voted unanimously Thursday to dismiss Peter Vlaming after a four-hour hearing that drew an overflow crowd. The school system said in a statement that Vlaming was fired for insubordination.

Its not suggested that the 47-year-old West Point High School French teacher deliberately referred to the student using female pronouns in the students presence, but in conversations with others.

Witnesses described a slip-up when the student was about to run into a wall and Vlaming told others to stop her. When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

Vlamings attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the students name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise.

Nondiscrimination policies were updated a year ago to include protections for gender identity, but didnt include guidance on gender pronoun use, according to Vlamings lawyer, Voyles, who notes Vlaming has constitutional rights.

One of those rights that is not curtailed is to be free from being compelled to speak something that violates your conscience."

That is not tolerance, Vlaming said. That is coercion.

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Imagine actually keeping your opinions on the matter private, and then getting fired because you attempted to keep the student from running into a wall.
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Not surprised
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i want to be addressed as "supreme ruler of the galaxy"
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Alexanaxela posted...

i want to be addressed as "supreme ruler of the galaxy"

That is a title not a gender
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Maybe it's time we stop discriminating against amateur nouns.

yeah so what the fuck happened to the first amendment
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tbh i'd like to hear more about this "running into a wall" thing
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fair;next. refusing a directive from the school is grounds for firing.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Witnesses described a slip-up when the student was about to run into a wall and Vlaming told others to stop her. When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

1) Lmao, who walks into a wall?

2) the stupid fucking country we live in.

"Omg, that person just saved that other person!"
"Pssh, sure, but the Nazi just assumed their gender! Let's ruin them!"

Jesus fuck, it's literally that episode of It's Always Sunny. This shit right here, libs. This is why.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Alexanaxela posted...

i want to be addressed as "supreme ruler of the galaxy"

That is a title not a gender

don't care
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bloodydeath0 posted...

tbh i'd like to hear more about this "running into a wall" thing

I figured it was literal? They are in 9th grade tho.
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darkphoenix181 posted...

Alexanaxela posted...

i want to be addressed as "supreme ruler of the galaxy"

That is a title not a gender

That's not for you to decide, bigot.
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This is stupid. And i agree with the compromise of just referring to them by name.
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Bruce_Somali posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

Witnesses described a slip-up when the student was about to run into a wall and Vlaming told others to stop her. When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

1) Lmao, who walks into a wall?

2) the stupid fucking country we live in.

"Omg, that person just saved that other person!"
"Pssh, sure, but the Nazi just assumed their gender! Let's ruin them!"

Jesus fuck, it's literally that episode of It's Always Sunny. This shit right here, libs. This is why.

I like how this is the point that you latch on to while ignoring everything else in the post. His slip-up doesn't excuse the overall refusal to use pronouns and it doesn't excuse the teacher constantly misgendering him behind his back to other faculty.
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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/400-current-events/77280599
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Bruce_Somali posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

Alexanaxela posted...

i want to be addressed as "supreme ruler of the galaxy"

That is a title not a gender

That's not for you to decide, bigot.

Yes it is because my identity is absolute supreme judge in all matters and preeminent decider.

That you just refused to acknowledge this and call me a bigot instead of my identity shows that you are alt right and the true bugot.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

Bruce_Somali posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

Witnesses described a slip-up when the student was about to run into a wall and Vlaming told others to stop her. When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

1) Lmao, who walks into a wall?

2) the stupid fucking country we live in.

"Omg, that person just saved that other person!"
"Pssh, sure, but the Nazi just assumed their gender! Let's ruin them!"

Jesus fuck, it's literally that episode of It's Always Sunny. This shit right here, libs. This is why.

I like how this is the point that you latch on to while ignoring everything else in the post. His slip-up doesn't excuse the overall refusal to use pronouns and it doesn't excuse the teacher constantly misgendering him behind his back to other faculty.

Man, this shit is so dumb. When you start infringing on other people's constitutional civil basic fucking human rights then your cause sucks ass and needs to go away.
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Why have all the posts in this topic neglected to pay attention to:

When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

Vlamings attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the students name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise.

It seems like nothing would have happened if he didn't take a hard stance about misgendering.
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This is the second (third?) example I can remember where a teacher offers to use students actual last names as compromises and they're fired for it anyway (in the first example IIRC they did it for the whole class so nobody was singled out).

Whether you support the student or the teacher, can we stop pretending it isn't "compelled speech" yet?
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Witnesses described a slip-up when the student was about to run into a wall

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s0nicfan posted...

Whether you support the student or the teacher, can we stop pretending it isn't "compelled speech" yet?

In the same way that firing a teacher for constantly calling a male student a female or a female student a male is "compelled speech".
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P4wn4g3 posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

Bruce_Somali posted...

darkphoenix181 posted...

Witnesses described a slip-up when the student was about to run into a wall and Vlaming told others to stop her. When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

1) Lmao, who walks into a wall?

2) the stupid fucking country we live in.

"Omg, that person just saved that other person!"
"Pssh, sure, but the Nazi just assumed their gender! Let's ruin them!"

Jesus fuck, it's literally that episode of It's Always Sunny. This shit right here, libs. This is why.

I like how this is the point that you latch on to while ignoring everything else in the post. His slip-up doesn't excuse the overall refusal to use pronouns and it doesn't excuse the teacher constantly misgendering him behind his back to other faculty.

Man, this shit is so dumb. When you start infringing on other people's constitutional civil basic fucking human rights then your cause sucks ass and needs to go away.

If he wanted the right to be a shithead so much then he shouldn't be a government employee.
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I wonder if the teacher is gonna sue
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s0nicfan posted...

Imagine actually keeping your opinions on the matter private, and then getting fired because you attempted to keep the student from running into a wall.

But he didn't keep them private though. He tried to work out some stupid compromise and the school was like "Nah."
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ehh it would be fair if the teacher was maliciously referring to him as 'her' but it sounds like he tried to make some accommodations and the fact it wasnt an actual policy may give him some claim
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I'm curious what part of the Bible addresses calling people by their biological pronoun, I wasn't aware this was a thing 2000 years ago
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Good
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COVxy posted...

Why have all the posts in this topic neglected to pay attention to:

When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

Vlamings attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the students name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise.

It seems like nothing would have happened if he didn't take a hard stance about misgendering.

kind of useless to be talking about hypotheticals though.
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andel posted...

ehh it would be fair if the teacher was maliciously referring to him as 'her' but it sounds like he tried to make some accommodations and the fact it wasnt an actual policy may give him some claim

That "compromise" singles out the student, and he was misgendering him behind his back anyways. I'm not sure what recourse he's supposed to have for continuously ignoring guidelines flagrantly in front of other staff.
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COVxy posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Whether you support the student or the teacher, can we stop pretending it isn't "compelled speech" yet?

In the same way that firing a teacher for constantly calling a male student a female or a female student a male is "compelled speech".

Did the teacher call the student by the wrong pronoun in class or to their face outside of this one incident designed to prevent them from getting hurt? That's not what I'm reading.
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darkprince45 posted...

I wonder if the teacher is gonna sue

Article says he has a lawyer
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P4wn4g3 posted...

COVxy posted...

Why have all the posts in this topic neglected to pay attention to:

When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

Vlamings attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the students name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise.

It seems like nothing would have happened if he didn't take a hard stance about misgendering.

kind of useless to be talking about hypotheticals though.

I mean, not really. I can run in front of a car and then complain when I get hit. But the other person is perfectly fair to tell me that I wouldn't have gotten hit if I didn't run right in front of it.
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s0nicfan posted...

Whether you support the student or the teacher, can we stop pretending it isn't "compelled speech" yet?

Is it "compelled speech" if I insist a teacher calls me by my real name "Joe," as compared to any other name he wants to call me (say, Helen)? Is it "compelled speech" if he's reprimanded or fired for refusing to call me Joe?
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eston posted...

I'm curious what part of the Bible addresses calling people by their biological pronoun, I wasn't aware this was a thing 2000 years ago

Jesus says that in the beginning God made them male and female.
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A_Good_Boy posted...

andel posted...

ehh it would be fair if the teacher was maliciously referring to him as 'her' but it sounds like he tried to make some accommodations and the fact it wasnt an actual policy may give him some claim

That "compromise" singles out the student, and he was misgendering him behind his back anyways. I'm not sure what recourse he's supposed to have for continuously ignoring guidelines flagrantly in front of other staff.

The school has no business "gendering" someone in the first place. This is an obvious violation of the first amendment.
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Lol, good. He can get a job at an anti-trans location. Two.... three hours away, there's Liberty University. I am sure they'd be happy to offer him a job. In fact, this is probably all he needs on his resume.
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COVxy posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

COVxy posted...

Why have all the posts in this topic neglected to pay attention to:

When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

Vlamings attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the students name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise.

It seems like nothing would have happened if he didn't take a hard stance about misgendering.

kind of useless to be talking about hypotheticals though.

I mean, not really. I can run in front of a car and then complain when I get hit. But the other person is perfectly fair to tell me that I wouldn't have gotten hit if I didn't run right in front of it.

but you did and if you were jaywalking you can be charged for it, too bad so sad. see how that works
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A_Good_Boy posted...

andel posted...

ehh it would be fair if the teacher was maliciously referring to him as 'her' but it sounds like he tried to make some accommodations and the fact it wasnt an actual policy may give him some claim

That "compromise" singles out the student, and he was misgendering him behind his back anyways. I'm not sure what recourse he's supposed to have for continuously ignoring guidelines flagrantly in front of other staff.

was he calling the student 'her' to other students or was it faculty? if other students then fair, next. if it was faculty that is different
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I don't think this is the full story.

This is probably the straw that broke the camels back.

It's hard to fire people. If you want to through the effort of canning someone's ass then its usually because they suck and the "reason for firing them" is just whatever latest dumb thing they did was.
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Good. He is a fucking scumbag and deserved it.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

COVxy posted...

P4wn4g3 posted...

COVxy posted...

Why have all the posts in this topic neglected to pay attention to:

When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action

Vlamings attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the students name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise.

It seems like nothing would have happened if he didn't take a hard stance about misgendering.

kind of useless to be talking about hypotheticals though.

I mean, not really. I can run in front of a car and then complain when I get hit. But the other person is perfectly fair to tell me that I wouldn't have gotten hit if I didn't run right in front of it.

but you did and if you were jaywalking you can be charged for it, too bad so sad. see how that works

I don't see how that's a response to my point.

I think it's perfectly fine to comment when someone gets themselves into a pile of shit from an incident that would have gone past unnoticed because they are too much of a personal diva to consider someone else's feelings.
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The only situation in which the school itself isn't in violation of the first is if the student had an IEP requiring everyone to treat them in a specific way. There aren't exceptions to this.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I don't think this is the full story.

This is probably the straw that broke the camels back.

It's hard to fire people. If you want to through the effort of canning someone's ass then its usually because they suck and the "reason for firing them" is just whatever latest dumb thing they did was.

I mean that is why the school board had a 4 hour hearing I would imagine.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

andel posted...

ehh it would be fair if the teacher was maliciously referring to him as 'her' but it sounds like he tried to make some accommodations and the fact it wasnt an actual policy may give him some claim

That "compromise" singles out the student, and he was misgendering him behind his back anyways. I'm not sure what recourse he's supposed to have for continuously ignoring guidelines flagrantly in front of other staff.

The school has no business "gendering" someone in the first place. This is an obvious violation of the first amendment.

Who's 1st amendment right? The students right to express herself? Yeah, I'd saying the government employee going out of his way to shit on the 1st amendment rights of this student is pretty scummy. He should be fired. Oh wait...
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A_Good_Boy posted...

The students right to express herself?

Students don't have the same rights as everyone else, as per agreements made by parents who put them into schools.

No, obviously it's a violation of the entire staff's constitutional rights.
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He didnt do anything wrong. This is dumb
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I say all this, by the way, as someone who needed and IEP and was treated shitty by a teacher who thought I was just making shit up. There are good reasons these protocols are followed.

Of course, we'll never know whether there was an IEP in place or not. Pretty sure the school can't release that information and this is clearly a clickbait article.
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P4wn4g3 posted...

A_Good_Boy posted...

The students right to express herself?

Students don't have the same rights as everyone else, as per agreements made by parents who put them into schools.

No, obviously it's a violation of the entire staff's constitutional rights.

Do you think a teacher should be fired if they verbally degrade their students? Like calling them stupid little asswipes and stuff?
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