Current Events > The Tomb Raider reboot trilogy is very strange

(+) Yeah! (+)

It has a bit of an identity problem. The first game is a shootbang game with barely any tombs. Shadow has way more tombs and exploration but barely any shootbang. Rise is sort of a mix of the two.

So it is in this weird situation where there's no real definitive stand-out and I don't know if there's anyone who loves all three games.

I can't think of many other gaming trilogies like this. Each game struggles with its identity problem in a unique way in each game. I don't really know how to explain it. It's sort of like they have this AAA checklist to follow of things they have to include but that spreads their focus too thin so something about each game always feels a but half-baked even though the games have pretty high production values.

The plot is a completely different style of mess. Trinity and Jonah just aren't really interesting and Lara barely has a personality during these games. I don't know why they think the somber and serious tone was the right direction for this franchise. It never really clicks.
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Holy shit there are three?

Should've left Lara alone. She was fine the way she was before the reboot.
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sLaCkEr408___RJ posted...

Holy shit there are three?

Yeah Shadow of the Tomb Raider was last month.

It felt like people stopped giving a shit after the first one though.
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I dunno I kinda liked them all
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I can see why they would shy away from tomb raiding despite the title. In recent years, it's gone under the microscope as white Europeans robbing the tombs of people of color in other nations.

And, honestly, it kinda is. "Let's stick this Egyptian guy's corpse in our museum."

I hate Uncharted because it's basically defeat a bunch of enemies, climb a wall (fun part), defeat a bunch of enemies, climb a wall...

I would love a game like Uncharted but with way more exploration.
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I liked 2013 well enough. I just haven't played Rise outside of like 2 hours yet lol. I need to get caught up.

They're bland as fuck
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Esrac posted...

Should've left Lara alone. She was fine the way she was before the reboot.

I think her design is actually pretty good. But they just missed the mark with whatever character development they were trying to tell throughout the series.

In Shadow she shows more personality in her flashback as a child compared to anywhere else in the series. Some of the side quests also show a better side to her that maybe they should have placed a better focus on.
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I liked the first one and Rise but I lost all interest in Shadow once I saw the E3 demo last year. Then I heard that it didn't have a lot of combat it was all over.
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Skye Reynolds posted...

I can see why they would shy away from tomb raiding despite the title. In recent years, it's gone under the microscope as white Europeans robbing the tombs of people of color in other nations.

And, honestly, it kinda is. "Let's stick this Egyptian guy's corpse in our museum."

There's a whole lot of tomb raiding in Shadow actually. I think they're going for some sort of commentary on your point there too. But Shadow is in this weird spot of the franchise where it's supposed to be the final reboot game for the established character. But yet the interpretation seems to be that she's some sort of ruthless killing machine who burdens herself with saving the world despite possibly making this worse for everyone else.

Which isn't a terrible interpretation per se but we're three games into this reboot and it just isn't really cohesive with anything else in the franchise.

Damn_Underscore posted...

I hate Uncharted because it's basically defeat a bunch of enemies, climb a wall (fun part), defeat a bunch of enemies, climb a wall...

I would love a game like Uncharted but with way more exploration.

I think Shadow is pretty good with this actually. There are giant sections of the map that are completely optional with unique tombs and crypts. I think it does that side of things better than any other Uncharted or Tomb Raider game.
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Darmik posted...

Esrac posted...

Should've left Lara alone. She was fine the way she was before the reboot.

I think her design is actually pretty good. But they just missed the mark with whatever character development they were trying to tell throughout the series.

In Shadow she shows more personality in her flashback as a child compared to anywhere else in the series. Some of the side quests also show a better side to her that maybe they should have placed a better focus on.

I think her redesign is kind of boring. Ms. Brownhair McPonytail. Nothing about her really seems to stand out. She could easily be confused with Katniss Everdeen. Compared to her old style that was, if nothing else, fun.
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Darmik posted...

Skye Reynolds posted...

I can see why they would shy away from tomb raiding despite the title. In recent years, it's gone under the microscope as white Europeans robbing the tombs of people of color in other nations.

And, honestly, it kinda is. "Let's stick this Egyptian guy's corpse in our museum."

There's a whole lot of tomb raiding in Shadow actually. I think they're going for some sort of commentary on your point there too. But Shadow is in this weird spot of the franchise where it's supposed to be the final reboot game for the established character. But yet the interpretation seems to be that she's some sort of ruthless killing machine who burdens herself with saving the world despite possibly making this worse for everyone else.

Which isn't a terrible interpretation per se but we're three games into this reboot and it just isn't really cohesive with anything else in the franchise.

I wonder what's gonna happen when Disney finally makes use of the Indiana Jones license. Supposedly, they're going to get one more film out of Harrison Ford. When they inevitably reboot, he probably won't be so quick to say, "It belongs in a museum."

Not unless they want him to have a change of heart.

Her old style just matched what the visuals could accomplish at the time. I don't think the cartoony look would hold up that well these days.

She's fine in the Lara Croft games as well.

I don't see how she looks anything like Katniss outside of using a bow.
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I think the fact that they made the second game an Xbox exclusive for a while hurt it too much and it never really came back after that. I know i was one of the many people who was going to get it at launch until that happened. And then when it finally did come out after the bullshit timed exclusive ended no one cared anymore.
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SpiritSephiroth posted...

I think the fact that they made the second game an Xbox exclusive for a while hurt it too much and it never really came back after that. I know i was one of the many people who was going to get it at launch until that happened. And then when it finally did come out after the bullshit timed exclusive ended no one cared anymore.

Yeah maybe. But nobody seems to care about Shadow either. Maybe it was just a case of the first game not really grabbing people enough to stick around. Timed exclusives don't usually hurt a game this badly.
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2013 was good. I could overlook the lack of tombs and the simple gameplay because I thought the story was engaging enough.

I really anticipated they were going to buff everything out with Rise but they didn't. There weren't really many more tombs and the ones that were in the game took like a minute to solve. The story was almost a joke, and the game felt like a copy and paste of the 2013 game just with a Russian setting.
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I as much as I enjoyed both the rebooted games they lack character, Lara especially

If they were aiming for realistic, I'd have liked them to go further and deconstruct itself. Amp up the gore/violence and portray her as an rich amoral sociopath who only cares about adventure and little else

She isn't a heroic character imo
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Pre-reboot Tomb Raider is just about my favorite game series ever. I played the first one in the reboot trilogy and mostly enjoyed it for what it was, but I felt like I had no reason to play the next one because it was so unlike the Tomb Raider I knew (puzzles, feeling of isolation, etc). Maybe the second one was better but they had already lost me by that point.

I feel like they took a gamble on changing everything to pull new people into the series, but those people only stayed for the first game because it was something new and there was hype attached to it, and then after that they had lost a lot of the original fans as well. So it paid off at first but was probably shortsighted.
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The first one was alright and the second one was pretty good, but I havent gotten the third game yet
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I think the biggest mistake was giving Lara friends/allies, though this was something they started doing even before the reboot. Being a kind of fucked up person and a loner was the only thing that really made her interesting. What's unique about her now? She's just another generic action hero.
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SpiralDrift posted...

I think the biggest mistake was giving Lara friends/allies, though this was something they started doing even before the reboot. Being a kind of fucked up person and a loner was the only thing that really made her interesting. What's unique about her now? She's just another generic action hero.

She only has one friend though: Jonah
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YookaLaylee posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

I think the biggest mistake was giving Lara friends/allies, though this was something they started doing even before the reboot. Being a kind of fucked up person and a loner was the only thing that really made her interesting. What's unique about her now? She's just another generic action hero.

She only has one friend though: Jonah

Who kind of came out of nowhere IIRC like when they introduced him in the second game I didn't know who the eff he was or why I should care about him.
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YookaLaylee posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

I think the biggest mistake was giving Lara friends/allies, though this was something they started doing even before the reboot. Being a kind of fucked up person and a loner was the only thing that really made her interesting. What's unique about her now? She's just another generic action hero.

She only has one friend though: Jonah

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/laracroft/images/8/8e/2013-10-01_00161.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131117060540

You know there were more.
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Hexenherz posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

I think the biggest mistake was giving Lara friends/allies, though this was something they started doing even before the reboot. Being a kind of fucked up person and a loner was the only thing that really made her interesting. What's unique about her now? She's just another generic action hero.

She only has one friend though: Jonah

Who kind of came out of nowhere IIRC like when they introduced him in the second game I didn't know who the eff he was or why I should care about him.

He was in the first game
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I didn't remember him at all xd.
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Hexenherz posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

I think the biggest mistake was giving Lara friends/allies, though this was something they started doing even before the reboot. Being a kind of fucked up person and a loner was the only thing that really made her interesting. What's unique about her now? She's just another generic action hero.

She only has one friend though: Jonah

Who kind of came out of nowhere IIRC like when they introduced him in the second game I didn't know who the eff he was or why I should care about him.

He was in the first game...

I thought the supporting cast in all of the games were pretty terrible honestly.

I think Shadow comes the closest to the originals overall. Especially if you do the side content and put difficult puzzles on (stops Lara from blurting out the solution). There's a whole section in the middle of the game that basically goes full blown horror and that stuff carries over to some of the optional tombs too.

I just wish the whole game was like that. There's so much other stuff that bogs it down. But because it's the third game in the series it's pretty much needed. Why a game with this amount of combat needs a skill tree is beyond me. It's only in there because the previous games had it.

A clean break will do the series good.
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SpiralDrift posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

I think the biggest mistake was giving Lara friends/allies, though this was something they started doing even before the reboot. Being a kind of fucked up person and a loner was the only thing that really made her interesting. What's unique about her now? She's just another generic action hero.

She only has one friend though: Jonah

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/laracroft/images/8/8e/2013-10-01_00161.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131117060540

You know there were more.

Yeah she was shipwrecked with a crew in the first game. Hence more supporting characters. The other games is mostly just Jonah with a SMALL few instances of someone elee

lol remember that nerd who gave his life up for Lara in the first game? Did anyone give a shit during that scene?
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CruelBuffalo posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

YookaLaylee posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

I think the biggest mistake was giving Lara friends/allies, though this was something they started doing even before the reboot. Being a kind of fucked up person and a loner was the only thing that really made her interesting. What's unique about her now? She's just another generic action hero.

She only has one friend though: Jonah

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/laracroft/images/8/8e/2013-10-01_00161.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20131117060540

You know there were more.

Yeah she was shipwrecked with a crew in the first game. Hence more supporting characters. The other games is mostly just Jonah with a SMALL few instances of someone elee

Ah... Well, they already lost me by that point.
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only one i played was Rise and I found it very mediocre. basically felt like a bunch of guys got together in a board room, yelled out as many modern gaming tropes as possible, and then forced the devs to cram them all in somehow.

acrobatic platforming that looks impressive but you're pretty much doing nothing but pressing A when you get to a ledge? check

cover based shootouts? check

crafting? check

unnecessary skill trees? check

boring fetch/gather sidequests to pad out the game and give the illusion of depth? check

ridiculous story that takes itself way too serious? check

never-ending sensation that you're still in the tutorial? check

etc etc

pretty much the only thing i really liked about the game were the challenge tombs, but there were only a few of them. not saying Rise was a bad game but it was a snooze. probably wouldnt play another in the franchise
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Darmik posted...

lol remember that nerd who gave his life up for Lara in the first game? Did anyone give a shit during that scene?

The guy that looked like Harry Potter? That was great. Literally died to get a girl's attention.
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Lol I vaguely remember. I enjoyed this triology. Truthfully I prefer the first reboot but I enjoy this new triology. In terms of making Lara seem human and making me feel like shes an actual archeologist, Shadow did the best job. There was a lot of...um...gruesome stuff happening but she didnt really cast judgement and just offered a scientific explanation of things. They did a really good job, especially adding a native and spanish language to the game.

Romulox28 posted...

only one i played was Rise and I found it very mediocre. basically felt like a bunch of guys got together in a board room, yelled out as many modern gaming tropes as possible, and then forced the devs to cram them all in somehow.

Honestly yeah that's the biggest issue in all three games.
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Whatever.
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Darmik posted...

Her old style just matched what the visuals could accomplish at the time. I don't think the cartoony look would hold up that well these days.

She's fine in the Lara Croft games as well.

I don't see how she looks anything like Katniss outside of using a bow.

I don't think her design was ever cartoony, despite the limited hardware of her earliest titles. And it's not like I'm referring specifically to the PS1 days.

I'm referring to her character design up to and including Guardian of Light. The Anniversary remake, Underworld, etc. The style of clothes, the dual pistols, etc was a more interesting and fun design than her more subdued reboot.

Reboot Lara does look an awful lot like Katniss. Basic but pretty white girl with brown hair in a ponytail. Using a bow clenched it. Hell, if you aged Ellie from TLoU up 5 or 6 years, they'd look very similar too (TLoU2 seems to avert this by giving Ellie a haircut).

If we actually had more female protagonists in games, I suspect we'd get the same phenomenon we had with male protagonists being mostly white dudes with short brown hair.
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they may be old but i prefer Anniversary, Legend, Underworld
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Kelystic posted...

they may be old but i prefer Anniversary, Legend, Underworld

I bought all 3 for a steal during the last sale. Do I play them by release date or chronologically?
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St0rmFury posted...

Kelystic posted...

they may be old but i prefer Anniversary, Legend, Underworld

I bought all 3 for a steal during the last sale. Do I play them by release date or chronologically?

release order

legend, anniversary, underworld

but anniversary is only referrenced a little (if any).
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Anniversary is basically a remake of the 1st TR, right?
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St0rmFury posted...

Kelystic posted...

they may be old but i prefer Anniversary, Legend, Underworld

I bought all 3 for a steal during the last sale. Do I play them by release date or chronologically?

the answer to this question for every game series ever made is by release date.
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St0rmFury posted...

Anniversary is basically a remake of the 1st TR, right?

yes
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Esrac posted...

Darmik posted...

Esrac posted...

Should've left Lara alone. She was fine the way she was before the reboot.

I think her design is actually pretty good. But they just missed the mark with whatever character development they were trying to tell throughout the series.

In Shadow she shows more personality in her flashback as a child compared to anywhere else in the series. Some of the side quests also show a better side to her that maybe they should have placed a better focus on.

I think her redesign is kind of boring. Ms. Brownhair McPonytail. Nothing about her really seems to stand out. She could easily be confused with Katniss Everdeen. Compared to her old style that was, if nothing else, fun.

admit it, you just missed the boobs.
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She has an awful voice actress. Poor British accent, every line sounds stilted and flat.
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Ricemills posted...

admit it, you just missed the boobs.

Even then, reboot Lara still has some nice boobs.
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Lara is always going to be a brunette with some sort of ponytail. Modern Lara wouldn't look out of place with the shorts and dual pistols. Hell that's pretty much what she does look like in those Lara Croft games.

The biggest change is she doesn't have that cartoony face, huge bust and comically thin waist.

I think they've done a good job updating Lara for each generation.

I still don't really see how Lara, Ellie and Katniss all look alike. I could tell which is which solely by their silhouettes.
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LightningAce11 posted...

She has an awful voice actress. Poor British accent, every line sounds stilted and flat.

Voice actress was great...what are you talking about...you know shes actually British right?

The emotional range of the voice acting was really limited making it feel flat. Now I still have to play the third one so i don't know if it is any better in it but she lacks some real emotions. Be it horrified or amazed.

Seriously, the events of the first game should have traumatized her. The second one should have been about overcoming the trauma.

</random thoughts>
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