Current Events > A solution to the problem of long workdays, unequal power, corruption: Communism

(+) Yeah! (+)

Arcvalons posted...

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

Weren't you a Trumpist, @PiOverlord?

I voted for Trump, yes.

But he's like the opposite of communism, like you couldn't be as far from communism.

As I said, the progression must be stable, and Trump will work as a turning point. Many will finally accept socialist ideals.
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Calwings posted...

As someone whose father and grandparents suffered through and managed to escape Fidel Castro's communist dictatorship in Cuba, I (and my entire family) would like to ever so kindly tell TC to fuck off. Communism doesn't work, and it almost never happens without becoming a dictatorship and the great majority of people being screwed over.

Those were all reactionary movements.

There hasn't been many attempts at it, and I already stated how a properly organized communist society can work.
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Riot in the streets and beat people, Kyurem? I can't do that right now. I'm sober.
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wheres ur commitment to revolution man smh

Mocking things I never said. I specifically am against revolutions.
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@PiOverlord you're doing the world a favour together we will defeat capitalism once and for all

PiOverlord posted...

Mocking things I never said. I specifically am against revolutions.

i was talking to my good comrade in post 104 i apologize

If I am going to riot and beat people, I will need lots of vodka, comrade, and I've yet to begin imbibing.
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PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

Weren't you a Trumpist, @PiOverlord?

I voted for Trump, yes.

But he's like the opposite of communism, like you couldn't be as far from communism.

As I said, the progression must be stable, and Trump will work as a turning point. Many will finally accept socialist ideals.

???

https://imgur.com/ZZDU90Q

???

Calwings posted...

As someone whose father and grandparents suffered through and managed to escape Fidel Castro's communist dictatorship in Cuba, I (and my entire family) would like to ever so kindly tell TC to fuck off. Communism doesn't work, and it almost never happens without becoming a dictatorship and the great majority of people being screwed over.

Life under Castro for the average Cuban was better than it ever had hope to be under Batista.
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Arcvalons posted...

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

Weren't you a Trumpist, @PiOverlord?

I voted for Trump, yes.

But he's like the opposite of communism, like you couldn't be as far from communism.

As I said, the progression must be stable, and Trump will work as a turning point. Many will finally accept socialist ideals.

???

https://imgur.com/ZZDU90Q

???

I am not secretly trying to incite civil wars. I want a peaceful transition from Capitalism to Communism.
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what the fuck is up with flat earthers and communists becoming so much more common in 20-fucking-18

silentwing26x posted...

what the fuck is up with flat earthers and communists becoming so much more common in 20-fucking-18

One has no evidence while the other has reasonable models that point to how it can be an effective system.

Not comparable at all.
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PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

what the fuck is up with flat earthers and communists becoming so much more common in 20-fucking-18

One has no evidence while the other has reasonable models that point to how it can be an effective system.

Not comparable at all.

uh no they're exactly the same type of thing

silentwing26x posted...

PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

what the fuck is up with flat earthers and communists becoming so much more common in 20-fucking-18

One has no evidence while the other has reasonable models that point to how it can be an effective system.

Not comparable at all.

uh no they're exactly the same type of thing

Sounds like something a flat-earther would say.
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silentwing26x posted...

PiOverlord posted...

silentwing26x posted...

what the fuck is up with flat earthers and communists becoming so much more common in 20-fucking-18

One has no evidence while the other has reasonable models that point to how it can be an effective system.

Not comparable at all.

uh no they're exactly the same type of thing

Imagine still being a capitalist bootlicker in 2018
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I get it, Capitalism worked extremely well in the beginning, and in the middle.

These days...Capitalism is holding us back. We could be so much more...yet we are restrained by profits.
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imagine getting baited by a low tier poster like piol for over 100 posts

it's worrisome that people still think communism will finally work. tc, when AI comes and communism still fails, what then?
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deltadan posted...

it's worrisome that people still think communism will finally work. tc, when AI comes and communism still fails, what then?

Throwing out unrealistic scenarios isn't worth discussing.

If Communism doesn't work with an A.I-centered government, then that will have to do with the basic functioning of said A.I, and the ideals that need to be implemented weren't properly placed.
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https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/34-years-ago-a-kgb-defector-described-america-today

silentwing26x posted...

https://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/34-years-ago-a-kgb-defector-described-america-today

As I said in the other topic, Stalinism isn't what we should go for.

A slow transition, with safeguards in place, and a proper A.I-centered government will work much more efficiently than what any human could hope to do.
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The point of that link was to show how pointless and beyond reason literal communists are.

You could shower them with evidence on how poverty is rapidly declining across the entire globe, how the standard of living has skyrocketed in the last 150 years, how access to food and clean water is increasing, how disease is much less of a risk now, how people are happier on average than ever, how competing for profit enriches the consumer's life, etc, but the communist has shut his mind off to logic and evidence and is instead wrapped up in a delusional religion.

>_> expecting enough people to do hard work to fill a need for altruism alone is an unrealistic scenario

I'm talking perfect A.I. and it still doesn't work. It will never work. The reason 70% of people do any hard work is for their own benefit. If the hardworkers aren't gaining anything more than those that do nothing, then nothing will be done.
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silentwing26x posted...

The point of that link was to show how pointless and beyond reason literal communists are.

You could shower them with evidence on how poverty is rapidly declining across the entire globe, how the standard of living has skyrocketed in the last 150 years, how access to food and clean water is increasing, how disease is much less of a risk now, how people are happier on average than ever, how competing for profit enriches the consumer's life, etc, but the communist has shut his mind off to logic and evidence and is instead wrapped up in a delusional religion.

The countries that are the happiest are the ones that implement socialist ideals. Countries like America are far behind.

deltadan posted...

>_> expecting enough people to do hard work to fill a need for altruism alone is an unrealistic scenario

I'm talking perfect A.I. and it still doesn't work. It will never work. The reason 70% of people do any hard work is for their own benefit. If the hardworkers aren't gaining anything more than those that do nothing, then nothing will be done.

In the future, A.I and machinery will have replaced many of us in the workplace, so even if we get lazy, it will still be fine. The whole purpose is to reduce our worktime to zero, so we can pursue our own interests.
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i mean TC is either a really crappy troll or a very delusional underage user who simply doesn't know better

silentwing26x posted...

i mean TC is either a really crappy troll or a very delusional underage user who simply doesn't know better

You are either a brainwashed person or a brainwashed person. Capitalism is not the only solution. There was a time before Capitalism and there will be a time after. Keep being paranoid though and sticking in the 50's.
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as long as a communist group preserves individual freedom, I'm for it. "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a good mantra

the trouble is, when the politically "enlightened" splinter off and form their own class to supplant the bourgeoisie, how will they react when challenged?

I support communism too, or at least a socialist society.

It's socialism or death by capitalism-provoked climate change.

Arcvalons posted...

I support communism too, or at least a socialist society.

It's socialism or death by capitalism-provoked climate change.

Companies care most for profit and short-term sustainability. The leaders on top need to show results now, even if hurts them in the future.

It isn't in the nature of a business to care for the welfare of the people, not that would be mutually exclusive. That is why we need a stronger government that works for us, not businesses.
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PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

I support communism too, or at least a socialist society.

It's socialism or death by capitalism-provoked climate change.

Companies care most for profit and short-term sustainability. The leaders on top need to show results now, even if hurts them in the future.

It isn't in the nature of a business to care for the welfare of the people, not that would be mutually exclusive. That is why we need a stronger government that works for us, not businesses.

Absolutely, though I think policies that incentivize cooperatives should be encouraged too, to begin the shift of power away from capitalists in the long term. Regulations are just not enough. Look at the US right now in which capitalists take over the agencies that are supposed to regulate them, such as the FCC, it even has a name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

I support communism too, or at least a socialist society.

It's socialism or death by capitalism-provoked climate change.

Companies care most for profit and short-term sustainability. The leaders on top need to show results now, even if hurts them in the future.

It isn't in the nature of a business to care for the welfare of the people, not that would be mutually exclusive. That is why we need a stronger government that works for us, not businesses.

It's almost like companies act like the humans that run them. The core fault of communism is the belief that those in power won't succumb to their own list for power and wealth.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which

Trade the rich business executive with the rich government bureaucrat. In the end, they look and act the same.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

I support communism too, or at least a socialist society.

It's socialism or death by capitalism-provoked climate change.

Companies care most for profit and short-term sustainability. The leaders on top need to show results now, even if hurts them in the future.

It isn't in the nature of a business to care for the welfare of the people, not that would be mutually exclusive. That is why we need a stronger government that works for us, not businesses.

It's almost like companies act like the humans that run them. The core fault of communism is the belief that those in power won't succumb to their own list for power and wealth.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which

Trade the rich business executive with the rich government bureaucrat. In the end, they look and act the same.

that's why vertical hierarchies of authority need to be minimalized

PiOverlord posted...

TES_Nut posted...

TC is a fucking psycho that knows jack shit about economics

Do you mind showing your credentials about knowledge of economic structures?

You probably have none, or are so biased towards Capitalist societies that you refuse to see that other systems work much better.

No other system has ever worked better than capitalism to create wealth and prosperity and private ownership when joined with a free republic form of government.

Socialism and communism SPENDS what Capitalism has EARNED. History is the proof.

That is why there is book burning and re-education camps and intolerance for conservatism. Leftists fear conservative thinking because they can't counter common sense and Conservatives fear leftist intimidation and violence against those that leftists oppose.

EVERY new generation of leftist believe every past society has failed at socialism or communism because it was the fault of the leaders, not the fault of the socialist/communist doctrine. Things would be different THIS time if THEY (or some AI) could be in charge.
Unfortunately many immature people yearn to be taken care of, MORE than they yearn to be free to PERSUE happiness through their own efforts and hard work. Most students and young adult today have little understanding of US of A history regarding Socialism/communal distribution of production VS Capitalism.
The very first pilgrims to settle in N. America tried socialism. They nearly all died in the first 2 years. Each person was expected to work to their ability and put what they produced into the common store. Each person received from the common store what they needed to live. It didn't take long for the single men to realize that married men with children were benefiting more than they were from their labor. They resented it. They became lazy, and less productive. The colony began starving to death from lack of food production. The colonists leaders decided to try an experiment. Every man was given their own small parcel of land that they could work and keep all that they produced. They could do with the produce as they saw fit, eat it, sell it or trade it for things they wanted or needed.
The first harvest had such an abundance that the colony began to thrive. People had extra to sell or trade for goods. True fact, find a true history book and look it up, if you can still find one.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

I support communism too, or at least a socialist society.

It's socialism or death by capitalism-provoked climate change.

Companies care most for profit and short-term sustainability. The leaders on top need to show results now, even if hurts them in the future.

It isn't in the nature of a business to care for the welfare of the people, not that would be mutually exclusive. That is why we need a stronger government that works for us, not businesses.

It's almost like companies act like the humans that run them. The core fault of communism is the belief that those in power won't succumb to their own list for power and wealth.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which

Trade the rich business executive with the rich government bureaucrat. In the end, they look and act the same.

A.I will have no need for such power or wealth.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

I support communism too, or at least a socialist society.

It's socialism or death by capitalism-provoked climate change.

Companies care most for profit and short-term sustainability. The leaders on top need to show results now, even if hurts them in the future.

It isn't in the nature of a business to care for the welfare of the people, not that would be mutually exclusive. That is why we need a stronger government that works for us, not businesses.

It's almost like companies act like the humans that run them. The core fault of communism is the belief that those in power won't succumb to their own list for power and wealth.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which

Trade the rich business executive with the rich government bureaucrat. In the end, they look and act the same.

lol leave it to Coffeebeanz to be a total non-comrade about this smh
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

PiOverlord posted...

Arcvalons posted...

I support communism too, or at least a socialist society.

It's socialism or death by capitalism-provoked climate change.

Companies care most for profit and short-term sustainability. The leaders on top need to show results now, even if hurts them in the future.

It isn't in the nature of a business to care for the welfare of the people, not that would be mutually exclusive. That is why we need a stronger government that works for us, not businesses.

It's almost like companies act like the humans that run them. The core fault of communism is the belief that those in power won't succumb to their own list for power and wealth.

The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which

Trade the rich business executive with the rich government bureaucrat. In the end, they look and act the same.

lol leave it to Coffeebeanz to be a total non-comrade about this smh

Coffeebeanz makes a valid point.
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KJBDEFENDER posted...

EVERY new generation of leftist believe every past society has failed at socialism or communism because it was the fault of the leaders, not the fault of the socialist/communist doctrine.

in reality, it's primarily the fault of the US

KJBDEFENDER posted...

The very first pilgrims to settle in N. America tried socialism. They nearly all died in the first 2 years. Each person was expected to work to their ability and put what they produced into the common store. Each person received from the common store what they needed to live. It didn't take long for the single men to realize that married men with children were benefiting more than they were from their labor. They resented it. They became lazy, and less productive. The colony began starving to death from lack of food production. The colonists leaders decided to try an experiment. Every man was given their own small parcel of land that they could work and keep all that they produced. They could do with the produce as they saw fit, eat it, sell it or trade it for things they wanted or needed.
The first harvest had such an abundance that the colony began to thrive. People had extra to sell or trade for goods. True fact, find a true history book and look it up, if you can still find one.

this is some prager u shit
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averagejoel posted...

KJBDEFENDER posted...

EVERY new generation of leftist believe every past society has failed at socialism or communism because it was the fault of the leaders, not the fault of the socialist/communist doctrine.

in reality, it's primarily the fault of the US

KJBDEFENDER posted...

The very first pilgrims to settle in N. America tried socialism. They nearly all died in the first 2 years. Each person was expected to work to their ability and put what they produced into the common store. Each person received from the common store what they needed to live. It didn't take long for the single men to realize that married men with children were benefiting more than they were from their labor. They resented it. They became lazy, and less productive. The colony began starving to death from lack of food production. The colonists leaders decided to try an experiment. Every man was given their own small parcel of land that they could work and keep all that they produced. They could do with the produce as they saw fit, eat it, sell it or trade it for things they wanted or needed.
The first harvest had such an abundance that the colony began to thrive. People had extra to sell or trade for goods. True fact, find a true history book and look it up, if you can still find one.

this is some prager u shit

Prager U is primo s**t.
Your signature says all we need to know about your level of intellect.
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Communism is the best way to ensure innovation is stifled, everyone quits working and people starve to death.
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Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Communism is the best way to ensure innovation is stifled, everyone quits working and people starve to death.

Yes, because every invention was because of Capitalism, and not because people have a genuine desire to leave a lasting legacy in the world.
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PiOverlord posted...

Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Communism is the best way to ensure innovation is stifled, everyone quits working and people starve to death.

Yes, because every invention was because of Capitalism, and not because people have a genuine desire to leave a lasting legacy in the world.

Im glad you've come to your senses since making such a silly topic. Also I'm sure you have an example or two that are altruistic or inquisitive. No you're not going to get a gotcha moment for using the word every.
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Even capitalists hate capitalism. It's self destructive. Why do corporations do everything they can to operate above the market? Whether it's by establishing a monopoly, monopsony, or an oligarchy, it's more profitable than actually competing in a free market.

Obligatory

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Paragon21XX posted...

Obligatory

I mean, all of those places did not have proper safeguards, were unorganized, and were based on reactionary movements so the leaders they put in charge had no business being there.
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PiOverlord posted...

Paragon21XX posted...

Obligatory

I mean, all of those places did not have proper safeguards, were unorganized, and were based on reactionary movements so the leaders they put in charge had no business being there.

ROFLMAO, once again, the argument that if only we had the right leaders.
When you wish upon a star, all your dreams come true.
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PiOverlord posted...

Paragon21XX posted...

Obligatory

I mean, all of those places did not have proper safeguards, were unorganized, and were based on reactionary movements so the leaders they put in charge had no business being there.

20th time is the charm? As if. Sometimes the best thing to do is call the whole thing a bust and fix the problems in the current system instead of trying to salvage something that's fundamentally flawed at its core.
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QueenCarly posted...

Calwings posted...

As someone whose father and grandparents suffered through and managed to escape Fidel Castro's communist dictatorship in Cuba, I (and my entire family) would like to ever so kindly tell TC to fuck off. Communism doesn't work, and it almost never happens without becoming a dictatorship and the great majority of people being screwed over.

Life under Castro for the average Cuban was better than it ever had hope to be under Batista.

Haha.

These are gold. Life under Castro was $18 a month, a months worth of food (often without meat) and you have no soap or chance of upward mobility.

I like how TC opens with the yeah but that wasnt communism defense in the first post. Also how life is so great in communist Cuba when everyone can spell their own name and have family members in the US ship them soap and household necessities they literally cannot get in their communist country.

Everyone wants to leave a communist country despite living in a utopia, but that uptopia wasnt really communism so thats why it didnt work this time.
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