Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 184: Torn NATO

(+) Yeah! (+)

Inviso posted...

The active Republican platform has become increasingly hostile to liberals

agree with this, though this wasn't really the point i was making.

last time i was arguing about this with red sox he claimed that "'social justice warrior' isn't an insult," which is laughable. he also claimed that "trump never calls anyone dumb," which is blatantly false if you look at his statements about "dumb as a rock mika." and i didn't even mention how often people on the right call anyone left of center "communists." i think being called a "communist" is as bad of an insult as being called a "nazi," and i've been called a communist by muffin a million times.

red sox isn't wrong when he states that sometimes liberals are too harsh on their opponents, but whenever someone points out that conservatives are just as bad in this regard he sugarcoats their behavior or ignores it. that's extremely annoying.
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Conservatives LOVE calling people communists... and yet never have any clue what a communist is. Other than a dirty word their grandfather taught them from the McCarthy era.
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That's bizarrely funny considering there are literal Nazis running as Republicans nowadays

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_J._Jones
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i think being called a "communist" is as bad of an insult as being called a "nazi,"

hard disagree and i think it only helps nazis to see it this way, but it's certainly used this way by people on the right (which is the bigger point anyway)
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New mueller indictments, and a rosenstein news conference
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

red sox isn't wrong when he states that sometimes liberals are too harsh on their opponents, but whenever someone points out that conservatives are just as bad in this regard he sugarcoats their behavior or ignores it. that's extremely annoying.

No shit. He's not interested in honest debate or conversation.

Did you learn literally nothing from last time people asked you to not bother with him? Seems like you were too busy with your whataboutism tantrum to understand why people were telling you not to respond to him.
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Holy fuck. Scotsman doesn't hold back.
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1017598288302870528?s=19

https://s.amsu.ng/jRW4JZGp1U9N

Nothing new there but surprising and kind of gratifying to see the national paper going so hard.
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https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/status/1017805186964836352

From the indictment:

"The conspirators, posing as Guccifer 2.0, wrote to a person who was in regular contact with senior members of the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump" https://t.co/Qs8yLZyQaU

There's also evidence that congressional candidates were in contact with and conspiring with guccifer.

"No collusion"
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Wow that's...FAIRLY damning
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Also note that rosenstein informed trump of this all a week ago. None of it is a surprise to him today.
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https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1017802907620663296

Does "conspired" preclude attempting/actually doing?
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There's a lot of "wow" news in these indictments.

https://twitter.com/peterjhasson/status/1017805935400706052

tl;dr: A candidate for US Congress requested and received stolen documents of opponent.
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https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/hours-after-bashing-british-leader-may-trump-praises-her-n891131

Still, Trump also repeated praise for Boris Johnson, who resigned this week as May's foreign minister and is seen as a power rival within her own conservative party.

"I said he'd be a great prime minister," Trump said. "He's been very nice to me. He's been saying very nice things about me as president. I think he thinks I'm doing a great job. I am doing a great job, that I can tell you, just in case you haven't noticed. Boris Johnson I think would be a great prime minister.

This makes me roll my eyes harder than anything else I've heard today.
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Trump posted...

I think he thinks I'm doing a great job.

The uncertainty here just kills me.
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xp1337 posted...

There's a lot of "wow" news in these indictments.

https://twitter.com/peterjhasson/status/1017805935400706052

tl;dr: A candidate for US Congress requested and received stolen documents of opponent.

The extent of this is shocking me and I already had a pretty dismal opinion of current events.
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Eddv posted...

The extent of this is shocking me and I already had a pretty dismal opinion of current events.

I figured a lot of this to be the case before, but yeah, it's quite sobering to have it all laid out by the DOJ like this. It's one thing to think it, it's another to have it stated like this.
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More *thinkingemoji* stuff from the indictments:

https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1017813203256930304

tl;dr: The day the indictment says "on or about" was the first time that a third-party provider used by Clinton's office was targeted was the very same day that Trump infamously had his "If you're listening I hope you find the 30,000 missing emails" statement.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

ALSO my post doesnt even preclude Red Sox from having good reasons to vote Republican. Although I dont think he even voted for Trump IIRC.

My criticism is with how disingenuous this reasoning is for why Trump won. It is extremely common for never Trumpers and you hear Ben Shapiro in particular espouse it many times. Trump isnt Republicans fault! No sir, it had nothing to do with the toxicity of talk radio, years of fear mongering, embracing the tea party and killing off many moderates, hysteria amongst voters, latent racism or sexism within a small but sizable contingent of their voters etc etc etc.

No, it was because of Democrats! It was because of these forty moronic teenagers and their guy fawkes mask. It was this one woman in some no name school at Portland that said white people are dumb. It was this random bakery in San Francisco that sells cakes with penises on them.

It is a way of passing off their worst mistake onto the people who didnt even vote for him. Obviously republicans have good reasons for voting republicans. Democrats hurt my feelings and I need some warm milk is not one of them, and it deserves to be called out.

Whoa, so a couple things. I was talking about why Trump won, not why someone should vote for Trump. That said, I don't think you have any right to judge others for the motivations for their votes, or at least, that judgment is meaningless in a democracy. "Democrats hurt my feelings" is absolutely a reason people voted for Trump, and I single it out as a important cause because it is something within the power of Democrats to change. Seph is voting Republican because of self-interest - this cannot be changed by Democrats (short of changing their platform to call for even bigger tax cuts than the GOP). Not being mean is entirely within the control of Democrats and if we are talking about practical things they can do to win, this is what they should be focused on.
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Eddv, why do you think the EU being around is good for the US? How about the Warsaw Pact? What about if China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, the Philippines, etc. formed a unified trading bloc?
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

Inviso posted...

The active Republican platform has become increasingly hostile to liberals

agree with this, though this wasn't really the point i was making.

last time i was arguing about this with red sox he claimed that "'social justice warrior' isn't an insult," which is laughable. he also claimed that "trump never calls anyone dumb," which is blatantly false if you look at his statements about "dumb as a rock mika." and i didn't even mention how often people on the right call anyone left of center "communists." i think being called a "communist" is as bad of an insult as being called a "nazi," and i've been called a communist by muffin a million times.

red sox isn't wrong when he states that sometimes liberals are too harsh on their opponents, but whenever someone points out that conservatives are just as bad in this regard he sugarcoats their behavior or ignores it. that's extremely annoying.

I said Trump doesn't call people from other countries dumb. He regularly calls American Democrats dumb. I think this Theresa May thing is the closest he's come to calling someone from another country dumb.
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GuessMyUserName posted...

"cut off from EU or cut off from the US" is such an immensely losing proposition for the US

The US keeps pulling themselves from the table forcing other nations to create even closer ties to the competitors they're supposedly worried about

It's amazing. Even just here only within Canada he's actually he actually managed to unite every party behind Trudeau which is honestly mindblowing with all the shit flinging that comes flying across from all 3 major parties in parliament like the elbowgate shitshow.

It would be dumb, except that Britain put itself in this position by voting for Brexit. They committed to removing themselves from the EU without getting their replacement deal with the US or others in place first. Well, someone who treats bargaining as a zero sum game like Trump is going to pounce whenever he sees weakness, and Britain has a very weak hand right now.
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red sox 777 posted...

Whoa, so a couple things. I was talking about why Trump won, not why someone should vote for Trump. That said, I don't think you have any right to judge others for the motivations for their votes, or at least, that judgment is meaningless in a democracy. "Democrats hurt my feelings" is absolutely a reason people voted for Trump, and I single it out as a important cause because it is something within the power of Democrats to change. Seph is voting Republican because of self-interest - this cannot be changed by Democrats (short of changing their platform to call for even bigger tax cuts than the GOP). Not being mean is entirely within the control of Democrats and if we are talking about practical things they can do to win, this is what they should be focused on.

It's the perfect plan aside from all the evidence in the past that it doesn't work at all!
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red sox 777 posted...

I said Trump doesn't call people from other countries dumb.

ok, so...? is this supposed to be the deciding factor that makes conservatives so much more civil and tolerant in debates than liberals? "trump doesn't call people from other countries dumb"?
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

red sox 777 posted...

I said Trump doesn't call people from other countries dumb.

ok, so...? is this supposed to be the deciding factor that makes conservatives so much more civil and tolerant in debates than liberals? "trump doesn't call people from other countries dumb"?

The context of this was a debate about how conservatives can feel that Trump is not racist/nativist.
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red sox 777 posted...

Not being mean is entirely within the control of Democrats and if we are talking about practical things they can do to win, this is what they should be focused on.

we've been over this before, but this isn't what democrats should be focused on at all. tolerating racism, sexism, homophobia and nazism (what you call "not being mean") is NOT acceptable.
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I think I'mma just block Lasa too
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

red sox 777 posted...

Not being mean is entirely within the control of Democrats and if we are talking about practical things they can do to win, this is what they should be focused on.

we've been over this before, but this isn't what democrats should be focused on at all. tolerating racism, sexism, homophobia and nazism (what you call "not being mean") is NOT acceptable.

It's the inability to see people as individual people and only as part of a group that is the root of intolerance.
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Lasa ffs make another topic. This is like slogging through Ulti posts in Hearthstone topic.
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At least take it to Chris' topic he seems to invite this stuff.
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red sox 777 posted...

It's the inability to see people as individual people and only as part of a group that is the root of intolerance.

what does this even mean?
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trdl23 posted...

Lasa ffs make another topic.

tried that before and it didn't work as red sox just kept posting here. and no, i'm not going to post in chris's stupid topic.

protip for people who have a problem with my posts: manually ignore them or put me on ignore. good luck!
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

red sox 777 posted...

It's the inability to see people as individual people and only as part of a group that is the root of intolerance.

what does this even mean?

Intolerance is when you fixate on a trait you dislike, and when you see someone with this trait, you become blind to everything else about them. For instance, suppose I disliked the Yankees baseball team. If I decided all Yankees fans were bad people, I would be intolerant. If I refused to hire Yankees fans, I would be engaging in discrimination (albeit legal in the US).

If I condemned anyone who lives in New York, just because there's a good chance they are a Yankees fan, that would be analogous to what Democrats are doing now with their sweeping condemnations of a quarter of the country.
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xp1337 posted...

Eddv posted...

The extent of this is shocking me and I already had a pretty dismal opinion of current events.

I figured a lot of this to be the case before, but yeah, it's quite sobering to have it all laid out by the DOJ like this. It's one thing to think it, it's another to have it stated like this.

Same. This is sobering as fuck, and i already suspected it was bad.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-pence-family-gas-stations-indiana-20180713-story.html

Interesting read on how Mike Pence got wealthy in the first place and the effect it has had on some small towns in Indiana.
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red sox 777 posted...

If I condemned anyone who lives in New York, just because there's a good chance they are a Yankees fan, that would be analogous to what Democrats are doing now with their sweeping condemnations of a quarter of the country.

to say that the majority of democrats are doing this is ridiculous.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

red sox 777 posted...

If I condemned anyone who lives in New York, just because there's a good chance they are a Yankees fan, that would be analogous to what Democrats are doing now with their sweeping condemnations of a quarter of the country.

to say that the majority of democrats are doing this is ridiculous.

It only takes a fairly small number of loud people to swing the election. And one of them was the actual candidate.
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red sox 777 posted...

And one of them was the actual candidate.

oh my god are we still doing this?

people have explained a million times to you how hillary was NOT "calling half the country deplorables" and you're still spouting this nonsense.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

red sox 777 posted...

And one of them was the actual candidate.

oh my god are we still doing this?

people have explained a million times to you how hillary was NOT "calling half the country deplorables" and you're still spouting this nonsense.

Reg posted...

Mr Lasastryke posted...

red sox isn't wrong when he states that sometimes liberals are too harsh on their opponents, but whenever someone points out that conservatives are just as bad in this regard he sugarcoats their behavior or ignores it. that's extremely annoying.

No shit. He's not interested in honest debate or conversation.

Did you learn literally nothing from last time people asked you to not bother with him? Seems like you were too busy with your whataboutism tantrum to understand why people were telling you not to respond to him.

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given that nobody has provided a decent counterargument to my "whataboutism tantrum" to date, i think i'll just keep responding to red sox.
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HashtagSEP posted...

I think I'mma just block Lasa too

Yeah, I don't even have Ulti blocked, but I think I need to block Lasa and redsox to keep these topics readable.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

given that nobody has provided a decent counterargument to my "whataboutism tantrum" to date, i think i'll just keep responding to red sox.

Selective reading and willful ignorance lets you conveniently ignore facts and tell lies about who I tell to fuck off and who I ask people not to bother with.

You're legitimately no better than Ulti.
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There's obviously a disagreement on how Hillary's statement was taken here. No need to reopen that as it was discussed at length before.
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Reg posted...

Selective reading and willful ignorance lets you conveniently ignore facts and tell lies about who I tell to fuck off and who I ask people not to bother with.

you've never given me so much crap about arguing with sephyg as you have about me arguing with red sox. i save all the topics so i can easily back this up.
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red sox 777 posted...

There's obviously a disagreement on how Hillary's statement was taken here.

i'm talking about what the statement was, not how it was taken. it was obviously taken as "OMG SHE THINKS HALF THE COUNTRY IS RACIST SEXIST ETC." that's pretty clear, looking at the response to the statmenet.
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Does it have to always be a counterargument with you, Spock? Why can't you just do a nice thing for people and stop responding for other people's sake? It's been explained to you why it's a problem, it's been explained to you why they don't see ignoring (manually or otherwise) as a solution. And whether you disagree is irrelevant - they don't see ignoring as a solution so what you think doesn't matter, because this is about their discomfort.

You aren't going to be convinced through logic, and you would relish engaging in a topic-long debate over it, I'm sure. So why not think of it more as a sacrifice you make for the sake of many people who have asked you over and over to stop?
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XIII_rocks posted...

Why can't you just do a nice thing for people

Abolish NICE
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XIII_rocks posted...

Why can't you just do a nice thing for people and stop responding for other people's sake?

why can't other people do a nice thing for me and stop responding to sephyg? not sure why i need to be the single nice person in this topic.
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I can't remember Reg ever once making a substantive post. He responds to 80% of my posts with flaming. Not worth talking to him.
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I would also like to mention that I finally got the topic title pun.

i am dumb
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

why can't other people do a nice thing for me and stop responding to sephyg? not sure why i need to be the single nice person in this topic.

What the fuck how are you turning THIS into an argument

And I have said that before for what it's worth. Compromise on both sides is good. No responses to Seph or red sox is great for me.

But since red sox is the topical one right now, make the first step!
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