Current Events > I just finished watch The Last Jedi. Why did people not like it?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I understand it had some flaws, but I'm curious as to what everyone else thought was the problems with it.

So, shoot. Lay it on me!
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Nerds and racist and sexists
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The second act, Rose, SJW messages, lack of character development, lack of story development, forced humor, etc.
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@au_gold posted...

The second act, Rose, SJW messages, lack of character development, lack of story development, forced humor, etc.

Sp, I'll agree with you on lack of story development (it felt like there was just a shit ton of deus ex machina going down), but please, explain your other points to me as I don't understand.
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I have no problem with Rose but it just had a lot of dumb shit going on. It's in no way a terrible movie but it's also in no way a good one.

My biggest gripe had to be what it did with Luke. Magic Leia was dumb as fuck but it was brief and therefore easy enough to ignore.
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Looks like it's time for today's TLJ topic
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@CanuckCowboy posted...

I have no problem with Rose but it just had a lot of dumb shit going on. It's in no way a terrible movie but it's also in no way a good one.

My biggest gripe had to be what it did with Luke. Magic Leia was dumb as fuck but it was brief and therefore easy enough to ignore.

I whole heartedly agree with Magic Leia. That was dumb as fuck. She would have frozen to death/turned inside out/suffocated/imploded from the concussion. How they treated that was dumb as balls.

@UnholyMudcrab posted...

Looks like it's time for today's TLJ topic

Well, considering I was able to stay away from spoilers and topics about it until I watched today, I guess it is. I was just curious as I heard a bunch of hate towards it and I wanna know people's opinions on it.
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Horrible
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@muchdran posted...

Horrible

Why?
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au_gold posted...

The second act, Rose, SJW messages, lack of character development, lack of story development, forced humor, etc.

Mother inly valid thing you mentioned was lack of character and story development
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Yoda's force lightning
Dark side power and plus he's a ghost wtf
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Eat More Beef posted...

Sp, I'll agree with you on lack of story development (it felt like there was just a shit ton of deus ex machina going down), but please, explain your other points to me as I don't understand.

*minor spoilers ahead*

Well, the second act largely takes place on the casino planet and the goal is to find the master codebreaker. But that has absolutely no bearing on the plot. They dont even find the codebreaker, and when Finn and Rose do return, theyre immediately betrayed and captured, which makes a good 45-minute chunk of the movie absolutely worthless.

Rose was just pointless as a character. It felt like they just wanted to fill a diversity quota (chubby Asian woman), which would be okay if she was integral to the plot. But shes only there to serve as SJW pandering. For example, after the casino fiasco, they go back to free all the space horses from captivity and Rose says, Now it was worth it, or something to that extent. As if Star Wars needs a disclaimer saying that animal abuse is bad. Again, it has no bearing on the plot whatsoever and its just really pathetic pandering toward animal lovers. Then theres her telling Finn, Its not about fighting what you hate. Its about saving what you love, or whatever, which makes no sense in the context of the scene since the resistance wouldve been obliterated had Luke not shown up. Also, it completely undermines the one act of heroism Finn had in the entire movie.

The forced humor is hard to miss. Watching it in theaters was an interesting experiment because the audience chuckled at the first few jokes (Poe prank calling General Hux, Luke casually tossing his lightsaber and making sarcastic quips when hes supposed to be a grumpy old man, Finn walking around naked spilling water everywhere, etc.) but the longer the movie went on, the jokes got less and less laughs. And if they didnt force the humor from the get-go, it couldve opened more opportunities for natural situational humor that the OT did so well.

I also dont like what they did with Luke, but people are pretty divisive about that. My biggest problem with the movie is that it doesnt leave anything open for Episode IX. It felt like a finale as opposed to the middle part of a trilogy. Anyway, this is just my opinion of course.
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Everything else aside, it was boring because the premise was such an overused sci-fi TV cliche. I've seen the "we're being chased/out of fuel/hyperspace is useless" thing one too many times.

And then the casino planet was basically an episode of Doctor Who. Companions running around like morons till Benicio Del Doctor saves the day.
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Worlds slowest 2 hour chase scene
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@bulletproofvita posted...

Yoda's force lightning
Dark side power and plus he's a ghost wtf

While I liked the pull of thr darkside power, I'll agree that Yoda showing up as a ghost outta nowhere was weird.

@Goats posted...

weak characters
weak plot
the whole tension with fuel seems forced considering we'd never heard of fuel being a factor before in any of the movies.
the casino fetchquest was boring filler
nothing interesting happens for like 90% of the movie and the fun stuff that does happen is over quickly and swept aside for more boring scenes shitting on our favourite characters skarmory.

I felt the character developmemt was done well (especially taking into account the previous movie).
I liked the plot.
I agree that the fuel thing came outta nowhere. Very true that it had never been an issue in prior movies and was like, an excuse for another shotty deus ex machina.
I liked the casino, although Del Toro's character was very weird.
I dunno what skarmony means.
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@au_gold posted...

Eat More Beef posted...

Sp, I'll agree with you on lack of story development (it felt like there was just a shit ton of deus ex machina going down), but please, explain your other points to me as I don't understand.

*minor spoilers ahead*

Well, the second act largely takes place on the casino planet and the goal is to find the master codebreaker. But that has absolutely no bearing on the plot. They dont even find the codebreaker, and when Finn and Rose do return, theyre immediately betrayed and captured, which makes a good 45-minute chunk of the movie absolutely worthless.

Rose was just pointless as a character. It felt like they just wanted to fill a diversity quota (chubby Asian woman), which would be okay if she was integral to the plot. But shes only there to serve as SJW pandering. For example, after the casino fiasco, they go back to free all the space horses from captivity and Rose says, Now it was worth it, or something to that extent. As if Star Wars needs a disclaimer saying that animal abuse is bad. Again, it has no bearing on the plot whatsoever and its just really pathetic pandering toward animal lovers. Then theres her telling Finn, Its not about fighting what you hate. Its about saving what you love, or whatever, which makes no sense in the context of the scene since the resistance wouldve been obliterated had Luke not shown up. Also, it completely undermines the one act of heroism Finn had in the entire movie.

The forced humor is hard to miss. Watching it in theaters was an interesting experiment because the audience chuckled at the first few jokes (Poe prank calling General Hux, Luke casually tossing his lightsaber and making sarcastic quips when hes supposed to be a grumpy old man, Finn walking around naked spilling water everywhere, etc.) but the longer the movie went on, the jokes got less and less laughs. And if they didnt force the humor from the get-go, it couldve opened more opportunities for natural situational humor that the OT did so well.

I also dont like what they did with Luke, but people are pretty divisive about that. My biggest problem with the movie is that it doesnt leave anything open for Episode IX. It felt like a finale as opposed to the middle part of a trilogy. Anyway, this is just my opinion of course.

Fair enough. I do not agree with your point of Rose being a character that panders to SJWs. What does it matter what race she is, if her character has any/or no baring on the story.
I also disagree with your point about her saying the thing about "saving the thing you love," as I believe it's setting something up for the episode IX.
I will agree that her hatred of the rich/animal cruelty is very heavy handed. It could be dismissed as part of her character, but it did seem like flawed writing.
I found the jokes fine, as I laughed at the vast majority of them, but that's just me.
I will super agree with you on the "finding of the code breaker guy" though, even if it feels to me like they're setting it up for some lando type rope-a-dope. Still, it was an odd sequence that went no where and for sure killed the flow of the movie. It could have been 30 minites shorter, imo.
I didm't mind what they did with Luke, but it did seem like a cheap thing, and also sets the force up to be this super magical end all/be all that was never hinted before.
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I liked Rose's character, just because she's not thin or white she's therefore SJW pandering? what kind of dumb logic is that

Princess Leia floating in space like Mary poppins lol

Makeveli_lives posted...

Nerds and racist and sexists

This.

It had some flaws but it was a solid entry into the franchise. People where mad for a handful of reasons;
- They think having female characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think having minority characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think the First Order should have suicidally jumped into the escaping ship despite them having zero reason to do so.
- They think that Luke should have been the exact same person he was 30 years prior (which is incredibly ironic, given that would make him a blatant Mary Sue, a criticism often levied against Rey).
- They think Luke and Anakin weren't Mary Sues but Rey is (or simply put, they are blind to pre-existing flaws in the franchise because of nostalgia).
- They wanted Poe to be a Mary Sue.
- They wanted Rey to turn out to be Obi-Wan's child, Luke's child, or some other fan theory heavily based on their favorite parts of the EU. This also applies to how they wanted Snoke to turn out to be some EU Sith character.

Dash_Harber posted...

Makeveli_lives posted...

Nerds and racist and sexists

This.

It had some flaws but it was a solid entry into the franchise. People where mad for a handful of reasons;
- They think having female characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think having minority characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think the First Order should have suicidally jumped into the escaping ship despite them having zero reason to do so.
- They think that Luke should have been the exact same person he was 30 years prior (which is incredibly ironic, given that would make him a blatant Mary Sue, a criticism often levied against Rey).
- They think Luke and Anakin weren't Mary Sues but Rey is (or simply put, they are blind to pre-existing flaws in the franchise because of nostalgia).
- They wanted Poe to be a Mary Sue.
- They wanted Rey to turn out to be Obi-Wan's child, Luke's child, or some other fan theory heavily based on their favorite parts of the EU. This also applies to how they wanted Snoke to turn out to be some EU Sith character.

Brevity is key to trolling. For next time bud.
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CanuckCowboy posted...

Dash_Harber posted...

Makeveli_lives posted...

Nerds and racist and sexists

This.

It had some flaws but it was a solid entry into the franchise. People where mad for a handful of reasons;
- They think having female characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think having minority characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think the First Order should have suicidally jumped into the escaping ship despite them having zero reason to do so.
- They think that Luke should have been the exact same person he was 30 years prior (which is incredibly ironic, given that would make him a blatant Mary Sue, a criticism often levied against Rey).
- They think Luke and Anakin weren't Mary Sues but Rey is (or simply put, they are blind to pre-existing flaws in the franchise because of nostalgia).
- They wanted Poe to be a Mary Sue.
- They wanted Rey to turn out to be Obi-Wan's child, Luke's child, or some other fan theory heavily based on their favorite parts of the EU. This also applies to how they wanted Snoke to turn out to be some EU Sith character.

Brevity is key to trolling. For next time bud.

Calling someone a troll because you don't agree with them is a poor way to troll, just for next time, pal.

Dash_Harber posted...

- They think that Luke should have been the exact same person he was 30 years prior

This is the most annoying.

The dudes who went in expecting Luke to be how he was in the EU. (AKA, the Goku of Star Wars, no thanks).
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How come princess Leis wasnt pandering but another strong female lead is?
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Rian Johnson should personally mail me the script so I can wipe my ass with it and all that paper would have finally served a purpose.
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Zack_Attackv1 posted...

Rian Johnson should personally mail me the script so I can wipe my ass with it and all that paper would have finally served a purpose.

Even your ass is too good for that paper.
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CruelBuffalo posted...

I liked Rose's character, just because she's not thin or white she's therefore SJW pandering? what kind of dumb logic is that

Just curious, what did you like about her character?
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Dash_Harber posted...

Makeveli_lives posted...

Nerds and racist and sexists

This.

It had some flaws but it was a solid entry into the franchise. People where mad for a handful of reasons;
- They think having female characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think having minority characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think the First Order should have suicidally jumped into the escaping ship despite them having zero reason to do so.
- They think that Luke should have been the exact same person he was 30 years prior (which is incredibly ironic, given that would make him a blatant Mary Sue, a criticism often levied against Rey).
- They think Luke and Anakin weren't Mary Sues but Rey is (or simply put, they are blind to pre-existing flaws in the franchise because of nostalgia).
- They wanted Poe to be a Mary Sue.
- They wanted Rey to turn out to be Obi-Wan's child, Luke's child, or some other fan theory heavily based on their favorite parts of the EU. This also applies to how they wanted Snoke to turn out to be some EU Sith character.

To be fair even Mark hamill didnt like how luke turned out
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Biofighter55 posted...

To be fair even Mark hamill didnt like how luke turned out

Sure, but that doesn't really justify the argument in itself. Lots of popular parts of Star Wars went against Lucas' vision, as well.

Either way, though, the story wouldn't make any damn sense any other way. If Luke was still leading the charge, the Jedi would be a force to be reckoned with, and they would have been able to deal with the First Order years before. If he went into hiding but still stayed optimistic and hopeful, it would be really weird.

I wouldn't pay more than 10$ for a blu=ray. If Luke didn't want to be found he could have found a place where he couldn't be found. The director admitted the story is just an excuse to getting people over and into one spot, ok but...no spoilers.
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Rather than writing an essay on the staggering amount of poor decisions with the movie, let us round out the top few:

- Luke Skywalker. You have got to be shitting me with how they treated him and ended the movie with him. He was the reason to come watch the sequels.

- The suicide light speed. As I saw her turning the ship around, I thought "They better fucking not be planning on light speed ramming, please fuck no". That right there pretty much invalidates large ships as a threat at all in Star Wars, because that would have been used regularly with droid-piloted (Or suicidal, whatever) pilots just to blow up Star Destroyers normally.

- I guess Snoke, the Knights of Ren and Rey are just random nobodies who were totally hyped up for nothing.

- The fake-out for Leia, considering Carrie was already passed. That was so fucking tasteless and disrespectful.

Every single one of these are unfathomably bad choices with zero possible chance for a favorable opinion from anyone not trolling.
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CanuckCowboy posted...

I have no problem with Rose but it just had a lot of dumb shit going on. It's in no way a terrible movie but it's also in no way a good one.

My biggest gripe had to be what it did with Luke. Magic Leia was dumb as fuck but it was brief and therefore easy enough to ignore.

Luke was the best part of the whole damn movie.
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Makeveli_lives posted...

Nerds and racist and sexists

Yeah racist people do like how they man Finn into a fool.
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Gonna add: Phasma's stupid fucking death/defeat
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Because people wanted Luke to stay the same exact Superman of their childhood.
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Dash_Harber posted...

Makeveli_lives posted...

Nerds and racist and sexists

This.

It had some flaws but it was a solid entry into the franchise. People where mad for a handful of reasons;
- They think having female characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think having minority characters play important roles is pandering.
- They think the First Order should have suicidally jumped into the escaping ship despite them having zero reason to do so.
- They think that Luke should have been the exact same person he was 30 years prior (which is incredibly ironic, given that would make him a blatant Mary Sue, a criticism often levied against Rey).
- They think Luke and Anakin weren't Mary Sues but Rey is (or simply put, they are blind to pre-existing flaws in the franchise because of nostalgia).
- They wanted Poe to be a Mary Sue.
- They wanted Rey to turn out to be Obi-Wan's child, Luke's child, or some other fan theory heavily based on their favorite parts of the EU. This also applies to how they wanted Snoke to turn out to be some EU Sith character.

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Zack_Attackv1 posted...

Rian Johnson should personally mail me the script so I can wipe my ass with it and all that paper would have finally served a purpose.

Maximum edge
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SavenForever posted...

Because people wanted Luke to stay the same exact Superman of their childhood.

Stop with this bullshit.

There is change, but and there is dumb shit and that is what happen with TLJ. The actor didn't even like what was going on. But yeah just write off all the people who didn't like it.
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cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

Because people wanted Luke to stay the same exact Superman of their childhood.

Stop with this bullshit.

There is change, but and there is dumb shit and that is what happen with TLJ. The actor didn't even like what was going on. But yeah just write off all the people who didn't like it.

Seriously, this.

Modern Captain America is a quality example of maturing a beloved character. Luke became the very thing he overcame in ROTJ simply because RJ thinks character development works to serve the story, when it's the other way around
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cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

Because people wanted Luke to stay the same exact Superman of their childhood.

Stop with this bullshit.

There is change, but and there is dumb shit and that is what happen with TLJ. The actor didn't even like what was going on. But yeah just write off all the people who didn't like it.

AvantgardeAClue posted...

cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

Because people wanted Luke to stay the same exact Superman of their childhood.

Stop with this bullshit.

There is change, but and there is dumb shit and that is what happen with TLJ. The actor didn't even like what was going on. But yeah just write off all the people who didn't like it.

Seriously, this.

Modern Captain America is a quality example of maturing a beloved character. Luke became the very thing he overcame in ROTJ simply because RJ thinks character development works to serve the story, when it's the other way around

Nope, that's exactly what happened. People couldn't except the fact that their childhood hero could turn for the worse - especially in a rabid fanbase such as Star Wars.
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As a person who has only seen Solo and now The Last Jedi, as far as Star Wars films go, I thought it was terrible.

It wasn't funny when it wanted to be and it wasn't serious when it wanted to be.
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SavenForever posted...

Nope, that's exactly what happened. People couldn't except the fact that their childhood hero could turn for the worse - especially in a rabid fanbase such as Star Wars.

No people don't like that it was not logical with what we know from the character. A character turning bad isn't anything new it has been done all the time but it should be done in a logical manner. If the Next Captain America movie had Captain America as racist Nazi for a weak reason do you think people would be ok with that ? If in Godfather II, Michael Corleone before a go-go dancer. People would have been upset with change. And so on. Characters can change but their motivations and the way that change need to be logical. Luke basically goes into his nephew's room in the middle of the night and than basically puts out a guns and cocks it next to the kids head. That is jar jar because that is not hte character we know and there is not explanation for why he would become a cowardly psychopath.
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cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

Nope, that's exactly what happened. People couldn't except the fact that their childhood hero could turn for the worse - especially in a rabid fanbase such as Star Wars.

No people don't like that it was not logical with what we know from the character. A character turning bad isn't anything new it has been done all the time but it should be done in a logical manner. If the Next Captain America movie had Captain America as racist Nazi for a weak reason do you think people would be ok with that ? If in Godfather II, Michael Corleone before a go-go dancer. People would have been upset with change. And so on. Characters can change but their motivations and the way that change need to be logical. Luke basically goes into his nephew's room in the middle of the night and than basically puts out a guns and cocks it next to the kids head. That is jar jar because that is not hte character we know and there is not explanation for why he would become a cowardly psychopath.

Stop
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thelovefist posted...

cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

Nope, that's exactly what happened. People couldn't except the fact that their childhood hero could turn for the worse - especially in a rabid fanbase such as Star Wars.

No people don't like that it was not logical with what we know from the character. A character turning bad isn't anything new it has been done all the time but it should be done in a logical manner. If the Next Captain America movie had Captain America as racist Nazi for a weak reason do you think people would be ok with that ? If in Godfather II, Michael Corleone before a go-go dancer. People would have been upset with change. And so on. Characters can change but their motivations and the way that change need to be logical. Luke basically goes into his nephew's room in the middle of the night and than basically puts out a guns and cocks it next to the kids head. That is jar jar because that is not hte character we know and there is not explanation for why he would become a cowardly psychopath.

Stop

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I'll never not be pissed that Rian Johnson decided to take a big old shit on all the softballs lobbed to him by JJ just to subvert expectations and be unique. It's one thing not to give in to fan service constantly, but to seemingly go out of your way to do so at every turn really soured me on the films. I mean it's SW, being fan servicey and obvious is trademarks of the entire series.

Everything else was frivolous and I could have dealt with even if I disagreed with the choices, but the way the entire film went out of it's way to be the opposite of expectations was just bad.
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SavenForever posted...

thelovefist posted...

cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

Nope, that's exactly what happened. People couldn't except the fact that their childhood hero could turn for the worse - especially in a rabid fanbase such as Star Wars.

No people don't like that it was not logical with what we know from the character. A character turning bad isn't anything new it has been done all the time but it should be done in a logical manner. If the Next Captain America movie had Captain America as racist Nazi for a weak reason do you think people would be ok with that ? If in Godfather II, Michael Corleone before a go-go dancer. People would have been upset with change. And so on. Characters can change but their motivations and the way that change need to be logical. Luke basically goes into his nephew's room in the middle of the night and than basically puts out a guns and cocks it next to the kids head. That is jar jar because that is not hte character we know and there is not explanation for why he would become a cowardly psychopath.

Stop

Wow you attack people who didn't like the movie with you horrible claim, then when someone points out why you are wrong you go to quote lovefist of all people. That really says a lot about you. If you want to make claims then don't be ready to support them.
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cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

thelovefist posted...

cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

Nope, that's exactly what happened. People couldn't except the fact that their childhood hero could turn for the worse - especially in a rabid fanbase such as Star Wars.

No people don't like that it was not logical with what we know from the character. A character turning bad isn't anything new it has been done all the time but it should be done in a logical manner. If the Next Captain America movie had Captain America as racist Nazi for a weak reason do you think people would be ok with that ? If in Godfather II, Michael Corleone before a go-go dancer. People would have been upset with change. And so on. Characters can change but their motivations and the way that change need to be logical. Luke basically goes into his nephew's room in the middle of the night and than basically puts out a guns and cocks it next to the kids head. That is jar jar because that is not hte character we know and there is not explanation for why he would become a cowardly psychopath.

Stop

Wow you attack people who didn't like the movie with you horrible claim, then when someone points out why you are wrong you go to quote lovefist of all people. That really says a lot about you.

But it wasn't a horrible claim, that is what I see all the time lmao. I quote people all the time and I don't get attached to anyone here, so I have no idea who lovefist is (guess you don't like him for some reason, and I don't care).

cjsdowg posted...

If you want to make claims then don't be ready to support them.

https://imgur.com/LEc5z
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My biggest beef was with Luke.

He was always pretty much hope personified. Even his own father, who was about to kill him, he never stopped believing there was goos in him, not once did he consider the possibility that he couldn't save him. But when he confronted Kylo Ren, that Luke was nowhere to be found.

The lightspeed ramming turns the entire eatablished lore on its ass, there is no way no one knew this was a possibility for hundreds of years, it was a horrible asspull.

They tried to have all the charactera to have witty banter like The Avengers have, for me, it just doesn't work. Avengers are super heroes, so it kind of fits, but Star Wars always felt a little more serious. They tried to force funny into this movie.

The confrontation between Finn and Phasma was complete and utter ass. And I hate how characters aren't fleshed out anymore as they were in the original trilogy.

Snoke was a waste.

Speaking of Luke and Kylo Ren, their fight was bullshit.

Holdo was a horrible character, sorry. Her big secret, which turnout to be the bullshit lightspeed ramming. And the fact that Holdo was expecting everyone to blindly follow her orders without question was morally questionable to say the least.

The choreography of the back to back fight of Kylo and Rey was godawful.

How Rose prevented Finn from destroying the battering ram or whatever it was called, what the actual FUCK, was that. (And Rose was a crappy character overall).

The ending makes no sense. Over half the resistance got wiped out (thanks Rose) and everyone is seen smiling, happy, patting eachother on the back. It is such a disconnect from what happened.
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cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

thelovefist posted...

cjsdowg posted...

SavenForever posted...

Nope, that's exactly what happened. People couldn't except the fact that their childhood hero could turn for the worse - especially in a rabid fanbase such as Star Wars.

No people don't like that it was not logical with what we know from the character. A character turning bad isn't anything new it has been done all the time but it should be done in a logical manner. If the Next Captain America movie had Captain America as racist Nazi for a weak reason do you think people would be ok with that ? If in Godfather II, Michael Corleone before a go-go dancer. People would have been upset with change. And so on. Characters can change but their motivations and the way that change need to be logical. Luke basically goes into his nephew's room in the middle of the night and than basically puts out a guns and cocks it next to the kids head. That is jar jar because that is not hte character we know and there is not explanation for why he would become a cowardly psychopath.

Stop

Wow you attack people who didn't like the movie with you horrible claim, then when someone points out why you are wrong you go to quote lovefist of all people. That really says a lot about you. If you want to make claims then don't be ready to support them.

Please try again, but this time use English.
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SavenForever posted...

But it wasn't a horrible claim, that is what I see all the time lmao. I quote people all the time and I don't get attached to anyone here, so I have no idea who lovefist is (guess you don't like him for some reason, and I don't care).

It is horrible claimed , people in this very topic have pointed out how you were wrong. But whatever more than one person have pointed out the flaw in your statement and you can't defend it so . So that is that.
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