Board 8 > Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Characters: Special Edition Discussion Topic

(+) Yeah! (+)

LeonhartFour posted...

Eh, Ashe is honestly the only character I don't think you can say isn't important to what story is there to be found. It's why I tend to regard her as the real main character of FFXII. Everyone else is basically along for the ride in Ashe's quest. She drives the action, and she's the one the Occuria are trying to compel to do their bidding. Of course, she ultimately turns down the role, which is a fitting commentary on the game's plot.

a+ leon post here
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as my posts tend to be
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20. Zell Dincht (Final Fantasy VIII)

The Good: Zell is the comic relief character who winds up being the butt of most jokes in the main game (read: the non-Laguna sections) of Final Fantasy VIII, and I love him for it because he's hilarious. Even Squall gets in on the action from time to time. All the various permutations of the other characters seeing Zell's room for the first time are amazing (Irvine's is probably my favorite one), and his sidequest with the girl with pigtails is great, too. On a serious note, Zell is a good foil for Squall (and I love me some foils; FFVIII might as well be called Game of Foils). Squall is basically everything Zell wants to be but isn't (with the added irony that Squall doesn't even want it for himself). He really wants to be a hero and a leader, but it rarely seems to work out for him, so I feel good for him when he succeeds when he's in charge of a task, like driving Galbadia out of Balamb.

The Bad: Zell's recklessness and inability to control his emotions often causes trouble for himself and others. The entire arc of Galbadia firing missiles at the Gardens is set in motion because Zell blurts out that they're SeeDs in front of President Deling when Seifer takes him hostage. The reason he ends up getting picked on so much is because he takes himself too seriously and can't help overreacting to the teasing of others. He's kind of a deconstruction of the hotblooded shounen hero archetype in that the tropes that usually fuel the hero to success tend to backfire on him.

The Best: Two words: Armageddon Fist. I love using Zell in battle. You can do crazy amounts of damage if you know what you're doing, and I love how over the top his Limit Breaks are. I mean, the dude literally runs right past the enemy, runs all the way around the world, and then punches them right in the face. I also love that bringing Zell to the Deep Sea Research Center makes that sidequest play out differently (as well as proving that he's not quite as tech savvy as he claimed!). Plus, the climax of the hot dog running gag is emotionally very satisfying in the ending...! Zell finally got those hot dogs, but even then, true to form, he finds a way to screw it up. Then he makes up for it by landing a direct hit on the camera.
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Yeah Zell is good stuff-- he annoys Squall in a fun way and not an annoying way like most of the cast. Shame I didn't get any saves today!
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2. Tidus (Final Fantasy X)

The Good: First of all, Tidus is hilarious. He might be the funniest character in the series. I have a high love for cheesiness, so I guess some of the things people consider cringe-inducing, I find funny, like the laughing scene, doing various impressions of people (His Mika impression is the best), or making a completely random Macarena joke (which was already outdated in 2001 when the game came out). He has some great battle sound clips, too, like, Never fear! The heros here! or How can a bird get so BIG like that?! I actually think James Arnold Taylor did a really good job because he portrays Tidus as the type of character hes supposed to be instead of trying to make him sound cool or whatever. Hes serious when he needs to be serious, and hes silly when he needs to be silly. I like the fact that Tidus is willing to stand up for what he believes is right, even when it means he has to go against the flow to do it.

The Bad: Hes spoiled and selfish, and this shows up a lot early on when he first gets to Spira. Its done in a realistic way so I dont particularly mind it so much, but I understand why his whininess bothers people. On the same note, I think his selfishness sort of works in his favor because he knows what he wants and he wont let anyone stop him from getting it, such as saving Yuna. However, it was a bit hypocritical of him to get angry about no one telling him the truth about the Final Summoning and then not telling anyone that beating Yu Yevon means he disappears until literally right before the final battle. To be fair though, he actually did tell everyone himself instead of just letting everyone figure it out once he started disappearing, even if it was at the last minute. Also, learn some fashion sense, bro!

The Best: Probably the thing that drew me to Tidus the most is the fact that you basically experience Final Fantasy X from his perspective, especially if you went into the game spoiler-free like I did. I was learning things as he was learning them. He asks the others the questions that youre thinking, and because sometimes he fails to ask the right questions, you get totally shocked when he gets totally shocked, like finding out the truth about the Final Summoning. He is a complete outsider when it comes to Spira, and so was I. Its the reason he (and you) can recognize things like Seymour is obviously a villain at glance when people who have been raised in Spira to implicitly trust Yevon cant. As you learn, he learns, and he visibly matures over the course of the game. Its strange to think of Tidus as an excellently done player avatar, but in a sense, thats what he is. Beyond that, Tidus has great relationships with the rest of the cast. I love seeing him interact with the other party members. Its part of the reason FFX has the best cast in an RPG.
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yay Tidus
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we've knocked out 4 of the top 6 in seven rounds

you guys are efficient if nothing else
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Bane_Of_Despair posted...

yay Tidus

1 spot too low imhotbqh
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I never really got the whiny sentiment, myself, even in a "it exists but it doesn't bother me" kinda way.

Like yeah he has his moments that you could take as whiny but to me it always feels like tongue in cheek because he's always so ridiculous about it. I NEED FOOD. I can't take that seriously as actual whining. As you said he is a pretty funny guy pretty often so to me it feels more consistent to not take his whining seriously.

Selfish? Disrespectful? Yeah, definitely. But whatever. Spira's a weird place and he's not reacting too different than I would, which as you said adds to his appeal.
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He whines at Auron but it also feels completely justified.
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8. Auron (Final Fantasy X)

The Good: Auron set the standard for being cool in the Final Fantasy series. He has one of the best designs, and hes a fount of excellent quotes and one-liners. He has a lot of really cool-looking and powerful moves, including one that can literally eject really big monsters from battle in one shot. He has a reputation of being Spiras legendary guardian, and he exudes this aura of mystery about him. While that sounds like a bunch of clichs, I dont particularly care because its executed extremely well. Clichs exist for a reason, after all, and Auron is perhaps the best of that archetype Ive encountered in a video game. Plus, theres a lot more to him than what you see on the surface. Hes so great.

The Bad: While Auron is really useful in battle at first because of his piercing weapons and various breaks and stuff, but I feel like those things gradually become less and less useful as the game goes along. Plus, his Overdrives get outclassed by about half the characters and arent particularly useful against tough bosses. Hes still a great damage dealer throughout and hes great for tanking damage with Sentinel, so its not like he becomes useless or anything, but his special abilities arent as good as many of the other characters abilities.

The Best: Auron is at his best in Zanarkand because he finally drops the veil of mystery and starts revealing the truth to the party and his own personal feelings. He has that quote before the Yunalesca fight that hes probably most well-known for, but he has several moments like that throughout Zanarkand. You start seeing the intricacies of his relationship with Tidus, Jecht, and Braska, and you see what really motivated him this time around, including a lot of personal regret. Probably my favorite Auron quote is right when you first get to Zanarkand (and its a noticeable shift in tone for him): Legendary guardian? I was just a boy. A boy about your age, actually. I wanted to change the world, too. But I changed nothing. That is my story.
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TIL my top two FF characters are in Leon's top 5!

I was already pretty sure about Tidus though I didn't think he'd be #2 (or maybe I did and forgot because now I'm feeling like Leon said this at some point), but I had no idea he regarded Balthier so highly.
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Balthier's awesome.

we're not going to have any top ten characters left soon though
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Yeah Auron never quite clicked with me. I think I like my badasses a bit more over the top

I like him but not one of my favorites. He was a solid #4 among the party members but over time I've grown to like Yuna and even Lulu more so realistically he can be anywhere from 4-6. Ahead of Kimahri below the members of the besaid swim team.
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eh I'll do the writeup before the round tomorrow

tired
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24. Kain Highwind (Final Fantasy IV)

The Good: As the original dragoon, Kain has one of the coolest designs in the series, and Jump is a fun mechanic. He's also one of the few Final Fantasy IV characters with any nuance that doesn't involve (usually unsuccessfully) trying to kill himself. Even though he and Cecil are friends, Kain also views him as a rival and bears some deep-seated resentments toward him for a variety of reasons, which makes him susceptible to Golbez's mind control in the end. Despite that, he still defers to Cecil and Rosa and is willing to suppress his own desires so that they can be happy together. Friendship wins out over rivalry most of the time for him as long as the choice is his own.

The Bad: I don't have as much of a problem with mind control/brainwashing/amnesia plots as a lot of people do, but I think it was kind of dumb to have it be a recurring thing for Kain's character. Once he overcame it the first time, that should've been it. Also, it's been a long time since I've played FFIV, so maybe I'm misremembering, but I seem to recall Kain dying a lot when he was in my party. Maybe his HP is low or his defense is bad, but there's a reason why the dude needs to be jumping all the time, I guess!

The Best: The fight against Kain in Final Fantasy IV is really cool. One of my favorite parts of the game in general is that its storyline battles tend to be very good, and that might be the best one of the bunch. I didn't know anything about FFIV before I played it the first time, so having a party member betray you and fight against you was a pretty mind-blowing moment for me.
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Kain can die a lot or a little depending on how you gear him. He has good HP and decent defense if you give him the more defensive gear but you can also give him clothes items for more attack which makes him as durable as Edge with more HP.

Full offensive stats AVENGER Kain best Kain.

And yeah I actually ground out some levels for Cecil trying to win that fight. IIRC the best you can do is survive till the battle just ends.

Anyway Kain is fine. He's a guy who I think gets enhanced a lot by the thought reading in menus you can do in FFIV DS. Makes the mind control thing feel less like a plot device and something that makes more sense.
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Why don't I remember a battle against Kain
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sounds like you're suffering from an amnesia plot
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It's in Fabul Castle

It's not really a battle because unless you're overleveled he decks you in like two hits. If you're overleveled you can really drag it out with higher base HP and healing items though.

Not really the kinda story battle I like, myself. I like stuff like from Lufia 2 where you actually can straight up win if you have the right strategy/amount of overleveling.
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Or in Chrono Cross when you can win because of New Game Plus in Fort Dragonia.
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11. Tifa Lockhart (Final Fantasy VII)

The Good: Tifa is just a fun character to have around. She's literally always in my active party in Final Fantasy VII as long as she's available. She's basically the team mom, so she interacts really well with the other party members, particularly Cloud, Barret, and Aerith, which is part of why the first stretch of the game is so great. I choose to go up the stairs in the Shinra Building just to hear all the banter between Cloud, Tifa, and Barret all the way up. I like Tifa's Limit Breaks, too. It feels like a challenge trying to get a "Yeah!" on all the slots, especially once you have all of them. It's pretty satisfying if you actually ever manage to get all seven, and they all look pretty cool, too.

The Bad: The fact that Tifa was too shy and nervous to talk to Cloud about Nibelheim caused problems for them both, although I can both understand her hesitance and I think it's overblown how much damage it really did. Regardless, she kept quiet for reasons she admits are selfish, which isn't a good thing. Also, at times, I wish Tifa was a little less dependent on Cloud. I don't think it manifests itself often, but it can undermine her image as this strong, independent woman when it does.

The Best: The parts of the game during disc 2 where you control Tifa are some of the best parts of Final Fantasy VII. Escaping from Junon while Sapphire Weapon attacks is excellent, and the slap fight with Scarlet is more satisfying than it reasonably should be. Plus, the Lifestream Dive where you help Cloud finally sort out his memories is so great. I like the conversations Cloud and Tifa have throughout this part, especially in the parts that relate to Tifa herself, such as the promise at the well or the time they both fell off of the bridge (and "On the Other Side of the Mountain" is an underrated FFVII song, too).
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Kinda higher than I was expecting for her. Not because she's "bad" or whatever-- just thought you liked her a bit less than that.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Regardless, she kept quiet for reasons she admits are selfish, which isn't a good thing.

Is this even a bad thing. Flaws are good in a character
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Yeah I never really considered that a bad thing. It's done in a realistic and understandable way so I don't really hold it against her. I seem to remember Leonhart bringing it up a lot in discussions of Tifa which is kinda why I thought he liked her less I think.
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We'll he does say its understandable
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Well, it's not "bad" in the sense that it makes her a bad character. It's just...not a good thing to do in general. Like, I totally get why she did it and I sympathize with her in that regard, but I generally think it's better to be honest than not.

Lopen posted...

Yeah I never really considered that a bad thing. It's done in a realistic and understandable way so I don't really hold it against her. I seem to remember Leonhart bringing it up a lot in discussions of Tifa which is kinda why I thought he liked her less I think.

Ulti brings it up all the time as the reason why Tifa is a terrible character so I've spent a good deal of time explaining why it's actually not all that bad.
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Yeah that I must have just been misremembering harsh environments where Tifa was discussed and have been attributing more of it to you than I should have.

I mean I did know you liked her I just would've assumed she was towards the tail end of the rankings rather than in the middle.
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12. Jecht (Final Fantasy X)

The Good: I like how your impressions of Jecht gradually evolve over the course of the game even though you never meet him until the very end. At first, he's presented as a jerk who verbally abused his son, and you even find out early on that he's the person controlling the Sin that's destroying everything on Spira. However, as Tidus's memories become clearer and you collect more of the Jecht Spheres, you learn he really did care for his son, even if he wasn't the best at expressing it. You also realize that he wasn't really all that different from Tidus himself because you can see parallels between the two on the pilgrimages through the Jecht Spheres. I just think it's kind of neat to have a character develop like that despite the fact that he's unseen almost the entire time.

The Bad: Although Tidus's memories of him are somewhat exaggerated, the dude still wasn't a very good father. He tried to do the "tough love" thing without recognizing that the only thing it was doing was making Tidus resent him. He couldn't straightforwardly express how much he loved his son, and he became an alcoholic, to boot. As someone who had an alcoholic father growing up, I definitely understand how tough that can be for a kid. So while Tidus may have misremembered certain aspects of his father, Jecht was still somewhat complicit in creating those impressions.

The Best: He's the best! Seriously though, I love the scene at the very end when Tidus and Jecht finally meet each other again. There's a palpable awkwardness between them as they're both trying to express how they really feel knowing that they have to fight each other, too (For all the talk of Tidus being a crybaby, he's also not very good at expressing his emotions, which is why he still tells Jecht he hates him even though he doesn't really mean it anymore). I also love the scene in Zanarkand where Jecht agrees to become Braska's Final Aeon, saying he wanted to make his life count for something and promising that he'd find a way to break the cycle for good.
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Jecht is a character I kinda like I guess but eh.

I think him being a bad father hits a bit too close to home for me. Not sure that's actually the problem but there is a block between me and the character.

Getting too much of his stupid relics in Final Fantasy Record Keeper when drawing for Tidus and Rikku doesn't help.
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23. Noctis Lucis Caelum (Final Fantasy XV)

The Good: I think Noctis is a ton of fun to play as with all the different styles and Armiger weapons, as well as the links with the other party members. It's definitely the most fun I've had with a Final Fantasy battle system since FFX. I also like Noctis's journey over the course of the game to prove himself worthy of the throne. There are a lot of ebbs and flows for him, but I think it makes it more satisfying in the end seeing the struggles he had to overcome along the way. I know Chapter 13 is a divisive part of the game, but I thought it was really great having to go through all that with his abilities gimped.

The Bad: Noctis has a tendency to mope when bad things happen. While it's definitely understandable considering the things that befall him along the way, particularly his father and Luna dying, it does cause a lot of friction with the other party members at times, especially Gladio, when they think he needs to step up and be more kingly while he doesn't feel capable of it. Noctis has a tough time vocalizing how he really feels, which only deepens the misunderstandings.

The Best: The fights against the summons are my favorite parts of the game. I said to user SaveEstelle (name drop) right after I finished the battle against Leviathan, "That's what I waited ten years for." It's just so good. I love the last chapter of the game after Noctis awakens, too. His new look is excellent, and that final talk with his friends around the campfire is really heartwarming. "You guys...are the best."
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15. Delita Hyral (Final Fantasy Tactics)

The Good: Delita's rise from peasant to king over the course of Final Fantasy Tactics is fascinating to watch, especially through the eyes of Ramza and comparing the arcs of the two characters since they're great foils. Both of them get their worlds turned upside down in Chapter 1. Ramza's response was to play an entire different game from everybody else, while Delita chose to beat everyone at their own game. By the end of the game, it's hard to tell if Delita should even be considered a good guy anymore. He operates in the gray better than just about any character in the series.

The Bad: The dude's pretty plainly a hypocrite. Delita reacts to being manipulated for someone else's game by trying to manipulate everyone else for his own gain. Thankfully, the game doesn't let him get away with it because he ends up killing the one person left he truly loved because she lives in fear that she'll betray him someday, too, and posing one of the great final lines in the series: "Ramza, what did you get? I..." Also, Ramza/Delita isn't a rivalry and shouldn't have been in Rivalry Rumble. Don't confuse rivals with foils, people!

The Best: Delita is involved in some of the best scenes in the game, such as the showdown with Algus at Fort Zeakden and the battle at Zirekile Falls. He and Ramza have a lot of great scenes together, although my favorite might be when they meet together at the church and both of them make their intentions and goals known to each other. His relationship with Ovelia is really intriguing, too, because you're never really sure what to make of it right up to the very end of the game.
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16. Kuja (Final Fantasy IX)

The Good: Whenever Kuja shows up in Final Fantasy IX, something big is about to happen. He's involved in some of my favorite moments in the game, like the fight at the Iifa Tree at the end of Disc 2, the battle in Alexandria at the beginning of Disc 3, or him turning into Trance Kuja and destroying Terra at the end of Disc 3. I also like his first appearance in Burmecia at the end of Disc 1 where he just looks down on everyone after Beatrix has owned them and walks away. The first three discs all end with Kuja triumphant over the party. I also like his blatant narcissism to the point that he'll ramble in long, almost poetic monologues about his plans to no one in particular.

The Bad: Honestly, I'm not a big fan of Kuja's deathbed repentance at the end. I don't think they pull it off very well, especially with Mikoto trying to eulogize him as if what he did was laudable in any way. I think it would've been cooler if he tried to sucker Zidane into thinking he changed at the end and then tried to kill him with the Iifa Tree as he dies. Oh well.

The Best: Part of the reason I like Kuja's extreme narcissism that it makes it all the more amazing when Garland kicks the props out from under him by revealing that he's going to die soon. Then he decides the best course of action is to destroy everything before it destroys him. Also, while the fight with Trance Kuja isn't super difficult or anything, "The Dark Messenger" is one of my favorite special boss themes in the series.
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Yeah I hated that with Kuja. I still like him but it is largely why you almost never see me actually save the guy (though being from the over-loved FFIX doesn't help either)
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Oh right, I still need to do that Zidane writeup before I go out of town next week.

eh I'll do it tomorrow
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man I really should've proofread these better before I posted them

the Delita one is driving me crazy with the mistakes I made so I'm going to delete it and repost it for my own peace of mind

15. Delita Hyral (Final Fantasy Tactics)

The Good: Delita's rise from peasant to king over the course of Final Fantasy Tactics is fascinating to watch, especially through the eyes of Ramza and comparing the arcs of the two characters since they're great foils. Both of them get their worlds turned upside down in Chapter 1. Ramza's response was to play an entire different game from everybody else, while Delita chose to beat everyone at their own game. By the end of the game, it's hard to tell if Delita should even be considered a good guy anymore. He operates in the gray better than just about any character in the series.

The Bad: The dude's pretty plainly a hypocrite. Delita reacts to being manipulated for someone else's gain by trying to manipulate everyone else for his own gain. Thankfully, the game doesn't let him get away with it because he ends up killing the one person left he truly loved because she lives in fear that he'll betray her someday, too, and posing one of the great final lines in the series: "Ramza, what did you get? I..." Also, Ramza/Delita isn't a rivalry and shouldn't have been in Rivalry Rumble. Don't confuse rivals with foils, people!

The Best: Delita is involved in some of the best scenes in the game, such as the showdown with Algus at Fort Zeakden and the battle at Zirekile Falls. He and Ramza have a lot of great scenes together, although my favorite might be when they meet together at the church and both of them make their intentions and goals known to each other. His relationship with Ovelia is really intriguing, too, because you're never really sure what to make of it right up to the very end of the game.
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Yeah the cheesy face turn was dumb but I dnt let it get in the way
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7. Zidane Tribal (Final Fantasy IX)

The Good: Simply put, I like Zidane because he's someone who's always willing to go out of his way to help others, even people who would be considered his enemies. I like that it's so ingrained in him that when he hears Kuja speak to him in the ending, he just kicks the ground in frustration because he knows he's going to have to go in there after him, whether he likes it or not. Zidane also tends to be the life of the party, the one who helps pick everybody up when they're down. I like it when the JRPG protagonist is the one filling that role. His advice is kinda...weird sometimes (like deciding the best way to get Vivi's mind off of things is for them to take a leak together as a male bonding ritual), but it produces the desired effect all the same.

The Bad: There are a few aspects of Zidane's character that get overplayed, like his flirtatious nature. They really dragged out the romance between Dagger and him, too. It's clear pretty early on that they both like each other, but they continue pretending they don't until all the way up to the end. It's kinda middle schoolish, really. Also, for all the talk of Cloud and Squall being brooding and moody, neither one of them started moping so badly that the game literally makes you take control of another character to move the story forward.

The Best: That being said, I still love the "You're Not Alone" scene because of what a role reversal it is, with everyone having to get Zidane back on track instead of it being the other way around. Perhaps my favorite Zidane moment though is when he dashes in and saves Dagger (and Eiko as he scowls at the top of the line) right as Alexandria is starting to collapse. Probably his most heroic moment in the game. And for all of their dragging out the Zidane/Dagger romance, the scene at the end where he reveals himself (although seriously did anyone not realize it was him?) and she leaps into his arms is really nice. They made me wait it out, but at least the payoff was good.
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