Current Events > Is whipping your kid with your belt child abuse?

(+) Yeah! (+)

JxOxNxIxCxS posted...

Based on the results, no wonder kids nowadays are disrespectful little nuggets

That was my thought. I got the belt when I was a kid (not often, rarely) and I turned out just fine and I love my parents more than anything. Made me a respectful and good human being.

Spare the rod spoil the child
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I used to get hit with belts as a kid.

By no means are my parents abusive.
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XXmiznatorXX posted...

JxOxNxIxCxS posted...

Based on the results, no wonder kids nowadays are disrespectful little nuggets

That was my thought. I got the belt when I was a kid (not often, rarely) and I turned out just fine and I love my parents more than anything. Made me a respectful and good human being.

What if someone didn't get the belt and turned out fine? What if someone got the belt and turned out poorly? Can we still say the belt is what makes children turn into proper adults?
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Spanking, used as a form of discipline (not done purely out of anger or frustration), helps develop character and a healthy respect for authority in children. Biased studies wont show you this, because they cant possibly take into account every single factor that goes into the proper spanking of a child (things like the parents state of mind while spanking the child, whether or not the child was aware they were doing something wrong and warned before the spanking, whether or not the rule the child was expected to follow was reasonable, etc.). There is a fine line between abuse and discipline.

Many people think spanking teaches violence, but that is not the case. Used properly, it will teach children at a young age to associate pain with wrongdoing, which is exactly what any other form of discipline is designed to do. However, spanking sends the message immediately and clearly, which is why it can be such an effective form of discipline, and which is why children who are spanked by loving parents are generally much more well behaved than children who arent spanked.

Only an ignorant and/or naive person will make a blanket statement claiming that all spanking is always bad. If properly employed, spanking is an effective, safe, and healthy method of discipline.
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Funkydog posted...

averagejoel posted...

Rika_Furude posted...

anyone saying that "all spanking is abuse" doesn't get to have a say next time they are stuck on a plane for hours with a kid crying nonstop. that is exactly what you wanted

you're really trying hard to justify hitting children

Everyone knows the way to get a toddler or baby to stop crying is to beat them into silence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Psi7V5FCuw" data-time="
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Vindris_SNH posted...

Spanking, used as a form of discipline (not done purely out of anger or frustration), helps develop character and a healthy respect for authority in children. Biased studies wont show you this, because they cant possibly take into account every single factor that goes into the proper spanking of a child (things like the parents state of mind while spanking the child, whether or not the child was aware they were doing something wrong and warned before the spanking, whether or not the rule the child was expected to follow was reasonable, etc.). There is a fine line between abuse and discipline.

Many people think spanking teaches violence, but that is not the case. Used properly, it will teach children at a young age to associate pain with wrongdoing, which is exactly what any other form of discipline is designed to do. However, spanking sends the message immediately and clearly, which is why it can be such an effective form of discipline, and which is why children who are spanked by loving parents are generally much more well behaved than children who arent spanked.

Only an ignorant and/or naive person will make a blanket statement claiming that all spanking is always bad. If properly employed, spanking is an effective, safe, and healthy method of discipline.

the thing is that it's not effective, safe, or healthy

part of the problem is that people have the idea of "spanking" and "abuse" as different concepts, when that isn't really the case
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averagejoel posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

Spanking, used as a form of discipline (not done purely out of anger or frustration), helps develop character and a healthy respect for authority in children. Biased studies wont show you this, because they cant possibly take into account every single factor that goes into the proper spanking of a child (things like the parents state of mind while spanking the child, whether or not the child was aware they were doing something wrong and warned before the spanking, whether or not the rule the child was expected to follow was reasonable, etc.). There is a fine line between abuse and discipline.

Many people think spanking teaches violence, but that is not the case. Used properly, it will teach children at a young age to associate pain with wrongdoing, which is exactly what any other form of discipline is designed to do. However, spanking sends the message immediately and clearly, which is why it can be such an effective form of discipline, and which is why children who are spanked by loving parents are generally much more well behaved than children who arent spanked.

Only an ignorant and/or naive person will make a blanket statement claiming that all spanking is always bad. If properly employed, spanking is an effective, safe, and healthy method of discipline.

the thing is that it's not effective, safe, or healthy

part of the problem is that people have the idea of "spanking" and "abuse" as different concepts, when that isn't really the case

Remember that part about blanket statements and ignorance?
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Gunman is the type of people I was referring to earlier. They scare me because they can't seperate discipline from violence. Discipline is very important in raising children. It never has to get violent however.

Also if your child is at the point he's not listening at all, then there's probably an underlying issue with the child that needs to be checked out. This is where clueless parents can't fathom something being wrong.

What if it's mental? You think hitting your child will strengthen him or some other dumb concept? Or do you think it might possibly fuck the child up more?

Vindris_SNH posted...

which is why children who are spanked by loving parents are generally much more well behaved than children who arent spanked.

Lmao. So... You basically disregarded all studies as biased so you can throw around anecdotes as more factual or something?

Please prove what you're saying. Because this is basically blanket statements and ignorance.
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It can be.

Your kid messed up big time and needs discipline = not abuse
You had a bad day at work and made eye contact with your kid = pretty abusive

DoctorVader posted...

Gunman is the type of people I was referring to earlier. They scare me because they can't seperate discipline from violence. Discipline is very important in raising children. It never has to get violent however.

Also if your child is at the point he's not listening at all, then there's probably an underlying issue with the child that needs to be checked out. This is where clueless parents can't fathom something being wrong.

What if it's mental? You think hitting your child will strengthen him or some other dumb concept? Or do you think it might possibly fuck the child up more?

Vindris_SNH posted...

which is why children who are spanked by loving parents are generally much more well behaved than children who arent spanked.

Lmao. So... You basically disregarded all studies as biased so you can throw around anecdotes as more factual or something?

Please prove what you're saying. Because this is basically blanket statements and ignorance.

Common sense (which doesn't seem so common these days) proves what I'm saying. I explained why no study on spanking is accurate enough to report meaningful results. You can heed wisdom or ignore it, up to you. I don't really give a damn if you raise rotten children. I'm not gonna pretend like I'm some saint. I'll be dead in about 40 years, so it won't affect me.
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Vindris_SNH posted...

Common sense (which doesn't seem so common these days) proves what I'm saying.

Common sense is not proof of something. You can't seriously get at people for blanket statements and ignorance and use common sense as your evidence.

Vindris_SNH posted...

I explained why no study on spanking is accurate enough to report meaningful results.

I'm sorry, but your argument and explanation doesn't really explain anything outside how you personally feel.

Vindris_SNH posted...

You can heed wisdom or ignore it, up to you.

If we're talking anecdotes here, I've already said I raised 5 children in my family. So I'm not sure what "wisdom" I'm supposed to heed.
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DoctorVader posted...

Vindris_SNH posted...

Common sense (which doesn't seem so common these days) proves what I'm saying.

Common sense is not proof of something. You can't seriously get at people for blanket statements and ignorance and use common sense as your evidence.

Vindris_SNH posted...

I explained why no study on spanking is accurate enough to report meaningful results.

I'm sorry, but your argument and explanation doesn't really explain anything outside how you personally feel.

Vindris_SNH posted...

You can heed wisdom or ignore it, up to you.

If we're talking anecdotes here, I've already said I raised 5 children in my family. So I'm not sure what "wisdom" I'm supposed to heed.

I get it, you dont get it, thats fine. The world will go on.
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Vindris_SNH posted...

I get it, you dont get it, thats fine. The world will go on.

Lmao. Shut up.

All you've posted is BS.
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idk. I didn't get whipped and I didn't turn out okay

I'm a huge fan of corporal punishment for criminals over a certain age, but I say a belt whipping administered by a parent is abuse.
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This is actually very normal and common in Asia, particularly among the Chinese. Amazing what a large ass contrast westerners have.

Wutobliteration posted...

This is actually very normal and common in Asia, particularly among the Chinese. Amazing what a large ass contrast westerners have.

True. But it's worst there because it's often both physical and psychological. So much so that the youth of Japan are giving up on the pressure and abuse put on by their families and some straight up committing suicide and in South Asia and the Middle East, you have families murdering their own children because of shit like honor.

These defenses of using Asia, Africa or South America/Central America that this shit is normal is never a good defense. Look at the countries and compare it to the countries of the "West". It's full of violence and unrest and other social injustices.
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imaging thinking spanking is fine

sick fucks
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C_Pain posted...

imaging thinking spanking is fine

sick fucks

It's crazy. You'd think people would celebrate at the scientific findings of "Hey you don't need to hit small children" not complain and make excuses.

Also, in what world is temporary minor pain the most effective punishment? I feel like most people would beg for a slap on the ass over how the world nonviolently fucks us daily. The threat of violence isn't what keeps adults going as it's not even a risk in most scenarios.
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My dad used to beat me and whip me with his belt to the point where I can always pop my neck like Popping my knuckles
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It'd be cool if the poll was actually a trap that banned anyone who voted that it isn't abuse.
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Wutobliteration posted...

lol...do you even realise what you're saying?

Why don't you elaborate?
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Kids are like puppies. You can't reason with them. They don't know right and wrong. Sometimes the only way to get through their skulls they're doing something wrong is by spanking them.

Spanking, not assaulting or beating with a belt or a stick.
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DavidWong posted...

Kids are like puppies. You can't reason with them. They don't know right and wrong. Sometimes the only way to get through their skulls they're doing something wrong is by spanking them.

Spanking, not assaulting or beating with a belt or a stick.

Science disagrees with you and lol at comparing them to puppies.
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DoctorVader posted...

DavidWong posted...

Kids are like puppies. You can't reason with them. They don't know right and wrong. Sometimes the only way to get through their skulls they're doing something wrong is by spanking them.

Spanking, not assaulting or beating with a belt or a stick.

Science disagrees with you and lol at comparing them to puppies.

*Shrug* look at the generation of snowflakes and SJWs we have these days. Compared to people my age (28), I'd say my parents had it right.

The first thing I'm gonna reach my kid is that they are amazing, beautiful, and the best thing in the world... To me. But to the rest of the world, you're nothing. The world will not look at you the way I do. You have to contribute to the world for the world to give back to you. You can't sit and expect everything to be given to you.

Try having that conversation with someone who wasn't spanked.
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DoctorVader posted...

Wutobliteration posted...

lol...do you even realise what you're saying?

Why don't you elaborate?

I'm just saying it's common in certain countries like China, Korea etc. and it's just a common practice there. Yet here you go with unrelated s*** like kids suicide.The suicide rate in Japan has more to do with the working culture, or as it's known there as karoshi and pressure to perform. And don't go with that 'honor killings' thing, that's not even something societies condone and only practised by the rural few.

Also pretty hypocritical of you calling other societies ''full of violence and unrest and other social injustices'', yet coming from the country still stuck in the cowboy era of never-ending highschool shootings.

Wutobliteration posted...

DoctorVader posted...

Wutobliteration posted...

lol...do you even realise what you're saying?

Why don't you elaborate?

I'm just saying it's common in certain countries like China, Korea etc. and it's just a common practice there. Yet here you go with unrelated s*** like kids suicide.The suicide rate in Japan has more to do with the working culture, or as it's known there as karoshi and pressure to perform. And don't go with that 'honor killings' thing, that's not even something societies condone and only practised by the rural few.

Also pretty hypocritical of you calling other societies ''full of violence and unrest and other social injustices'', yet coming from the country still stuck in the cowboy era of never-ending highschool shootings.

Ironically, the school shooters come from the generation where parents began to relax corporal punishment with their children. Im not engaging in a post hoc ergo propter hoc here. I just find it interesting.
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i guess it depends on the era.

70 years ago, no one would've batted an eye.
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DavidWong posted...

*Shrug* look at the generation of snowflakes and SJWs we have these days. Compared to people my age (28), I'd say my parents had it right.

You're still a millennial like all these snowflakes. They were spanked and hit and abused just like the previous generations. This trend of stopping is recent, thus we have not really seem the effects into adulthood. We have however seen the negative effects of previous generations.

DavidWong posted...

The first thing I'm gonna reach my kid is that they are amazing, beautiful, and the best thing in the world... To me. But to the rest of the world, you're nothing. The world will not look at you the way I do. You have to contribute to the world for the world to give back to you. You can't sit and expect everything to be given to you.

Try having that conversation with someone who wasn't spanked

Um, what? I have had those conversations with those who were not spanked. You don't need violence to realize the harsh realities of the world. In fact, children learning the harsh realities of the world at an early age helps them better deal with it. Violence is not needed for that.

We actually shelter our children too much and spanking and whatnot stems from that.
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Wutobliteration posted...

I'm just saying it's common in certain countries like China, Korea etc. and it's just a common practice there. Yet here you go with unrelated s*** like kids suicide.The suicide rate in Japan has more to do with the working culture, or as it's known there as karoshi and pressure to perform. And don't go with that 'honor killings' thing, that's not even something societies condone and only practised by the rural few.

Those things go hand in hand. Working culture and pressure and suicide and honor killings and beating your kids. It stems from ignorance, lack of education, lack of control, etc. Honor is most definitely a HUGE thing in Asia, and honor killings is just one mere example.

And my other point was that those countries have not shown any positive from this abuse. I mean, there's a statistic about 80% of Korean men abusing their SOs. Where do you think that comes from? From family and previous generations and shit like that.

Wutobliteration posted...

Also pretty hypocritical of you calling other societies ''full of violence and unrest and other social injustices'', yet coming from the country still stuck in the cowboy era of never-ending highschool shootings

Lmao that's definitely not true. The US is still a top tier country dude. Don't let the media fool you.

Also, yes, many of the countries I mentioned are third world/developing countries. They are pretty much defined as such.
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DoctorVader posted...

Those things go hand in hand. Working culture and pressure and suicide and honor killings and beating your kids. It stems from ignorance, lack of education, lack of control, etc

What is this dude? You've equated suicide with ignorance, lack of education, and lack of control? I've never seen a stupider comment on CE. Stop this. Suicide has many many more variables than what you just listed.

Also, I would argue the entire comment is lacking in any truth, as the rest of those have variables not listed. I'm not getting into this though. Just know that your comment regarding suicide actually triggered me
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DoctorVader posted...

DavidWong posted...

*Shrug* look at the generation of snowflakes and SJWs we have these days. Compared to people my age (28), I'd say my parents had it right.

You're still a millennial like all these snowflakes. They were spanked and hit and abused just like the previous generations. This trend of stopping is recent, thus we have not really seem the effects into adulthood. We have however seen the negative effects of previous generations.

DavidWong posted...

The first thing I'm gonna reach my kid is that they are amazing, beautiful, and the best thing in the world... To me. But to the rest of the world, you're nothing. The world will not look at you the way I do. You have to contribute to the world for the world to give back to you. You can't sit and expect everything to be given to you.

Try having that conversation with someone who wasn't spanked

Um, what? I have had those conversations with those who were not spanked. You don't need violence to realize the harsh realities of the world. In fact, children learning the harsh realities of the world at an early age helps them better deal with it. Violence is not needed for that.

We actually shelter our children too much and spanking and whatnot stems from that.

So you think sitting your two year old down and having a conversation about how what they did was wrong will stop them from forever doing it again as opposed to a quick spank on the butt and a stern "DONT DO THAT"?

Kids that young don't understand. Maybe when they're 4, 5 or 6, but when they're 2 or 3, they don't understand right and wrong.
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I haven't hit my kids once and they behave fine. As long as you follow through with your threats, which is usually taking away something they like such as ice cream or toys or putting them in time out, they will respect your authority. Physical pain breeds fear and I for one want my kids coming to me with problems instead of becoming better liars because they don't want to get beaten.
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DoGCyN posted...

DoctorVader posted...

Those things go hand in hand. Working culture and pressure and suicide and honor killings and beating your kids. It stems from ignorance, lack of education, lack of control, etc

What is this dude? You've equated suicide with ignorance, lack of education, and lack of control? I've never seen a stupider comment on CE. Stop this. Suicide has many many more variables than what you just listed.

Also, I would argue the entire comment is lacking in any truth, as the rest of those have variables not listed. I'm not getting into this though. Just know that your comment regarding suicide actually triggered me

No, I'm saying one of the fallouts of a society that puts importance on honor is suicide. Learn to comprehend better before getting triggered. I'm not saying whatever you're thinking.

DavidWong posted...

So you think sitting your two year old down and having a conversation about how what they did was wrong will stop them from forever doing it again as opposed to a quick spank on the butt and a stern "DONT DO THAT"?

Kids that young don't understand. Maybe when they're 4, 5 or 6, but when they're 2 or 3, they don't understand right and wrong.

No, you give them timeouts or take away the toy they're playing. Spanking at that age is exactly where the mental issues begin.

The only evidence people on the "you should hit" side have is some anecdotal shit like "I turned out fine, must be true". That's all I'm getting itt.
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DoctorVader posted...

No, I'm saying one of the fallouts of a society that puts importance on honor is suicide. Learn to comprehend better before getting triggered. I'm not saying whatever you're thinking.

DoctorVader posted...

Those things go hand in hand. Working culture and pressure and suicide and honor killings and beating your kids. It stems from ignorance, lack of education, lack of control, etc. Honor is most definitely a HUGE thing in Asia, and honor killings is just one mere example.

This is literally what you said. I don't need to comprehend better as much you should carefully explain your side more carefully and clearly. I'm happy you didn't mean what you said though, because that would be tragic.
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DoGCyN posted...

This is literally what you said. I don't need to comprehend better as much you should carefully explain your side more carefully and clearly. I'm happy you didn't mean what you said though, because that would be tragic.

Um, nowhere am I saying what you're thinking.

I'm clearly talking about honor and trying to make a point. If you want clarity, you're free to ask instead of just jumping to crazy insinuations.
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belt smacks are about the same as spanking when done lightly.

i don't really see a difference here.
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Wutobliteration posted...

This is actually very normal and common in Asia, particularly among the Chinese. Amazing what a large ass contrast westerners have.

k. it's still abuse
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myzz7 posted...

belt smacks are about the same as spanking when done lightly.

i don't really see a difference here.

These sheltered people and I have a degree! parrots think a belt whooping is like being flayed.
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DavidWong posted...

So you think sitting your two year old down and having a conversation about how what they did was wrong will stop them from forever doing it again as opposed to a quick spank on the butt and a stern "DONT DO THAT"?

Why will spanking change that? As you said, they don't understand so all they know is the one who is meant to be helping then is now hurting them too.
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DoctorVader posted...

I'm clearly talking about honor and trying to make a point. If you want clarity, you're free to ask instead of just jumping to crazy insinuations.

Hey I just quoted exactly what you posted. I even read the context. It happens.
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DoctorVader posted...

Those things go hand in hand. Working culture and pressure and suicide and honor killings and beating your kids. It stems from ignorance, lack of education, lack of control, etc. Honor is most definitely a HUGE thing in Asia, and honor killings is just one mere example.
.

the only thing I see stemming from ignorance here is you. Asia? What Asia? This practice of honor killings is firstly, very rare, and secondly, only present mostly in countries in the middle east and only among the uneducated. And thirdly, those countries are distanced from this other corporal punishment of caning your child, which is an entirely different thing altogether practiced mostly in east asian countries like China and Korea. Westerners like you don't even know s*** about Asia, the biggest continent, yet group all the countries together like it's one big hivemind of the same culture.
Really, really, dumb comment you're making. And again, like someone pointed out, WTF does this caning have to do with freakin suicides and honor killings? You think a child gets caned then jumps off a building or something?

You want a good example of a country that whips/canes? Where I come from, Singapore, it's normal for older gen parents to cane their child. In schools, boys can get caned too. In fact I've been caned myself; do I look scarred or something? Does Singapore look like some 3rd world country to you? It's the country with the highest education quality in the world FYI.

This caning is not the s*** you see in prison camps or something. To see westerners call it abuse is really just plain laughable. At most, the caning just inflicts pain and goes away in less than 10 mins. Children see it as fearful like they see getting injected with a needle for a vaccine for the first time. No parent is crazy enough to cane the child till they bleed or some s***. It's a very temporary thing. It's the kind of caning that feels painful only for a child but as an adult, it just feels like someone slapping you lightly on the butt.
If anything, it has instead helped inculcate the Asian culture of children being filial to their parents, and obedient to a needed degree, not the rebellious teen common in western countries... underaged and already partying, drinking booze and having mindless sex.

cuttin_in_farm posted...

These sheltered people and I have a degree! parrots think a belt whooping is like being flayed.

I think the sheltered people are those who argue it's insignificant.

I grew up in Queens, NYC. It is the most ethnically diverse area on Earth period. I grew up around people from all countries and all walks of life and I saw what part parenting had on their lifestyles.

The violent ones or the ones with behavioral and psychological problems were always the ones with parents who were either control freaks, abusive psychologically or emotionally or completely neglectful altogether. Those kids couldn't wait to get away from their parents and do crazy ass shit. Those that had stuff like groundings and time outs or lost privileges turned out way better.

And now studies have been done that pretty much show exactly what I experienced.

It's the modern day equivalent of telling a Sun worshipper that his sacrifices are not what makes the Sun rise everyday, and that person just going "yeah ok buddy. Let's continue the sacrifices."

DoGCyN posted...

DoctorVader posted...

I'm clearly talking about honor and trying to make a point. If you want clarity, you're free to ask instead of just jumping to crazy insinuations.

Hey I just quoted exactly what you posted. I even read the context. It happens.

Even at face value, you interpreted it wrong. It's ok, it happens.
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And just to clear things up, I'm not saying I'm an advocate for whipping your child here, but simply, to call it abuse is downright dumb.
Cane or don't cane, it doesn't matter. It's just a strict way of parenting. Unless the parent starts actually beating the child up, swears at the child, locks the child up in a room or some s***, then yes, it's abuse. Caning a child occasionally for doing something morally wrong is not. Most parents cane their children but still cherish them and give them the love and care like any parent should do.
In fact, most millennial Asian parents no longer cane their children. But you can already tell how different in behaviour these new gen of children have become.

Wutobliteration posted...

the only thing I see stemming from ignorance here is you. Asia? What Asia? This practice of honor killings is firstly, very rare, and secondly, only present mostly in countries in the middle east and only among the uneducated. And thirdly, those countries are distanced from this other corporal punishment of caning your child, which is an entirely different thing altogether practiced mostly in east asian countries like China and Korea. Westerners like you don't even know s*** about Asia, the biggest continent, yet group all the countries together like it's one big hivemind of the same culture.
Really, really, dumb comment you're making. And again, like someone pointed out, WTF does this caning have to do with freakin suicides and honor killings? You think a child gets caned then jumps off a building or something?

Alright bro. You've clearly gotten too emotional over this. If you actually read and understood what I'm saying, 90% of this paragraph doesn't even make sense. Let's see the rest. You clearly have a bias going against the West.

Wutobliteration posted...

You want a good example of a country that whips/canes? Where I come from, Singapore, it's normal for older gen parents to cane their child. In schools, boys can get caned too. In fact I've been caned myself; do I look scarred or something? Does Singapore look like some 3rd world country to you? It's the country with the highest education quality in the world FYI.

Oh boy, I'm not even gonna get started on the issues with Singapore and how education quality isn't as important as you might think it is.

Wutobliteration posted...

This caning is not the s*** you see in prison camps or something. To see westerners call it abuse is really just plain laughable. At most, the caning just inflicts pain and goes away in less than 10 mins. Children see it as fearful like they see getting injected with a needle for a vaccine for the first time. No parent is crazy enough to cane the child till they bleed or some s***. It's a very temporary thing. It's the kind of caning that feels painful only for a child but as an adult, it just feels like someone slapping you lightly on the butt.
If anything, it has instead helped inculcate the Asian culture of children being filial to their parents, and obedient to a needed degree, not the rebellious teen common in western countries... underaged and already partying, drinking booze and having mindless sex.

LMFAO.

Yeah bro. You've lost it. Studies state the opposite of everything you're saying. I'm sorry. Science trumps your personal feelings.
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Wutobliteration posted...

And just to clear things up, I'm not saying I'm an advocate for whipping your child here, but simply, to call it abuse is downright dumb.

It is. But people here will keep equating it.
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in NJ it is
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DoctorVader

Oh boy, I'm not even gonna get started on the issues with Singapore and how education quality isn't as important as you might think it is.

because you don't even know Singapore. I literally gave you an example of a country that completely disproves your point and you'd rather ignore it, because y'know, it's unarguable, isn't it?

LMFAO.

Yeah bro. You've lost it. Studies state the opposite of everything you're saying. I'm sorry. Science trumps your personal feelings.

because basing your argument solely on some unknown statistic you found and a statistic that has nothing to even do with corporal punishment yet you're somehow relating it to that like you somehow related from goodness knows where, suicide and honor killings, IS VERY logical and reasonable indeed.
And basing that on a country you otherwise don't know a crap about is far more reliable than someone who actually lives in said country and region.