Current Events > Just came on the internet and found out there's people defending The Last Jedi

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Swagnificent119
02/15/18 10:24:24 PM
#51:


SlashmanSG posted...
Well, it was the best Star Wars movie since ESB.


This is what gets me.

Like, yeah, it was a film with problems or whatever but we have more mediocre to bad star wars films than good ones anyways.

No need to get upset on either side, really.
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Cj_WlLL_VVlN
02/15/18 10:25:17 PM
#52:


electricbugs2 posted...
lol look at this man fall apart over a children's movie.

SlashmanSG posted...
Well, it was the best Star Wars movie since ESB.

Also, this.


You guys have bad opinions.
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electricbugs2
02/15/18 10:27:12 PM
#53:


Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...
You guys have bad opinions.

Well if it makes you feel better I went in fully expecting to hate it.

But as usual the hate was way overblown (TFA) and the critics were mostly right.
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The_Ivory_Man
02/15/18 10:28:57 PM
#54:


dave_is_slick posted...
TrollSlayer11 posted...
And he tries to kill his nephew, the son of his twin sister and best friend, his youngest relative and only living relative outside of Leia, he tries to KILL HIM IN HIS SLEEP cuz he thought he would be evil in the future?

No he didn't. He ignited his saber in extreme fear of the massive dark presence he felt, but literally a half second later realized what in the fuck he was doing. Unfortunately, that half second was all it took.


"Whoah guys he may have stood over his nephew with a loaded gun pointed at his head, but he never pulled the trigger so in reality it's all fine."

He went in there thinking about killing him and drew his saber with the intention.

Pulling back just at the end doesn't mean it wasn't horribly out of character.
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ThanksUglyGod
02/15/18 10:32:59 PM
#55:


We're not talking about that movie anymore.

It was great, we debated it, and now we're moving on.
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TrollSlayer11
02/15/18 10:37:52 PM
#56:


ThanksUglyGod posted...
We're not talking about that movie anymore.

It was great, we debated it, and now we're moving on.


There's no debate. It's an objectively horrible film
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marthsheretoo
02/15/18 10:51:39 PM
#57:


TLJ did some things well but for the most part, it's a mess from a thematic/character/plot/lore perspective. I can go into more detail in a couple hours.

Would be a decent popcorn flick as a standalone but as part of a larger universe, and even just as a sequel to TFA (which was actually a worse movie!), it doesn't mesh. I wish Rian had tried harder in this regard and I'm tentatively eager to see what he does with his own trilogy where he doesn't have to acknowledge someone else's vision.
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TrollSlayer11
02/15/18 10:56:03 PM
#58:


marthsheretoo posted...
TLJ did some things well but for the most part, it's a mess from a thematic/character/plot/lore perspective. I can go into more detail in a couple hours.

Would be a decent popcorn flick as a standalone but as part of a larger universe, and even just as a sequel to TFA (which was actually a worse movie!), it doesn't mesh. I wish Rian had tried harder in this regard and I'm tentatively eager to see what he does with his own trilogy where he doesn't have to acknowledge someone else's vision.


I'll never forgive Rian Johnson for this nor will I ever pay for any other Star Wars film again.
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RECON64bit
02/15/18 10:56:41 PM
#59:


These movies could use some world building. Right now I don't care about any of the characters. The MC did nothing for the majority of the movie.
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sylverlolol
02/15/18 10:57:27 PM
#60:


StormSignal posted...
Not That Bad

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ThanksUglyGod
02/15/18 11:01:13 PM
#61:


TrollSlayer11 posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...
We're not talking about that movie anymore.

It was great, we debated it, and now we're moving on.


There's no debate. It's an objectively horrible film

Ok.

You're wrong, but ok.
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cjsdowg
02/15/18 11:08:13 PM
#62:


For the people who liked it , did you even like Finn and Rose stuff?
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ThanksUglyGod
02/15/18 11:12:36 PM
#63:


cjsdowg posted...
For the people who liked it , did you even like Finn and Rose stuff?

I did. It was the weakest part of the movie, but I still liked Finn's arc from cowardly deserter to devoted member of the Resistance, and I felt Rose was the only one who really knew what the Resistance was fighting for.
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TrollSlayer11
02/15/18 11:14:41 PM
#64:


ThanksUglyGod posted...
cjsdowg posted...
For the people who liked it , did you even like Finn and Rose stuff?

I did. It was the weakest part of the movie, but I still liked Finn's arc from cowardly deserter to devoted member of the Resistance, and I felt Rose was the only one who really knew what the Resistance was fighting for.


What are you talking about? Rose catches him trying to desert again right when she's introduced as a character...

The character development in the new trilogies is god awful.
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electricbugs2
02/15/18 11:15:20 PM
#65:


cjsdowg posted...
For the people who liked it , did you even like Finn and Rose stuff?

I liked the environment better than the story surrounding it for that subplot.
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ThanksUglyGod
02/15/18 11:16:28 PM
#66:


TrollSlayer11 posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...
cjsdowg posted...
For the people who liked it , did you even like Finn and Rose stuff?

I did. It was the weakest part of the movie, but I still liked Finn's arc from cowardly deserter to devoted member of the Resistance, and I felt Rose was the only one who really knew what the Resistance was fighting for.


What are you talking about? Rose catches him trying to desert again right when she's introduced as a character...

The character development in the new trilogies is god awful.

Yeah, at the beginning of the movie. By the end, he's willing to die for the Resistance and Rose was a big part of that.
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marthsheretoo
02/15/18 11:16:30 PM
#67:


ThanksUglyGod posted...
cjsdowg posted...
For the people who liked it , did you even like Finn and Rose stuff?

I did. It was the weakest part of the movie, but I still liked Finn's arc from cowardly deserter to devoted member of the Resistance, and I felt Rose was the only one who really knew what the Resistance was fighting for.


The one he went through in TFA?
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cjsdowg
02/15/18 11:19:20 PM
#68:


ThanksUglyGod posted...

I did. It was the weakest part of the movie, but I still liked Finn's arc from cowardly deserter to devoted member of the Resistance, and I felt Rose was the only one who really knew what the Resistance was fighting for.


That was the same arc that he had in the last movie.
Dude was about to run away he saw the power of the first order and ran into hell to get rey. Then when Rey was down .. dude took on Kylo Ren. I mean that is where all that fake marketing got those cool pictures from.

And at the start of this movie he is not running because he is scared he is running to SAVE the one he loves. Then he goes right back into hell seconds after that plan falls apart. This idea that he is a coward that keeps cowarding seems like something that was addressed in the last movie and within mins in this movie.


Rose is a horrible character by the by. All she was there to do was to take the agency away from Finn and explain things that he should know.
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TrollSlayer11
02/15/18 11:20:33 PM
#69:


ThanksUglyGod posted...
TrollSlayer11 posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...
cjsdowg posted...
For the people who liked it , did you even like Finn and Rose stuff?

I did. It was the weakest part of the movie, but I still liked Finn's arc from cowardly deserter to devoted member of the Resistance, and I felt Rose was the only one who really knew what the Resistance was fighting for.


What are you talking about? Rose catches him trying to desert again right when she's introduced as a character...

The character development in the new trilogies is god awful.

Yeah, at the beginning of the movie. By the end, he's willing to die for the Resistance and Rose was a big part of that.


That was the same exact arc he had in TFA. Holy shit you people have to be trolling at this point.
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ThanksUglyGod
02/15/18 11:25:03 PM
#70:


TrollSlayer11 posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...
TrollSlayer11 posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...
cjsdowg posted...
For the people who liked it , did you even like Finn and Rose stuff?

I did. It was the weakest part of the movie, but I still liked Finn's arc from cowardly deserter to devoted member of the Resistance, and I felt Rose was the only one who really knew what the Resistance was fighting for.


What are you talking about? Rose catches him trying to desert again right when she's introduced as a character...

The character development in the new trilogies is god awful.

Yeah, at the beginning of the movie. By the end, he's willing to die for the Resistance and Rose was a big part of that.


That was the same exact arc he had in TFA. Holy shit you people have to be trolling at this point.

Finn didn't care about the Resistance in TFA. He went to Starkiller Base just to save Rey. Holy shit do you guys even watch these movies?
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action52
02/15/18 11:28:50 PM
#71:


They're good movies, TrellSlayer11.
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cjsdowg
02/15/18 11:38:06 PM
#72:


ThanksUglyGod posted...

Finn didn't care about the Resistance in TFA. He went to Starkiller Base just to save Rey. Holy s*** do you guys even watch these movies?


Rey is the seemingly one of the most important members of the Resistant , saving Rey.. saves the Resistant.
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ThanksUglyGod
02/15/18 11:44:52 PM
#73:


cjsdowg posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...

Finn didn't care about the Resistance in TFA. He went to Starkiller Base just to save Rey. Holy s*** do you guys even watch these movies?


Rey is the seemingly one of the most important members of the Resistant , saving Rey.. saves the Resistant.

Rey wasn't a member of the Resistance in TFA. Nobody even knew how important Rey was until the end of TLJ.
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AvantgardeAClue
02/15/18 11:45:13 PM
#74:


That movie was a fucking travesty.

I played some KOTOR and cheered myself up
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Cj_WlLL_VVlN
02/15/18 11:45:49 PM
#75:


cjsdowg posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...

Finn didn't care about the Resistance in TFA. He went to Starkiller Base just to save Rey. Holy s*** do you guys even watch these movies?


Rey is the seemingly one of the most important members of the Resistant , saving Rey.. saves the Resistant.


Every post you've made itt, besides calling me will, has been a good post.
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cjsdowg
02/15/18 11:50:17 PM
#76:


ThanksUglyGod posted...

Rey wasn't a member of the Resistance in TFA. Nobody even knew how important Rey was until the end of TLJ.


They didn't know she was important, yet they sent her to find Luke, and mission they had be building up to for years. You don't give a nobody that mission.
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cjsdowg
02/15/18 11:50:57 PM
#77:


Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Every post you've made itt, besides calling me will, has been a good post.


LOL it is just so odd calling someone else CJ.
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ThanksUglyGod
02/15/18 11:56:34 PM
#78:


cjsdowg posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...

Rey wasn't a member of the Resistance in TFA. Nobody even knew how important Rey was until the end of TLJ.


They didn't know she was important, yet they sent her to find Luke, and mission they had be building up to for years. You don't give a nobody that mission.

Did they? It seemed to me like she just decided, "I'm gonna go find Luke, seeing as I already got his lightsaber and I've got questions," and nobody seemed to argue with her. Finn certainly didn't know she was important to the Resistance, seeing as he was unconscious.
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ASithLord7
02/15/18 11:58:21 PM
#79:


dave_is_slick posted...
ASithLord7 posted...
Are you referring to me saying how the creators of the story have said not every character is a reliable narrator that should be taken at face value?

Yes because that is clearly a statement made to try to appease people who rightfully pointed out that massive break.

Except it was said before this movie

Sorry brah
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cjsdowg
02/16/18 12:09:46 AM
#80:


ThanksUglyGod posted...

Did they? It seemed to me like she just decided, "I'm gonna go find Luke, seeing as I already got his lightsaber and I've got questions," and nobody seemed to argue with her. Finn certainly didn't know she was important to the Resistance, seeing as he was unconscious.


She had R2, and she had a tracker given to her Leia. This would seem to suggest that she was picked of this job. However to the bigger point.

Rose-Thats how were going to win. Not fighting what we hate. Saving what we love

This is literally what Finn was trying to do when he was going to leave, he was saving Rey.
Next when he was running to the gun, he was trying to save everyone else.
If Luke didn't show up they would have been setting ducks .

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Cj_WlLL_VVlN
02/16/18 1:51:23 AM
#81:


cjsdowg posted...
Cj_WlLL_VVlN posted...

Every post you've made itt, besides calling me will, has been a good post.


LOL it is just so odd calling someone else CJ.


I'll go by Chris from now on. Cj was just initials. Don't go by it irl.
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ThanksUglyGod
02/16/18 1:59:59 AM
#82:


cjsdowg posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...

Did they? It seemed to me like she just decided, "I'm gonna go find Luke, seeing as I already got his lightsaber and I've got questions," and nobody seemed to argue with her. Finn certainly didn't know she was important to the Resistance, seeing as he was unconscious.


She had R2, and she had a tracker given to her Leia. This would seem to suggest that she was picked of this job. However to the bigger point.

Rose-Thats how were going to win. Not fighting what we hate. Saving what we love

This is literally what Finn was trying to do when he was going to leave, he was saving Rey.
Next when he was running to the gun, he was trying to save everyone else.
If Luke didn't show up they would have been setting ducks .

Finn wanted to save Rey and get away from the war. It was a selfish reason.
Rose saved Finn because he's become one of the best Resistance soldiers, and him sacrificing himself on a gambit that wasn't likely to succeed (like everything else in this movie) would've been a waste of a good soldier and a close friend. She knew that the Resistance needed as many allies as they could get, not to fight today, but for the chance to fight another day.
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Banjo2553
02/16/18 2:03:55 AM
#83:


So I'm wrong and a waste of space for liking this movie, right TC? I just wanted to make sure...
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cjsdowg
02/16/18 2:15:53 AM
#84:


ThanksUglyGod posted...
Finn wanted to save Rey and get away from the war. It was a selfish reason.
Rose saved Finn because he's become one of the best Resistance soldiers, and him sacrificing himself on a gambit that wasn't likely to succeed (like everything else in this movie) would've been a waste of a good soldier and a close friend. She knew that the Resistance needed as many allies as they could get, not to fight today, but for the chance to fight another day.



At that point, that was the best chance that they had. If Luke didn't show up they would all have been killed. And it was no way that could have been predicted. Hell what she did should have gotten them both killed. BTW did you noticed how Rose main goal was to take away Finn's agncey .
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TrollSlayer11
02/16/18 3:37:26 AM
#85:


Banjo2553 posted...
So I'm wrong and a waste of space for liking this movie, right TC?


Yep.

I just wanted to make sure...


Happy to clarify that for you.
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marthsheretoo
02/16/18 4:03:31 AM
#86:


ThanksUglyGod posted...
cjsdowg posted...
ThanksUglyGod posted...

Did they? It seemed to me like she just decided, "I'm gonna go find Luke, seeing as I already got his lightsaber and I've got questions," and nobody seemed to argue with her. Finn certainly didn't know she was important to the Resistance, seeing as he was unconscious.


She had R2, and she had a tracker given to her Leia. This would seem to suggest that she was picked of this job. However to the bigger point.

Rose-Thats how were going to win. Not fighting what we hate. Saving what we love

This is literally what Finn was trying to do when he was going to leave, he was saving Rey.
Next when he was running to the gun, he was trying to save everyone else.
If Luke didn't show up they would have been setting ducks .

Finn wanted to save Rey and get away from the war. It was a selfish reason.
Rose saved Finn because he's become one of the best Resistance soldiers, and him sacrificing himself on a gambit that wasn't likely to succeed (like everything else in this movie) would've been a waste of a good soldier and a close friend. She knew that the Resistance needed as many allies as they could get, not to fight today, but for the chance to fight another day.


"Saved"

by crashing into him at high speed and leaving them both sitting ducks for a full line of giant evil tanks that should realistically have just fired and killed them both before Rose could force herself on Finn
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Swagnificent119
02/16/18 8:19:04 AM
#87:


I'm pretty sure that Episode IX could just be a 2 hour shot of someone shitting on a copy of ESB and there are some people that would say it's a good movie.
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The_Ivory_Man
02/16/18 8:26:06 AM
#88:


Swagnificent119 posted...
I'm pretty sure that Episode IX could just be a 2 hour shot of someone shitting on a copy of ESB and there are some people that would say it's a good movie.


But dude it like totally averts your expectation, so that makes it good.
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action52
02/16/18 8:45:51 AM
#89:


So what is your goal, TC? Do you want those of us who liked the movie and thought it was good? You want to stop us from enjoying it?

I mean my son and I had a really good time and we definitely want to see it a bunch more times on DVD. Is your end goal to destroy that for people like us?

Just wondering.
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The_Ivory_Man
02/16/18 9:21:22 AM
#90:


action52 posted...
So what is your goal, TC? Do you want those of us who liked the movie and thought it was good? You want to stop us from enjoying it?

I mean my son and I had a really good time and we definitely want to see it a bunch more times on DVD. Is your end goal to destroy that for people like us?

Just wondering.


People are upset a franchise they were fans of horribly disappointed them, some of these people have followed this franchise for decades and that disappointment is going to weight heavily. People like to rant about what they dislike.

And for a number of people it legitimately is hard for them to comprehend what people liked about TLJ. So they also want to know that.
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action52
02/16/18 10:03:40 AM
#91:


The_Ivory_Man posted...
And for a number of people it legitimately is hard for them to comprehend what people liked about TLJ. So they also want to know that.

Well people get tired of saying the same thing over and over again. It doesn't help knowing that every time we try to talk about what we like about the movie we'll be met with 1000+ word manifestos and hour long YouTube videos detailing how we're wrong and we'd better ADDRESS ALL THOSE POINTS or else our liking it is invalid or something.

I mean I do enjoy talking about the stuff I like in movies in general but it's not fun when I know I'm going to be attacked.
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cjsdowg
02/16/18 10:11:49 AM
#92:


action52 posted...

I mean I do enjoy talking about the stuff I like in movies in general but it's not fun when I know I'm going to be attacked.


No one should be attacked, but that comes from both sides. People who hate the movie.

Get called Fan Boys, People say that didn't like just because it wasn't what they were expecting, people say they are stuck in the past ect.
However good conversation can be found with this movie since people have such wildly different views on it. Like for example while I hate Twilight, I can understand while their fan base likes it. I cannot get why the Star Wars fan base would like what they did with Luke. (To me) It is like if they made John McClane a racist cop and dirty in the next movie. And when people complained others just said oh subversion.
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thelovefist
02/16/18 10:19:10 AM
#93:


I personally loved the movie.
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action52
02/16/18 11:05:17 AM
#94:


cjsdowg posted...
I cannot get why the Star Wars fan base would like what they did with Luke. (To me) It is like if they made John McClane a racist cop and dirty in the next movie. And when people complained others just said oh subversion.

Well I've said it before but I didn't see it as out of character. The first thing people say is that he would never attack his own nephew. To which I say, if he was channeling the dark side enough he totally would. If he fell to the dark side enough--and no force user is immune--he would destroy everyone and everything he loved.

But of course he didn't really attack. He thought about it for a second. Which I find understandable for anyone who sees a vision of someone becoming worse than Hitler was. Especially when that nephew is going to undo everything he worked for. Remember when the Emperor cackled at Luke because it looked like all his friends were going to die and the Rebellion was going to be crushed? And then he gave in to his anger, grabbed the light saber, and lashed out? Well here it's like he was seeing the Emperor being proven right. So all of that bringing out the dark side enough to make him consider killing his nephew for a second, that I can totally believe.

And then afterward to know that his failure brought this about. Plus, at this point he obviously knew about the Jedi Order, their hubris, and how the Jedi way essentially brought about Anakin's turn while allowing the Empire to grow right under their noses... This makes him essentially decide he and the Jedi are making everything worse. So he decided the Jedi should die and lapsed into depression.

But I thought the movie did a great job of showing Rey bringing him out. Usually movies make it seem to easy but it's a real process that hits the notes that would resonate well with Luke.

I also think the final confrontation is great. I did kind of want to see Luke come in and wreck everything with godlike force powers similar to Vader at the end of Rogue One... but this is better. He really wrecks Kylo Ren on such a deep level, and in a way that feels more "Jedi" to me than a show of force.

It also helps that Hamill's performance is so amazing. He just hits it out of the park in every scene.

And I think all the acting is good in this movie. Cinematography is maybe the best ever for Star Wars.

I'm not saying the movie is perfect but the parts that were good, I really loved.
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The_Ivory_Man
02/16/18 11:30:11 AM
#95:


The thing is, Luke always pushed through everything, he fails every step of the way through the original trilogy with one success, until RotJ where he returns finally having command and being in charge.

He abandoned his training to save his friends when he felt the slightest inkling that they were in trouble, and risks everything on a gambit to save the friend he failed.

A 23 year old man lashing out in anger at the most powerful dark side user of all time influencing him is a totally different situation than a 48(?) Year old contemplating killing his sleeping nephew. The thing is the decision he makes by throwing away his lightsaber and saying "kill me then, I refuse" is the end of that arc.

And that's part of the problem with the sequels, the OT cast is reset. Luke has this dark side light side growth, Han is a smuggler, Liea is a Commander again. Just to rehash the same issues rather than see more growth in the new cast which we still know very little about. The only well developed one is Kylo.

Obi-Wan was finished, Yoda was finished. They didn't attempt to also focus on that many characters. Luke should have been finished and consistent rather than devoting another film, and it would be easy to keep it the same without forcing his character.

By having Luke take the development from the Prequels and keep the force out of political games, to become a pacifist after throwing away his lightsaber, or to have him take the gray Jedi view of the force is just a tool and not inherently good or evil.

Hamill delivers a great example of acting, but he doesn't like what they did and thinks it blatantly went against the character. Hamill said to play him, he had to think of him as an entirely different character, nicknaming him "Jake Skywalker" because he couldn't think of Luke being like that.
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hyperpsycho
02/16/18 12:13:56 PM
#96:


Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. That's the only way to become what you were meant to be.
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DarthAragorn
02/16/18 12:16:44 PM
#97:


hyperpsycho posted...
Let the past die. Kill it if you have to. That's the only way to become what you were meant to be.

So meta

It refers to how the series has to shit on the past characters to move on to being soulless trash
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Banjo2553
02/16/18 12:17:00 PM
#98:


TrollSlayer11 posted...

._.
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TrueNeutral
02/16/18 12:24:49 PM
#99:


People who liked/loved it are actually in the majority

I don't know why that's such a hard concept for the people who dislike it to understand, and why they have to be such bitter douchebags towards people who liked it
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The_Ivory_Man
02/16/18 1:22:03 PM
#100:


TrueNeutral posted...
People who liked/loved it are actually in the majority

I don't know why that's such a hard concept for the people who dislike it to understand, and why they have to be such bitter douchebags towards people who liked it


That's definitely debatable.

It has a low reviews from user review sites and plenty of articles have been written about the reaction to it.

While it's possible more people liked it, I wouldn't argue anything more than mixed on either side.
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"Just because someone is killed doesn't mean they died" - Shojikan
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