Board 8 > Suppose I wanted to finally get into the Shin Megami Tensei/Persona series

(+) Yeah! (+)

As someone who enjoys going all-in on canon, what would be the best way to play through the series?

I know next to nothing about the lore, but is there one game that really is required playing to fully enjoy the others?
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Persona and SMT aren't related in terms of plot/canon, so you don't necessarily have to play both.
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LeonhartFour posted...

Persona and SMT aren't related in terms of plot/canon, so you don't necessarily have to play both.

Then how are they related? And how is MT related to SMT? Wikipedia is too confusing
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They originally stuck the Shin Megami Tensei title on Persona for the English releases just to attach it to an already established series in hopes it would help it sell

now that Persona is way more popular than SMT for English audiences they don't do that anymore

I don't know much of anything about SMT so I can't help you there, but I think they share a lot of the same lore in terms of the types of demons and other spirit beings that are in each series
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I was under the impression that Persona takes place in post apocalyptic Tokyo and SMT is the story of the apocalypse. Hopefully that's not a spoiler?
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beats me

I just know you can hop right into Persona 3 and be perfectly fine
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LeonhartFour posted...

beats me

I just know you can hop right into Persona 3 and be perfectly fine

Have you played the first 2?
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I have not.
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Persona games all have different settings and have some references to one another but aren't related plotwise. I haven't ever played smt, but i believe they're similar to the persona games without the non-battling parts (so basically just full on dungeon crawler).

I tried p1 after playing p3, before p4 came out.
It hasn't aged well at all. They had some interesting ideas there, but there's a reason that it was p5 that made the series explode in popularity.
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Persona is a bunch of high-school students, so...

Persona games are social sims with JRPG combat, the SMT games are straight JRPGs but often with unusual turn mechanics, and then there's stuff like the Devil Survivor stuff which is an SRPG. For the most part, each game is unconnected plotwise to the other games, but they often share similar themes and there's a lot of demons that show up in a lot of games.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

I was under the impression that Persona takes place in post apocalyptic Tokyo and SMT is the story of the apocalypse. Hopefully that's not a spoiler?

This isn't the case, the games are completely separate from one another. The Persona games take place in a modern, (mostly) normal society. SMT games usually have apocalyptic themes, though.

Personally I'd say 3 is harder to go back to after playing 4 and especially 5, but it's still a great game so start there. Then you can play 4 afterward and if you really like both maybe check out Nocturne (SMT3) as a break before playing P5.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

LeonhartFour posted...

Persona and SMT aren't related in terms of plot/canon, so you don't necessarily have to play both.

Then how are they related? And how is MT related to SMT? Wikipedia is too confusing

Shin Megami Tensei is the "main series" of JRPGs. They're like the numbered Final Fantasy games.
Megami Tensei is the name of the overall franchise in Japan. This includes games such as Persona, Devil Summoner, and Devil Survivor, which are ostensibly spinoffs of SMT, despite not saying "Megami Tensei" on the box anymore. Except in America, they just translated all the various prefixes of "Megami x" as "Shin Megami Tensei" so it's used in the west to refer to the franchise by most people, in addition to MT/MegaTen. This leads to people thinking Persona isn't part of the franchise, as you see in this topic! Fun and not confusing!

Good entry points for MegaTen are:
- SMT3: Nocturne
- SMTIV
- Any Persona past 3
- Devil Survivor (Overclocked) if you like SRPGs
- Digital Devil Saga if you want something much more like a traditional JRPG (no monster recruitment)
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start with SMT don't do MT
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Oh and since you mention liking going all-in on canon. There is a very loosely established multiverse and most of the games can technically be connected to each other, though it mostly amounts to minor plot elements connecting random games. If you want to go that route then you do want to play the SNES ones at some point, but starting with those will probably just make you hate everything.

and yeah ignore the actual Megami Tensei games
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Thanks bros. Expected more debate.
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The only games that are connected are the Persona games really

But even then they're not like, plot connected, its just references to previous games/character cameos and stuff that makes you go "oooh that's what that character is up to now!" and never ties into anything going on in the game you're playing.

SMT games are, as said, all basically in different worlds in a multiverse and don't really relate at all. There are a few exceptions here and there but even for those they don't really require you to play any other games.

Where the hell am I getting that apocalypse thing from?
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SMT is like Law and Order Criminal Intent and Persona is like Law and Order SVU
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

Where the hell am I getting that apocalypse thing from?

Almost all the ACTUAL SMT games are post apocalypse.

Putting SMT in front of Persona is like how they changed a couple of the old Square RPGs to have Final Fantasy in the name in the US.
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Apocalypse was the sequel to IV.
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foolm0r0n posted...

SMT is like Law and Order Criminal Intent and Persona is like Law and Order SVU

This explains everything
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Also the only actually conundrum here is P3 vs P4 to start. Playing P3 after P4 would be...rough. Mechanically it's an enormous downgrade. People who played P3 before and got invested in the story would cry foul at the idea, but I know people who have bounced off of Persona entirely because of how...unfriendly P3 is to it's players.

That said, P3 has a great story, so it's not like it's a bad game that you should skip. You just have to be aware you're going into a game that is 90% different colored randomly generated dungeons with mechanics forcing you to do sections over multiple days rather than tackling it all at once. It can be frustrating. I never finished and I can never go back.
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SMT as a whole tends to veer towards dystopia, depressing, and cataclysmic events. Persona (3 to a lesser extent), has a lot more whimsy and slice of life moments of fun. SMT also has a more straightforward RPG/dungeon crawl situation going. Persona does for the first 2, but it got popular following the "daily life/dating simulator" starting with 3.

I wouldn't say Persona is all that hard of a franchise...but it can be cheap as shit. The mobile games and 5 tend to break the difficulty into pieces due to some design choices with the support characters.

I won't say each game in the franchises are good (cause P1 and P2 have some REALLY slow ass battles in the remakes). I think stick with SMT if you want more gameplay, difficulty, and threatening/horror vibes. Persona is great for characters and their daily struggles.

For the spinoffs, Devil Survivor is one of the few SRPG games I liked, and PQ was a good dungeon crawl with a distinctly different flavor (basically a different game franchise with Persona characters instead).
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Also, playing P3, P4, or P5 first really depends on your thought process.

P3

- "Older" characters (they do not act like teenagers)
- Setting is more urban (in line with the typical SMT environments)
- Main character can change weapon types (swords, bows, clubs, spears, boxing gloves)
- Story is tragic/more mature/darker in tone (thought SMT bends way further)
- AI-controlled allies can be a pain, but I appreciate it as a change of pace
- Great/Good/Tired/Sick mechanics (extra status based on daily choices/battle; adds to realism)
- one main (procedural-generated) dungeon
- Better at "pacing" than P4 and P5 (this game kinda runs in a symmetrical pattern)

P4

- Better party/characters (they feel like a group, and act like a group...but are total morons)
- several themed dungeons (still weak in the actual style department)
- Better gameplay than P3 (full party control/better at describing skills/S. Link abilities affect battles)
- Funny as shit (so many great moments)
- Story slows down about halfway, going into filler for a "month," before picking back up

P5

- A mix of P3's tragic and P4's comedic tones
- GREAT soundtrack (not saying the others are bad...this is just REALLY good)
- Amazing style
- Best dungeon design (because they were themed rather than randomly generated)
- Characters suffer (less world building - a lot of the game is done via text)
- Same pacing problems as P4 (Here's a major plot point. No fun time for you. Go to bed loser)

I like P3 for the darker tone and story moments, P4 for characters, cutscenes, and comedy, and P5 is just dripping in style, music, dungeon design, and ambience.
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Strife2 posted...

PQ was a good dungeon crawl with a distinctly different flavor (basically a different game franchise with Persona characters instead).

Strange Journey is much better if you want a dungeon-crawler. PQ is fine but it's too much of an "easy" Etrian Odyssey game with Persona fanservice. And SJ is getting a 3DS remake soon too!
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P3 is brutal if you've only play stuff like Final Fantasy

Persona games also have a lot of missable stuff so if you're OCD about getting EVERYTHING in a playthrough then you need a guide to plan your days
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HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

Strife2 posted...

PQ was a good dungeon crawl with a distinctly different flavor (basically a different game franchise with Persona characters instead).

Strange Journey is much better if you want a dungeon-crawler. PQ is fine but it's too much of an "easy" Etrian Odyssey game with Persona fanservice. And SJ is getting a 3DS remake soon too!

But that fanservice is great...for one dungeon anyway. It's too bad most of the other dungeons are terrible. Dungeon 3 can fuck off.
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If you start with P3, I suggest starting with P3P. You have greater control over battles and it's overall a pretty swell interface.

colliding posted...

If you start with P3, I suggest starting with P3P. You have greater control over battles and it's overall a pretty swell interface.

Yeah I think this was the consensus I've heard over the years. This version includes the epilogue or whatever too right?
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

This version includes the epilogue or whatever too right?

You probably mean P3: The Answer and no, P3P doesn't include that, but you can easily watch the cutscenes on YouTube and from what I've heard about the gameplay that's a superior experience than playing it
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Personally I'd recommend the PS2 version of P3. The gameplay is better in P3P but losing the anime cutscenes isn't worth it.
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I mean, after 100-120 hours, you can't be blamed. Every time I replay The Journey, I say I'm going to play the Answer at least once, yet never do.
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Persona is a spinoff of smt if, which is a spinoff of smt 1. but nu persona just kind of takes a dump all over the existing persona concepts and lore and whatever and does its own chuunibyou themed thing so it isn't necessary to play the older games before p3 on, or smt before persona.

I'd probably start with Nocturne if you think you can handle it, most of the pre Nocturne games aren't terribly worth playing if you aren't interested in the series and it introduced a lot of the base mechanics than later games refined. if it doesn't click maybe try one of the newer persona games or others.
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GranzonEx posted...

P3 is brutal if you've only play stuff like Final Fantasy

As someone whose JRPG experience is like 50% Square stuff, it's not that bad.
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Not having control of the party is just a hard no for me.

I would hate it even if the game was super easy.
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It's annoying, but I got used to it.
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eh as far as p3 goes.

difficulty in dungeons against randoms are basically nonexistent.

dungeon bosses are pretty obnoxious either mostly because you can't control the entire party (sleeping table) or are deliberately designed to spite you (world balance or fes in general.

story bosses are mostly easy, but can get long. particularly the final if you don't just armageddon it at the last phase
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Mr Crispy posted...

sleeping table

https://assets.vg247.com/current//2017/09/Flashback-600x338.jpg
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P3 spoilers

man the table was annoying

Nothing came close, not even 3 Hulk Hogans
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LeonhartFour posted...

GranzonEx posted...

P3 is brutal if you've only play stuff like Final Fantasy

As someone whose JRPG experience is like 50% Square stuff, it's not that bad.

Same except it's more like 75% square

That 25% non-square stuff is so insanely terrible (and some square stuff too) that P3 is very easy to get into. Also P3 has one of the strongest openings of any game, it's only really the middle that can drag, but you're already hooked by then.
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just don't play The Answer

never play The Answer
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Why is Megami Tensei off limit? is it that hard or bad or something?
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Megami Tensei is a licensed game, not made by Atlus, and doesn't really have anything to do with smt besides the whole edgy high school student with a demon summoning program on his computer concept.
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Mr Crispy posted...

Megami Tensei is a licensed game, not made by Atlus, and doesn't really have anything to do with smt besides the whole edgy high school student with a demon summoning program on his computer concept.

The Famicom version is absolutely made by Atlus. There was a different Megami Tensei game also based on the book made by a different company for PCs, but the Famicom one is developed by Atlus, published by Namco.

If you decide to play regular Megami Tensei (which is more similar to classic SMT than people are leading you to believe, they're just not plot-related) then you should forget the Famicom version and look into Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei, which is a remake of MT1 and 2 for Super Famicom with many quality of life improvements. It has a translation patch
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As far as I'm aware, pretty much every game in the franchise is more or less standalone- there are cross references, recurring themes, and a fairly consistent cast of demons to fight/recruit, but only a handful of games whose plot can be considered a continuation of an earlier one to the extent that they have to be played in order.

In other words, find one that you like the look of and try it. If it doesn't click, try another one.
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