Board 8 > Ace Attorney Topic Part 2: The Continuation (Spoilers for AA1-6, AAI1-2)

(+) Yeah! (+)

LeonhartFour posted...

Apollo's always looked kind of rough in AJ, especially when he's nervous or surprised. Seriously, that damage animation where the entire right side of his mouth (and only the right side) drops is the weirdest thing ever.

I love that one though

The references to Maya sending Phoenix Steel Samurai/etc DVDs and making him write reports on them in 4-2 is SO much more fun and SO much less sad knowing that we do get to see Maya again and she's just not forgotten about.

I think my entire opinion of AA4 is going to be a bit less pessimistic in general now that I know that the series really did have a bright future. I still expect this to be my least favorite game though.

To reiterate on the fast-scrolling text thing - I don't mean skipping text, but when you just hit the button/tap the window again to make all the text appear. I like this on replays, I wanna get through things a bit quicker, especially the slow parts. But yeah in 3DS AA4 tapping the screen NEVER does this, EVEN WITH REPEAT TEXT (the only game in the series that doesn't do this!). But the A button will always do it, even if the text is not repeat (like AAT). Blugh. I'll live with it I guess.

I still don't like how the game goes out of its way not to make direct references to the OT though. Like, you know he means Maya, but he's just like "some kid I know keeps sending them to me."

I'm not even joking but the moment DD eased my fears and let me know everything was going to be okay again was during 5-2 when Phoenix actually made a direct reference to 2-2 and its similar closed room mystery, and even Franziska, too!
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Yeah, I agree with that completely. I can only accept the "some kid" reference knowing that stuff turned out okay later.

I still think I could have accepted a totally clean break in AA4, which makes what they ACTUALLY did so weird. It's like they were trying to put the OT aside but then they made the game about Phoenix anyway!

Yeah, I've often said I'd probably like AJ a lot more if Hobonix just weren't Phoenix Wright. He'd be a fascinating completely new type of character for the series as a different person, and the fact that it's set seven years later gives you an excuse to leave everything from the OT behind (except the Judge, I guess). Phoenix is simultaneously AJ's greatest asset and greatest hindrance, which is a strange dichotomy.
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I'm not sure if Apollo complaining about the day 1 investigation of 4-2 and how stupid it is makes it funny or just annoying. Apollo and Phoenix are kind of great though, there's some high tier snark.

Yeah, Apollo is really good there despite his own game trying to undermine him.
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day 1 of 4-2 is awesome all around!
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4-2 day 1 is the worst investigation day in the series
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i have it as one of the more memorable (in a good way) investigation days
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The only good thing about the investigation day is that Apollo finds it as stupid as I do.
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it's certainly unique
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"Lamiroir, could you take a look at this?"
"...I'm not sure what to say"

Smooth, Apollo

Also it took me like 15 minutes to figure out what I was supposed to examine to move this investigation forward and it was some postcards on a table. ugh

Yeah, AJ's investigations can be kind of unintuitive at times. Not 1-5 levels of bad in that regard, but AJ makes you do everything in a very specific order during investigations, so if you miss something, you're stuck until you find it. I didn't even notice that about the game until the last time I played it. In the OT, you have options in the order you tackle stuff and you can trigger multiple things at once, even if they result in a dead end Psyche-Lock that you can't break until you do something else. In AJ, only one thing triggers at a time, so you can find yourself going to every area in the investigation and literally nothing is new anywhere because you failed to click on something.
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hey guys

5-6 > 5-5
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did you finish?
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yeah

the dissin' of phoenix wright is a top 5 moment in the series
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how could someone possibly think 5-6 > 5-5

if they hadn't finished the case yet
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I love the Dissin' of Phoenix Wright

Though the fact that it's the last testimony of that case kinda sits weirdly with me. I think it has to do with the weird pacing that Leon brought up earlier.
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yeah 5-6 is great. I think it's right there with 5-5. actually it's the opposite - 5-6 starts slow, ends super strong. Marlon is the best.
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5-6 day 1 is kinda boring, honestly. It doesn't really pick up until you meet Crab.

I always find myself in a weird position because I'm one of DD's biggest defenders but I think 5-6 is generally pretty overrated
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5-6 is the one case from that game that I like without reservation. 2, 3 and 5 all end kinda poorly and 4 is obviously incomplete.
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5-2's ending is great! It has Apollo finally having the balls to stand up to Blackquill, the surprisingly great plot twist that Damian Tenma was the Amazing Nine-Tails, and busting L'Belle with the white hair in the mask. It's a pretty strong ending, I think. It actually might be the best "total package" case in the game. Both investigation days and both trial days are good. Not necessarily great, but good. I also like the end of 5-3 better than you do, but 5-2's is better.

5-4 might have the best ending in the game though. I like that case quite a bit. Yuri Cosmos is one of the best witnesses from the new games. I don't have a problem with it being "incomplete" or whatever.
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(also Herman Crab is the secret best 5-6 character because he totally turns that case around and gets it moving in the right direction)
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Ehh, I tend to be down on 5-2 compared to the rest of Board 8, but 5-2 ends pretty strongly. The first half of Trial 2 is kinda whatever, but they move on to the main event pretty fast.

(also Herman Crab is the secret best 5-6 character because he totally turns that case around and gets it moving in the right direction)

this is complete truth

the true MVP of 5-6
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Yeah, I think 5-2 actually has a really solid ending (except the villain himself lacks). Thoroughly agreed with Leon on everything, and I'd add that the Secret of Tenma Taro to the list of cool things about that ending. Agreed with tran*y on everything else, especially that 5-6 is debeste.
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5-6 has a surprisingly solid cast all around
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Eh, you kinda figure out the secret of Tenma Taro during the second investigation day, even if the game doesn't outright say it.

also 5-2 and 5-6 are both really good and one of them isn't even in the upper half of best cases in its own game

which is why DD is the second best game in the series
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SeabassDebeste posted...

5-6 has a surprisingly solid cast all around

Eh, Norma is not very good, and Sasha is one of the weaker defendants in the series. I think pre-transformation Rimes is kinda boring, too.

not surprisingly day 1 is kinda meh because that's who makes up day 1
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I should rephrase what I meant with 5-2. that last trial day really drags. the very end is good, yeah, but you go through so many mental gymnastics to get to that point. AA5 really stretches logic thin with its deductions and complicated murders. in a way, AA6 focusing on the seances helps keep it focused on a singular act and not this crazy web of murder and coverup.

I think the best thing about 5-2 is Apollo and Simon - and is best captured by day 1 trial which I think is better than day 2.
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transcience posted...

in a way, AA6 focusing on the seances helps keep it focused on a singular act and not this crazy web of murder and coverup.

I mean you still get that in the non-Khura'in cases (I'm still not entirely sure I get how 6-2's murder works)

transcience posted...

I think the best thing about 5-2 is Apollo and Simon - and is best captured by day 1 trial which I think is better than day 2.

Apollo vs. Blackquill is absolutely the best part about 5-2, but you need both parts to make it work. Apollo finally breaking through and besting Blackquill is only as satisfying as it is because he gets thoroughly dominated on day 1. Day 1 is overall better than day 2, but day 2 hits a higher peak when Apollo finally gets the better of him.
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I think day 1 hits a higher peak because the introduction of Simon is really good, as is the confession of Damian Tenma. I dunno, I'd have to play it again.
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i think i need a replay too, but my instinct agrees that day 1 is stronger due to simon, while day 2 has higher peak moments (at least plot-wise)

though blackquill breaking the perceive might be the best moment in both days
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Blackquill is great in 5-2. He owns that first day in almost every way, but it felt so good when Apollo finally got him (and told him to shut up because he's not done talking yet, so many respect points gained from that moment). Damian pretending to be Tenma Taro was good, but him turning out to actually be the Amazing Nine-Tails was better. That honestly might be the most clever twist in the entire game.
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It's a great twist because it totally turns the case upside down and makes the frame job go from "eh, we've seen this before" to "okay, that is really clever". 5-2 is just a really solid case throughout; I don't rank it as highly as 5-5 or 5-DLC but it's a well-executed case that does so little wrong.

I've been watching my wife play through SoJ recently and it occured to me that Simon is a huge part of why DD is a better game than SoJ for me. He's just such a great opponent; he cuts down bad arguments beautifully but has no patience for fools. He's the type of prosecutor who only works in cases where the situation is well-arrayed against the player (because he's very quick to turn on his own witnesses as soon as he figures out they're hiding things, unlike many of the rest who will happily prop them up in order to "win") but those are the best cases anyway. Having him actually on your side in 6-4 is cathartic.

transcience posted...

in a way, AA6 focusing on the seances helps keep it focused on a singular act and not this crazy web of murder and coverup.

I dunno, 6-2 and 6-3 are some of the craziest murder/coverups in the series (well, just the coverup in 6-3's case; the Zeh'lot murder is refreshingly straightforward, if highly improbably in that AA way).
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I've been starting to think recently that Apollo and Blackquill are actually my favorite characters in the series, not Phoenix and Edgeworth

it's crazy, yeah. but I don't think the mental gymnastics compare to AA5. they seem at least based in reality, unlike the madness that is 5-3 where you're just making stuff up on the fly. the OT is much better than either.

say hi to your wife for me! I haven't talked to her in forever
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the coverups have been insane for a long time. 3-3, 3-5, and 1-5 have some of the most ridiculous coverups (though unlike 5-3, they're all assisted).
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3-3 is an example of a good one! it's not convoluted, just a simple hoax.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

I've been starting to think recently that Apollo and Blackquill are actually my favorite characters in the series, not Phoenix and Edgeworth

They're possibly the best parts of 5 and 6, if nothing else.
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After a failed present against Machi/Lamiroir:

"Machi says, 'Try again, adhesive.' No, no, sorry. "Try again, sucker."

Also when you fail the perceive on him, Klavier says something about Apollo not having any intelligence behind his wide forehead, and Machi laughs out loud when Lamiroir interprets it for him

I am seriously finding a new love for Machi in this case right now, he's kind of great

Yeah, Machi's not bad when he actually does stuff, which sadly isn't too often.
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AA4 really has a problem with defendants and not getting to talk to them, but I really like the way they handle Machi here. In 4-2 defending Wocky feels kind of dumb because it feels like Apollo has no attachment to the case but in 4-3 he is totally invested

He gets invested because of Lamiroir more than Machi, but yeah, Apollo on day 2 is pretty great. He has Klavier on the ropes several times, and the showdown with Daryan is excellent.

of course he's unbelievably stupid at times during day 1 but whaddya gonna do
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Phoenix: "I knew you had what it took."
Apollo: "Mr. Wright! You believed in me?"
Phoenix: "Not really. I just thought that'd make a cooler entrance than, say, "hiya!""

these two are so great

AA4 Phoenix is great and no one will convince me otherwise
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I think generally speaking we do agree that AA4 Phoenix is great, it's just that the circumstances behind him are stupid

I don't get that impression. everyone talks about him as a hobo as if it were disqualifying. but yeah I agree that the conceits they make are a bigger deal than the character itself.
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"Lying must be a pastime in Borginia. And also wherever you're from, Mr. Justice."

ha