Current Events > Quinnipiac poll: GOP tax plan has 29% approval

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https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2504

The Republican tax plan pending in the U.S. Congress benefits the wealthy the most, 64 percent of American voters say, while 24 percent say the tax plan benefits the middle class and 5 percent say it benefits low-income people, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today.

American voters disapprove of the tax plan 53 - 29 percent, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll finds. Republicans approve of the plan 67 - 10 percent, the only party, gender, education, age or racial group listed to approve. White men are divided as 40 percent approve and 42 percent disapprove.

In a separate question, voters say 61 - 34 percent that the tax plan favors the rich at the expense of the middle class.

The plan will increase their taxes, 41 percent of voters say, while 20 percent say the plan will reduce their taxes and 32 percent say the plan will not have much impact on their taxes.

In the wake of the Republican tax plan, American voters say 47 - 39 percent that the Democratic Party can do a better job handling taxes. Voters have been divided on this question in the past.

American voters give President Donald Trump a negative 35 - 58 percent job approval rating, compared to 38 - 55 percent in a November 21 Quinnipiac University poll.

Voters say 56 - 40 percent that Trump is not fit to be president, tying his all-time low score.

"Deeply unpopular and manifestly unfit for the job. That's the harsh assessment of President Donald Trump, whose tax plan is considered built for the rich at the expense of the rest," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.

Health care is the most important problem facing the country today, 18 percent of voters say, as 17 percent list the economy. Another 13 percent of voters list foreign policy, while 11 percent cite terrorism and 10 percent list race relations.

Voters say 55 - 32 percent that the Democratic Party can do a better job on health care. Voters are closely divided on who does a better job on the economy, as 45 percent say the Democratic Party and 43 percent say the Republican Party. Democrats are ahead on other issues:

*56 - 34 percent that Democrats can do a better job "fighting for the working class;"

*51 - 37 percent that Democrats can do a better job "representing your values."

American voters say 50 - 36 percent, including 44 - 36 percent among independent voters that they would like the Democrats to win control of the U.S. House of Representatives in 2018. Voters also say 51 - 37 percent, including 45 - 38 percent among independent voters, that they would like Democrats to win control of the U.S. Senate in 2018.

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>Quinnipiac
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who the fuck are the people approving of trump but not the tax plan lmao you morons

KhlavicLanguage posted...

who the fuck are the people approving of trump but not the tax plan lmao you morons

Maybe they reason that the tax plan is coming from Congress, not Trump. It is, of course, but with his full approval.
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KhlavicLanguage posted...

who the fuck are the people approving of trump but not the tax plan lmao you morons

there's some thing i approve of him doing but the tax plan isn't one of them.
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"This tax plan is so massive that nobody in congress had a chance to understand what was in it before voting"
ALSO
"People disapprove of the tax plan without any knowledge of what's actually in it"

If it's clear enough for random people's opinions to matter on the subject, dems shouldn't bitch that it was too big to read. If it was too big to read, than the random opinions of street people shouldn't matter.
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So like what's the big problem with the tax plan? My gut instinct is to be against anything Trump approves of but from what I saw it doubles the child credit and will lower what basically everyone pays... so lower and middle income people are getting a decent cut here. Are people just mad it will lead to other things being cut since less taxes is being collected?
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s0nicfan posted...

"People disapprove of the tax plan without any knowledge of what's actually in it"

people know the fundamentals of what's in it on both sides

it's much easier to oppose something based on its fundamentals than support it on its fundamentals

s0nicfan posted...

the random opinions of street people shouldn't matter.

this is a pretty basic summary of the GOP view on our republic
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The Top Crusader posted...

Are people just mad it will lead to other things being cut since less taxes is being collected?

yes
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That's what happens when propaganda is telling everyone it will ruin their lives.
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Good. Shitty tax plans have brought down enthusiasm for far more popular politicians before, I hope the GOP is ready for that huge blow back this is guaranteed to happen.
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The Top Crusader posted...

So like what's the big problem with the tax plan? My gut instinct is to be against anything Trump approves of but from what I saw it doubles the child credit and will lower what basically everyone pays... so lower and middle income people are getting a decent cut here. Are people just mad it will lead to other things being cut since less taxes is being collected?

there's less deductions for anyone making less than 100k which will result in them paying more in tax (alot more).
make above that and it won't affect may even be lower.
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Small government is good though.
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s0nicfan posted...

"This tax plan is so massive that nobody in congress had a chance to understand what was in it before voting"
ALSO
"People disapprove of the tax plan without any knowledge of what's actually in it"

If it's clear enough for random people's opinions to matter on the subject, dems shouldn't bitch that it was too big to read. If it was too big to read, than the random opinions of street people shouldn't matter.

If no one had a chance to read it, it shouldnt have been passed.
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Like, a tax bill that's effectively going to cut taxes for the top earners more than it will for the majority of Americans is such a shitty thing to do strictly from an optics stand point that rushing this through simply to "prove" they can actually accomplish something when they control all aspects of government is going to hurt them in 2018.

But if Republicans AGAIN want to cling to the idea that "muh trickle down economics!" is going to work THIS TIME, so be it. It's only hurt them time and time again, surely this time it will be different. /s
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The Top Crusader posted...

So like what's the big problem with the tax plan? My gut instinct is to be against anything Trump approves of but from what I saw it doubles the child credit and will lower what basically everyone pays... so lower and middle income people are getting a decent cut here. Are people just mad it will lead to other things being cut since less taxes is being collected?

1) for most earners, it's just shuffling around what their deductions are, providing a small cut.
2) for corporations, it's a massive reduction of their tax rates across the board with no shuffling.
3) for some earners, such as those in blue states, the reduction in deductions outstrips the tax cut and is a tax hike.
4) it does other, stupid shit, like let churches donate their money to political campaigns while remaining untaxed.
5) all deficit spending comes at the cost of other deficit spending. the trillions we spend on this will be trillions we can't spend on fixing our healthcare system or preventing a 2C+ global temperature spike that will bring war to africa and south america via food/water shortages (and eventually here, as well).
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s0nicfan posted...

"This tax plan is so massive that nobody in congress had a chance to understand what was in it before voting"
ALSO
"People disapprove of the tax plan without any knowledge of what's actually in it"

If it's clear enough for random people's opinions to matter on the subject, dems shouldn't bitch that it was too big to read. If it was too big to read, than the random opinions of street people shouldn't matter.

It makes me shudder to think someone is this idiotic.

If no one had an opportunity to read it, then don't pass it. As far random people's opinions to matter, they were specifically asked to comment. Because its you know, a poll
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The corporate tax rates are too high and have caused countless businesses to set up shop overseas. This plan is very good for the middle class because it will CREATE JOBS. Stop with you fear mongering bullcrap.
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KazumaKiryu posted...

This plan is very good for the middle class because it will CREATE JOBS.

Note: not even the GOP analyses claim that; companies themselves have more or less said that gains here will go to shareholders, not labor.
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Antifar posted...

KazumaKiryu posted...

This plan is very good for the middle class because it will CREATE JOBS.

Note: not even the GOP analyses claim that; companies themselves have more or less said that gains here will go to shareholders, not labor.

Lies, propaganda, etc.
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Antifar posted...

KazumaKiryu posted...

This plan is very good for the middle class because it will CREATE JOBS.

Note: not even the GOP analyses claim that; companies themselves have more or less said that gains here will go to shareholders, not labor.

Isn't it cute when they TALK IN CAPS as if it somehow makes their point more truthful?
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s0nicfan posted...

"This tax plan is so massive that nobody in congress had a chance to understand what was in it before voting"
ALSO
"People disapprove of the tax plan without any knowledge of what's actually in it"

I don't think people are necessarily saying "If the public approve of something it should pass, if they disapprove of something it shouldn't pass".

It's just that there are going to be ramifications for the GOP passing a bill this unpopular. It will give little solace to the New Jersey representative who gets booted for voting on this that his or her constituents don't know the full nuances of the bill.
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GeneralZhao posted...

s0nicfan posted...

"This tax plan is so massive that nobody in congress had a chance to understand what was in it before voting"
ALSO
"People disapprove of the tax plan without any knowledge of what's actually in it"

If it's clear enough for random people's opinions to matter on the subject, dems shouldn't bitch that it was too big to read. If it was too big to read, than the random opinions of street people shouldn't matter.

It makes me shudder to think someone is this idiotic.

If no one had an opportunity to read it, then don't pass it. As far random people's opinions to matter, they were specifically asked to comment. Because its you know, a poll

No? I agree that if nobody really got an opportunity to read it than it shouldn't have passed. My point is the media needs to stop talking out of both sides of their mouths. You can't claim nobody understands the bill, AND THEN report on it being unpopular and act like that means anything. Fox did the same crap with the ACA: they ran poll after poll showing that "obamacare" was wildly unpopular but then when other agencies did polls where they explained the contents, the popularity skyrocketed. It's straight up manipulation of the masses.
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I don't really give a shit about "process" complaints, as shady as GOP handling of this bill was.
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Antifar posted...

I don't really give a shit about "process" complaints, as shady as GOP handling of this bill was.

Yeah, they jammed it through, but it's not like the health care bill where people were voting on a bill that they actively didn't want in hopes that Paul Ryan would "do the right thing" and fix it in reconciliation.
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Complaining about the how the bill was passed comes off the exact same way as a GameFAQs poster whining to the mods having a double standard.
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One thing I don't get is the corporate tax cut. While the tax rate for corporations is currently 35%, deductions keep many companies from paying that high.

The change to 20% doesn't seem to have removed those deductions, so how low will they actually be paying?
Why not just actually simplify it as well as lower the rate.
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Anteaterking posted...

Yeah, they jammed it through, but it's not like the health care bill where people were voting on a bill that they actively didn't want in hopes that Paul Ryan would "do the right thing" and fix it in reconciliation.

i mean, it kind of is.

if they kill the mandate the entire nation's health insurance system will explode in the span of a couple years

emblem boy posted...

One thing I don't get is the corporate tax cut. While the tax rate for corporations is currently 35%, deductions keep many companies from paying that high.

The change to 20% doesn't seem to have removed those deductions, so how low will they actually be paying?
Why not just actually simplify it as well as lower the rate.

because the donors that fuel their campaigns are representatives of those corporations
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1. Polls don't matter, they're going to do what they want.
2. They're going to claim, "fake news" the polls are wrong.
3. Better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Americans no absolutely no long term memory politically.
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Darkman124 posted...

1) for most earners, it's just shuffling around what their deductions are, providing a small cut.

Do most earners itemize? I'd think they with the increased standard deduction and child credit, most would be paying less. The ones paying more are the ones itemizing, which I'd imagine is not many people. But maybe I'm wrong.
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emblem boy posted...

Do most earners itemize? I'd think they with the increased standard deduction and child credit, most would be paying less. The ones paying more are the ones itemizing, which I'd imagine is not many people. But maybe I'm wrong.

a large portion of homeowners itemize. 46% of households between 50-99k itemize.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/itemized-deductions/full

further: the personal deductions are being removed, and while the child tax credit improves this, it hurts people caring for elderly relatives for example
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Darkman124 posted...

emblem boy posted...

Do most earners itemize? I'd think they with the increased standard deduction and child credit, most would be paying less. The ones paying more are the ones itemizing, which I'd imagine is not many people. But maybe I'm wrong.

a large portion of homeowners itemize. 46% of households between 50-99k itemize.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/itemized-deductions/full

further: the personal deductions are being removed, and while the child tax credit improves this, it hurts people caring for elderly relatives for example

Ya, just saw that after a quick search. Many more itemize than I thought.
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I think that we are basically just at a point in America where intelligent people avoid politics, and rich people inherit politics, so basically we have a stupid oligarchy that can't last. No idea how things will go, but I imagine it will get bad for the middle class long before it gets bad for the rich.

The GOP didn't even consider that they set a precedent for the Democrats to pull the same restaurant napkin bill act.
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emblem boy posted...

Darkman124 posted...

emblem boy posted...

Do most earners itemize? I'd think they with the increased standard deduction and child credit, most would be paying less. The ones paying more are the ones itemizing, which I'd imagine is not many people. But maybe I'm wrong.

a large portion of homeowners itemize. 46% of households between 50-99k itemize.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/publications/itemized-deductions/full

further: the personal deductions are being removed, and while the child tax credit improves this, it hurts people caring for elderly relatives for example

Ya, just saw that after a quick search. Many more itemize than I thought.

its still not quite clear that those who itemize won't benefit from teh standard deduction doubling. Lots of them will not, but many of them will. It just depends on things like how you earn your income and who your dependents are, among other things.
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Balrog0 posted...

its still not quite clear that those who itemize won't benefit from teh standard deduction doubling. Lots of them will not, but many of them will. It just depends on things like how you earn your income and who your dependents are, among other things.

basically it's a question of "is your state income/sales tax + property tax + insurance worth 24000 or more"

if less, this hurts them only indirectly (by reducing value of homes)

if more, this hurts them directly (by stripping the deduction)

the personal deduction in a typical home is mostly just merged into a larger child tax credit (for parents) and a higher base threshold for the 25% rate so it's only a problem for those who are caring for sick parents
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Good. Shitty tax plans have brought down enthusiasm for far more popular politicians before, I hope the GOP is ready for that huge blow back this is guaranteed to happen.

I honestly would not be surprised if they've already accepted that they won't win in 2020 (2018 is a bit messier) and are just doing everything their big money donors want because they know any blowback they get will be similar to what they already have
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If home values lower, isn't that a good thing?

Homes aren't an investment, people live in them. If more people are able to afford homes that's great
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prince_leo posted...

The Great Muta 22 posted...

Good. Shitty tax plans have brought down enthusiasm for far more popular politicians before, I hope the GOP is ready for that huge blow back this is guaranteed to happen.

I honestly would not be surprised if they've already accepted that they won't win in 2020 (2018 is a bit messier) and are just doing everything their big money donors want because they know any blowback they get will be similar to what they already have

They know their time in Congress is limited, because they've set most of the stuff that would end up raising taxes on a delay. The hope is that whenever people's taxes start going up, they'll be shortsighted enough that they just blame the Democrats that are in office then.
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Among everything else wrong with this bill, it will eventually wind up adding $1-2 trillion to the annual deficit. If you thought it got bad during the first years of Obama, you haven't seen anything yet. And keep in mind that we're considered to be in a boom period right now. When the next recession inevitably hits, that number is going to soar even higher.

When that happens, we are fucked under this tax bill.
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Darkman124 posted...

Balrog0 posted...

its still not quite clear that those who itemize won't benefit from teh standard deduction doubling. Lots of them will not, but many of them will. It just depends on things like how you earn your income and who your dependents are, among other things.

basically it's a question of "is your state income/sales tax + property tax + insurance worth 24000 or more"

if less, this hurts them only indirectly (by reducing value of homes)

if more, this hurts them directly (by stripping the deduction)

the personal deduction in a typical home is mostly just merged into a larger child tax credit (for parents) and a higher base threshold for the 25% rate so it's only a problem for those who are caring for sick parents

Is there a situation in which you'd be fine with removing those deductions in our tax code
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emblem boy posted...

Is there a situation in which you'd be fine with removing those deductions in our tax code

not really no
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Darkman124 posted...

emblem boy posted...

Is there a situation in which you'd be fine with removing those deductions in our tax code

not really no

Even something like the mortgage interest rate deduction? What do you see as its pros
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emblem boy posted...

Even something like the mortgage interest rate deduction? What do you see as its pros

it supports middle class homeownership which i think of as a social positive

i'd be ok with capping it though
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Getting rid of the mortgage tax deduction is a good thing as it is effectively a subsidy on home ownership. Bumping up prices needlessly encourages speculation and some people to buy a home when they shouldn't be.
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