Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: You're Shivering, Are You Afraid?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh yeah someone asked me about Mid Pally building (I think it was Han)

This is basically the shell right now: Murloc Opening and Buffs/Tirion lategame

x2 Murloc Tidecaller
x2 Righteous Protector
x2 Vilefin Inquisitor
x2 Hydrologist
x2 Rockpool Hunter
x2 Murloc Warleader
x2 Rallying Blade
X1 Blessing of Kings
x2 Gentle Megasaur
Finja, the Flying Star
x2 Spikeridged Steed
Sunkeeper Tarim
x2 Bonemare
Tirion Fordring

These are the ones I think will be core. Other cards worth considering are Corpsetaker/Wickerflame, Consecration, Stonehill, Grimscale Chum, Another Kings, Bolvar, Truesilver, Corsair + Patches, The Curator, The Lich King, and Deathwing. Maybe tech cards like Black Knight too
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My friends list goes blank randomly as well. Doesn't seem to be any reason for it, doesn't happen when I send a message, receive one, first log in, anything I can tell. Just blank sometimes.

Also, that stuff must have been really, really fucking cool.
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New Lightforge arena class tier list is out:

Tier 1:
Druid
Paladin
Rogue

Tier 2:
Hunter
Mage
Warlock

Tier 3:
Priest

Tier 4:
Shaman
Warrior
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Whoa. I definitely felt Druid was good and that Mage had fallen, but... Fifth? Has it ever been that low?

Is there a video/Reddit post on this, or just a raw list?
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Oh how shaman has fallen
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CybrMonkey posted...

Tier 1:
Druid

Never in my life thought I would see this.
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huh. Lolstats, yes, but here's the raw win percentages from HSReplay:

Rogue 59
Paladin 59 (close to rogue)
Druid! 58
Warlock 57
Mage 56
Hunter 55
Priest 54
Shaman 53
Warrior 51

More or less the same, except with the pros having a bit more love for Hunter

(They're apparently not centered around 50 because HSReplay doesn't count wins or losses for your opponent, or something? I dunno)
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dowolf posted...

Is there a video/Reddit post on this, or just a raw list?

Just the list right now as far as I know but I'm sure they'll discuss it on their podcast on Sunday.
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trdl23 posted...

CybrMonkey posted...

Tier 1:
Druid

Never in my life thought I would see this.

I mean, did you see the cards they got this expansion
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What kinda pally decks are supposed to be tier 1
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VeryInsane posted...

Oh yeah someone asked me about Mid Pally building (I think it was Han)

This is basically the shell right now: Murloc Opening and Buffs/Tirion lategame

x2 Murloc Tidecaller
x2 Righteous Protector
x2 Vilefin Inquisitor
x2 Hydrologist
x2 Rockpool Hunter
x2 Murloc Warleader
x2 Rallying Blade
X1 Blessing of Kings
x2 Gentle Megasaur
Finja, the Flying Star
x2 Spikeridged Steed
Sunkeeper Tarim
x2 Bonemare
Tirion Fordring

These are the ones I think will be core. Other cards worth considering are Corpsetaker/Wickerflame, Consecration, Stonehill, Grimscale Chum, Another Kings, Bolvar, Truesilver, Corsair + Patches, The Curator, The Lich King, and Deathwing. Maybe tech cards like Black Knight too

Ones like this that have Murlocs and such
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KommunistKoala posted...

What kinda pally decks are supposed to be tier 1

This is Arena. So Vinecleaver, Spikeridged Steed, Rallying Blade, other good Pally weapons, Hydrologist, Stonehills, Righteous Protectors, etc.

Though also what VI said.
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Oh whoops. That makes more sense
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Paladin is my favourite class, but I can't bring myself to play Murloc Paladin. Murlocs have nothing to do with Paladins and it makes no sense why they keep pushing them together.
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Guys

Don't draft Hunter in arena. Life steal basically means you are at a disadvantage almost every match now.

Probably going to be one of the worst classes this set.
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Wedge Antilles posted...

Paladin is my favourite class, but I can't bring myself to play Murloc Paladin. Murlocs have nothing to do with Paladins and it makes no sense why they keep pushing them together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHybGlGVFK8
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KokoroAkechi posted...

Don't draft Hunter in arena. Life steal basically means you are at a disadvantage almost every match now.

This isn't really true. There's only two neutral lifesteal minions and they're both pretty bad, with the murloc being trash tier. The average deck will have maybe one lifesteal card. Even the class cards are pretty bad, the exception being priest which doesn't really matter because they could heal anyways.
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Wedge Antilles posted...

Paladin is my favourite class, but I can't bring myself to play Murloc Paladin. Murlocs have nothing to do with Paladins and it makes no sense why they keep pushing them together.

It's Hearthstone, I think flavor arguments are kinda silly >_>

At the very least I'm glad Paladin has an early game again, even if it's Tribe oriented
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VeryInsane posted...

It's Hearthstone, I think flavor arguments are kinda silly >_>

At the very least I'm glad Paladin has an early game again, even if it's Tribe oriented

Warlocks have a lot of demons, mages have lots of spells, priests have a lot of healing and play defensively, warriors are focused heavily on weapons.

Classes generally stay focused on their flavour for the most part, but Blizzard keeps pushing Murlocs onto Paladins. They make sense with Shamans, but not Paladins.
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Paladin doesn't really have a strong class identity. It's just a jumble of midrange goodstuff. The unique thing it does is mess with minions attack/health values with Peacekeper and Equality style effects.
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Their thing seems like it was meant to be buffs/debuffs.

Sadly most buffs just weren't very efficient. Spikeridge steed was good though.
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Paladin is definitely a jack-of-all-trades class, yeah. But I think that's fine.

You could say that its identity is in buffing and protecting individual creatures, and murlocs fit with that.
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Forceful_Dragon posted...

Blizzard is such a joke company. They can't even balance their friends list correctly. I played Magic the Gathering for 75 years and it always had balanced friends lists.

i don't tolerate randomness in my friends lists
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CybrMonkey posted...

New Lightforge arena class tier list is out:

Tier 1:
Druid
Paladin
Rogue

Tier 2:
Hunter
Mage
Warlock

Tier 3:
Priest

Tier 4:
Shaman
Warrior

Huh this tier list actually looks pretty satisfying. I think I picked a good time to get back into arena if this trend sticks. One thing I'll note about Mages in particular, I did notice I've been easily crushing Mages at lower wins since I started my new set of runs. However, I've been getting completely rolled over by Mages at high wins when I do run into them. So it seems like Mage still kinda has the identity that their 'top end' is about as ridiculous as you can possibly get. But the drafting process has changed and their card pool has been diluted enough that it's very all-or-nothing.

It used to be if you picked Mage you'd either draft a fairly good deck or an INSANE deck if you were lucky. Now it's like... if you don't draft an INSANE deck and get a select few broken cards you're just fucked. Hopefully this causes people to play Mage a lot less. Honestly if I'm losing to a bunch of druids, rogues, and paladins in arena that's way more satisfying than just losing to mages over and over.

Glad to see Hunter in tier 2 as well. This means I can actually pick a class I know I'm good with and feel like I have decent odds of success with it.

Seems like Warrior will never be anywhere except at the very bottom, which makes it even more LOL how badly I lost to that terrible Warrior player the other day.
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oh also I'm really glad that Priest is in a lower tier. honestly Priest is one of the LEAST fun classes to play against. if there's ever a time where Priest becomes a good class in Arena it's going to basically ruin the mode. even worse than any time when Mage was the most oppressive class.
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Arena #5 (cont.)
{Hunter}
Current Score: 8-1

Game 10: Vs Paladin. I went First. He made a very, very, very stupid play of going face for 1 damage instead of trading when I had a Friendly Bartender on board. Not only did I clear his board the following turn with my topdeck, but I healed the 1 damage anyway. Just what the hell was this guy even thinking. I was blessed by the gods of RNG and allowed to win a game where my opponent was playing terribly. Win.

Game 11: Vs Hunter. I went First. Emerald Reaver into Friendly Bartender opener. Dat synergy! Yet another game where I had a pretty out of control opener. I set up a two turn hero power lethal countdown by turn 5. He was not able to come back. Win.

Game 12: Vs Druid. I went Second. Solid opening curve. My 1 drop blocked his 1 drop and I used the coin to build tempo. Strong first turn at least. He did manage to play Spreading Plague right on curve at the most opportune time, while I had only high attack minions with 1 health on board. Yikes. I managed to slow him down with a perfect Volcanosaur on turn 7. He plays Baron Geddon on turn 8 and then Bonemares it on turn 9. Wow. Disgusting. My only play here was to take 11 damage to the face to try and stop it. He had Ultimate Infestation on the following turn. Now I know how my opponents felt during my recent Druid run. I somehow stabalized at 6 health with a decent sized board. His hand is FULL of cards and mine is empty. And he has the Malfurion death knight ready to play on this turn.... Jeeeeez.



Somehow I come back, things are looking good, and.... he plays his second Bonemare onto a 2/2 stealth minion for lethal. Sigh. Loss.

Game 13: Vs Warlock. I went Second. Weak opener. This might be it for this run. The one game where I don't have a ton of early game minions, I'm playing a control class, and he floods the board early game. Yeah, sounds about right. My only play here was to coin out Daring Reporter early and hope she could carry me to victory as she has done in the past. He did not seem to have a great answer to it right away so I just let her keep growing for a while. Then he tried to face race Hunter. Not so sure that's going to work out for him. I set up a perfect Cobalt Scalebane on a 1/1 minion, forcing him into the most awkward trade situation ever. Unfortunately for me he just had too many high quality removal tools and cards in general despite having an empty hand. This is the fate you face at high wins in arena. Loss.

Final Result: 10-3

Very satisfied with this overall outcome. This was an incredibly mediocre deck and I would never have expected it to get so many wins. Especially so many out of control wins where I just crushed the opponent and it wasn't even close. I have a feeling I faced some pretty nuts decks along the way and just managed to kill them before they could draw into their craziest stuff. The problem comes when you start getting to higher wins and facing opponents where every card in their deck is insane. Then it doesn't matter how early in the game it is, or how few cards they have left, they always seem to have some kind of answer. When your own deck is mediocre it's hard to compete against such odds. I felt pretty good about the losses I had still, I fought pretty hard for the board. Exception being that first loss against Mage which was just pure bullshit.
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280 Gold, 85 Dust, 1 Pack

if anyone was curious
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UltimaterializerX posted...

The only problem with playing against Priest is how long the games are.

this is the main problem in constructed, yeah. nobody wants to play a 30 minute game only to lose to an opponent whose deck doesn't even have a win condition. it's exhausting.

in arena the problem is more that if they can actually gain control of the board they can keep healing their minions up forever and it becomes impossible to fight for the board.
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Holy shit, I just bought seven Un'Goro packs and got three legendaries out of them, one of them golden. Druid and Rogue quests, plus golden Sherazin.
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Arena #6
I Was Offered: Druid/Hunter/Shaman
I Picked: Druid


Since I just did a Hunter run, figure I'll switch over to Druid now. Shaman is basically out of the question since it's a class I don't enjoy playing and it's currently a low tier class.

The Draft: Got stuck with Celestial Dreamer and Tomb Lurker as my synergy cards. I'm already beyond fucking tired of drafting Tomb Lurker. This synergy system needs to go. Now. I did get two Swipes, Naturalize, and Ultimate Infestation. As well as a boat load of taunts. No great synergy outside of just this idea of stalling and removing shit forever until I win the game. We'll see if it works. A very heavy curve with late game focus. I just need to hope I can survive that long.

Also going to be weird changing gears completely from my previous draft which was a very fast Hunter deck.

Game 1: Vs Mage. I went First. Did not draw any early game cards, a potential weakness of this deck I was hoping I wouldn't encounter so early on. I did my best to force him into awkward trades in order to try and seize control of the board. Fought for way too long only to have Babbling Book gift him an Arcane Explosion while he just happened to have a +1 Spell Power minion on board while I just happened to have only 2 health minions. Really, really hate this game sometimes. Loss.

Game 2: Vs Mage. I went Second. This is going to go swimmingly. Primordial Glyph. Cabalist's Tome. Oh boy, can't wait to see which spells he needs that he was given. Firelands Portal played on curve. Nothing surprising here, just your standard 0-1 Mage deck with a card that is supposed to be rare to pull in arena because it's so bullshit it should have just been outright removed. Flamestrike created by Cabalist's Tome. Breath of Sindragosa, a card that should not exist. Missed lethal by fireballing my minion and trading his entire board in when he already had the game won. Doesn't matter. Picked Mage. This is the quality of player you will be forced to lose games to in arena. Loss.

Game 3: Vs Shaman. I went First. No good early drops but I did get a Stonehill Defender to help stall the game. I win the early game control of the board. He starts trying to go face with Doomhammer. What is it with bad Shaman players trying to do this in Arena? Unsurprisingly this braindead strategy did not work. Someone should have told him that if you're a terrible player you need to draft Mage in order to do well. Win.

Game 4: Vs Rogue. I went Second. Solid opening hand with some early game control tools, plus the coin and innervate. I decide to just wait until I draw a big threat and tempo it out with +3 mana. I'm really taking a risk of playing into Sap here but sometimes you have to take risks. The odds that he actually has it are fairly low. I set up lethal, he tries to protect with a Bonemare'd taunt, I punch through with Naturalize. I don't often praise my own play but I will say that I showed really good restraint in saving the Naturalize here in my hand for a while, knowing I could probably use it for surprise lethal later even if it made it more difficult to fight for the board early on. Win.

Game 5: Vs Mage. I went Second. Not terrible opening hand. Stupid constant removal to deal with, as always. He makes completely ridiculous plays like wasting a defender of argus to buff two minions that he is trading in anyway. I managed to stay alive long enough to get some Ultimate Infestation value. Cone of Cold created by Shimmering Tempest. Followed up with an insane innervate fueled turn where I got tons of value. This tilted him enough that he continued to make further misplays. Swipe for lethal. Win.
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Game 6: Vs Rogue. I went First. Opening hand has some potential, depending on how his start goes. I go kinda all in on my early game cards, a risky play, but I didn't have much choice with the hand I was given. I do get punished with a dead draw on turn 4 and lose tempo big time. Vicious Fledgling scares me enough that I take an unfavorable trade into it 'just in case.' Might have been a trump trade on my part there. He did Curator into some draws so I have to be careful of what he might be holding. He gets some insane Bonemare value but I do have a giant mastodon to help block his big minion on the following turn. I misplay the order on a Spreading Plague and get way less taunts than I should because I didn't pop his deathrattle minion first. Whoops. He gets Youthful Brewmaster onto his Bonemare for double value. Oh man not sure I have any kind of answer to this. I did get Ultimate Infestation off and flooded the board as best as possible the following turn. Topdeck Swipe for lethal. Honestly not sure I deserved to win that game, but oh well. Maybe makes up for the first few bullshit losses of this run! Win.

Game 7: Vs Paladin. I went First. Fairly bad opening hand. He has a solid opener. This might be it for this run. I do get to play Second Rate Bruiser on turn 3 because he over commits to the board. So that's good I guess. He uses the downtime as an opportunity to equip sword of justice and prepare for the midgame with buffed minions. I have Ancient of Blossoms to stall the midgame. I hold onto Defias Cleaner in case of Spikeridged Steed. This is indeed exactly what he plays on the following turn, and I counter it hard. My next turn is pretty awkward however and I fail to gain control of the board. I just drop Spreading Plague and put down a wall of taunts to try and stall out for a few turns. He finishes the game with Dinosize. Meh. I don't feel really good or bad about that one, it was just, whatever. Loss.

Final Result: 4-3

I feel like this run was hamstrung with really bad luck early on and did not meet its full potential as a result. Your 0-0 game is pretty much a tossup since you're just being thrown up against another fresh deck with no win/loss ratio and so you could go up against something terrible or really good. Always feels bad when you're stuck against a strong opponent early on by pure bad luck, but even worse when your 0-1 opponent happens to be another strong deck who was probably in the same boat as you. Well, actually, no. The 0-1 player I faced was just god awful so he probably lost a match due to being terrible. Just sucks that his deck was good enough that he could win a match despite being terrible and that match happened to be against me.

Rewards:
1 Pack, 80 Gold
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So I have a Rogue/Warrior quest. I made the "basic warrior" deck that's part of the deck recommendations (sans Grommish because I don't have him).

Currently on a 3 game win streak with it. >_>
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People say Druid is OP, but when I play it all I run into is EZ Priest, which feels like a completely unwinnable matchup.
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If you don't run Transform effects a la Hex or Polymorph or Kazakus, yeah, it's horrible.
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So yeah, I went on a 4-5 game win streak with that deck. Which was better than anything my jade druid deck could do.
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Yeah fuck Priest.

Just had a game where he Barnes out a Y'shaarj who pulls out Lich King on Turn 4. I somehow manage to kill both the Y'shaarj and Lich King anyway. He then Eternal Servitudes out Yshaarj again who pulls out another Yshaarj. I go face an have him at 4 HP (with 5 damage in hand). He uses Greater Healing Potion and the 2 Yshaarj pulls out Ysera and Obsidian (not that I could have dropped 2x 10/10's on Turn 5 anyway)

So in summation

Turn 4: Barnes > Y'shaarj > Lich King (Board cleared anyway)
Turn 5: Eternal Servitude > Y'Shaarj > Yshaarj
Turn 6: Greater Healing Potion + Ysera + Obsidian Statue

That's just fucking ludicrous.

You guys remember those games but not the ones where they don't have Barnes on 4 and are facing Aggro

It's horrible

It also ironically loses to Priest. Potion of Madness OP
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The final boss, a Jade Druid, tried to destroy me with a surprise Naturalize, but quest mage? It's too strong to be deterred by the minor loss of a key card or two.
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I threw together a deck made entirely of paladin class cards for my daily quest. No planning involved, so I had no thoughts of actually winning, just adding cards and if they work together, great, if not, oh well, I still get my quest done. So I jumped into casual to try my luck.

Turns out it's fun to Steward of Darkshire -> Stand Against Darkness, followed by Bolvar Fireblood on the next turn. Not a very practical combo in most scenarios, of course, but in this case the guy didn't have any way of dealing with it and conceded after my recruits cleared his board and powered up Bolvar to 11 attack with a newly-played Righteous Protector alongside the others.
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"Hey I wonder if something special happens if Putricide hits fatigue"

New hero power: All cards cost 5 because SCIENCE!

...rip.
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The more I play against Priest, the more I'm convinced that Potion of Madness was a fucking mistake.
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VeryInsane posted...

You guys remember those games but not the ones where they don't have Barnes on 4 and are facing Aggro

It's horrible

It also ironically loses to Priest. Potion of Madness OP

I've only run into them 4-5 times and EVERY TIME they had Barnes on 4 so I may be biased.

I finally beat one too, but he didn't draw Shadowreaper Anduin so he couldn't clear my last few golems or kill me.

I also ran into one guy who was running both Geist and N'zoth to get back 4-5 Statues, but that seems incredibly greedy and nonstandard. Killed me dead though.
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Need to slow my play down. Just caught myself making 2 misplays in the same match immediately after I made them

* Running the a 2/3 into a 1 attack minion instead of my 2/2 minion which left them both 2/2 and killable next turn instead of only 1 killable next turn

* Playing minions out of order. Dropped a Night Howler before Grimestreet Outfitter meaning I kept Outfitted in hand instead of dropping that turn

Both simple mistakes that likely cost me the game (in Arena if not obvious) from playing too fast. I rarely even see rope which is the likely problem

Those mistakes happened at 2-0 to put me at 2-1. Now up to 5-1. So it may or may not have put me on an easier Arena route (obviously still better if the mistake didn't happen)

I think the current run is down to opponent draws/deck quality rather than my own skill/deck though. I've had a handful of 2-4 win runs recently where I ran into multiple significantly better decks than I have with this one so far. Which is good because this deck isn't that great, just okayish (64.1 rating on Heartharena but curves out well)

what are you playing? is this the mage draft you mentioned before?
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Nah, this is a Paladin run I started this morning

1 Acherus Veteran
1 Blessing of Might
1 Fire Fly
2 Bilefin Tidehunter
2 Blowgill Sniper
2 Grimestreet Outfitter
2 Rockpool Hunter
2 Tuskarr Fisherman
3 Blood Knight
3 Coldlight Seer
3 Murloc Warleader
3 Shallow Gravedigger
3 Steward of Darkshire
3 Stonehill Defender
3 Zoobot
4 Arrogant Crusader
4 Dark Iron Dwarf
4 Hammer of Wrath
4 Night Howler
4 Rattling Rascal
4 Silvermoon Portal
4 Stegodon
4 Worgen Greaser
5 Frostwolf Warlord
5 Sunborne Val'kyr
6 Blackguard
7 Bonemare
7 Volcanosaur
8 Dinosize
9 Giant Mastodon

dowolf posted...

The final boss, a Jade Druid, tried to destroy me with a surprise Naturalize, but quest mage? It's too strong to be deterred by the minor loss of a key card or two.

Grats!

I'm at 4 right now, not sure if I really feel like pushing for it though tbh
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Ended up 5-3. Both losses coming to Mages in pretty much identical fashion. Both Pyroblasted me in the face for lethal when I had large taunts up / board control

Pack and 100 gold for rewards