Current Events > Trump administration will not allow trans people to serve in military

(+) Yeah! (+)

hockeybub89 posted...

Caution999 posted...

There's two other reasons which we went over in this very topic.

There are no good reasons. This is a load of horseshit.

Not my problem if your head is in the sand. :)

It's almost as if being the President isn't easy. You have to make tough decisions which won't be "fair" to everyone. Ultimately, he's saving a horrible situation in which these people might kill themselves if they were to go without their treatment. They're going by the statistics.

Do you really think he woke up and was like "Yep - I feel like alienating trans people today!" No. It's a tough decision.
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What a shithead
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Mal_Fet posted...

Would you support increasing the military's budget to offset the cost? didn't think so.

Increasing it less than 1% in order to allow them to serve? Absol fucking lutely
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Mal_Fet posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

No, I think he is a fucking idiot that does stupid things because he has no idea what he is doing.

If we truly care about military spending, then banning trans people does nothing. It's a drop in the bucket.

How about the 40% likelihood of suicide in the trans community that is not reduced by any form of GRS?

Wouldn't that be a cause for concern in the military

If that was an actual thing and not bullshit people pull out of the air to argue how trans people are inherently more suicidal, maybe, but still probably not.
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Caution999 posted...

Do you really think he woke up and was like "Yep - I feel like alienating trans people today!" No. It's a tough decision.

Must be nice when you stick your head in the sand and make assumptions based on what you want to be true.

Especially when you call others out for doing the same fucking thing
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It certainly is nice, for once, to have a president that has the balls to make commands - damn well knowing the backlash won't be good. This guy is willing to throw himself under the bus to make, what the generals believe, is the right decision.

It's admirable.
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If trans are a distraction then so are women. And to come up with some out of context suicide rate statistic shows the desperation to find a valid argument.

Caution999 posted...

This guy is willing to throw himself under the bus to make, what the generals believe, is the right decision.

Why would he listen to what the generals say?

He knows more than they do.
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Capn Circus posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Caution999 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I can't handle all this winning!


Fuck the President

So you honestly believe Trump is a Disney movie villain that just does things for the sake of being evil?

No, I think he is a fucking idiot that does stupid things because he has no idea what he is doing.

If we truly care about military spending, then banning trans people does nothing. It's a drop in the bucket.

He's literally listening to the military leaders. Turns out, trans in the military was never enacted in the first place and has only been under review.

The leaders deem it a distraction and Trump listens.

This is a huge nothing burger of the day

He isn't listening to facts, he''s listening to his party.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/07/01/us/transgender-military.html

Numerous studies have been done and shown no visible negative effect of letting in trans people.

hockeybub89 posted...

Mal_Fet posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

No, I think he is a fucking idiot that does stupid things because he has no idea what he is doing.

If we truly care about military spending, then banning trans people does nothing. It's a drop in the bucket.

How about the 40% likelihood of suicide in the trans community that is not reduced by any form of GRS?

Wouldn't that be a cause for concern in the military

If that was an actual thing and not bullshit people pull out of the air to argue how trans people are inherently more suicidal, maybe, but still probably not.

Just Mal_Fet using lies to push his right-wing agenda again, carry on.
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Caution999 posted...

It certainly is nice, for once, to have a president that has the balls to make commands - damn well knowing the backlash won't be good. This guy is willing to throw himself under the bus to make, what the generals believe, is the right decision.

It's admirable.

Banning people from serving in the military because they might marginally increase the military budget hardly sounds like the right decision. It sounds like the military doesn't give a fuck about the well-being of its soldiers. But at least we can build a few more tanks and bomg a few more Muslims now!
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Again, you're focusing one one aspect out of three. Or at least, the three that were shared in this topic.
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Caution999 posted...

This guy is willing to throw himself under the bus to make, what the generals believe, is the right decision.

Except you know, the whole fact that the Pentagon is reported to have been surprised and in the dark about this
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Funny, because you seem to be bouncing between a few different reasons and rationale in an attempt to justify it.

No? My main reason is that it's bullshit you have a soldier who's going to be non-deployable, soak up health care, and has a 40% chance to be a psychological liability to the army. I haven't really seen anything else

The Great Muta 22 posted...

All while making assumptions that others numbers are wrong and that things will happen "just because", which is such a s***ty reason that it actively makes my head hurt

Calling an estimate between 1k to 6k bullshit is not really assuming the numbers are wrong...
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Here's from General Mattis:

"Since becoming the Secretary of Defense, I have emphasized that the Department of Defense must measure each policy decision against one critical standard: will the decision affect the readiness and lethality of the force?" Mattis said in a memo late last month. "Put another way, how will the decision affect the ability of America's military to defend the nation? It is against this standard that I provide the following guidance on the way forward in accessing transgender individuals into the military Services."
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God forbid a transgender person be allowed to serve their country. Absolutely absurd. Trump is an idiot.
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hockeybub89 posted...

If that was an actual thing and not bullshit

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40279043/ns/health-health_care/t/transgender-americans-face-high-suicide-risk/

Not bullshit.

Whats your new excuse
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The military disqualifies people for most forms of mental issues. Even small things like ADHD disqualify you.

They don't allow in people with depression issues/history, ADHD, or basically anything similar to that.

The ruling is pretty consistent - They don't allow people in if they think they will or could be problematic for service.

Transgenderism is a pretty serious disorder, and I don't mind it being included in the disqualification list.
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Yeah, as officially stated, this is just a cheap attempt to prevent safely red districts from shifting further blue.
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Caution999 posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

I can't handle all this winning!


Fuck the President

So you honestly believe Trump is a Disney movie villain that just does things for the sake of being evil?

I know I do! He does not care about ANYTHING about his own wealth and power and fame. He does not care about America, does not care about the ppl who voted for him, does not care about you, does not care about me, does not even care what health care bill lands on his desk as long as he has something to sign. He is an authoritarian. Authoritarians always require enemies to protect their base from, if enemies do not exist they will be created, minorities preferred, as it has always been the case throughout human history. Trump is as close to a Disney cartoon villain as we are likely to get, theee parts Gaston and two parts Cruella DeVille, with some Queen of Hearts thrown in for measure.
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Bullet_Wing posted...

Lol at these justifications. The timing is way too coincidental for it to be anything other than Trump realizing he's alienating the actual bigots in his support and throwing them a bone.


As I posted before, stuff like this gets to Trump

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/07/25/trumps-attack-on-sessions-over-clinton-prosecution-highlights-his-own-weak-stance/

This whole Sessions mess is turning his OG fanbase against him, so he has to remedy it.

Yea, it really is just a rallying call to his bigoted supporters to let them know, "hey, I'm still on your side (despite following through on 0 of my promises to you so far)!"

Though the decision itself is probably for the best. I question his motivations in doing it, and his wording of it.
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Steve Nick posted...

The military disqualifies people for most forms of mental issues. Even small things like ADHD disqualify you.

They don't allow in people with depression issues/history, ADHD, or basically anything similar to that.

The ruling is pretty consistent - They don't allow people in if they think they will or could be problematic for service.

Transgenderism is a pretty serious disorder, and I don't mind it being included in the disqualification list.

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.
To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

>2017

>people still denying science and calling transgenderism a mental disorder

Holy fuck lmao. These redhats need to step outside of their mom's basement
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Thugstar posted...

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Gay people don't require hormones or medical treatment though. :u
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Mal_Fet posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

If that was an actual thing and not bullshit

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40279043/ns/health-health_care/t/transgender-americans-face-high-suicide-risk/

Not bullshit.

Whats your new excuse

And your part about GRS not reducing it?
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OpheliaAdenade posted...

Thugstar posted...

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Gay people don't require hormones or medical treatment though. :u

Neither do all trans people.
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Mal_Fet posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

If that was an actual thing and not bullshit

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40279043/ns/health-health_care/t/transgender-americans-face-high-suicide-risk/

Not bullshit.

Whats your new excuse

Asserting that transition doesn't help was the unsubstantiated shit. I am fully aware that trans people have a higher suicide rate than the general population and there are a multitude of factors to that.

I disagree with the military being so unwilling to accept soldiers that they might need to provide medical care to, and I am talking more than trans people.
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Malcolm has been melting down all topic.

bretonftw posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Thugstar posted...

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Gay people don't require hormones or medical treatment though. :u

Neither do all trans people.

I really don't think this is going to apply to trans people that aren't transitioning though. That would be crazy.
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bretonftw posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Thugstar posted...

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Gay people don't require hormones or medical treatment though. :u

Neither do all trans people.

Then I'm sure they can serve just fine if they don't mention to their soldiers "I feel like a woman"
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Thugstar posted...

Steve Nick posted...

The military disqualifies people for most forms of mental issues. Even small things like ADHD disqualify you.

They don't allow in people with depression issues/history, ADHD, or basically anything similar to that.

The ruling is pretty consistent - They don't allow people in if they think they will or could be problematic for service.

Transgenderism is a pretty serious disorder, and I don't mind it being included in the disqualification list.

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.
To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Being gay and being transgender aren't the same thing

A gay man is generally a completely normal and healthy human being, that happens to like sticking it in dudes. That's just a preference, and it doesn't necessarily reflect their identity as a whole.

Transgenderism implies that the person has fundamental mental issues even understanding who they are. On top of the strife caused by their identity crisis, they are often taking powerful medications and having surgeries, etc.

You really can't compare these two things.


One of these things causes a big problem for the military. One doesn't.
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Capn Circus posted...

bretonftw posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Thugstar posted...

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Gay people don't require hormones or medical treatment though. :u

Neither do all trans people.

Then I'm sure they can serve just fine if they don't mention to their soldiers "I feel like a woman"

This mentality is why suicide and rape are issues in the military. It's conformity to a fault.
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I love transwomen and would hate if they got killed overseas so in a way I support this.
Pls girls know that I love you and don't want you to fight ;_;
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Capn Circus posted...

bretonftw posted...
<blockqu

Then I'm sure they can serve just fine if they don't mention to their soldiers "I feel like a woman"

So you're advocating for don't ask, don't tell?

OpheliaAdenade posted...

bretonftw posted...

OpheliaAdenade posted...

Thugstar posted...

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Gay people don't require hormones or medical treatment though. :u

Neither do all trans people.

I really don't think this is going to apply to trans people that aren't transitioning though. That would be crazy.

He did say all transgender people serving in any capacity. I don't expect that nuance.
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The fact is, transgender people endure a lot of very difficult challenges in their lives, and the military doesn't want those problems.
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hockeybub89 posted...

This mentality is why suicide and rape are issues in the military. It's conformity to a fault.

Yea, in general, the environment is toxic. No wonder our veterans are so fucked up by the time they get out. Something needs to change, but I don't think it is going to happen anytime soon. Military culture is so ingrained in the higher ups that problems get ignored for the sake of maintaining it.

And everyone is too scared to talk about it out of fear of disrespecting our troops. The whole thing reeks of brainwashing.
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HellsingOrg posted...

I love transwomen and would hate if they got killed overseas so in a way I support this.
Pls girls know that I love you and don't want you to fight ;_;

Is this a joke post?

Steve Nick posted...

Transgenderism implies that the person has fundamental mental issues even understanding who they are. On top of the strife caused by their identity crisis, they are often taking powerful medications and having surgeries, etc.

You really can't compare these two things.

It would be interesting to see a study of how much more mentally ill gay people were back when they were more stigmatized. Just as a comment on how much trans people's mental problems come from within and how much come from not being accepted by society.
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Steve Nick posted...

Thugstar posted...

Steve Nick posted...

The military disqualifies people for most forms of mental issues. Even small things like ADHD disqualify you.

They don't allow in people with depression issues/history, ADHD, or basically anything similar to that.

The ruling is pretty consistent - They don't allow people in if they think they will or could be problematic for service.

Transgenderism is a pretty serious disorder, and I don't mind it being included in the disqualification list.

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.
To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Being gay and being transgender aren't the same thing

A gay man is generally a completely normal and healthy human being, that happens to like sticking it in dudes. That's just a preference, and it doesn't necessarily reflect their identity as a whole.

Transgenderism implies that the person has fundamental mental issues even understanding who they are. On top of the strife caused by their identity crisis, they are often taking powerful medications and having surgeries, etc.

You really can't compare these two things.


One of these things causes a big problem for the military. One doesn't.

Ten years ago you'd have spouted the same horse shit about gays, and sixty years ago about African Americans. You aren't wise.
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Malcolm_Caradoc posted...

Steve Nick posted...

Thugstar posted...

Steve Nick posted...

The military disqualifies people for most forms of mental issues. Even small things like ADHD disqualify you.

They don't allow in people with depression issues/history, ADHD, or basically anything similar to that.

The ruling is pretty consistent - They don't allow people in if they think they will or could be problematic for service.

Transgenderism is a pretty serious disorder, and I don't mind it being included in the disqualification list.

That's like saying being gay is a disorder. Who are you to judge someone's identity? People are defined by more than their genitalia.
To prevent problematic people you'll have a screening. Not discrimination.

Being gay and being transgender aren't the same thing

A gay man is generally a completely normal and healthy human being, that happens to like sticking it in dudes. That's just a preference, and it doesn't necessarily reflect their identity as a whole.

Transgenderism implies that the person has fundamental mental issues even understanding who they are. On top of the strife caused by their identity crisis, they are often taking powerful medications and having surgeries, etc.

You really can't compare these two things.


One of these things causes a big problem for the military. One doesn't.

Ten years ago you'd have spouted the same horse shit about gays, and sixty years ago about African Americans. You aren't wise.

When has being black been considered a mental disorder?

scar the 1 posted...

Steve Nick posted...

Transgenderism implies that the person has fundamental mental issues even understanding who they are. On top of the strife caused by their identity crisis, they are often taking powerful medications and having surgeries, etc.

You really can't compare these two things.

It would be interesting to see a study of how much more mentally ill gay people were back when they were more stigmatized. Just as a comment on how much trans people's mental problems come from within and how much come from not being accepted by society.

Well, transgenderism people want to BE something that they are not. There's no amount of acceptance from me or anyone else that can make someone born as a man be a real woman. They're just always gonna be unhappy if that's their goal.

All that gay people wanted to do was have sex with their own gender. They can actually do that. So the only 'social' problem is whether or not people judge them for it. A transgender person can never achieve their dream. Even with all the meds and surgeries - It's not enough. Not with current technology at least.

Obviously they have problems in society too, but it seems like their problems are at least 75% internal.
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Who's alt is @Malcolm_Caradoc
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hockeybub89 posted...

Asserting that transition doesn't help was the unsubstantiated shit. I am fully aware that trans people have a higher suicide rate than the general population and there are a multitude of factors to that.

Transitioning, at best, reduces the likelihood of suicide of transpeople to 25 times the suicide rate of the general public.

You're so full of it. What's next, you gonna fight for people with flat feet to join the military?
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Mal_Fet posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Asserting that transition doesn't help was the unsubstantiated shit. I am fully aware that trans people have a higher suicide rate than the general population and there are a multitude of factors to that.

Transitioning, at best, reduces the likelihood of suicide of transpeople to 25 times the suicide rate of the general public.

You're so full of it. What's next, you gonna fight for people with flat feet to join the military?

No, next they're going to compare being trans-gendered to being black. Like Malcolm just did.

Admiral is the only one from the right to actually make a legitimate argument. Everyone else is just trolling cause Trump said it so they better believe it too.

It doesn't matter though. If someone can pass the medical, physical, and mental tests that are set forth by the branch they're entering, they should be allowed to seeve. Period. If you can't pass the tests, that's not discrimination.

SSJ-JohnLennon posted...

Antifar posted...

Here's the study on trans people in the military, btw
https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/Transgender-Military-Service-May-2014.pdf

A different study, commissioned by the secretary of defence, has 2,450 trans active-duty members of the military, still more than the "few hundred" claimed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/us/military-transgender-ash-carter.html

Do you have a source without a bias?

I also nearly died laughing at this post. Yeah, UCLA is a "biased source" and redstate/Breitbart aren't. rofl, JL6 will never cease to amaze me with his hypocritical posts.
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Mal_Fet posted...

hockeybub89 posted...

Asserting that transition doesn't help was the unsubstantiated shit. I am fully aware that trans people have a higher suicide rate than the general population and there are a multitude of factors to that.

Transitioning, at best, reduces the likelihood of suicide of transpeople to 25 times the suicide rate of the general public.

Nope.
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LightningAce11 posted...

Didn't he say he would support the lgbt?

He supports them not dying in rich men's war, others can do that instead
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