Board 8 > A Feast For Crows Mafia: Topic 13 - Most Have Been Forgotten.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Omg I don't feel like I deserve a win. I love that this game didn't end up being rolled like we thought it might though. What an excellent setup in the end.

Major props to puns. Well done playing it out. I'd like to think my bussing you forever made you look better, but who knows.

I shouldn't have signed up during busy season, but God I couldn't help myself.
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In recounting all my explosions against people they were all against:

Chris
Han
MI
Puns

And KBM, who I insist is still scum.
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I wish people would not profess to want to step away from Mafia for a while after one good or bad game! I want games to keep firing.
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Nanahara715 posted...

Honestly, the conclusion I came to on a reread was something like Red is scum and Puns is lucky as fuck (1/78 chance of hitting 4 scum in his first post; later post was "Maybe Scare dying is as simple as a Han/Chris/MI/Red scum team").

For Puns to be scum, he's got to be something insane like BP Roleblocking Traitor and his first post is him signaling to the scum team. Scum seems pretty weak with only 4.5 though, but not sure if that's overstated because of how much Leo was able to steamroll because of us lynching the BP first.

Is it worth discussing not lynching anyone and bringing it down to three?

Goddammit.
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Tracker - Middling scanning role. It was primarily a tools to catch Leo or some of the secondary town power roles.

Ninja Godfather - The ninja part wasn't useful by itself, but sometimes there is power in making scum not be afraid of something. Like, if I leave the Ninja modifier off, perhaps they talk themselves out of killing their desired target night one because "oh he might be watched". Godfather was good though.

Persistant Strongman Vig - Nice extra kill. Persistent made him immune to redirects (again, not in the game but just to give them a "oh cool lets do what we want and not be afraid of bus driving etc" kind of thing). They did something weird with this and I never figured out why. They had MI bus the targets, then Chris shot through them...to confuse town. Which was weird. Because if he flipped...why wouldn't town just assumed that "oh sure they bussed these two people, shot with their normal kill, and then Chris used his super shot on the other guy". What was to keep town from thinking that sure, the bus and shot happened, but it was the other scum that used that shot and Christ just killed Scare instead? I missed that part of the argument, I think. He claimed he shot through the bus drive (which he did)...but why not just have their normal kill use the bus drive to go around protection and have Chris shoot the other guy? What if Scare had been doc saved? It would accomplish the same thing without the risk I think. Unless they were afraid of being tracked, I suppose.

Jack-of-all-trades (Bus drive, Body removal, Psychic, Name Scan) - A good solid jack role. Bus drive is crazy strong, body removal was an excellent counter to Leo's role (it mostly existed to make them aware of the fact that someone could do something to dead bodies from the get go - I think they actually guessed the dead mason recruiter thing right away). It also lead them to figure out he was multi use before he claimed it because "why have this if he could only do it once?" Plus it was actually functional as it removed a town power from play (particularly if they use it to get rid of doc or one of the scanners). It would doubly screw with Leo because it made the player untargetable, and the way I treat that is a reflexive roleblock on anyway taking action on them. So if Leo tried to recruit and use an action on the same night, he would get roleblocked for both (and not even know why!). I thought it was a good soft counter to Leo's role, to go along with their one-two punch of role blockers. Psychic is "fine" and name scan was kind of a weak power to round things out.

So there you have it.

I hope Puns/MI/Han are slightly less irate now that they see Town wasn't nearly as strong as they thought they were. I still think this is a really fun set up, and I was honestly really happy with the way basically everyone played. It was a great game from top to bottom, fun to read, and I think just about everyone played well. I hope, at the very least, you had FUN.

SO MUCH FUN.
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Also my god Nana I swear on the ghost of someone I love if you accuse me of elitism when I am town I am never going to stop stomping a mudhole into you. The mod is going to have to pull me off your corpse.

Seriously, you will stop that silliness.
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yeah Nana I read that and was like

O_o
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Sceptilesolar posted...

I wish people would not profess to want to step away from Mafia for a while after one good or bad game! I want games to keep firing.

let the good times roll!

just trust me if you read the scum board you'll see this commitment is not good for me. lol.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

I hope Puns/MI/Han are slightly less irate now that they see Town wasn't nearly as strong as they thought they were. I still think this is a really fun set up, and I was honestly really happy with the way basically everyone played. It was a great game from top to bottom, fun to read, and I think just about everyone played well. I hope, at the very least, you had FUN.
.

No worries. Like I said, the game isn't what made me upset.
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I also really need to thank @MZero11 and @Lolo_Guru for running things without me. I had personal issue pop up right near the start of the game, and I couldn't do all the stuff I love doing when running a game. Flavor, weird names for votals, special lists of the dead/alive players, all that stuff. I always have a ton of fun with that stuff even if YOU DON'T. I'm such a micromanager though that I hated the idea of giving up the game to someone else because I was afraid I wouldn't be clear in how to handle something, they would misunderstand, and it would wind up ruining what was shaping up to be a CLASSIX. And the game was going so well I didn't want to just leave it be, but I couldn't be here most of the time. I tried to find experienced hosts to go instead because I'd at least feel a little better that way, but everyone was busy (or playing!). I was actually going to pause the game at one point, but you all had a rhythm going so I thought cohosts taking over would be better in the long run.

But they both did an amazing job so A+++ work thanks for handling things in my absence!
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Oh and I forcefed Shad that RB flavor and stuff. I am proud of that one, kept him alive one more day. RIP Dowolf.
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somewhere on the scum board there is a post I made about Nana being most correct most often out of everyone with regard to scum's motivations and night actions
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Oh and I forcefed Shad that RB flavor and stuff. I am proud of that one, kept him alive one more day. RIP Dowolf.

It was just...

If he was scum, it seemed like such a bad claim. Like yours, for that matter.

...Did you have a planned way to survive n2, by the way?
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In conclusion, had fun. But not something I could do regularly anymore since apparently my activity level was not adequate for some people.

I liked the fluidity and not having to waste energy 'appearing town' while being a force ghost though.

Hit me up in 2020, we can do it again.
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Dowolf I broke my keyboard typing WIFOM so much.

I basically set town up for ruin and hoped they didn't have a vig. They did, oh well.
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bng_mmmk posted...

somewhere on the scum board there is a post I made about Nana being most correct most often out of everyone with regard to scum's motivations and night actions

"If Chris and MI are scum, Puns is scum because there's no other reason to Bus him if you're going to just ignore the fucking bus" (Day 3)

"Puns is scum because the Han lynch was preplanned because tracker is now worthless" (Day 4)

"Puns is scum because he doesn't push Jeff on something he should have" (page 2 of topic 1)

JFC.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Dowolf I broke my keyboard typing WIFOM so much.

I basically set town up for ruin and hoped they didn't have a vig. They did, oh well.

...Man.

My viewpoint was that, if you were scum, you were clearly setting up a redirect on yourself what with all the bus driver talk. Therefore, if anyone on town had an extra kill, since hosts tend to keep extra kills to a minimum these days, they should immediately call you out on it during the day. Therefore, since no one was calling you out on it, I figured I could at least trust you for the day (if VI flipped town, I was probably gonna gun for you d3, but >_>).

Alas, Jeff, bless his heart, was not overthinking things nearly as much as I was. At least he did not forget the face of his father and all that.
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Something that I was thinking about over the past day: it is weird to me that what I thought was maybe the worst play for scum/town is what almost wound up winning each the game.

For scum, I was so confused when Shad and Han were content to let Puns die. For almost no reason, too! I've actually seen this before, it was in Valve Mafia (Chris and MI were in that one with Nana and other people too I'm forgetting now). Chris and I spent the latter part of Day 1 yelling at each other and forcing each other to claim (we both lied and caught scum with powers at night). Midway through our screaming match, someone on the scum team does...something (I don't remember) and we all turn on him (Chris/MI/Corrik/me) and he winds up mod killing himself. He was scum something. Then we have a contested day 1 lynch where Nana and Person X both wind up helping us decide it. It was scum RB. So we finished two scum down including RB and it wound up being a 3/4 day town romp. BUT Nana and Person X were both scum. Luckily Nana's fake claim was so bad we caught him any way (I forget how we caught Person X or even who that was), but I was genuinely confused at first because "why the hell does scum kill their RB"?

Well, because they were scared. "I didn't know what else to do"/"what if he flips scum later and then town sees me jumping off and gets me too!"/etc etc etc. I think the same thing happened here. Shad and Han couldn't think of a good reason to get off (hint: town very often uses bad reasons to get off random day 1 lynches) so they just stuck on him and came within ONE "Scare realizing what votals were" vote of losing their RB day 1.

It could've cost them the game. But instead it helped buy Puns so much town cred (on top of what they did on top of that going forward) that they cruised to a victory without so much as a single vote on Puns.

(Also I think if Chris is here that never happens because seriously bussing your RB for no reason on day 1 WHAT WHAT ARE YOU TWO DOING.)

Again though, it worked for them. "So what the hell do I know" I guess. Just a general reminder going forward "scum wouldn't almost kill their RB right away". Well...usually not. I've seen it twice now (and I'm almost positive Corrik almost killed his RBer in Wrestling Mafia day 1 too - some people have different play styles and it can really mess with people's heads).
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Nanahara715 posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

somewhere on the scum board there is a post I made about Nana being most correct most often out of everyone with regard to scum's motivations and night actions

"If Chris and MI are scum, Puns is scum because there's no other reason to Bus him if you're going to just ignore the fucking bus" (Day 3)

"Puns is scum because the Han lynch was preplanned because tracker is now worthless" (Day 4)

"Puns is scum because he doesn't push Jeff on something he should have" (page 2 of topic 1)

JFC.

OK to be fair Han's lynch had nothing to do with his role. I started trying to lynch him day 1!

but yeah mostly.
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Suprak the Stud posted...

Something that I was thinking about over the past day: it is weird to me that what I thought was maybe the worst play for scum/town is what almost wound up winning each the game.

For scum, I was so confused when Shad and Han were content to let Puns die. For almost no reason, too! I've actually seen this before, it was in Valve Mafia (Chris and MI were in that one with Nana and other people too I'm forgetting now). Chris and I spent the latter part of Day 1 yelling at each other and forcing each other to claim (we both lied and caught scum with powers at night). Midway through our screaming match, someone on the scum team does...something (I don't remember) and we all turn on him (Chris/MI/Corrik/me) and he winds up mod killing himself. He was scum something. Then we have a contested day 1 lynch where Nana and Person X both wind up helping us decide it. It was scum RB. So we finished two scum down including RB and it wound up being a 3/4 day town romp. BUT Nana and Person X were both scum. Luckily Nana's fake claim was so bad we caught him any way (I forget how we caught Person X or even who that was), but I was genuinely confused at first because "why the hell does scum kill their RB"?

Well, because they were scared. "I didn't know what else to do"/"what if he flips scum later and then town sees me jumping off and gets me too!"/etc etc etc. I think the same thing happened here. Shad and Han couldn't think of a good reason to get off (hint: town very often uses bad reasons to get off random day 1 lynches) so they just stuck on him and came within ONE "Scare realizing what votals were" vote of losing their RB day 1.

It could've cost them the game. But instead it helped buy Puns so much town cred (on top of what they did on top of that going forward) that they cruised to a victory without so much as a single vote on Puns.

(Also I think if Chris is here that never happens because seriously bussing your RB for no reason on day 1 WHAT WHAT ARE YOU TWO DOING.)

Again though, it worked for them. "So what the hell do I know" I guess. Just a general reminder going forward "scum wouldn't almost kill their RB right away". Well...usually not. I've seen it twice now (and I'm almost positive Corrik almost killed his RBer in Wrestling Mafia day 1 too - some people have different play styles and it can really mess with people's heads).

Player X was Uwnim and Corrik gladiated him Day 3.
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Sceptilesolar posted...

I wish people would not profess to want to step away from Mafia for a while after one good or bad game! I want games to keep firing.

I'm in a bit of a weird position with that. On one hand, this game was a lot of fun and filled a lot of spare time niches that would otherwise be wasted on phone reddit or whatever. And I don't outline all of my mistakes like I did in last post in a self pitying wallowing in a hero complex kind of way, but because it's important to note to improve for future games. Additionally, I've noticed in past games people don't want to play because the post game is full of blaming and recrimination and bitterness, so I'm trying to be liberal with my GGs

But at the same time I put a huge amount of time and emotional energy into the game once I wasn't literally at grand prix vegas, and it's very demoralizing to have all that effort be meaningless, possibly even leaning towards harmful. I don't think I can do better, not very easily. I poured over the game archive, which I haven't been motivated to do for years I'm pretty sure. I just don't think I shake off another crushing defeat when I'm that invested and by happy about it. So if I play, it tends to be a less invested, more casual way which is a good ticket to being lynched for me.

TLDR; this actually did just become a self pitying hero complex post BUT I do think post games should be more positive.

Nana, I'm proud I had faith in your towniness but unproud I did not listen to you about Puns
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FFDragon posted...

In conclusion, had fun. But not something I could do regularly anymore since apparently my activity level was not adequate for some people.

I liked the fluidity and not having to waste energy 'appearing town' while being a force ghost though.

Hit me up in 2020, we can do it again.

Your activity was perfectly fine! Everyone's was, really! I don't need like 200 posts a day. No one does that anymore besides me and I'm just weird.

As long as you're here, posting thoughts, interacting, you are actually playing mafia so I don't care if you aren't constantly active. Boko/FFD/Stan please play again it was great having you guys.

And all the other Mafia regulars too, of course!

And Jeff the newbie who confused me by not counter claiming Chris and letting him lead that lynch but then wound up causing a three scum pile up because he held his shot.

Again, "what the hell do I know" I guess.
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Leo3L posted...

Additionally, I've noticed in past games people don't want to play because the post game is full of blaming and recrimination and bitterness, so I'm trying to be liberal with my GGs

I mean, I hope you didn't take my comments on your play too personally.

Except my anger at not being recruited. WE COULD HAVE BEEN DEATH BUDDIES.

WITH DEATH.

THERE'S ALREADY PUNS OF THIS NATURE ON YOUR BOARD ISN'T THERE?!
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Leo3L posted...

Sceptilesolar posted...

I wish people would not profess to want to step away from Mafia for a while after one good or bad game! I want games to keep firing.

I'm in a bit of a weird position with that. On one hand, this game was a lot of fun and filled a lot of spare time niches that would otherwise be wasted on phone reddit or whatever. And I don't outline all of my mistakes like I did in last post in a self pitying wallowing in a hero complex kind of way, but because it's important to note to improve for future games. Additionally, I've noticed in past games people don't want to play because the post game is full of blaming and recrimination and bitterness, so I'm trying to be liberal with my GGs

But at the same time I put a huge amount of time and emotional energy into the game once I wasn't literally at grand prix vegas, and it's very demoralizing to have all that effort be meaningless, possibly even leaning towards harmful. I don't think I can do better, not very easily. I poured over the game archive, which I haven't been motivated to do for years I'm pretty sure. I just don't think I shake off another crushing defeat when I'm that invested and by happy about it. So if I play, it tends to be a less invested, more casual way which is a good ticket to being lynched for me.

TLDR; this actually did just become a self pitying hero complex post BUT I do think post games should be more positive.

Nana, I'm proud I had faith in your towniness but unproud I did not listen to you about Puns

I barely believed myself on Puns anyways. I need to be pushier sometimes?
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Suprak the Stud posted...

But they both did an amazing job so A+++ work thanks for handling things in my absence!

I'd say MZero11 did more than me, but yes, thank you.
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The things I think I actually did well outside of the easy stuff like "being right about scum":

-my claim day 1. It was very well executed and timed and bought me a vote or two on FFD which I needed to survive.

-the day of the KBM lynch, which was also the day Leo revealed Scare's power, we were gunning hard for MI at first (that's the time I decided it was right to draw attention to my immediate call out of scum, because we thought MI was cooked then and there) but after work the next day when I got home I made a big catch up post defending MI and going for Nana. MI went from 2 votes to 0 votes and the day shifted to Nana vs KBM. That, I think, was pretty clutch. A well timed and carefully crafted shift of attention.


beyond that it was just a lot of faking reads against my teammates and babbling about Nana for the endgame. But it's not like Nana did a lot to invite that or be an easy target, it's just that town was already SO not looking in my direction at all that it almost didn't matter who I suspected.


At one point we started to worry I actually would be suspected in the final four because of being alive, after how confident everyone was that I was town. Then Leo claimed VI scanned innocent and my god did I lol. That was so glorious.
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Leo3L posted...

Sceptilesolar posted...

I wish people would not profess to want to step away from Mafia for a while after one good or bad game! I want games to keep firing.

I'm in a bit of a weird position with that. On one hand, this game was a lot of fun and filled a lot of spare time niches that would otherwise be wasted on phone reddit or whatever. And I don't outline all of my mistakes like I did in last post in a self pitying wallowing in a hero complex kind of way, but because it's important to note to improve for future games. Additionally, I've noticed in past games people don't want to play because the post game is full of blaming and recrimination and bitterness, so I'm trying to be liberal with my GGs

But at the same time I put a huge amount of time and emotional energy into the game once I wasn't literally at grand prix vegas, and it's very demoralizing to have all that effort be meaningless, possibly even leaning towards harmful. I don't think I can do better, not very easily. I poured over the game archive, which I haven't been motivated to do for years I'm pretty sure. I just don't think I shake off another crushing defeat when I'm that invested and by happy about it. So if I play, it tends to be a less invested, more casual way which is a good ticket to being lynched for me.

TLDR; this actually did just become a self pitying hero complex post BUT I do think post games should be more positive.

Nana, I'm proud I had faith in your towniness but unproud I did not listen to you about Puns

You guys did very well, I thought! Sometimes the other team just does better, and there is no shame in that. Puns was a great combination of excellent play and almost dying day 1 with the help of two already flipped scumbuds. That's a hard one to figure out.
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...if you guys had a BP teammate, why assume town had no killing power?
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Nanahara715 posted...

...if you guys had a BP teammate, why assume town had no killing power?

I assumed town did have killing power but chris was like "this will be fun" so who was I to question it?
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Lol at how long it took u to lynch MI.
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I enjoy going on adventures sometimes. Note the amount of wifom I spun totally fucked town in the end!
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But to cover how "unluckily lucky" the scum team were, they:

1) Got the BP lynched day 1. Hooray! But it lead them to believe Leo was actually BP. Boo. It is crazy how this happened. Puns kept grumbling "YOU CAN'T HAVE TWO FULL TIME BPS IN A GAME YOU NEED TO PLAN THIS BETTER" and MI said something along the lines of "this doesn't make sense there has to be something we're missing" and he was right! Still, I fully understand why you thought there were, and it was all due to crazy bad luck.

2) You guys found the secondary scanning day 1 and put him in roleblock hell. Hooray! But he was mostly useless against you and couldn't actually get any dead to right scans on you. He might have actually been an easier mislynch target if you hadn't gotten him so quickly.

3) You found out Boko was protecting Stan night 1. Hooray! ...but he wasn't doctor, just a bodyguard who could've easily been mislynched.

It was crazy how unlucky you guys got with how lucky you were >_>
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I enjoy going on adventures sometimes. Note the amount of wifom I spun totally fucked town in the end!

FUN

SO MUCH FUN

(you guys might've won day 3 if you play it safe but fun is much more fun, I think)
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Nanahara715 posted...

Player X was Uwnim and Corrik gladiated him Day 3.

Uwnim! Thank you, it had completely slipped my mind.

But yes, day 1 role blockers dying because scum panics and doesn't want to look bad happens more frequently than you'd think.

Puns played well outside that though, but man did that really make him look good.
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This is my first game as Town against Scum Chris, so I'm glad the hype didn't disappoint there. Even if he did crush my soul in a post game victory football spike.
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Nanahara715 posted...

Suprak the Stud posted...

Something that I was thinking about over the past day: it is weird to me that what I thought was maybe the worst play for scum/town is what almost wound up winning each the game.

For scum, I was so confused when Shad and Han were content to let Puns die. For almost no reason, too! I've actually seen this before, it was in Valve Mafia (Chris and MI were in that one with Nana and other people too I'm forgetting now). Chris and I spent the latter part of Day 1 yelling at each other and forcing each other to claim (we both lied and caught scum with powers at night). Midway through our screaming match, someone on the scum team does...something (I don't remember) and we all turn on him (Chris/MI/Corrik/me) and he winds up mod killing himself. He was scum something. Then we have a contested day 1 lynch where Nana and Person X both wind up helping us decide it. It was scum RB. So we finished two scum down including RB and it wound up being a 3/4 day town romp. BUT Nana and Person X were both scum. Luckily Nana's fake claim was so bad we caught him any way (I forget how we caught Person X or even who that was), but I was genuinely confused at first because "why the hell does scum kill their RB"?

Well, because they were scared. "I didn't know what else to do"/"what if he flips scum later and then town sees me jumping off and gets me too!"/etc etc etc. I think the same thing happened here. Shad and Han couldn't think of a good reason to get off (hint: town very often uses bad reasons to get off random day 1 lynches) so they just stuck on him and came within ONE "Scare realizing what votals were" vote of losing their RB day 1.

It could've cost them the game. But instead it helped buy Puns so much town cred (on top of what they did on top of that going forward) that they cruised to a victory without so much as a single vote on Puns.

(Also I think if Chris is here that never happens because seriously bussing your RB for no reason on day 1 WHAT WHAT ARE YOU TWO DOING.)

Again though, it worked for them. "So what the hell do I know" I guess. Just a general reminder going forward "scum wouldn't almost kill their RB right away". Well...usually not. I've seen it twice now (and I'm almost positive Corrik almost killed his RBer in Wrestling Mafia day 1 too - some people have different play styles and it can really mess with people's heads).

Player X was Uwnim and Corrik gladiated him Day 3.

Player x was MenuWars and he just about had a fucking mental breakdown over it.
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No MenuWars was the dude you almost killed in Wrestling.

You were town with me in Valve Mafia!
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Thought you were referring to the end where you said "and I'm almost positive Corrik almost killed his RBer in Wrestling Mafia day 1 too -"
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No, I definitely remember you almost killing Menu in Wrestling.

There were two scum that actually did kill their RBer in Valve though, I just couldn't remember who the second one was. Sneaky uwnim, always not posting stuff.
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Wow. Well played, Puns.

Kewl game. Both sides had a lot of great players and great moments. Thought Town definitely had the game in the bag until Puns flipped mafia actually. So props to him and the people who bussed him day 1. That was the main reason i liked him as town
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Thanks for the fun first game, everyone. I'll give this last topic a thorough read sometime tomorrow. Well done, Puns and scum team at-large.
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And Jeff the newbie who confused me by not counter claiming Chris and letting him lead that lynch but then wound up causing a three scum pile up because he held his shot.

Again, "what the hell do I know" I guess.

It just felt... right.
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oh yeah a fun thing was when VI pondered that if scum had a usurper it was probably me and it was probably Euron

I was scum and I was euron!

just not usurper.
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Whoa hold on chris. I usually catch you towards the end of day 1. Which you got a huge pass for by not being here. Day 2 i got played by the vigi claim because its literally asoif mafia. Theres bound to be some sort of murdering role. Its exactly why i was forced to believe you.

bng_mmmk posted...

oh yeah a fun thing was when VI pondered that if scum had a usurper it was probably me and it was probably Euron

I was scum and I was euron!

just not usurper.

Omce theon flipped i knew there was no usurper. He has nothing to usurp.

Also i should have pushed my read following chris' flip harder. I dont know how many people remember, but my initial reaction to that was that chris couldn't go that long without bussing someone and that the VI lynch felt like chris smelling blood. aka VI was town and puns was scum. Shad being dead to rights probably hurt me here because i just couldn't muster the fire to push this back through.

My weakness since mafia has made its resurgence here is that i simply have had a hard time trusting myself to drive the game.

I'm still really pissed at you guys for lynching me even if it was a lose lose situation. Especially Scare, thst comment at the end really stung.

Man sorry guys. I blame myself on the loss. I went nuts last night and I convinced Leo that it had to be Red. Its should still be a good read for those of you interested, but man

Puns you're insane. Good job

Red, I am very sorry, I hope you see how I justified it and understand though.
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t I put the whole loss on me Red. I know I let you down. I thought you were town all the way until I went crazy into trying to crack the game last night. Some rule 1 crept in my mind as well
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Also puns i told you earlier with the preemptive grats, you played a really good game. I knew you were an option on the table but i had 0 way to play that card and not get insta lynch. You really had one of the better plays as scum in b8 history, to be quite honest.