Current Events > Why is everyone shaming that dude for hitting the Antifa woman?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Yeah mentioning Islam on this site is asking to be modded. I was warned for my poll topic about it.

At this point just talking about it is flipping a coin over whether you get modded. Best not to talk about it.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

Yeah mentioning Islam on this site is asking to be modded. I was warned for my poll topic about it.

At this point just talking about it is flipping a coin over whether you get modded. Best not to talk about it.

I can't wait to see what the mod replies with for my dispute...
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She had it coming by being a fucking commie.
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pinky0926 posted...

averagejoel posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Because you were talking about Islam, obviously. Don't deflect - would you go out of your way to punch a Muslim cleric if he said "Homosexuals must be put to death", as so many of them do?

No more than I would a Christian cleric who said the same thing

So would you or would you not? You're still deflecting, as if saying "But Christianity" is at all relevant to the discussion.

Bringing up Islam was also irrelevant to the discussion
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averagejoel posted...

Bringing up Islam was also irrelevant to the discussion

It was brought up to see how principled you are in belief of violently attacking people who expouse the ideology of marginalising minorities, women and LGBT communities. Since we know that many Islam clerics and spiritual leaders share this idealogy of putting apostates and sinners alike to death (to no small fringe degree), I'd be interested to know what your response would be in that situation.

Given that you keep avoiding the answer, I'm going to assume that you wouldn't punch a Muslim who said these things?
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What does Antifa means?
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God damn wtf happened? So much wreakage in one picture.
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Kitt posted...

What does Antifa means?

Antifaschistische Aktion

Aka

Anti-Fascist Action.

People call it Antifa globally for convience
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She's so nasty too
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Fascism, Nazism, and White Supremacy are all cancerous to society. The end goal of any fascist is the fascist state. The fascist state necessitates the suspension of civil liberties. These people are actively working to take people's rights away - I consider any physical torment that they incur to be protected under self-defense. Not legally, of course (and it shouldn't be legal to just hit them) but morally.

What we should do as a country is recognize that fascist speech isn't just a "different opinion". It's a bad one. So we need to collectively speak out against it. It's in our best interest as a country.
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LittleScootaIoo posted...

She's so nasty too

It's a shame, she used to look pretty good.


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_Near_ posted...

Fascism, Nazism, and White Supremacy are all cancerous to society. The end goal of any fascist is the fascist state. The fascist state necessitates the suspension of civil liberties. These people are actively working to take people's rights away - I consider any physical torment that they incur to be protected under self-defense. Not legally, of course (and it shouldn't be legal to just hit them) but morally.

What we should do as a country is recognize that fascist speech isn't just a "different opinion". It's a bad one. So we need to collectively speak out against it. It's in our best interest as a country.

Highlighted the part that I think is the just and reasonable and civilised response to people who have vile political ideologies.
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pinky0926 posted...

Highlighted the part that I think is the just and reasonable and civilised response to people who have vile political ideologies.

The problem with that is that fascism doesn't listen to reason. What it does is weasel itself to have a seat at the table and gain more support - usually through fear and indoctrination. Once they get enough power, they'll be able to enact their will. Adolf himself said that the only way national socialism could've been stopped is if it was destroyed in its infancy. The mistake was letting them grow and fester knowing full well what they stood for.

I feel like I have to mention that this is different from religion. First, I highly doubt a theocratic regime would pop up here given the variety of beliefs in our country and a open reluctance to have religious leaders run our government. Fascism is more dangerous because it is a political ideology - its only end goal is to control the government and have everyone bow down to it. Second, religion is a deeply personal thing and it has many protections. You can have vile religious beliefs, but we'll let you have them as long as you don't actively enact them. The entire point of fascism is to enact their political ideology. There is no other end goal. You can bet that the minorities and the disenfranchised will be the first ones to suffer. By the time that the fascist actually come for them, there will be such an imbalance of power, that self-defense will be meaningless. You're basically telling them "No, don't fight them now. Wait until they get strong political clout and come at you in an organized manner. That's when you can defend yourself."
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_Near_ posted...

The problem with that is that fascism doesn't listen to reason.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Craziest part is we KNOW this logic of "violence stops ideas I don't like" is bullshit.

Look no further than Johnny Lee Clary who expains how Wade Watts defeated an entire chapter of the KKK just by being a nice guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fMXdCjv9qo

History says otherwise

People respond to reason and conversation and learning.


When greeted with insults, violence and down talking, they just redouble in their beliefs. Always
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UnfairRepresent posted...

History says otherwise

People respond to reason and conversation and learning.


When greeted with insults, violence and down talking, they just redouble in their beliefs. Always

History does not say otherwise. Every major fascist government has been brought down by war.

One dude who makes friends with KKK members that tormented him does not change that.
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Ammonitida posted...

The white woman who got punched was sporting dreads which makes her a racist by default. It's called "cultural appropriation".

Very few people have mindset and black and white people called out the gir who went after the dude to having dread locks .
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_Near_ posted...

pinky0926 posted...

Highlighted the part that I think is the just and reasonable and civilised response to people who have vile political ideologies.

The problem with that is that fascism doesn't listen to reason. What it does is weasel itself to have a seat at the table and gain more support - usually through fear and indoctrination. Once they get enough power, they'll be able to enact their will. Adolf himself said that the only way national socialism could've been stopped is if it was destroyed in its infancy. The mistake was letting them grow and fester knowing full well what they stood for.

I feel like I have to mention that this is different from religion. First, I highly doubt a theocratic regime would pop up here given the variety of beliefs in our country and a open reluctance to have religious leaders run our government. Fascism is more dangerous because it is a political ideology - its only end goal is to control the government and have everyone bow down to it. Second, religion is a deeply personal thing and it has many protections. You can have vile religious beliefs, but we'll let you have them as long as you don't actively enact them. The entire point of fascism is to enact their political ideology. There is no other end goal. You can bet that the minorities and the disenfranchised will be the first ones to suffer. By the time that the fascist actually come for them, there will be such an imbalance of power, that self-defense will be meaningless. You're basically telling them "No, don't fight them now. Wait until they get strong political clout and come at you in an organized manner. That's when you can defend yourself."

What I'm saying is fight them now, but don't use the particular method of organising vigilante death squads to commit instant assassinations, that is all. There's no part of my argument that advocates doing nothing against fascists.

We don't need to reason with fascists. We need to speak out against fascists to convince the people who are idle or "on the fence" that it's a serious threat. We need to educate people before they become fascists, and destruct the rhetoric and dismantle the mechanisms which makes fascism an appealing ideology to some people. And in the case where fascists make serious threats of violence we need to hammer them with the law.

It seems strange to me that it's a typically liberal idea that the answer to destructing Islamic terror is not to drop bombs on their heads but to combat the radicalisation of young Muslims, and yet here we're talking about doing the opposite with regards to white supremacists.

I don't believe we will ever defeat an idea with physical violence. Not in the long term. Physical violence might be necessary to protect your life, but it's not an answer to combat the momentum of a political movement.

Incidentally, I don't see that distinction with religion. Theocratic regimes already exist in a large part of the Muslim world, and reign terror on millions of people around the world. Your description of how fascism worms its way into government is exactly how the Muslim Brotherhood works.

*This is not to say no one should be religious. If you are privately a person of faith then I have zero qualms with you. The context in which I'm addressing Islam is the institutional kind.
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ssj-kenobi posted...

The dude is getting doxxed on Twitter. I thought leftist types were supposed to be against that sort of behavior.

It's only bad when someone else does it.
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It seems to be human instinct to go for the face when fighting other people, you almost never see body shots especially with inexperienced fighters. That is why I always find it interesting that most people don't have any natural instinct to defend their face in a fist fight, with this instinct having to be trained into oneself. Just an observation. I doubt that woman would have stood a chance against that guy even if she had good blocking and countering punching ability. That guy looked pretty tough. Although, I am much more of a lover than a fighter.
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cjsdowg posted...

Ammonitida posted...

The white woman who got punched was sporting dreads which makes her a racist by default. It's called "cultural appropriation".

Very few people have mindset and black and white people called out the gir who went after the dude to having dread locks .

SJWs all have that mindset because they are bad (or sick) people.

I follow SJW hatemongers on twitter, and they're quite vile. They actually see nothing wrong with withholding certain food and clothing from "white" people as a form of punishment for what they think their ancestors did in the past. How petty can SJWs get?
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pinky0926 posted...

We don't need to reason with fascists. We need to speak out against fascists to convince the people who are idle or "on the fence" that it's a serious threat. We need to educate people before they become fascists, and destruct the rhetoric and dismantle the mechanisms which makes fascism an appealing ideology to some people.

I would agree with that. It's definitely more refreshing than the "Just change their minds, man. It's different political ideas." This tackles the root of the problems.

pinky0926 posted...

It seems strange to me that it's a typically liberal idea that the answer to destructing Islamic terror is not to drop bombs on their heads but to combat the radicalisation of young Muslims, and yet here we're talking about doing the opposite with regards to white supremacists.

If I lived in a country where a Islamist theocracy was an actual danger, I would definitely be singing the same tune as I do now for white supremacy. I would not be telling the women, gay people, and atheists that punching a extremist Islamist preacher is wrong. I'd say that it's self defense. Because the ideology will kill them once it gets power.

pinky0926 posted...

I don't believe we will ever defeat an idea with physical violence. Not in the long term. Physical violence might be necessary to protect your life, but it's not an answer to combat the momentum of a political movement.

But violence has stopped many political movements in the past. Fascism is a great example. The only reason it stopped (or lost most of its power, to be more precise) was because we fought it. Imagine the lives that would've been spared if it had been fought in its infancy.

pinky0926 posted...

Incidentally, I don't see that distinction with religion. Theocratic regimes already exist in a large part of the Muslim world, and reign terror on millions of people around the world.

And that's different than here. These are places where like 80-90% of the people are Muslim. There, I can see a theocratic regime popping up. Here? Not so. That's why if I see a preacher asshole telling me to stone gays, I don't feel that punching him is an appropriate response. He won't get his way. But alt-right, nazi peices of shit telling us that black people are subhuman? When there's already alt-right people in our government? Fuck that shit, homie. That's when we really need to get serious and stop this crap.

And no worries, I'm not religious. But even if I was, you've been very respectful. I don't think reasonable religious people would be offended by what you've said or the way you said it.
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Wasn't this March about "free speech"? Doesn't that suggest that they aren't fascists looking to create a totalitarian state?

If violence, denying people their voice/dissenting opinion and protesting against democracy are staples of fascism, then there seems to be a fair bit of that from both sides, tbh.
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_Near_ posted...

If I lived in a country where a Islamist theocracy was an actual danger, I would definitely be singing the same tune as I do now for white supremacy. I would not be telling the women, gay people, and atheists that punching a extremist Islamist preacher is wrong. I'd say that it's self defense. Because the ideology will kill them once it gets power.

But violence has stopped many political movements in the past. Fascism is a great example. The only reason it stopped (or lost most of its power, to be more precise) was because we fought it. Imagine the lives that would've been spared if it had been fought in its infancy.

Fighting these ideologies in their infancy I agree with. Where I fall off the wagon is resorting to violence before violence has been committed, or even explicitly threatened.

Don't get me wrong, it's not out of some naivety because I think fascists wouldn't go there if they could. It's only because I feel it's an incredibly dangerous slippery slope to start sanctioning "Minority Report" style justice, especially considering it's in the absence of a judicial process (Talking again about vigilante hit squads, here). I feel there's a danger of becoming as bad as the dangerous ideology you're trying to defeat, in that case.
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Vyrulisse posted...

Kingbuffet posted...

That guy is part of a white supremacist group and friends with Richard Spencer.

No one cares. Everyone involved in that kerfuffle is a dumbass extremist of some sort so let them kick the shit out of each other.

This topic has me fucking howling, but this comment is the best opinion on the matter.
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nableet posted...

Wasn't this March about "free speech"? Doesn't that suggest that they aren't fascists looking to create a totalitarian state?

If violence, denying people their voice/dissenting opinion and protesting against democracy are staples of fascism, then there seems to be a fair bit of that from both sides, tbh.

Well, "free speech" is the banner that fascists use to spread their ideology. Both sides are not equivalent - stop thinking that they are. We have two groups of people here:

1. Neo Nazis - literally Hitler. White people > all other people. "I will take away your rights because you are an inferior race and I will do this by controlling the government."

2. Antifas - literally against Hitler. "No, Nazis are fucking terrible. Stop talking or I will punch you in the fucking face."

And you think it's equal on both sides?
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_Near_ posted...

nableet posted...

Wasn't this March about "free speech"? Doesn't that suggest that they aren't fascists looking to create a totalitarian state?

If violence, denying people their voice/dissenting opinion and protesting against democracy are staples of fascism, then there seems to be a fair bit of that from both sides, tbh.

Well, "free speech" is the banner that fascists use to spread their ideology. Both sides are not equivalent - stop thinking that they are. We have two groups of people here:

1. Neo Nazis - literally Hitler. White people > all other people. "I will take away your rights because you are an inferior race and I will do this by controlling the government."

2. Antifas - literally against Hitler. "No, Nazis are fucking terrible. Stop talking or I will punch you in the fucking face."

And you think it's equal on both sides?

Stop with your bullshit. Antifa is going after everyone on the right. They attacked a racially mixed gathering at Berkeley. They're worthless thugs now.
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_Near_ posted...

And that's different than here. These are places where like 80-90% of the people are Muslim. There, I can see a theocratic regime popping up. Here? Not so. That's why if I see a preacher asshole telling me to stone gays, I don't feel that punching him is an appropriate response. He won't get his way. But alt-right, nazi peices of shit telling us that black people are subhuman? When there's already alt-right people in our government? Fuck that shit, homie. That's when we really need to get serious and stop this crap.

And no worries, I'm not religious. But even if I was, you've been very respectful. I don't think reasonable religious people would be offended by what you've said or the way you said it.

Oops, missed this part. Thing is, wasn't your point to stop these things in their infancy? Toxic islamic groups have proven themselves effective at worming their way into government in a similar way to fascism. Considering that Muslim Attributional Tribunals (read: sharia civil law courts) have successfully made their way into my country (UK), I can't honestly agree with you that it's not a serious threat that's not making any headway. The argument typically given that it's of the choice of a Muslim family if they want to use that system or not, but isn't that exactly how patriarchal tyranny flourishes anyway? I doubt the women are always given the freedom of choice there.
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_Near_ posted...

nableet posted...

Wasn't this March about "free speech"? Doesn't that suggest that they aren't fascists looking to create a totalitarian state?

If violence, denying people their voice/dissenting opinion and protesting against democracy are staples of fascism, then there seems to be a fair bit of that from both sides, tbh.

Well, "free speech" is the banner that fascists use to spread their ideology. Both sides are not equivalent - stop thinking that they are. We have two groups of people here:

1. Neo Nazis - literally Hitler. White people > all other people. "I will take away your rights because you are an inferior race and I will do this by controlling the government."

2. Antifas - literally against Hitler. "No, Nazis are fucking terrible. Stop talking or I will punch you in the fucking face."

And you think it's equal on both sides?

So everyone on that March was a neo Nazi? I'm sure the antifa protesters think so.

At this point in time both sides are engaged in the same actions. Both sides relish in seeing the other take a kicking. Both sides generalise and dehumanise their opponents.

You can argue that if true fascists got in to power it would be worse. However that really isn't on the cards here.
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nableet posted...

_Near_ posted...

nableet posted...

Wasn't this March about "free speech"? Doesn't that suggest that they aren't fascists looking to create a totalitarian state?

If violence, denying people their voice/dissenting opinion and protesting against democracy are staples of fascism, then there seems to be a fair bit of that from both sides, tbh.

Well, "free speech" is the banner that fascists use to spread their ideology. Both sides are not equivalent - stop thinking that they are. We have two groups of people here:

1. Neo Nazis - literally Hitler. White people > all other people. "I will take away your rights because you are an inferior race and I will do this by controlling the government."

2. Antifas - literally against Hitler. "No, Nazis are fucking terrible. Stop talking or I will punch you in the fucking face."

And you think it's equal on both sides?

So everyone on that March was a neo Nazi? I'm sure the antifa protesters think so.

At this point in time both sides are engaged in the same actions. Both sides relish in seeing the other take a kicking. Both sides generalise and dehumanise their opponents.

You can argue that

Almost none at the Berkeley March were "Neo-Nazis".
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Ammonitida posted...

Almost none at the Berkeley March were "Neo-Nazis".

Except the dude who punched the woman in the face.

And his entire group with him who are self confessed neo-nazi's.

pinky0926 posted...

Fighting these ideologies in their infancy I agree with. Where I fall off the wagon is resorting to violence before violence has been committed, or even explicitly threatened.

Don't get me wrong, it's not out of some naivety because I think fascists wouldn't go there if they could. It's only because I feel it's an incredibly dangerous slippery slope to start sanctioning "Minority Report" style justice, especially considering it's in the absence of a judicial process (Talking again about vigilante hit squads, here). I feel there's a danger of becoming as bad as the dangerous ideology you're trying to defeat, in that case.

I agree, and the earlier you fight it, the less likely you are to have to resort to violence (I'd also like to point out that I believe that violence should honestly be used sparingly and in special cases). And like I said in the beginning, I don't see how any good justice system would work if it actually let the woman punch the neo-nazi for talking and spreading his beliefs. If people were smart, such an allowance would only be used in proportional amounts to clear and unambiguous fascist propaganda - but that's a pipe dream and people will just start punching those who they don't agree with. That's why I said it's just morally permissible.

I just vehemently disagree when people start saying that just because someone punches a fascist, they're as bad as fascists. Punching the fascist is problematic, sure, but the fascist's ideas are 1000x worse than any punch to the face.
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Except the dude who punched the woman in the face.

And his entire group with him who are self confessed neo-nazi's

Bingo.

pinky0926 posted...

Oops, missed this part. Thing is, wasn't your point to stop these things in their infancy? Toxic islamic groups have proven themselves effective at worming their way into government in a similar way to fascism. Considering that Muslim Attributional Tribunals (read: sharia civil law courts) have successfully made their way into my country (UK), I can't honestly agree with you that it's not a serious threat that's not making any headway. The argument typically given that it's of the choice of a Muslim family if they want to use that system or not, but isn't that exactly how patriarchal tyranny flourishes anyway? I doubt the women are always given the freedom of choice there.

Oh yeah, I forgot that you were in the UK (I don't know how. It's pretty obvious). I'd agree for it being a serious threat over there. I was talking about America. Once you start having a system of justice based on a corrupt, and immoral religious ideology, it's time to drop the gloves. Stop that shit before it spreads.
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nableet posted...

You can argue that if true fascists got in to power it would be worse. However that really isn't on the cards here.

If you said that before last election, I would've believed you. But we have alt-right leadership in the white house (hopefully not for long) now, and things have changed.
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Lol apparently there is porn of this girl out there.

Amazing how fast people find this shit.
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All this circlejerking over a legit Nazi is pretty sad even for CE

UnfairRepresent posted...

People respond to reason and conversation and learning.


When greeted with insults, violence and down talking, they just redouble in their beliefs. Always

Ah yes I remember when my grandfather flew over to Europe and had a nice chat with the Nazis, then they changed their beliefs and let the Jews go. He didn't kill them and liberate concentration camps where they kept millions upon millions of undesirables.
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Equality
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Ammonitida posted...

_Near_ posted...

nableet posted...

Wasn't this March about "free speech"? Doesn't that suggest that they aren't fascists looking to create a totalitarian state?

If violence, denying people their voice/dissenting opinion and protesting against democracy are staples of fascism, then there seems to be a fair bit of that from both sides, tbh.

Well, "free speech" is the banner that fascists use to spread their ideology. Both sides are not equivalent - stop thinking that they are. We have two groups of people here:

1. Neo Nazis - literally Hitler. White people > all other people. "I will take away your rights because you are an inferior race and I will do this by controlling the government."

2. Antifas - literally against Hitler. "No, Nazis are fucking terrible. Stop talking or I will punch you in the fucking face."

And you think it's equal on both sides?

Stop with your bullshit. Antifa is going after everyone on the right. They attacked a racially mixed gathering at Berkeley. They're worthless thugs now.

It seems really important to you that the alt-left looks worse than the alt-right

I can only imagine why.
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How was she squaring up to the guy? She was quite clearly trying to break his charge as soon as she turned to face him.
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LethalAffinity posted...

Lol apparently there is porn of this girl out there.

Amazing how fast people find this shit.

Yeah. She apparently did hairy porn of course
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LethalAffinity posted...

Lol apparently there is porn of this girl out there.

Amazing how fast people find this shit.

Name?
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There is no excuse for attacking a non-violent person for their views, period.

However, that isn't what happened here. The Antifa group came with the intention of starting shit and physically attacking this alt-right group. Once both groups willingly started engaging in a brawl, everyone lost claim to victim status.
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Identity Evropa (IE) is a white nationalist and fascist formation headed by Nathan Damigo, a veteran and former leader of the National Youth Front (NYF), which was the youth wing of the Neo-Nazi American Freedom Party
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(second planet in the solar system) Rosales
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You can say pornstar names.

But isn't it interesting how quick the alt-right are to doxx someone and try to slander their name whilst supporting an actual Nazi?
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The Admiral posted...

alt-right group

*Neo-nazi group

FTFY

GOATTHlEF posted...

Oh yeah. Tagged at least a dozen people ITT

(also screencapped Addy's post. No more waiting three months and denying you ever said something bunnelby!)

"I'm going to screen cap a reasonable and non-inflammatory post of his! That will show the world!"

Have at it, shitty gimmick account.
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_Near_ posted...

Well, "free speech" is the banner that fascists use to spread their ideology. Both sides are not equivalent - stop thinking that they are.

Simple question: does Antifa support free speech or seek to limit and possibly prohibit it? If the former, then I probably don't have a problem with them, and I'd be open to listening to what they have to say. If the latter, then they can eat shit and be thrown in the gutter. We can do the same to these neo-Nazis if they burn books and prevent people from speaking publicly.
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

The Admiral posted...

alt-right group

*Neo-nazi group

FTFY

Neo-Nazi is a subset of alt-right tho
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Deadpool_18 posted...

LethalAffinity posted...

Lol apparently there is porn of this girl out there.

Amazing how fast people find this shit.

Name?

shes got the dreadlocks and armpit hair too lol
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